xkcd

by **Derek** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:56 am UTC

That would be yod dropping (/tju:/ -> /tu:/) versus yod coalescence (/tju:/ -> /tʃu:/).

by **yurell** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:59 am UTC

I trust your assessment of this situation! ^_^
It's just interesting hearing Americans talk vs British vs other Aussies.

by **Lazar** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:47 am UTC

Derek wrote:That would be yod dropping (/tju:/ -> /tu:/) versus yod coalescence (/tju:/ -> /tʃu:/).

Yep. RP uses a conservative [tj] in "tune" and and [sj] in "assume", while Australian English and Estuary English coalesce them to [tʃ] and [ʃ], and American English simplifies them to [t] and [s].

by **Fire Brns** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:25 pm UTC

Derek wrote:
Fire Brns wrote:For the oo unstead of u, think about it, the y is only there because of illiterate old timey people: "thee oonited" sounds to a passerby as "the younited".

Not sure if serious, but actually the y is there because of the great vowel shift that turned /u:/ ("oo") into /ju:/ ("you").

Whimsical supposition. I just dislike that there are no practical rules to distinguish between when to say "ju" and "u".

by **f1g2h311** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:30 pm UTC

Sometimes I will still pronounce 'turkey' as 'churkey' since that is how I said it as a child. (Short tongue and had a lisp)

There is also a korean word I will slightly misprounce due to mimicing how it sounds with certain accents. 'bian' instead of 'mian'.

by **farnsworth** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:38 am UTC

One of my friends pronounces the Hungary as "hung Gary." This is to ward off any "hungry Hungarian" jokes. (If anybody makes this sort of joke, she gets REALLY pissed off.)

FYI: She's Hungarian.

by **orangustang** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:09 am UTC

Sometimes I say 'nececelery' instead of 'necessarily' because I think the people I'm talking to need more vegetables.

by **distractedSofty** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:51 am UTC

Let's see if I can get all of these right:

I like the title of this thread, because one of the words I choose to mispronounce since coming to the US is "pronounce". (Also, "advertise")

Because US speakers generally pronounce "advertisement" as [ædvətaɪzmənt], I frequently go the other way (ie, differing from my own true accent in a different way) and pronounce "advertise" as [ədvɜːtɪs]. By extension, (it makes sense to me) pronounce as [pɹənʌns] (from pronunciation).

Also, while not strictly pronunciation, I also like to use made up verb tenses: "I flang it across the room".

by **ZLVT** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:56 pm UTC

Lazar wrote:
Derek wrote:That would be yod dropping (/tju:/ -> /tu:/) versus yod coalescence (/tju:/ -> /tʃu:/).

Yep. RP uses a conservative [tj] in "tune" and and [sj] in "assume", while Australian English and Estuary English coalesce them to [tʃ] and [ʃ], and American English simplifies them to [t] and [s].

Good thing you mentioned it. I'll call the rest of oz and tell them to start coalescing their yods. [sj] vs [ʃ] seems to be based on region and upbringing. I know some people who even move some [ʃ] to [s] e.g. the PM who says [nə'gəʊsɪ.æɪt] But for the most part people here use [sj]. [tʃ] is very common though.

while we're here, does anyone differentiate the two main meanings of mandarin in speech?

by **yurell** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:01 am UTC

I tend to use manda-reen for the fruit, and manda-rin for the language (sorry, too early in the morning for IPA

)

by **distractedSofty** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:13 am UTC

ZLVT wrote:while we're here, does anyone differentiate the two main meanings of mandarin in speech?

I assume you're talking about [ˈmæn.də.rɪn] for the language, and [mænˈdə.rɪːn] for the fruit.

In my experience: almost universal in Australia, not at all in the US. Also, unadorned "mandarin" is not usually used for the fruit in the US, the term "mandarin orange" is far more common.

by **Derek** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:08 am UTC

ZLVT wrote:Good thing you mentioned it. I'll call the rest of oz and tell them to start coalescing their yods. [sj] vs [ʃ] seems to be based on region and upbringing. I know some people who even move some [ʃ] to [s] e.g. the PM who says [nə'gəʊsɪ.æɪt] But for the most part people here use [sj]. [tʃ] is very common though.

while we're here, does anyone differentiate the two main meanings of mandarin in speech?

FTR, "negotiate" is not an example of yod-dropping/coalescing. I don't think it ever had a yod. (Although the confusion is understandable, [i] is very similar to [j].)

I assume you're talking about [ˈmæn.də.rɪn] for the language, and [mænˈdə.rɪːn] for the fruit.

Did you just put stress on a syllable with a schwa? Also, by [ɪː] do you mean /i:/, /ɪ/, or a third phonemically distinct sound?

by **Scryer** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:27 am UTC

For kilometer I say KILL-o-meter (and occasionally KEY-lo-meter) instead of the usual American kill-AHM-eter. I've never understood why the latter became standard.

My wife thinks it's pretentious. I suppose she has a point.

by **distractedSofty** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:53 am UTC

Derek wrote:
I assume you're talking about [ˈmæn.də.rɪn] for the language, and [mænˈdə.rɪːn] for the fruit.

Did you just put stress on a syllable with a schwa? Also, by [ɪː] do you mean /i:/, /ɪ/, or a third phonemically distinct sound?

Sure, if you like: It's mostly unstressed in english, but there are a few exceptions in various accents. I guess I might mean a in the stressed version, or in many cases it might be [mæn.dəˈriːn].

But good catch on the more important vowel, I did copy the second pronunciation from the first since it's mostly the same. I meant iː.

by **shieldforyoureyes** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:21 am UTC

I realize the Vietnamese soup "pho" is pronounced "fuh", but I can't say it that way. I just can't bring myself to say "Let's go get some fuh." It doesn't sound like a noun.

by **Fire Brns** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:58 pm UTC

Scryer wrote:For kilometer I say KILL-o-meter (and occasionally KEY-lo-meter) instead of the usual American kill-AHM-eter. I've never understood why the latter became standard.

My wife thinks it's pretentious. I suppose she has a point.

I call it a key-lo-yard.

by **RebeccaRGB** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:42 am UTC

shieldforyoureyes wrote:I realize the Vietnamese soup "pho" is pronounced "fuh", but I can't say it that way. I just can't bring myself to say "Let's go get some fuh." It doesn't sound like a noun.

For me, it's more like, "o" does not make a "u" sound wtf!?

I know his name is pronounced "Erdish," but I can't say it that way. I have to say "Erdos" because "o" does not make an "i" sound wtf!?

by **jaap** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:49 am UTC

RebeccaRGB wrote:I know his name is pronounced "Erdish," but I can't say it that way. I have to say "Erdos" because "o" does not make an "i" sound wtf!?

It's not an o but an ő.

by **skullturf** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:06 pm UTC

jaap wrote:
RebeccaRGB wrote:I know his name is pronounced "Erdish," but I can't say it that way. I have to say "Erdos" because "o" does not make an "i" sound wtf!?

It's not an o but an ő.

And it's not pronounced like a short i. I suspect people only write "erdish" or "air-dish" because "dish" happens to be a common English word. I don't speak Hungarian, but apparently the vowel in question is somewhat similar to the "nurse" vowel in non-rhotic dialects of English, or an umlauted O in German. In an unaccented syllable, a schwa is probably close enough.

by **RebeccaRGB** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:13 pm UTC

jaap wrote:
RebeccaRGB wrote:I know his name is pronounced "Erdish," but I can't say it that way. I have to say "Erdos" because "o" does not make an "i" sound wtf!?

It's not an o but an ő.

I know that, but I tend to want to pronounce it as an o because ő is foreign to me, and kinda looks like an o.

by **lucrezaborgia** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:00 pm UTC

Herbal. I like to say the "h".

by **yurell** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:02 pm UTC

lucrezaborgia wrote:Herbal. I like to say the "h".

You have no idea how confused I was when I was watching Stargate Atlantis and heard them talking about 'looking for an 'erb''. I thought I had missed an episode ... I've never heard it pronounced 'erb' in Australia.

by **MattSoave** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:08 am UTC

How about Porche without the "uh" at the end? /pɔɹʃ/ instead of /pɔɹʃə/ I do this and I'm sure many others do. I just feel weird saying the "uh."

by **Felstaff** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:28 am UTC

I've always pronounced it Pawsh. Correct pronunciation be damn'd! (also 'nyke' instead of 'nye-kee')

by **AvatarIII** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:10 am UTC

yurell wrote:
lucrezaborgia wrote:Herbal. I like to say the "h".

You have no idea how confused I was when I was watching Stargate Atlantis and heard them talking about 'looking for an 'erb''. I thought I had missed an episode ... I've never heard it pronounced 'erb' in Australia.

I think the "erb" pronounciation is just an American thing, we pronounce the h in the UK.

just wondering, after watching a movie last night, how do people pronounce niche?

I pronounce it neesh, but in the movie it was pronounced nitch. I pointed this out to someone and they told me that nitch is the American pronounciation, which was news to me.

by **yurell** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:12 am UTC

Only ever heard it as 'neesh' in Australia (or at least, everywhere I've been along the east coast).

by **fearless** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:35 am UTC

When I get an sms, I go "Oooh, a massage" (instead of message). Weird, I know.

by **gmalivuk** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:36 pm UTC

RebeccaRGB wrote:For me, it's more like, "o" does not make a "u" sound wtf!?

Except in "love" and "shove" and "done"...

"o" does not make an "i" sound wtf!?

Except in "women".

by **Derek** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:37 pm UTC

AvatarIII wrote:just wondering, after watching a movie last night, how do people pronounce niche?

I pronounce it neesh, but in the movie it was pronounced nitch. I pointed this out to someone and they told me that nitch is the American pronounciation, which was news to me.

/nɪʧ/ or sometimes /nɪʃ/ for me.

Except in "women".

I think I've mentioned before that I intentionally pronounce this one /wʊmɨn/.

by **skullturf** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:41 pm UTC

I was born and raised in Canada, and I grew up pronouncing "niche" and "clique" with the vowel from "meet", not the vowel from "mitt".

My subjective impression is that rhyming "niche" with "witch", and rhyming "clique" with "brick", may be more common in the US than in Canada, but I don't have data to back that up right now.

Somebody above mentioned "Porsche". (Checks thread) I am reminded of the word "forte", meaning something like "strong point", as in "word games were never my forte".

I'm pretty sure I pronounce it with two syllables, "for-tay". I do this despite knowing that it actually comes from French, not Italian, so it would in fact be truer to the etymological history to say "fort".

But I choose to say "for-tay", because I'd rather have a small number of people think "He doesn't know it comes from French" than have a larger number of people think "WTF?"

by **Fire Brns** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:22 pm UTC

AvatarIII wrote:
yurell wrote:
lucrezaborgia wrote:Herbal. I like to say the "h".

You have no idea how confused I was when I was watching Stargate Atlantis and heard them talking about 'looking for an 'erb''. I thought I had missed an episode ... I've never heard it pronounced 'erb' in Australia.

I think the "erb" pronounciation is just an American thing, we pronounce the h in the UK.

just wondering, after watching a movie last night, how do people pronounce niche?

I pronounce it neesh, but in the movie it was pronounced nitch. I pointed this out to someone and they told me that nitch is the American pronounciation, which was news to me.

In Florida I hear herb with an H and niche as "neesh" but then again there is as many as 20 dialects along the eastern seaboard.

Is trough pronounced "troff" or "trow"? I vote the latter.

by **Lily1020** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:07 am UTC

Lisp is hard to pronounce, especially if you have one.

by **Fire Brns** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:41 am UTC

Lily1020 wrote:Lisp is hard to pronounce, especially if you have one.

Because anyone can fake a lisp but when you test them with a "what do you call that again?" people who are faking tend to say lisp correctly.

by **Sean Quixote** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:41 am UTC

I like to pronounce "finite" consistently with "infinite". The coining of the term "finity", which I am fairly certain isn't a word even though, surely, you understand it intuitively, seems like a logical next step.

by **Eugo** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:11 pm UTC

I keep pronouncing finale the Italian way, not fennelie. Just can't get myself to pronounce it the American way, except to point out how wrong it sounds to me.

by **Kick** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:22 pm UTC

MattSoave wrote:How about Porche without the "uh" at the end? /pɔɹʃ/ instead of /pɔɹʃə/ I do this and I'm sure many others do. I just feel weird saying the "uh."

Yeah, I do that as well. I also tend to say coup (like a chicken coop) rather than coupe (a two-door car).

by **Fire Brns** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:05 am UTC

Kick wrote:
MattSoave wrote:How about Porche without the "uh" at the end? /pɔɹʃ/ instead of /pɔɹʃə/ I do this and I'm sure many others do. I just feel weird saying the "uh."
Yeah, I do that as well. I also tend to say coup (like a chicken coop) rather than coupe (a two-door car).

Rather than the dinosaur on Mario? Koopa.

I found myself using vowel shifts earlier where the two letters are supposed to make one sound but you pronounce both letters. (ex: so-und)

by **RebeccaRGB** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:49 am UTC

Eugo wrote:I keep pronouncing finale the Italian way, not fennelie. Just can't get myself to pronounce it the American way, except to point out how wrong it sounds to me.

I've never heard it pronounced 'fennelie'. I always pronounce it fih-NAA-lee [fɪnæli].

by **yurell** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:54 am UTC

Interesting, I've always heard it pronounced [fɪnɑːli]

by **Eugo** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:59 am UTC

RebeccaRGB wrote:
Eugo wrote:I keep pronouncing finale the Italian way, not fennelie. Just can't get myself to pronounce it the American way, except to point out how wrong it sounds to me.

I've never heard it pronounced 'fennelie'. I always pronounce it fih-NAA-lee [fɪnæli].

It was always the announcements for the "season fennelie" on several TV channels in the US, many years ago, before we developed a Pavlovian reflex to mute the TV as soon as commercials start. Then we gave up on TV altogether. Maybe they pronounce it differently now, I wouldn't know.

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