xkcd

by **Whelan** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:57 am UTC

I wish my mum would bloody well remember that I'm bi.

"Me: *awws at a tiger cub*
Mum: So have you decided what your sexuality is yet?
Me: Yes.
Mum: Are you going to tell me?
Me: I have, twice.
Mum: And?"

by **Shivahn** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:05 am UTC

Hey Mica! I'm glad to be of help, even accidentally

Welcome!

Whelan wrote:I wish my mum would bloody well remember that I'm bi.

"Me: *awws at a tiger cub*
Mum: So have you decided what your sexuality is yet?
Me: Yes.
Mum: Are you going to tell me?
Me: I have, twice.
Mum: And?"

Eugh, I'm sorry. That must be so frustrating =/

by **lucrezaborgia** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:16 am UTC

Whelan wrote:Mum: So have you decided what your sexuality is yet?

What would happen if you started making stuff up in response?

by **Whelan** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:17 am UTC

She went on to ask if I'd done anything about it, or if I'm just bi-curious, and talked about when she was younger how people said it to be trendy, implying I was too. I suppose at least this means she didn't twig me and my ex some months ago.

by **sambot5** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:20 am UTC

Hello to the new people! (I still consider myself to be new to the forum, having only 10 posts)

by **ChimeraMica** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:48 am UTC

I thought natashatasha actually stated a lot of issues that I and many trans people have to deal with. The problem I'm having is that many of the solutions presented don't apply to me. Like, clothes shopping is difficult for me, but the solution put forth by Virtual_Aardvark, although it is much appreciated, doesn't work well for me, since I'm moving out of state very soon, (I know I've said I'm there, but it's a lie of convenience really. Although on a side note, I get there the same day the 1000th xkcd comes out.) and I don't really have any friends to shop with besides my boyfriend Nexan.

Another problem is insurance. I'm from the U.S. and our healthcare is horrible. After I first came out as trans, I very quickly admitted myself to a mental hospital (There was more than that having to do with it. It was a long time coming, and I think in part it happened because I had the freedom to, but I'm not sure what would have happened to me if I didn't admit myself.) and I owe a lot of money to various services that I don't have the money to pay, and was not informed during my stays (two two-week admittances. Also, I've been pretty much disowned by my father due to my hospitalisation and self-harm, and had to deal with some difficult things with my mother just to have a place to stay and recover a bit.) that I had these bills that were piling up. Now a year has passed since I finally accepted what I am, and I've gotten nowhere on my quest to get hormones. From what I've been able to gather, it revolves largely around local transgender resources, and not just a series of tests and speaking with a therapist. I think where I'm moving will have more of these resources, but I still don't really know where to start.

I'm not really sure what I'm asking for. It's all just overwhelming and I wish I could get it sorted out. It feels like things are never going to happen sometimes. This can all get so complicated, so maybe I want a graph or grey tome explaining all of it in explicit detail, or maybe I just want some support. Hell, just getting this out and venting a bit has helped a lot, which may be evident by the amount of drama present as this rant has progressed. XD It's been very difficult to write. Thank you in advance.

Also, I know this may not be grammatically correct, or paragraphs well placed, but I hope you can forgive me for that, as well as the lack of brevity. I didn't have the force of will to proofread it.

by **animeHrmIne** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:08 am UTC

Whelan wrote:I wish my mum would bloody well remember that I'm bi.

"Me: *awws at a tiger cub*
Mum: So have you decided what your sexuality is yet?
Me: Yes.
Mum: Are you going to tell me?
Me: I have, twice.
Mum: And?"

All. The. Gorram. Time. I have to come out to my mother about three times a year. Of course, I made it a bit complicated by coming out as bi before I came out as pan, but she keeps thinking I'm a lesbian. Even when we're talking about the guys I like.

Welcome to all of the new people! *Hugs* for anyone who needs them.

by **ChimeraMica** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:55 am UTC

Honestly, just to prevent conflict, we don't really talk about my sexuality. There's kind of an understanding that we're both very different, but I think some day that may come back to bite me. In particular, even though it's not really her business and I won't share if I don't have to, I don't plan on coming out as poly to my mother for a good deal of time. I suppose it's good we no longer live together.

by **lucrezaborgia** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:32 pm UTC

ChimeraMica wrote:I owe a lot of money to various services that I don't have the money to pay, and was not informed during my stays that I had these bills that were piling up.

They tend not to tell you anything about finances when in the psych ward (been there, done that!) but if you had no insurance you should have been seen be the hospital's patient advocate to discuss charity options. That never happened? It might not be too late to work something out with the institution. I got a $100k bill discharged through charity.

by **Monika** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:43 pm UTC

Whelan wrote:I wish my mum would bloody well remember that I'm bi.

"Me: *awws at a tiger cub*
Mum: So have you decided what your sexuality is yet?
Me: Yes.
Mum: Are you going to tell me?
Me: I have, twice.
Mum: And?"

/me suggests to buy/make a poster with "BISEXUALITY" in large letters and hang it on the wall so that the mother will not forget again.

Remember that bisexuality does not exist

.

Whelan wrote:She went on to ask if I'd done anything about it, or if I'm just bi-curious, and talked about when she was younger how people said it to be trendy, implying I was too. I suppose at least this means she didn't twig me and my ex some months ago.

Surely just because some gay people identify as bi first and/or some straight people identify as bi temporarily / experiment this must mean nobody can ever truely be bi. Logic, there is none. (And if you happened to be in one of those two groups and don't know yet, frequent asking about your sexual orientation must help you to speed up the process of making up your mind ... which is totally necessary, because ... I cannot even make up a stupid enough reason.)
What does "twig" mean in this sentence? Nothing I find in the dictionary or urban dictionary works.

by **Monika** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:12 pm UTC

ChimeraMica wrote:Another problem is insurance. ... I owe a lot of money to various services that I don't have the money to pay

An American friend of mine who cannot get insurance because of his diabetes had a huge bill after a hospital stay. This was eventually paid by Medicaid. Maybe you can apply for this?

Now a year has passed since I finally accepted what I am, and I've gotten nowhere on my quest to get hormones. From what I've been able to gather, it revolves largely around local transgender resources, and not just a series of tests and speaking with a therapist. I think where I'm moving will have more of these resources, but I still don't really know where to start.

Does your new state have an insurance program for those who cannot afford insurance?
Have you found recommendations by other trans people in the area for therapists and endos?
I think this is where to start.

It's all just overwhelming

It surely sounds overwhelming *hugs*.

I wish I could get it sorted out.

And you will get it sorted out. One step after another.
There are lots of trans people in this thread (and in the #xkcd-q IRC channel) to help you out with their experiences when you run into obstacles.

The US sucks in terms of insurance for those with low income (though it's getting better), but it seems to be one of the most advanced countries in terms of guidelines for the treatment of trans people, following the changes last year. (No idea if maybe Thailand and others are better.) So your chances are pretty good that your experience with your psychologist/psychiatrist will not be absolutely horrible.
If you decide to take a different route ... you can even find recommendations for where to buy hormons further up in this thread. Be aware of the health risks, though.

Also, I know this may not be grammatically correct, or paragraphs well placed

Do not be concerned about this. Proof-reading is overrated when talking about feelings.

by **Whelan** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:42 pm UTC

Spoiler:

Twig as in realise, or notice. It's a britishism.

by **ChimeraMica** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:51 am UTC

Thank you Monika, and lucrezaborgia for replying. I've actually had a great therapist, and even if the US is supposed to be fairly progressive, there's no way for me to get help here in Nevada( Only here a couple more days.) I talked to her about it, and it seems very bureaucratic.

Also, I do have insurance, but it didn't pay everything, and I"m paying ten bucks a month to avoid collections until I can give a lump sum, because if I pay more than that I could be locked in that payment. Oh, and medicaid isn't great. A lot of places don't accept it because it's so strict, and it doesn't pay well. With the amount of debt I have, and the likeliness that who I owe will even accept it, I think I'd be better off just paying it.

I know no one where I'm moving, or here either, much less trans people, of any faction, so getting advice is rather difficult. It's a big reason why I joined these forums. With all the research I've done here, only to be told that there aren't any local resources to help, I've lost confidence that there things will work out. I had thought that even without a trans support system or clinic, there would be some way to climb the ladder of psychological institutions to get treatment, but my therapist, a very smart woman, informs me otherwise.

As for getting hormones other ways, I'm hoping I don't have to do that, but it is at times unbearable, and I'd like to be prepared if I have to do that. Can you give me an idea of what page that's on? I did a search and it seems a bit too common to easily lock in on, and there's 140 pages, so yeah.

by **PM 2Ring** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:46 am UTC

Happy New Year, everybody, especially the newcomers!

My sister took me to a wonderful fancy dress New Year's Eve party where there were hundreds of people, most of whom I'd never met before. Most of the people there were dressed up in one way or another, but I was one of the few cross-dressed male-bodied persons there (AFAICT

). Although I often go out for a walk down the street when I get dressed up, this was definitely the largest gathering I've ever attended en femme. It was a bit nerve-wracking at first, but I soon settled down and had a great time. I got lots of compliments and lots of nice hugs.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi natashatasha, I just read your "rambling" post on the previous page. I won't respond to all of it: I think Monika & the others have covered it well. I'm glad to see that you've decided to give my method of dry shaving with talcum powder a try. Apart from its other benefits, it really reduces the chance of shaving cuts, ingrown hairs and shaving rash. I've only nicked myself once or twice using this method, and I've been using it for over twenty years, but if I wet shave my legs & arms I almost always nick myself. Wet shaving can give a slightly smoother result than dry shaving, but I've decided that the tiny difference isn't really worth it.

Please don't stress yourself out over buying such innocuous items as baby powder or razors! Men use those things, too, you know.

And it's not unusual for men to buy items like pantyhose or nail polish remover from the supermarket for their SO. I find it helps when buying feminine stuff at a supermarket to go to a checkout with a female operator, but YMMV.

Plenty of men like to buy their SO bras and other lingerie items from specialist lingerie shops, and the staff in most such stores will be happy to assist you. They are used to male customers being a bit nervous, whether they're buying stuff for their SO or themself (and I suspect they have fun trying to guess if the items are for an SO or for you

).

Shopping with a girl friend is great fun. I'm having a holiday at my sister's place, and we went out shopping for clothes and makeup a couple of times last week & plan to go again in a day or two. I found it far less stressful than trying to shop for feminine things by myself.

Online shopping is a great suggestion. Also, you should be aware that many places now have a general policy to be nice to trans customers, and some companies have been trans-friendly for ages, eg Payless Shoes and MAC cosmetics go out of their way to make trans people feel comfortable.

Learning to wear makeup isn't easy. It's really helpful if you can find someone who knows what they're doing to make up your face, so you can get an idea of what works and what to do. Plenty of women who wear makeup think it's great fun to do makeup on male-bodied people, and almost any professional beauty therapist would be happy to do it, too, although that might be outside your budget, especially if you want a private consultation. OTOH, not all makeup experts, whether professional or amateur, are experts in doing trans makeup - there's a bit of an art in learning how to deal effectively with beard shadow. FWIW, I tend to use a combination of cheap orange lipstick & pale green concealer under foundation to hide my beard shadow. It's not perfect, but it works pretty well.

by **Monika** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:40 pm UTC

ChimeraMica wrote:With the amount of debt I have, and the likeliness that who I owe will even accept it, I think I'd be better off just paying it.

I think it's still worth a try. What could you lose?

I had thought that even without a trans support system or clinic, there would be some way to climb the ladder of psychological institutions to get treatment, but my therapist, a very smart woman, informs me otherwise.

I think your therapist is wrong. A lot of trans people managed to get the proper letter from the therapist with which they could get the hormons as well as SRS even where there is no good trans clinic or similar in the area. It's tough, it's not fun, but it's possible. Having a good therapist who actually supports you would of course be a million times better than having one to whom you may have to lie to get hormons (about how long you felt this way or how often you present as female) but transitioning is still not unachievable. Don't give up hope.

As for getting hormones other ways, I'm hoping I don't have to do that, but it is at times unbearable, and I'd like to be prepared if I have to do that. Can you give me an idea of what page that's on? I did a search and it seems a bit too common to easily lock in on, and there's 140 pages, so yeah.

Page 80. It's inside a spoiler.

by **Brace** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:47 pm UTC

Good things come in threes. I got my name change finalized today, I get to interview for a new place to live on Saturday with a self-described masculine gay couple, and I'm probably selling my motorcycle today. It'll be sad to let go, but I need to move on, and the money is definitely a helpful thing. Makes more sense than trading it in for the same amount minus towing fees.

Bike sold. $340, as opposed to $500. Since I figure I would have had to pay $80 for towing twice if I wanted to try trade-in, I figure that makes this break-even. So, good enough

by **Shivahn** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:15 am UTC

I'm sure these have been asked before, but if so, I had trouble finding them. So I will ask again!

Spoiler:

As a bonus, have some unrelated rants!

Spoiler:

by **Lucrece** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:44 am UTC

There is no way around concealing facial hair on fair skin, especially if it's thick/black. Trust me, I'm one to constantly end up all bloodied because I will glide through my face however many times it takes to remove those pesky spots and have a smooth feel, but it never quite goes away and it comes back very quickly. Only make-up will conceal it to some degree.

by **dragon** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:33 am UTC

Beard waxing is apparently a thing. A recipe for disaster? I expect it would be pretty damn painful, but waxing or plucking would successfully eliminate the shadow from hair seen beneath the skin, and is non-permanent.

by **Aiea** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:01 pm UTC

I'm a woman, but I have very thick and dark facial hair which I pluck on a regular basis. (I have PCOS which causes it to grow thicker and darker than it should, and in places where it shouldn't be growing, argh.) There are portions of my face that it still hurts when I pluck, but the rest I'm used to it and it doesn't hurt at all. My problems I have with plucking is sometimes a piece of the hair gets left below the surface so I still have a dark dot of what looks to be hair under the skin. Sometimes squeezing it out works, but when there are a bunch it still leaves a bit of a shadow. Also when it reaches the growing back out stage, I find I have to exfoliate in order to reduce the number of ingrowns or other issues. Unfortunetly my hair also grows back pretty quick (I'd imagine at about the same rate as a guys) so I'm plucking on a fairly regular basis. But it does work and makes me feel better about how my face looks.

by **podbaydoor** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:41 pm UTC

Try powder foundation or concealer. It's pretty unobtrusive and it doesn't so much conceal as...even things out. I like it better than cream concealers because it's so lightweight and nobody knows you're wearing it but you.

by **Shivahn** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:01 pm UTC

Thanks everyone! Makeup sounds like the way to go. I will look into that powder stuff, pod.

I'd prefer not to wax or pluck because I'm pretty sure half my face would come off. I have no problem on my eyebrows, or really anywhere else, but beard hair is (for me) much tougher and trying even a single hair is excruciating.

by **podbaydoor** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:24 pm UTC

I don't even have the guts to pluck my eyebrows. *shiver* Can't imagine what the much tougher beard hairs must be like.

The nice thing about powder is that it doesn't "clump" like cream or liquid. I like it a lot. It doesn't totally conceal my acne scars, but it does even the color out a bit and basically takes attention away from them.

by **AnnaArmour** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:25 pm UTC

Shivahn wrote:
Spoiler:
I work six days a week, afternoons weekdays and morning Saturdays, which means that I rarely have time to be dressed nicely, and if I do I rarely can go out like that. If I'm getting home at 6 or 7, it seems like a waste to put on nice clothes when I'll be in bed soon enough anyway, and it seems like a waste to dress in the morning when I'm heading into work in a few hours. I hate my work clothes, and hate that the best part of the day I'm stuck in them. I really wish I could wear what I want. Bleh.

Why can't you wear what you want at work? If you have a uniform, there must be some way to femme it up. At my job, I wear a pink triangle necklace with my uniform. (Secretly, I hope a girl will see it someday and ask me out and we'll live happily ever after.)
...But I'm guessing it's because you aren't out to your coworkers. In that case, maybe you could gradually make your outfits a little more feminine/androgynous. If it makes you feel better, it's worth a few weird looks, right?

by **sambot5** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:48 pm UTC

AnnaArmour wrote:At my job, I wear a pink triangle necklace with my uniform. (Secretly, I hope a girl will see it someday and ask me out and we'll live happily ever after.)

D'awww....

This made me smile

by **Shivahn** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:56 pm UTC

podbaydoor wrote:I don't even have the guts to pluck my eyebrows. *shiver* Can't imagine what the much tougher beard hairs must be like.

The nice thing about powder is that it doesn't "clump" like cream or liquid. I like it a lot. It doesn't totally conceal my acne scars, but it does even the color out a bit and basically takes attention away from them.

I've found the whole plucking/waxing-related-pain on eyebrows to be pretty overrated, for what it's worth. I was honestly surprised at how little it hurt. But I might just have relatively insensitive eyebrow nerves.

I'm glad to hear that about powder. I fully intend to check it out this weekend. Thanks a lot!

AnnaArmour wrote:
Shivahn wrote:
Spoiler:
I work six days a week, afternoons weekdays and morning Saturdays, which means that I rarely have time to be dressed nicely, and if I do I rarely can go out like that. If I'm getting home at 6 or 7, it seems like a waste to put on nice clothes when I'll be in bed soon enough anyway, and it seems like a waste to dress in the morning when I'm heading into work in a few hours. I hate my work clothes, and hate that the best part of the day I'm stuck in them. I really wish I could wear what I want. Bleh.

Why can't you wear what you want at work? If you have a uniform, there must be some way to femme it up. At my job, I wear a pink triangle necklace with my uniform. (Secretly, I hope a girl will see it someday and ask me out and we'll live happily ever after.)
...But I'm guessing it's because you aren't out to your coworkers. In that case, maybe you could gradually make your outfits a little more feminine/androgynous. If it makes you feel better, it's worth a few weird looks, right?

I wear dress slacks and a men's button down shirt. The main problem is that I don't own much between that and nice-looking-but-obviously-casual. I should probably go shopping though... see if I can't find something that will work. For reference, I work at a doctor's office, so I have to be relatively presentable.

That pink triangle necklace thing actually is a great idea though. I made a pendant a while ago... I should start wearing it under everything.

by **natashatasha** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:42 am UTC

Thank you to everyone who responded to my whinging, and sorry for not responding sooner. All your advice has been great help, even though I didn't say anything sooner.

Short update with no complaints this time! I'm back in Canberra (okay, so one complaint), and settled in. Today I steeled myself and went out to buy a disposable razor (a Gillette Mach 3, since someone here said they use it, and their years of marketing have obviously affected me), talc powder and a cleanser. I couldn't get the talc powder to work with the razor, so I gave up on that idea and used water with liquid soap.
I was so afraid I'd slice myself to ribbons, but not a single nick for my first time ever ^_^ And I can't believe how smooth my face is!

So happy hugs to all you supportive forumites! ♥

by **PM 2Ring** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:43 am UTC

natashatasha wrote:Today I steeled myself and went out to buy a disposable razor (a Gillette Mach 3, since someone here said they use it, and their years of marketing have obviously affected me), talc powder and a cleanser. I couldn't get the talc powder to work with the razor, so I gave up on that idea and used water with liquid soap.
I was so afraid I'd slice myself to ribbons, but not a single nick for my first time ever ^_^ And I can't believe how smooth my face is!

So happy hugs to all you supportive forumites! ♥

Excellent, natashatasha!

IME, the dry shaving technique works best with a single blade razor, and while it's great for the limbs, chest & pubic region, it's not much good for shaving the face or neck, where you want an ultra-smooth, very close shave.

For face shaving, I generally use a twin or triple blade razor, and a mixture of soap & sorbolene cream as the lubricant, but hair conditioner is quite good, too. Some people speak highly of shaving oil, but I find that the razor tends to clog up a lot when I've used it.

To get a really smooth shave (e.g., before putting on makeup), first shave "with the grain", i.e., in the direction of hair growth. Then wait at least 20 minutes for your skin and hair follicles to recover and then shave against the grain (and in every other direction

). Ideally, leave a gap of an hour or two between the two shaves to get the best result; of course, that may not always be practical. When doing the first shave, don't be too fussy about getting every beard hair, you can catch any strays on the second pass. The idea is to avoid mangling the beard hairs and to minimize the trauma on your follicles and skin - mangled hairs and damaged follicles can lead to ingrown hairs or make the hairs hard to shave off; razor burn is not a good look and traumatized skin may react badly to makeup. And on that note, always give your skin at least half an hour to recover after shaving, preferably longer, before applying liquid makeup (dry mineral foundation is generally less likely to invoke a reaction, but YMMV).

by **Ravana** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:16 am UTC

natashatasha wrote:lots of things

you sound like I do/did, in almost every aspect. *hugs lots*

by **Ravana** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:25 am UTC

Note: you probably shouldn't be using talc powder for face stuff, as iirc there were studies that showed it was like asbestos when it got in your lungs. I could be totally wrong though. This is its own post because, well, I feel it is important.

by **The Mighty Thesaurus** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:50 pm UTC

Nine minutes? I've seen hadrons that lasted longer

by **Brace** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:42 pm UTC

I'm moving into a nicer place! With other people! And carpet!

by **felltir** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:52 pm UTC

Brace wrote:I'm moving into a nicer place! With other people! And carpet!

Me too!

by **Triss Hawkeye** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:48 pm UTC

I got a binder! I'm wearing it for a few hours at a time at home just to get used to it at the moment. It feels really surreal but awesome. Lucky for me, I'm in a musical in which I'm playing a guy (yeah, I'm not sure how that came about either) so I think I will wear it to a few rehearsals and stuff since I have a convenient excuse to fall back on if I need it.

I'm also thinking about cutting my hair to something a little more androgynous. At the moment it's just about shoulder length, and I'd like to keep a bit of length to it rather than go really short, but I'd also like something that could pass as masculine if I wanted. Any thoughts or suggestions?

by **doogly** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:08 pm UTC

What hair style could possibly be more masculine than long and luxurious?

by **podbaydoor** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:12 pm UTC

Tying your hair back into a tight ponytail can sometimes heighten androgyny. It makes me look like J-pop boy band member, at any rate.

by **felltir** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:15 pm UTC

podbaydoor wrote:Tying your hair back into a tight ponytail can sometimes heighten androgyny. It makes me look like J-pop boy band member, at any rate.

It makes TD look absolutely amazing.

by **TaintedDeity** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:53 pm UTC

I concur. TD is a pretty hoopy frood :wink:

by **Monika** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:05 pm UTC

Triss Hawkeye wrote:I'm also thinking about cutting my hair to something a little more androgynous. At the moment it's just about shoulder length, and I'd like to keep a bit of length to it rather than go really short, but I'd also like something that could pass as masculine if I wanted. Any thoughts or suggestions?

I think your idea is right, cut it short, but don't cut it too short. Really short hair could emphasize feminine facial features and it might just look like a (stereo)typical "lesbian haircut".

by **doogly** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:12 pm UTC

podbaydoor wrote:Tying your hair back into a tight ponytail can sometimes heighten androgyny. It makes me look like J-pop boy band member, at any rate.

And you can go for the high ponytail if you want a sporty look.

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