Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

[Ulc]

. I might add that brewing industrial scale is actually seriously easier than brewing small scale at home!

I'm with you there; having a complete set of equipment, made for the task at hand, that is all designed to work together makes a huge difference. It's hard to go back to a system of kludged together pots and pans. Not to mention, steam heated vessels and glycol cooled fermentation vessels are powerful forced for good.

Not just that (though it plays a huge part), but also the fact that when brewing industrial scale, you likely has a huge shed filled with 50+ different malts, meaning that you can pick and choose based on what you'd like in the beer, rather than what you have available (there's no way most home brewers will ever end up choosing to use three different chocolate malts in the same stout, just because they have a very, very slightly different taste). Same for hops - as it happens we only used one, and only for bitter hops, but the point is that there were shelf upon shelf of hops to choose from - and they never had to worry about "if I buy four different I wont get to use them before they go bad, so I'm limiting myself to two hops".

[folkhero]

Got a 750ml bottle of Piraat for Early Christmas^TM! It's my favorite beer, so I'm trying to decide if I should do what I did with my last bottle and share it with good friends, or be a miser and drink it all myself.

[AngrySquirrel]

Has anyone here tested Brewdog's "There is no Santa"?

I'm wondering if I should get some of those bottles, but I can't quite make up my mind since I'm very picky about my beer and don't want to spend money on something that might be highly disturbing for my senses.

[Dream]

Has anyone here tested Brewdog's "There is no Santa"?

I'm wondering if I should get some of those bottles, but I can't quite make up my mind since I'm very picky about my beer and don't want to spend money on something that might be highly disturbing for my senses.

Just had one last night. It's worth trying a bottle, but it's far from their best. It just tastes like decent quality porter with some spice thrown in, and isn't very inspiring. The Anchor Christmas Ale I had after it was far far better. I'll be buying more of that.

[Whitekiboko]

Not just that (though it plays a huge part), but also the fact that when brewing industrial scale, you likely has a huge shed filled with 50+ different malts, meaning that you can pick and choose based on what you'd like in the beer, rather than what you have available (there's no way most home brewers will ever end up choosing to use three different chocolate malts in the same stout, just because they have a very, very slightly different taste). Same for hops - as it happens we only used one, and only for bitter hops, but the point is that there were shelf upon shelf of hops to choose from - and they never had to worry about "if I buy four different I wont get to use them before they go bad, so I'm limiting myself to two hops".

Clearly we know different kinds of homebrewers, or maybe you're lacking something.

[mercutio_stencil]

You know FiftyFifty Brewing Company's Eclipse Series? The Imperial Stout aged in a bunch of different barrels? I just hosted a tasting party for all of them (Well, except the Elijah Craig 20, that guy bailed at the last minute).

Starting with the un-aged imperial stout, then the Four Roses Bourbon aged, the Rittenhouse Rye Barrel Aged, the Buffalo Trace Bourbon, the Elijah Craig 12 and the Grand Cru Blend.

General consensus, while they were all tasty, none of them were really worth the price they command, let alone the massive buzz generated.

[lucrezaborgia]

The first time I went to the beer aisle up here in Wisconsin I about dropped down to my knees in awe at the selection.

My fiance homebrews and he just finished bottling apple mead. It needs a few months aging in the bottle but it's very promising so far.

[Bakemaster]

Tried a bottle of Weston's Extra Dry cider a week or so ago. Finally, a really truly dry cider, and I was almost wondering if it was too dry—but I plan to have it again. Maybe I'll try the Reserve next time.

Had another bottle of Ridgeway's Criminally Bad Elf. It's just such a good beer to have such gimmicky marketing, I'm really pleased with it. I like American barleywines too but not as much.

I keep seeing a Rye IPA from Sierra Nevada but not sure what I would be expecting from it were I to take it home.

[dubsola]

There's so many really and truly dry ciders in the UK, and it's so hard to find it outside of the UK. I've no idea why. I love Westons for exporting that stuff, but I wish it was easier to find flagons of dry and sour ciders all around the world. Lately I've tried some rum cask and whisky cask cider - pretty tasty. Have you ever tried perry? Right now CAMRA are taking nominations for the UK's best cider and perry pubs. There's one in North London with about 12 ciders and perries. It's heaven.

For a Christmas lunch, I bought a bottle of Very Bad, Seriously Bad and Criminally Bad Elf. By the time I'd tried the first two I was just about speechless and couldn't even try Criminally. They are so, so strong.

[bigglesworth]

Yeah in the UK you can even get supermarket own-brand dry cider.

I just remembered - I'd better drink my bottle of Christmas Ale before 12th night!

[dubsola]

Brew Dog really know how to open a pub.

I'm slightly annoyed in that I used to work around the corner from this place. I have always found Camden a barren wasteland for food and drink, and now that I no longer work there or have any reason to go there Brewdog have opened this pub up. Guess I'll have to venture amongst the tourists again.

[Dream]

That looks like a good pub. We should grab a pint there next time I'm in London.

[Whitekiboko]

For a Christmas lunch, I bought a bottle of Very Bad, Seriously Bad and Criminally Bad Elf. By the time I'd tried the first two I was just about speechless and couldn't even try Criminally. They are so, so strong.

I can only assume you've never had an Imperial stout...

[mosc]

For those who are curious about Westvleteren 12:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westvleteren_Brewery

I wanted to post a recent tasting I did comparing it with Delirium Nocturnum:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_Nocturnum

The tasting was directly comparing these two beers. The Westvleteren is extremely hard to get outside of Belgium, or even within for those not obsessed enough with beer to drive hours for a case. The 12 specifically is often listed as one of the very best beers in the world by most beer snobs. I've had a good many varieties of beer myself, particularly Belgian styles. I also had the luxury of a 6-pack of Westvleteren 12.

So, the short of it is these beers are very similar. So similar, that I could not differentiate the two in a blind taste test. I've had Nocturnum many times and have a pretty distinguishing palate but they were very close. After failing the test, I delved into both trying to find the most nuanced of differences. Keeping in mind these are all very small differences: The nocturnum's initial flavor is sweeter than the Westvleteren 12. The Westvleteren tastes slightly more syrupey than the nocturnum as well. The Nocturnum has a smokeyness to the middle where the Westvleteren is a more unified, consistent flavor. I did slightly prefer the aftertaste of the Westvleteren. It is slightly more refreshing which makes it seem easier to drink but both can be challenging after 10oz or so.

I know most people will never have the luxury of trying the Westvleteren 12 but I wanted to say that from my experience, you aren't missing that much. Get yourself some Delirium Nocturnum and savor it. It's every bit as good. Very slight differences, but actually two of the more similar beers I've ever had. Nocturnum is wonderful, and usually pretty easy to get your hands on.

Enjoy!

[Sgt.Artemis]

I'm somewhat of a novice when it comes to beer, but my favourite beer-prodicing country is the Czech Republic, there's just that extra something about a glass of Staropramen. Danish beer is a close second, not only because it's cheap, but because it actually tastes good, as opposed to most other beers I've tasted so far.

[Ulc]

I know most people will never have the luxury of trying the Westvleteren 12 but I wanted to say that from my experience, you aren't missing that much. Get yourself some Delirium Nocturnum and savor it. It's every bit as good. Very slight differences, but actually two of the more similar beers I've ever had. Nocturnum is wonderful, and usually pretty easy to get your hands on.

Enjoy!

I believe I've said it before, but westvleteren 12 is totally overrated. And my main guess it's due to people equating scarcity with quality, don't get me wrong, it's a high quality well-tasting beer, but it's nowhere near deserving the hype it gets. But then, I (in general) hate all the abbey breweries for being a bunch of arrogant uptight assholes that take themselves far more seriously than they ought to considering the quality of the beer. It's just beer guys. I love it, but don't fucking come here on your high horse.

Sgt.Artemis - Danish beer is indeed rather good, but I recently had a run in with a couple of swedish breweries, and they were really rather good! Excellent microbrews really, surprised me a fair bit!

[Dark567]

Westy 12 is probably the best beer I have ever had, but it's probably still overrated. It isn't head and shoulders above things like Delirium Nocturum, just a tad bit better. For a much higher price.

[mosc]

I don't know how much "better" than anything else it is. I just wanted to point out it's clear and undeniable similarities to a much more commonly available product. I wasn't trying to talk up or badmouth anything. I was just trying to pass along an independent taste test

[bigglesworth]

The thing about Danish beer is that Carlsberg is the best macrobrew in Western Europe.

Fact.

[Dream]

The thing about Danish beer is that Carlsberg is the best macrobrew in Western Europe.

Fact.

Budvar is totally a macro, and it's far better than Carlsberg. So is Guinness. And Deuchars.

Man, I miss Deuchars. Must vist Scotland again sometime.

[dubsola]

Deuchars is a macro?

I was going to mention Budvar but it's not really western Europe, is it? I forgot about Guinness. A good Guinness is a joy.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/obama-and-queen-elizabeth-visits-to-guinness-storehouse-helped-boost-visitor-numbers-by-10pc-2981198.html

[bigglesworth]

I could mention how I prefer Murphy's Stout to Guinness, but I'm on safer grounds limiting my initial statement to Lagers.

[Dream]

Well, Deuchars is on tap in just about every pub in Scotland, and is very popular. It's also available less commonly all over the UK, especially in bottles, and is exported. And Caledonian is a massive brewery. So I just assumed that it is.

I could mention how I prefer Murphy's Stout to Guinness, but I'm on safer grounds limiting my initial statement to Lagers.

Ever had Jupiler? It's what everyone in Belgium drinks instead of Stella, and it's very good.

[Azrael]

I could mention how I prefer Murphy's Stout to Guinness, but I'm on safer grounds limiting my initial statement to Lagers.

The issue I find is that there are actually three Guinness variants available here.

Guinness Draught: Comes in a can or bottle with the "widget" and is absolute crap. Just about everyone with respectable beer palates agrees.
Guinness Extra Stout (Original): What you get at a decent bar in the US, or the 'right' bottles. It's typically considered a solid mid-quality and rates fairly evenly with the Murphy's we get over here.
Guinness Foreign Extra Stout: This is the real stuff, and is widely considered world-class. But ... you can't really count on finding it in the US.

[dubsola]

Guinness Extra Stout (Original): What you get at a decent bar in the US, or the 'right' bottles. It's typically considered a solid mid-quality and rates fairly evenly with the Murphy's we get over here.
Guinness Foreign Extra Stout: This is the real stuff, and is widely considered world-class. But ... you can't really count on finding it in the US.

Quite often in London off-licenses (little delis / bodegas that sell newspapers, crisps and beer) you can find both of these side by side. It's quite strange in that these places tend to sell Stella, Carling, Becks, various cheap and nasty strong ciders, and Guinness. And that's it.

Well, Deuchars is on tap in just about every pub in Scotland, and is very popular. It's also available less commonly all over the UK, especially in bottles, and is exported. And Caledonian is a massive brewery. So I just assumed that it is.

It's widely available in London, that's for sure. And I got some in bottles for my wedding in Australia, so there's that. I guess what I really should be asking is what makes a macro?

Ever had Jupiler? It's what everyone in Belgium drinks instead of Stella, and it's very good.

Jupiler is great! I'd totally forgotten about it, should try it again.

[Dream]

Guinness Foreign Extra Stout: This is the real stuff, and is widely considered world-class. But ... you can't really count on finding it in the US.

Do you mean the Nigerian Brewed high-gravity variant, that comes in a smaller bottle than the usual pint? Because that's a fantastic beer, but it's not "real" Guinness. Very different to the draught cans or the kegs from Dublin. It's marketed as Foreign Extra here in Ireland, but maybe US Foreign Extra is different?

I guess what I really should be asking is what makes a macro?

I'd always just assumed it was brew length, but thinking about that now, that's probably a terrible metric.

[Azrael]

Guinness Foreign Extra Stout: This is the real stuff, and is widely considered world-class. But ... you can't really count on finding it in the US.

Do you mean the Nigerian Brewed high-gravity variant, that comes in a smaller bottle than the usual pint? Because that's a fantastic beer, but it's not "real" Guinness. Very different to the draught cans or the kegs from Dublin. It's marketed as Foreign Extra here in Ireland, but maybe US Foreign Extra is different?

Yeah, that's the one - although it has several geographical variants, and it's not all Nigerian brewed. 'Real' was a poorly chosen adjective. That's the good stuff, compared to the either fair (Extra Stout / Original) or terrible (Draught).

[bigglesworth]

Ever had Jupiler? It's what everyone in Belgium drinks instead of Stella, and it's very good.

Nope, but I will keep an eye out next time I'm in the area.

[mosc]

I could mention how I prefer Murphy's Stout to Guinness, but I'm on safer grounds limiting my initial statement to Lagers.

You tried Beamish?

[bigglesworth]

Nope. Never actually been to Ireland.

And back to Guinness for a moment, do the foreign export type things really count as macrobrews?

[Azrael]

Probably? The unfermented wort is made in Dublin and shipped elsewhere for finishing.

[bigglesworth]

When I hear macrobrews, I think 'available in 15-can or 16-bottle boxes to the consumer'

[Azrael]

I think mostly in overall size of production. 500,000 US gallons is a fairly typical threshold, I think. Guinness on the whole is something like 4500 times that.

[mercutio_stencil]

Probably? The unfermented wort is made in Dublin and shipped elsewhere for finishing.

Are you sure about that one? I can't find reference to that practice myself. That seems rather expensive (wort is heavy) and risky (and very prone to infection.)

EDIT: I found some references to what I think you're talking about; the Foreign Extra Stout is apparently a strong lager beer with a stout syrup added to it. Individual breweries produce their own lager base and give it a shot of the concentrated stout syrup before fermentation. It's not exactly a wort, probably closer to a malt extract than anything else.

[Azrael]

Probably? The unfermented wort [extract] is made in Dublin and shipped elsewhere for finishing.

Are you sure about that one? I can't find reference to that practice myself...

EDIT: I found some references to what I think you're talking about; the Foreign Extra Stout ...

Considering the latter half of the conversation has been referencing the Foreign Extra Stout by name, yes. That is what we were talking about. Although I appear to have left out an 'extract' in there.

[TheAmazingRando]

Looks like Pretty Things has finally managed a decent West Coast distribution, or maybe my local bottle shop is just a lot better than I thought.

So far I've tried Jack D'Or and Our Finest Regards. Not the best beers I've had in either style, but I couldn't really find any fault with either. Maybe it was just my level of intoxication, or the nice hand-drawn artwork on the bottle, but they really seem to put a lot of care into making their beers. It's an ethic that i'd like to see a lot more of on the craft brew scene.

[Felstaff]

Nice. My local supermercado has begun stocking Fraoch heather ale. For £1.75. Boo that they only had one left, which I have just finished in my drawing room with a good book (Knowledge of Angels for those that care).

As I've been paid, I will be back tomorrow to stock up

[Dream]

Fraoch heather ale.

Eww. Everything from William's Bros. is terrible, sorry.

[Felstaff]

No, Fraoch is the only thing they do that's actually quite good. It's smooth, inoffensive, and has a light tang. Very pleasurable!

[TheAmazingRando]

My favorite local beer bar (Churchills Pub in San Marcos, CA) had a rare beer festival today. I waited in line from 10:30am to almost 2pm to get in, but it was worth it. They had a special beer brewed for the occasion by Lost Abbey (which is right down the street) but it was all sold out, unfortunately, as was their Dogfish Head 120 Minute IPA. But I did get to drink Pliny the Younger, The Bruery's Sour in the Rye, Consecration #2, and Three Floyds/Mikkeler's Boo Goo, along with tasting Rodenbach's 2008 Vintage Grand Cru and a few other beers I forget.

Pliny the Younger was fantastic, but not /that/ much better than Elder, or Ballast Point's Sculpin (local brewery, personal favorite). Sour in the Rye was incredibly sour, probably the best sour I've had. Consecration #2 had a nice oakiness to it, but I think I like the regular release (my favorite sour beer) better, the oak kind of spoiled the sourness. Boo Goo was good, but it was listed as a wheat barleywine, and the taste was more an extra-hoppy pale ale, so it wasn't quite what I was expecting.

Overall, though, one of the best afternoons I've ever spent drinking. Perfect Southern California warm winter weather didn't hurt.