Cringe

[UniqueScreenname]

That only makes sense on this timeline, because in the old timeline Nina and Olivia met when she started working for Fringe.

[You, sir, name?]

I saw an observer walk by in the background in the money crowd in the latest episode.

That only makes sense on this timeline, because in the old timeline Nina and Olivia met when she started working for Fringe.

I don't see how this is a contradiction.

[SlyReaper]

I think they put at least one observer in every episode, as an inconspicuous background thingy. If you were so inclined, you could probably go through every episode looking out for them.

[Cathode Ray Sunshine]

About the latest episode :

Spoiler:

Nina and DRJ were talking about some woman being almost ready. Does this mean we'll get a third Olivia? Must be, since Nina was drugging her and most likely experimenting on her. I think 3 versions of a same character is too much.

[UniqueScreenname]

I saw an observer walk by in the background in the money crowd in the latest episode.

That only makes sense on this timeline, because in the old timeline Nina and Olivia met when she started working for Fringe.

I don't see how this is a contradiction.

If they didn't know each other, they can't be the same person. At least Nina should know her.

[You, sir, name?]

I saw an observer walk by in the background in the money crowd in the latest episode.

That only makes sense on this timeline, because in the old timeline Nina and Olivia met when she started working for Fringe.

I don't see how this is a contradiction.

If they didn't know each other, they can't be the same person. At least Nina should know her.

Sure they can. Just means Olivia didn't know Nina, and Nina didn't want to reveal she was Olivia from the future of another timeline.

[Alder]

About the latest episode :

Spoiler:

Nina and DRJ were talking about some woman being almost ready. Does this mean we'll get a third Olivia? Must be, since Nina was drugging her and most likely experimenting on her. I think 3 versions of a same character is too much.

Spoiler:

When you say 3, don't you mean *5*? We've already had original (blue universe) over-there (red universe) New-timeline (orange universe) and New-timeline-over-there (hasn't had a colour yet, I don't think)...

I suspect it may be a clone/shapeshifter 'version' of Olivia that they've been cooking, for some reason...

[KrazyerKate]

Hey, what ever happened to Olivia's sister and niece? I was watching old episodes and realized that I'd completely forgotten that they existed at one point.

[Cathode Ray Sunshine]

Have to say I was very underwhelmed with the latest episode.

[Alder]

Hey, what ever happened to Olivia's sister and niece? I was watching old episodes and realized that I'd completely forgotten that they existed at one point.

Well, since this season (which I'm calling the Orange universe) we're in a different timeline, they could be anywhere. Alive, dead, not speaking to Olivia, living in Venezuela...or they could pop up next week for a nice wee holiday.

[AvatarIII]

I saw an observer walk by in the background in the money crowd in the latest episode.

That only makes sense on this timeline, because in the old timeline Nina and Olivia met when she started working for Fringe.

I don't see how this is a contradiction.

If they didn't know each other, they can't be the same person. At least Nina should know her.

Sure they can. Just means Olivia didn't know Nina, and Nina didn't want to reveal she was Olivia from the future of another timeline.

since there is only one Nina, I would not put it past the producers to do this either, but, if Nina is from the future, that means that William must also be from the future, as a) there is only one William, and b) he basically seemed to have technology from the future at his disposal.
so William could be Peter perhaps?

[UniqueScreenname]

I saw an observer walk by in the background in the money crowd in the latest episode.

That only makes sense on this timeline, because in the old timeline Nina and Olivia met when she started working for Fringe.

I don't see how this is a contradiction.

If they didn't know each other, they can't be the same person. At least Nina should know her.

Sure they can. Just means Olivia didn't know Nina, and Nina didn't want to reveal she was Olivia from the future of another timeline.

since there is only one Nina, I would not put it past the producers to do this either, but, if Nina is from the future, that means that William must also be from the future, as a) there is only one William, and b) he basically seemed to have technology from the future at his disposal.
so William could be Peter perhaps?

While this isn't a disqualifier, I doubt it, because Peter was kinda freaking out when Bell stole Olivia's body. It seemed like he was morally against it. Perhaps "future Peter" wouldn't mind, but I don't know if a person changes that much throughout life.

[SlyReaper]

[Quote Pyramid Of Doom]
While this isn't a disqualifier, I doubt it, because Peter was kinda freaking out when Bell stole Olivia's body. It seemed like he was morally against it. Perhaps "future Peter" wouldn't mind, but I don't know if a person changes that much throughout life.

People do indeed change that much in a lifetime. It would hardly be a stretch considering what this show normally stretches.

And, you know, they'd have to stretch his nose and ears for a start.

[AvatarIII]

They'd have to remove a few vertebrae to make Fauxlivia into Nina.

[SlyReaper]

Okay what the shitting cuntwaffles? Episode 19 spoilers.

Spoiler:

There has been precisely zero foreshadowing of an Observer invasion, no build-up, nothing. Just some text going "oh by the way, these bald guys with trilby hats have migrated here from the future and subjugated us, and for some reason they left all their womenfolk behind in the future".

Also, [morbo voice]ANTIMATTER DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. GOODNIGHT.[/morbo voice]

[Alder]

Yeah, my first reaction to that episode was pretty much, "... ... ... ...?"
After a bit of time passed though

Spoiler:

does this explain why the Observers have been, well, observing? If they're 'future humankind', who've finally succeeded in destroying/ruining the planet, were the scientists sent back in time to find the optimum time to invade and steal the planet from us? That still does leave loads of questions, though like, what happened to all the women, and why is all this interfering not mucking about with their own timeline horribly, and why are they suddenly so very *horrible* after being so very neutral?

[SlyReaper]

Spoiler:

I honestly thought they were just time tourists, only interfering to correct events that disrupted the timelines. Or they were just documenting the weirdness that Fringe investigated. As for the grandfather paradox, I guess the invasion just created a parallel timeline.

Also, I don't buy the explanation that they're refugees from a ruined Earth. When Peter did that mind reading thing with one of them, it looked like they were capable of long distance space flight. Could they really not find a habitable planet out there?

And yeah, suddenly going from being the epitome of neutrality to brutally evil is extremely jarring.

[You, sir, name?]

Okay what the shitting cuntwaffles? Episode 19 spoilers.

Spoiler:

There has been precisely zero foreshadowing of an Observer invasion, no build-up, nothing. Just some text going "oh by the way, these bald guys with trilby hats have migrated here from the future and subjugated us, and for some reason they left all their womenfolk behind in the future".

Spoiler:

Well, they have been taking increasing liberties over the last season or two. But I like the lack of foreshadowing. Makes for very entertaining television. And it's not like they actually took over suddenly. There probably was buildup, except we missed it in the time skip.

I'm not sure we're getting the full picture though. Feels like David Robert Jones' plans are going to be related to what's going on somehow. Not entirely certain on who's team he's on though.

Spoiler:

Also, [morbo voice]ANTIMATTER DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. GOODNIGHT.[/morbo voice]

Spoiler:

Could just have been the fuel for the device.

Also, the usual John Noble is an awesome actor.

[Alder]

Spoiler:

When Peter did that mind reading thing with one of them, it looked like they were capable of long distance space flight. Could they really not find a habitable planet out there?

Now *that* I totally missed. Hmm... <ponders>

[SlyReaper]

So was that observers episode non-canon or something?

[Alder]

So was that observers episode non-canon or something?

What would make you think that?

[You, sir, name?]

Spoiler:

Fringe just became this cool

[headprogrammingczar]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I have to say, Nimoy coming back was a complete surprise to me.

[SlyReaper]

So was that observers episode non-canon or something?

What would make you think that?

I just don't see the point in time skipping for a single episode and then skipping back as if nothing happened. There has been no foreshadowing of it in the episodes since, so it just seems completely out of place. Which is a shame because I want to know what happened next.

[Chen]

I just don't see the point in time skipping for a single episode and then skipping back as if nothing happened. There has been no foreshadowing of it in the episodes since, so it just seems completely out of place. Which is a shame because I want to know what happened next.

Yeah I felt the same. I figure though its building something up for next season or just the future in general. I mean the episode itself was fairly convoluted in making sure to get the team back together, it definitely felt it was leading to something. That or the writers just wanted to show off how they could get people invested into new characters through just one episode.

[Alder]

I just don't see the point in time skipping for a single episode and then skipping back as if nothing happened. There has been no foreshadowing of it in the episodes since, so it just seems completely out of place. Which is a shame because I want to know what happened next.

Hmm, ok. I guess I didn't read that much into it. I thought it was just a general glimpse of the future that September tried to warn Peter about - an extra reason for us to be invested in the Fringe team succeeding, 'cause if they don't, that's what we end up with. Or something...

DRAT IT, I'M THE LAST POST AND I JUST FOUND SOMETHING INTERESTING!!!

Oh well, edit button it is.

Remember how we were all taken aback by the behaviour of the Observers in episode 19?

I'm watching episode 3 of season 2, and Broyles is interviewing the crazy Colonel guy who was turning ex-soldiers into exploding crystal bombs.

Broyles: What was in the briefcase?

Colonel guy: They told you I was crazy, didn't they? The Pentagon. They said I'd had a psychiatric break. I told them what I'm telling you: that they are here, collecting data, making observations. That's what's in the briefcase. They've been planning for war. And they've been passing information via courier, right under our noses.

[Speech is intercut with a man handing over a black briefcase to someone sitting in a diner]

Broyles: Who are "they"?

[Cut back to the guy in the diner opening a pepper pot and pouring the whole thing over the food on his plate]

Colonel guy: We don't know who they are. But I can tell you what they want. They want to exterminate us. So they are studying us, our culture, our technology, our science, and they plan to use it against us. One way or another, we'll find out who they are.

[Back to the guy opening the briefcase, and the camera pans up to show an Observer]

Colonel guy: But by then, I suppose it won't really matter, because whatever is in those cases is going to destroy us all.

[Observer flips ominously through photographs of Walter and Peter]


...

The writers told us - 2 seasons ago - why the Observers were watching us, that they were planning for war and wanted to exterminate us, and we dismissed it 'cause the character who was speaking was the baddie of the week. Woah.

[Link]

Thoughts on the season finale:

Spoiler:

1. The "if you recognise the actor, then the character is going to be important"-trope made the revelation of Jessica Holt being a baddie rather unsurprising.
2. I hope that stasis rune thing gets a further explanation, because right now it's looking like they're going for some kind of "magic symbols are magic" deal, which doesn't seem to fit in with the established Fringe universe at all.
3. Goddamn the post-mortem interview scene was creepy. I'd expected it to either be like the version from In Which We Meet Mr. Jones (Season 1), or to involve some kind of brain-reading computer. It certainly caught me by surprise when she went all twitchy and talky!
4. Again something I hadn't expected: the way Walter killed Olivia. I mean, I knew it was going to be necessary, but a matter-of-factly headshot without warning -- wow.

[UniqueScreenname]

Thoughts on the season finale:

Spoiler:

3. Goddamn the post-mortem interview scene was creepy.
4. Again something I hadn't expected: the way Walter killed Olivia. I mean, I knew it was going to be necessary, but a matter-of-factly headshot without warning -- wow.

@3 - yeah, I don't get creeped out easily, but that was terrifying.
@4 -

Spoiler:

I was expecting her to do it herself. She's been feeling rather guilt-ridden lately, plus she has never been particularly happy. However, Walter doing it made more sense for bringing her back. If he shoots her, he will already be thinking about how to save her, but if she shot herself, the shock would take away from the speed of their actions.

[KrazyerKate]

Thoughts on the season finale:

Spoiler:

3. Goddamn the post-mortem interview scene was creepy.
4. Again something I hadn't expected: the way Walter killed Olivia. I mean, I knew it was going to be necessary, but a matter-of-factly headshot without warning -- wow.

@3 - yeah, I don't get creeped out easily, but that was terrifying.
@4 -

Spoiler:

I was expecting her to do it herself. She's been feeling rather guilt-ridden lately, plus she has never been particularly happy. However, Walter doing it made more sense for bringing her back. If he shoots her, he will already be thinking about how to save her, but if she shot herself, the shock would take away from the speed of their actions.

Spoiler:

Not to mention that Walter Bishop is the king of questionable morality. It's definitely not beyond him to hurt people. I hope that when we come back for the next season we get episodes chock full of doubt as to whether or not Walter has changed or if deep down he's still the same man that subjected the kids to Cortexiphan testing and stole Peter from Walternate.

[SlyReaper]

So, season 5. Looks like we're back in that awesome observer-dominated dystopia future.

[UniqueScreenname]

Spoiler:

Wasn't Olivia dead at the end of the last season? I don't mean in the modern-day world, but in the future world. I thought she wasn't able to amber herself or something like that.

[SlyReaper]

Well that's slightly worrisome. They've turned the plot of season 5 into a video game plot.

Spoiler:

Retrieve X number of a McGuffin, and the world will be saved.

[KrazyerKate]

Spoiler:

so are we just going to ignore the fact that Walter shot Olivia at he end of the last season and pretend it never happened?

Also, does it seem to anyone else that Walter looks and acts a lot more fit and youthful than he used to? I don't ever remember him being in enough shape physically or mentally to do some of the things he's doing in this season.

[mr-mitch]

Spoiler:

so are we just going to ignore the fact that Walter shot Olivia at he end of the last season and pretend it never happened?

Spoiler:

I think so, yes. In the special episode last season, where we see Etta for the first time, Walter blames Bell for what happened to Olivia, and no one seems to object. So they must have already buried that hatchet.

[KrazyerKate]

Spoiler:

so are we just going to ignore the fact that Walter shot Olivia at he end of the last season and pretend it never happened?

Spoiler:

I think so, yes. In the special episode last season, where we see Etta for the first time, Walter blames Bell for what happened to Olivia, and no one seems to object. So they must have already buried that hatchet.

Welp, guess Walter's back to the one-dimensional Quirky Doctor then.

[You, sir, name?]

Spoiler:

Are they going to make Peter the first Observer due to timey wimey stuff?

[SlyReaper]

Spoiler:

Seems implausible. For one thing, they were quite happy to see him erased from history in an earlier series. Secondly, where did the original implant come from? It's a timey wimey chicken and egg thing.

[You, sir, name?]

Spoiler:

Seems implausible. For one thing, they were quite happy to see him erased from history in an earlier series. Secondly, where did the original implant come from? It's a timey wimey chicken and egg thing.

Spoiler:

Well, that's the case no matter what happens. Surely the observer invasion will perturb the research that lead to them getting the technology required for invading.

[SlyReaper]

Spoiler:

You can't have it both ways though. There are two possible time travel history altering mechanics:
1) Going back in time affects the time you originated in, which creates the grandfather paradox.
2) Time travel is actually equivalent to going to an alternate reality, and nothing you do in the past will affect the time period you came from.

So assume Peter is the first observer. If 1 is true, then allowing Peter to be erased from history would have erased them from history. If 2 is true, then even if Peter gains observer powers in this timeline, he's still not the first observer from their timeline, unless their timeline also included an observer invasion in their 21st century. If that's the case, then you're back to the timey wimey chicken and egg thing. Either way, you get a paradox.

The only way I can see to avoid a paradox is for 2 to be true, and for the observers to have independently invented the implants in their own timeline.

[You, sir, name?]

Spoiler:

Okay. So now he's turning into Corvo Attano.