xkcd

by **Sungura** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:42 pm UTC

I had the exact thoughts as bio when I read the reply from FAOT. Im not sure where the pings came from exactly but that response was wayyyyyy too much for a little "have some pings will post more later". I have noticed FAOT has been chomping at the bit to put focus on other people (first me, then calling out a few others in his posts if you read buried in, and now bio) this attempt to toss buckets on people for what in reality are little things worries me.

However I cant say I am convinced enough to vote him quite yet. A person I currently find most interesting is mrface. His first post struck me as odd and I'll explain why. Firstly, he does give role spec but its basically exactly what everyone else already said. Of course this is not super unusual in and of itself, a lot of people had similar ideas. But all of a sudden he has a WHOLE PARAGRAPH about revers. And not just general musings, some very specific ideas on them, which had hardly or not at all been mentioned by anyone else. The difference between the Rever vs the rest is what stands out to me. Very specific ideas on going mad and how that process would work. Very precise wording.

It also bothers me how he said they are likely mafia, but then conversions work by taking people and turning them into serial killers. The latter sounds more like a cult. So...does he think they are mafia or cult? Sounding more and more they are a sk cult as has been suggested and agreed upon vagulely by a few, rather than mafia as others have thought. And I think some keys to its working are in mrface's post.

Couple this by lovely passive sort of scentences in his two posts ("Does that seem like too many scum/indies? I've never played in a game this size, so I'm not sure exactly how they're normally balanced." at the end of his role idea post, and then "But I'm generally against lynching lurkers. Waiting for someone who actually seems scummy seems like the way to go." in his most recent post.)

tl/dr:
- Very specific and unique Rever ideas, unlike any other rolespec from him
- Passive "how should i knows" and common "lets lynch scummy people" sentiments throughout

Folks, I think we have ourselves a Rever, and I think it's a cult. Personally, a cult of serial killers (if we are to believe him, which, I do as he should know best being one) is the last thing we need, and getting a cult out D1 is the best way to deal with it especially when it's one with kill powers.

Vote: mrface

by **roband** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:50 pm UTC

Not that I want to get myself in the bad books for disagreeing with Amy (I did that in my first ever game here - I was wrong) but looking back over mrface's post - it's here viewtopic.php?f=53&t=78802&start=40#p2862812 by the way - I don't see anything there which seems out of the ordinary.
By which I mean, something I wouldn't have said, as town. It seems like good solid spec to me.

by **Mostlynormal** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:41 pm UTC

I also disagree with Amy (small newbie though I am, going up against the psychic veteran). I don't see why someone would be that specific in their rolespec if they really did have that specific role, especially if it was sort of an "out there" possibility. I see it as more idle rolespec, feeling out possibilities. Also, looking back, I think there were actually people who discussed the possibility of reavers converting people before him, so really I don't see anything out of the ordinary.

by **roband** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:47 pm UTC

In fact, I'm going to step over another line here...

Vote Sungura

The legend says that she doesn't make mistakes like this. I've already said about how people are hiding behind spec. I think this is scum (or potentially indie) Sungura feeling like she has to prove her towniness early on, like she does normally.
Only, because everyone is hiding behind spec, she took a weak/nonexistent tell and extrapolated from that.

The alternative is we lynch MrFace, and if he flips town, we lynch Sungura?
But I think Sungura pushing on his nothing post, is scummier than his nothing post.

by **_infina_** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:24 am UTC

Votals:
FOAT - 1(b.i.o)
Brook - 1(Az001)
mrface - 1(Sungura)
Sungura - 1(roband)

by **Sungura** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:50 am UTC

roband wrote:The legend says that she doesn't make mistakes like this.

Doesn't make mistakes like what?

If anything the legend is I make calls based on things everyone else finds to mean nothing and then end up being /right/.

I took a big risk and threw myself into the limelight by saying what I said. I know that. If I am wrong, I KNOW Im gonna be lynched tomorrow. It's how it works. So...why would I risk all that if I wasn't quite sure? Your reasoning makes no sense.

by **b.i.o** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:47 am UTC

I see Sungura's point about mrface. Not enough for me to take my vote from where it is right now, but I can definitely see something like that being worthy of an early D1 vote.

In any case, I think that lynching Amy D1 is almost certainly a bad idea. I think there's likely to be at least one faction with a NK trying to kill her no matter what alignment she is. Even if you think she's likely scum, it doesn't make sense to use a lynch this early on killing her--make some scum faction use a NK instead.

by **mrface** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:56 am UTC

Looks like I've got an accusation to address

Sungura wrote:But all of a sudden he has a WHOLE PARAGRAPH about revers. And not just general musings, some very specific ideas on them, which had hardly or not at all been mentioned by anyone else. The difference between the Rever vs the rest is what stands out to me. Very specific ideas on going mad and how that process would work. Very precise wording.

Of course the reavers interest me more. There are multiple ways that they can be interpreted, when many of the other characters are relatively obvious (Simon as doctor, Jayne as vig, Niska as SK). As anti-town, they're also more important to pin down. I'm also not the only one who gave a lot of thought to them (I'd be surprised if anyone here didn't give them a lot of thought, even if they didn't post their thoughts). Adacore's post above mine, for example, has 'a whole paragraph' about Reavers, with only a sentence or two for many of the other characters. Does this make me suspicious of them? No, because when posting role spec, you generally put down what you think as you think it, in an almost flow of consciousness style of writing (that's how I do it, anyway). Since a lot of what you're thinking about is the Reavers, Reavers are a lot of what you write about.

Sungura wrote:It also bothers me how he said they are likely mafia, but then conversions work by taking people and turning them into serial killers. The latter sounds more like a cult. So...does he think they are mafia or cult? Sounding more and more they are a sk cult as has been suggested and agreed upon vagulely by a few, rather than mafia as others have thought. And I think some keys to its working are in mrface's post.

Judging from flavor, I thought (and still do) that the Reavers were the mafia. But, since there was an episode were a man became a Reaver, I allowed the possibility of conversion. In that episode, the Reavers did not purposefully convert the man--he was the lone survivor of a massacre, and the only way he could cope with what he saw was by losing his mind and gaining Reaver characteristics himself. Because of this, I figured Reavers would not always convert, and would only do so on accident--so mafia, but with a bit of a cult-like quality. Does that make more sense?

Sungura wrote:("Does that seem like too many scum/indies? I've never played in a game this size, so I'm not sure exactly how they're normally balanced." at the end of his role idea post

Role spec is all about opinion, and I wanted input from what other, more experienced players thought.

Sungura wrote:and then "But I'm generally against lynching lurkers. Waiting for someone who actually seems scummy seems like the way to go." in his most recent post.

Sungura wrote:- Passive "how should i knows" and common "lets lynch scummy people" sentiments throughout

Yes. Lynching scummy people is generally the way to go. Would you rather I suggest lynching people who aren't scummy? Lurkers are best to be left to the mod. Finding the real scum is what town should do.

Now on to who I think is looking scummy.

I'm more concerned about TheSecond Shadow, who had one post with some minimal content--only a bit of rolespec, and even then only on the town roles. The other posts aren't related to the game itself at all--it seems to me like they thought all the focus on Sungura's suspicions/their true identity as Brook would let them get away without any real content.

I also want more from Chandani--I'd totally forgotten they were in the game. This seems more like general passive lurking, however.

by **Chandani** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:24 am UTC

Hi.

Nothing much seems to be going on, really. I agree that FAOT's reaction seemed a bit overblown for such a small statement, but I disagree with Sungura's assessment for now.
Looking at mrface's post (the one linked by roband), he doesn't spend that much time on the Reavers. Really, it's 3 sentences total. And while he might have repeated stuff in rolespec... there's not much you can rolespec about. In fact, I don't mind the creativity a bit, considering he seems to get the idea based off the series, and jumping on people for being creative during rolespec doesn't seem that great of an idea. So I don't get why Sungura is jumping on him at all.

Other than that, I don't have anything to add. No one is really scummy since nothing much is happening, though if push comes to shove, I'll probably vote FAOT since he seems the most suspicious at this time.

by **roband** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:20 am UTC

Sungura wrote:
roband wrote:The legend says that she doesn't make mistakes like this.
Doesn't make mistakes like what?

If anything the legend is I make calls based on things everyone else finds to mean nothing and then end up being /right/.

I took a big risk and threw myself into the limelight by saying what I said. I know that. If I am wrong, I KNOW Im gonna be lynched tomorrow. It's how it works. So...why would I risk all that if I wasn't quite sure? Your reasoning makes no sense.

Well, I reckon you could be wrong. But as xkcdmafia, we're going to lynch MrFace based on what you've said - and we'll see.

I see your point. Regardless, we can make sure that things will be clearer by day 2.

by **mpolo** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:03 pm UTC

The meta for Sungura would suggest to trust her, and then make her pay up if it isn't correct.

However, IF there is some sort of cult-like action going on, we need to make very certain that we hit the cult quickly and decisively. Conversion is certainly possible considering flavor, but I can't quite get a handle on a working mechanism (unless they can choose to do one or the other, or have a 75% kill and 25% convert, or two separate powers, … O.K. I came up with a couple of mechanisms, but I can't say they really convince me.)

I hate always waiting until the end of the day to come to a decision, but it looks like that's what I'm going to do. I will be back after lunch.

by **roband** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:06 pm UTC

A few minutes under 3 days til deadline, for the record.

by **_infina_** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:20 pm UTC

roband wrote:A few minutes under 3 days til deadline, for the record.

Thank you roband...I would give you points, but they are pointless points.

by **Angua** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:29 pm UTC

Going back through the posts, looking specifically at Reaver spec - adacore posts very similar ideas to mrface (and a 'whole paragraph' as well) in the post directly before mrface's post. I can't see how amy would pick up on one without picking up on the other, which makes me feel more suspicious of amy than mrface at the moment.

by **mpolo** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:54 pm UTC

I guess I had a wrong day in mind for deadline. That's actually a relief.

In any case, I reread the last page or so. Some things felt much different than a day or two ago:

Sungura - spots Brooklynxman a mile away. Points out slight overdefensiveness from FAOT, particular interest in Reavers from mrface. However, others had similar ideas, even before him. It is true that mrface goes farther into fleshing out the hypothetical mechanism, but at the same time, I seriously doubt a real reaver would give us this much info. NEUTRAL, possibly a little scummy

roband - actively defends mrface and votes Sungura. NEUTRAL, possibly a little townie

mrface - not really a lot to go on. His spec post doesn't seem that much different than others. He's rather defensive, but a vote from Amy carries a bit more weight than many others, so this is probably appropriate. NEUTRAL

Chandani - Concedes that FAOT overreacted, disagrees with Sungura RE: mrface. NEUTRAL-townie (but not a lot to go on)

Angua - Very little to go on. Sees Amy as neutral. NEUTRAL-lurky

Mostlynormal - Very lurky: a bit of rolespec, and an "I don't agree with Amy" statement.

b.i.o. - rolespec, Mentions FAOT is pinging him without really detailing it. After FAOT reacts as he did, upgrades suspicion to vote. TOWNIE

FAOT - reaction to b.i.o's FoS seems a little extreme, a little lurky until we got past rolespec SOMEWHAT SCUMMY

Azrael001 - votes TheSecondShadow (not a lot of justification). NEUTRAL-lurky

Adacore, greenlover, TheSecondShadow, PhoenixEnigma - LURKY (all three had posts before where I arbitrarily started rereading, but nothing recent.

FAOT is the scummiest looking, but I can't really level a useful charge against him; it's just how the numbers fall.

by **Gopher of Pern** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:02 pm UTC

Sorry I haven't been posting, only had time to do modly duties.

FAOT's minor blow up seems unusual. I've not known them to blow up at nothing before. bio was really quick to vote for them after the over-defensiveness, which actually seems to me a bit town. FAOT, slightly scummy, but not enough for a vote yet.

Azrael comes up out of the blue and votes for Brook. No explanation or anything. Very suspicious.

Amy then goes on the attack on mrface. Have they played together before? I also don't see much wrong with mrface's post, so i'll leave everything as neutral for now.

A note on some lurkers: BF and GL have only had 1 post apiece, GL's being very little on content.

ATM, FAOT looks scummiest, but still only slight pings.

by **_infina_** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:20 pm UTC

Votals:
FOAT - 1(b.i.o)
Brook - 1(Az001)
mrface - 1(Sungura)
Sungura - 1(roband)

Without votes: greenlover, Boomfrog

by **Azrael001** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:25 pm UTC

Yeah, sorry about the silliness, I was feeling nostalgic for the days when day one was all about votes based on almost nothing, rather than long drawn out affairs with nothing but endless, neutral speculation. My vote is quite meaningless.

Unvote

by **ForAllOfThis** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:18 am UTC

I see where this is going and I think it's time to claim before I'm lynched.

I'm Shepherd Book.

My reaction wasn't meant to be overblown, I just thought it was ironic that I found the way in which bio called me scummy, scummy in itself. On top of that bio never even gave the original reasons why he thought I was scummy in his follow up post:

b.i.o wrote:I said I was getting a minor ping from you, not "Gee Willikers FAOT IS SCUM KILL HIM NOW". I didn't even vote for you yet. It is D1. There is not a lot to go on. I'm not going to give a well-thought-out explanation for my feelings because there's usually not one. Deal.

He even admits to not really having any, claiming its just gut instinct. I don't see that as particularly townie play, so you've earned a FoS: bio.

Now onto Amy, who gave better reasons for her pings of Mr Face than Bio did for me, so right now Amy is more likely town than Bio in my books. However, I don't agree with Amy's reasons for finding Mr Face scummy, they are very weak (but better than nothing, bio).

In looking deeper at posts from Mr Face, I actually found him scummy for a completely different reason, he posted nothing but rolespec until about a post ago. Then he suggests Brook is scummy for posting nothing but rolespec, which he himself is guilty of, so by his own logic is scum. Although his rolespec was focused on scum roles rather than town, which I think is a positive rather than a negative. It's only a slight suspicon though, and a suspicon that can apply to many players still at this point.

Right now, if much doesn't change by tomorrow my vote will probably on bio unless someone else stands out more.

by **Mostlynormal** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:25 am UTC

It's funny, I don't actually think FAOT's original post was an overreaction at all, more like an observation, but I find his last post a huge overreaction. You can "see where this is going," so you're going to claim straightaway? You only have one vote on you! Sure, some other people are expressing suspicion, but still, one vote, with three days left in the day! You couldn't have waited it out a bit more before claiming?

I don't really buy that. FoS: FAOT

by **ForAllOfThis** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:07 am UTC

Mostlynormal wrote: You can "see where this is going," so you're going to claim straightaway?

I don't really buy that. FoS: FAOT

I just read two player analyses which end with me being the scummiest, and other people on top of that mention that they thought I was scummy. There are only two days left till deadline, not three, which in a large game isn't very long.

It was in no way an over-reaction.

by **Angua** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:28 am UTC

I agree that 2 days isn't that long when it comes to these games, especially as people aren't posting that much (myself included), so FaoT isn't that unjustified in claiming now (also, there is unlikely to be an indy going after Book, so as long as no-one else claims Book, then it's probably pretty safe from that point of view). I always have trouble with D1 as there doesn't seem to be much to go on, so I wait for other people to pick up on stuff and see if I think that makes sense. I'm not sure what's going on with FaoT and bio, and the other pair mainly at odds is mrface and amy. I found amy more suspicious than mrface, but I don't know if I want to really go with that and vote for her, because I'm often wrong and so if amy is town I don't want to be the one to lynch her.

I hate D1.

by **roband** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:11 pm UTC

Just put real life stuff and mafia life stuff into the same picture and remembered that I'm going away for the weekend tomorrow.

I will try to access and post from my phone, but I can't guarantee signal. I'll be back on Sunday - but my vote is down and I'm happy with it

by **b.i.o** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:06 pm UTC

To everyone who says "oh I hate D1, there's nothing to go on". Or "nobody's saying anything, therefore I have nothing to say".

Guess what? None of that's going to change unless you do something about it. Yes, you. Stop whining. Stop hemming. Stop hawing. Doing nothing gets you nowhere. D2 really only brings you one additional set of information: the alignment of the person who was lynched, and the people who voted for them. That information is useless if you all sit around saying nothing until the deadline comes up, and then have to rush to lynch someone because that's what we do at the end of the day, right? It's Day 1. There are 16 of us. It takes NINE VOTES to lynch before the deadline. I'm not telling you to senselessly bandwagon people, but don't be afraid of having an opinion just because it might get you targeted.

If there's not a decent probability of you getting killed at any time you're playing wrong. I actually think that D1 has the possibility to be the most informative day in a mafia game, because there's no shared information to contaminate everyone's reactions. All you have to go on is your own role and alignment.

ForAllOfThis wrote:He even admits to not really having any, claiming its just gut instinct. I don't see that as particularly townie play, so you've earned a FoS: bio.

Of course it's gut instinct...it is D1, what else is there to go on? It's not like you've offered up a useful candidate for a lynch. Or any real opinion at all. You think the most suspicious person is...me...because I voted for you.

Stop acting personally offended because I voted for you. Especially when you've been acting like an asshole. (Which is, incidentally, the only reason I voted for you. I don't actually think you're scum, and your claim is probably truthful (and if it's not, someone else will counterclaim you soon enough). You just made a convenient scapegoat that I could use to provoke other people into responding.)

Anyway:
unvote: FAOT
vote: Chandani

For being lurky and then noncommittally jumping on the FAOT bandwagon.

by **mpolo** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:00 pm UTC

With FAOT rapidly moving into the "confirmed town" zone, I'm going to have to look more closely at others.

A whole lot of people were fingering him as scummy (including myself), but he didn't really let it get to the point of being a wagon where we can see who's just following. I was hoping that I would get something more solid before voting, myself.

Sungura's thing with mrface is weird. I want to believe Sungura, because having an infallible townie is an extreme benefit. Mrface's "reaver exposition" is much less notable than she makes it out to be. I have to reread there.

However, I don't have a lot of time right this minute to do so.

by **Chandani** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:45 pm UTC

@Bio:
I wasn't willing to vote for a person because of one comment. For me, that's not enough evidence. I could have FOSed or IGMEOYed FAOT, but that could easily be considered 'weak' or 'noncommital' depending on what you think about them. Again, out of not much information, there was just one flag, and I wasn't willing to vote on that.

Now... to FAOT's claim. I want to make this very clear right now that what I am saying is pure speculation. Speculation which I have done before, but might want to be considered with this new information. There will be spoilers for the series, so if you don't know anything about what happens during Serenity the movie, then it will surprise you.

Back in my first post, I asked if we knew where in the timeline this game was taking place. Sungura replied that it would be hard to mod a game like that, with such specific requirements, and that's true. However, would it matter if the game was set post or pre-Serenity (the movie)? It could be that the mod ignored the deaths of Wash and Book and just kept them in, if the game is set post-Serenity. But I think it's interesting that some people brought in Mr. Universe, who definitely appears after the main series, but didn't mention this idea at all. If you look at the opening flavor, the only names mentioned are Mal, Zoe, and the Reavers. Wash isn't named at all, and it could well be River piloting the ship instead.

If the game is set post-Serenity, then I'm less likely to trust FAOT's claim, solely because of Book's death during this time period. However, as a scum play, I don't know if scum would make this leap at all, let alone figure out if the game is post-Serenity or not. However, it could be that some might be betting on luck instead: because Book and Wash die in the end, they could be less likely to be in the game, and therefore be less likely to be claimed by other town players. This would give scum players town cred because of their supposed townie role.

So what I'm saying is that even if no one counterclaims FAOT, I'm not sure if I could trust him, because of the above. Am I saying he's scum? No, mostly because of the speculative nature of most of my logic above. Could it be possible? Depending on how the game is set up, yes. And if someone could point out something wrong with this logic, or any evidence that anything of the above is wrong, I will back down from this position and put FAOT in 'confirmed town' territory, after waiting some time for no counterclaims.

by **Gopher of Pern** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:23 pm UTC

Chandani, I find it very unlikely that this game would be 'set' in a particular period. If it is, it would likely be between the series and the movie, to get the most amount of characters, as almost every character can be in the game at this stage. (The only one I can think wouldn't be is Jubal Early, and it could easily be handwaved that he got rescued somehow.) Also, it is Firefly mafia, not Serenity Mafia, so Book and Wash are almost definitely in the game.

Unless there is a counterclaim, I'm going to believe FAOT.

I don't really like bio's vote on Chandani. Chandani was not the only one who 'jumped' on the FAOT 'bandwagon'. This isn't the first time that they've put out a vote with little justification, just look how FAOT turned out. The rest of what they're saying, while townie, could easily be said by scum as well.

So:

Vote: Bio

by **ForAllOfThis** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:47 pm UTC

That's a bit of a stretch, Chan.

@Bio, nice post complaining about people complaining (effectively trying to look like your saying a lot but really saying nothing). At least there was a vote and some reasoning this time, which is better contribution to discussion than most players in the game at the moment. Oh and there is no need to get personal with the name calling either, it's uncalled for. I assume that you woke up on the wrong side of the bed today or something? /patronising :lol:

I do have a question for you though, why do you think Chan's non-commital attack on me was more scummy than (in reverse order); GoP's, Mpolo's or Sungura's?

by **Sungura** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:06 pm UTC

Look, what bio is pointing out is exactly what a lot of us old timers take issue with in this new generation of players. Our day ones were usually mad, filled with votes tossed out and everything finding little tiny things to pick up on. Some of us were better than others at picking things up. Gojoe, Azrael, and myself stand out in my memory as being the best. Then you always had the Tigi vs Bulvox voting and other random "i dont like you so im voting you" deals.

Why am I saying all this? Because: a difference a playstyles is NOT a reason for a vote.

You dont have to agree with my assessment of Mr Face. But I see things, I pointed them out, and for me they are plenty for vote especially D1. Bio found FAOT's reaction scummy enough to warent a vote. Az has fun with the fast votings on little things. Etc etc.

What does all this create? DISCUSSION which is good. I find it very amusing that the three old timers, (weve basically played together for about 4 years? now) are the ones under scrutiny because...we are...creating good discussion and pointing out things we find scummy. Which is apparently all of a sudden a bad thing </sarcasm> I see a lot of complaining about this, and saying that it is scummy to point out what we find scummy, basically. So...if you are going to complain about us saying our thoughts, you'd better chime in with your own and more than just griping about us.

by **Sungura** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:08 pm UTC

Also a note: to people who are saying "a lot of people did x but z only found y scummy, wtf?" it is usually more in wording, phrasing, and a /whole picture/ thing.

by **b.i.o** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:20 pm UTC

ForAllOfThis wrote:@Bio, nice post complaining about people complaining (effectively trying to look like your saying a lot but really saying nothing)

Right, that's *exactly* what I was trying to do.

ForAllOfThis wrote:your

you're

At least there was a vote and some reasoning this time, which is better contribution to discussion than most players in the game at the moment.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Oh and there is no need to get personal with the name calling either, it's uncalled for. I assume that you woke up on the wrong side of the bed today or something? /patronising

Mmm nope, you're just being an asshole:

In the first post. Get a grip roband.

I think you mean bio, mpolo. He was the one that mentioend the alliance. There's clearly too many acronyms relating to names for you to remember!

I do have a question for you though, why do you think Chan's non-commital attack on me was more scummy than (in reverse order); GoP's, Mpolo's or Sungura's?

Chandani struck me as lurkier.

by **Mostlynormal** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:51 pm UTC

I think we should keep the point Chandani was trying to make in mind, which is that we can't be positive that Book is a character so we can't be positive that FAOT is town. I'd be okay with treating him as confirmed town for a while, but later on in the game we shouldn't trust anybody just because of a very-probably-true claim.

I find b.i.o pretty townie for trying to push things along and stuff. I can't say at the moment that I find anyone very scummy. I saw Chandani as just giving her opinion on FAOT, but not voting because he didn't really look that scummy. Also, I'd be sort of a hypocrite, because I'm basically doing just what she's doing.

Actually, I'm going to change my mind. GoPs vote seems pretty scummy to me. Why would you vote someone for putting out votes with little justification on D1? By the nature of D1, that means you'd find anyone who votes on D1 scummy, which is usually the opposite of the truth. So, in support of poorly justified votes, here's another one:

Vote: Gopher of Pern

by **ForAllOfThis** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:11 am UTC

Haha, the "get a grip roband" and "there's too many acronyms to remember!" was meant to be lighthearted banter, but I suppose you can't hear tone over the internet

. Sorry if it was misinterpreted as me being a dick, that's british humour for you. Neither was meant to be serious.

@Amy: The problem I see with throwing out votes/suspicion without reasoning, even on D1, is that it suggests you don't care who is lynched D1. Town should care who is lynched, so it suggests possible scum to me.

Also, I'm colour blind so finding this right blue is going to be a bitch! Think I've got it:

Vote: Chandani

I've never played a single themed mafia game that has been set in a specific time within a series. I don't see any reason why this one would be different so I can only see the speculation about my role as an attempt to muddy the waters around my claim, and I don't see why town would do that.

by **Chandani** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:23 am UTC

Speaking of lurkers...
I'm going to make a list! (Yes, I know I've lurked as well, but hey, might as well point out other people!)

Greenlover and Boomfrog are wonderful lurkers (that's why they lost their vote)
Adacore has made three posts, one of which was confirmation and the other was saying he was going to post soon (this was 2 days ago)
PhoenixEngima has made two posts, one of which was confirmation

The rest of the people have made a decent amount of posts, but people who should probably post a bit more: Brook (mostly because he hasn't posted in 5-6 days), mrface (who has made four posts but got a little more active recently)

Remember: there will be no modkills for lurking. I don't know if we should lynch lurkers, but they could become deadweight as the game goes on. Scum would probably keep them alive to help them later on, but not sure about the strategic implications of town pushing lynches on lurkers.

I'll back down from my time-theory and support Mostlynormal's point instead. We really don't know what roles are there other than what the flavor has stated.

Also... we have two RL days left in D1. Yay?

ninja'd by FAOT: ... Sorry? I mean, the game has to be set sometime in the Firefly universe. I'll take the point that Firefly != Serenity movie, and therefore wouldn't be incorporated into the game, but if it's the Firefly universe in general, and those events happened... couldn't it?
I'm not saying that it's exactly after a specific time, but still... if there was a, say, Twilight mafia game, wouldn't be a decent question to ask whether or not it was taking place before or after Breaking Dawn, because of new characters and how the characters change? That's what I was trying to get at with my spec.
Apparently this idea isn't typically used in mafia (sorry) so I retract what I said about the where the game is.

by **_infina_** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:37 am UTC

ForAllOfThis wrote:Also, I'm colour blind so finding this right blue is going to be a bitch!

use the color=#0000FF for your tag.

by **mrface** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:32 am UTC

~~I think Book and Wash are both almost certain to be in the game. There aren't a whole lot of other potential town characters.~~ If Serenity and Mr. Universe are both town, though, there would still be 9 townies. So actually, I'm going to leave it open as a possibility. However, claiming someone like Book is super ballsy for scum, so I'm going to leave FAOT as, if not 100% confirmed town, then at least at the top of my list.

I'm also going to withdraw my suspicion of Brook--the continued lack of posts makes me think it really is passive lurking, not active. While still not helpful, it's also not worth lynching over.

Angua's last post is really pinging me. It brings nothing new to the table, and essentially just complains about not liking D1. Nothing can be gained from this--there will always be a D1, and there's nothing to do about it. This seems to me to be an excuse for not saying anything specific or committal. Looking back at the rest of their posts, lack of much independent thought seems to be the trend there as well.

Vote: Angua

by **Azrael001** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:16 am UTC

So far I feel like I've been pretty lurky, however I am inclined to agree with both Amy and b.i.o, you whippersnappers don't know what you are doing, and back in my day we had to vote uphill both...

Anyway, people's reaction to b.i.o is odd to me, and I especially don't like GoP's last post. I'd almost be tempted to vote Chandani, but I think that their confusion is possibly innocent rather than deliberately muddying things up.

As such

Vote Gopher of Pern

by **Gopher of Pern** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:26 am UTC

Why is our reaction to bio odd to you Azrael? You agree with me that Chandani's confusion isn't necessarily a scum move, which is my main beef with bio. As to the whole 'back in my day' thing, I can see you guys all saying that whether you are innocent or scum. It's more a meta thing than a game thing.

mostlynormal, its the way bio is going about it. The vote for Chandani was for a reason that matched several people. The only reason bio chose Chandani is they were lurking more? Which I don't think is true, so it seems truly like a random vote, and they dont care who gets lynched.

In comparison, mrface brings up a good point about Angua. Their last post does seem to be 'day 1 is hard! I don't have anything else to say!' Almost worth a vote.

by **Angua** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:35 am UTC

mrface wrote:~~I think Book and Wash are both almost certain to be in the game. There aren't a whole lot of other potential town characters.~~ If Serenity and Mr. Universe are both town, though, there would still be 9 townies. So actually, I'm going to leave it open as a possibility. However, claiming someone like Book is super ballsy for scum, so I'm going to leave FAOT as, if not 100% confirmed town, then at least at the top of my list.

I'm also going to withdraw my suspicion of Brook--the continued lack of posts makes me think it really is passive lurking, not active. While still not helpful, it's also not worth lynching over.

Angua's last post is really pinging me. It brings nothing new to the table, and essentially just complains about not liking D1. Nothing can be gained from this--there will always be a D1, and there's nothing to do about it. This seems to me to be an excuse for not saying anything specific or committal. Looking back at the rest of their posts, lack of much independent thought seems to be the trend there as well.

Vote: Angua

Lack of independent thought seems to be a common complaint against me. However, when I generally go with reasons to find someone scummy, I'm generally wrong. Can't win there - I'm naturally not a very aggressive player, and have a tendency to look at things from the most charitable point of view because I have done all those things as town. I prefer D1s in games with a lot more unknowns about who could and couldn't be scum, because the differences in ideas makes it easier to find out about stuff. The problem with votes based on 'gut' by other people is that you can't really follow them unless you feel the same uneasiness yourself, and unless you are someone who gets strong gut feelings, this makes stuff difficult.

Anyway, I'm going to go with a lurker vote at this point. Reasons being:
1) They have a tendency to stay lurkers, and I'd rather have them gone now than have lots of them around later.
2) I haven't really noticed that much of a difference in distribution between town and mafia in the past, and so if I'm going to have what is basically a random vote, it should be against someone who probably won't make much of a difference anyway.

Therefore,

vote: greenlover

As they've been lurking in the last couple of games I've played with them, so I don't see this stopping any time soon (I could also have gone for PE).

by **TheSecondShadow** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:40 am UTC

Appologies for being a little lax in posting. I'm still getting back into the swing of playing mafia.

My first instinct is to trust Amy. She guessed me close enough in 2 posts. So unless I find reason to vote someone else, strong reason, Im voting mrface on faith.

I'll review the people who currently have votes on them
bio-lots of rolespec on the bad guys, not much on the good guys, by which I mean the only good guy he speculates on is mr universe. Fails to speculate on any crew members. Attacks faot pretty hard without much reason. Backs up that decision in the same post he unvotes and votes chandani, saying there is nothing to go on on D1. Like say, the nothing Im using to make this post. Indeed, votes for chandani the same post he unvotes faot for being suspicious of faot.
Verdict: Scummy

chandani-discusses the idea of timeline of the game. I dont buy it, lots of games draw characters from multiple points of time. Thats pretty much the extent of his contributions yet he calls people out for lurking.
Verdict: Hypocritical perhaps, but seems to be innocently so. I say town column for now.

GOP- good comprehensive rolespec, agrees with me on chandani's position, agrees with me bio is scummy, is on the "people saying d1 is hard suck".
Verdict: Seems town to me

greenlover-2 posts. No content.

vote: bio

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