Star Wars: The Old Republic

[Chen]

First month is free in that you pay 60 bucks for the game, and get a month to play. You then need to subscribe, which as you said you can cancel ahead of time, so the cost for the game entry is 60 bucks + 15 bucks for the next month.

This game is making me want to resub to WoW truthfully. It's WoW light in many regards, plus a handful of cool fixes or tweaks, also, lightsabers, but ultimately, it's still just WoW light.

Oh well yeah it'd be $75 if you want to play for 2 months. But the minimum price of the game if you want to play is $60 since you get one month free. If you cancel during that free month you don't have to pay the $15 even if you subscribed for monthly payments.

I mean it does feel like WoW light, but only insofar as WoW has a ton more content since its been out for 7 years and has 3 expansions to go with it. The leveling aspect I'd say is probably better in SWTOR than WoW. I always found WoW leveling just felt like a chore, whereas here I like the fact there's a coherent storyline attached to what my character is doing. Once you hit 50 and finish your class story though, it does become very WoW like except with less to do. There's your standard level 50 dungeons and heroic (hard mode) versions of some of these. Then there's the 2 current raids at 3 difficulties each. The only grinding there is to do seems to be grinding out daily quests for cash and badges which you can use to buy some early raid equivalent gear. Some sort of faction system is probably going to be needed to give people at 50 more things to do. People complain about grind but a lot of people like having different things to do once you hit max level. Faction vendors and the like are a pretty good thing WoW has done. Would be interesting to see something along those lines here.

That and some sort of big capital ships to buy/fight with. I figure thats a long time off but its definitely something I'd imagine they're looking at. Something sort of like guild housing that a lot of people want in MMOs. I'm actually kind of surprised WoW hasn't done this yet. I remember the good old days of UO where you would wander around people's houses and see all the fancy stuff they had. Of course odds are you then got killed, had your house key stolen and just lost the whole thing. But still part of it was fun. Though the urban sprawl was a tad annoying.

[Izawwlgood]

You cannot play until you set up a credit card subscription however, so even though you can cancel, you're still giving up a card and having to remember to decline the recurring fee. Which, yes, isn't the same as charging 75 bucks from the get go for 2 months, but still, I thought it was annoying.

Personally, I find the conversation thing to be a mixed blessing. On the one hand, it's refreshing to have an individual storyline for each class, so I don't feel like I'm doing the exact same shit each time I start a character, but, frankly, the storylines themselves aren't horribly involved to begin with, and, not surprisingly, still simply provide a core from which side quests, the same side quests, are fleshed out. So sure, I got to see a unique dialog between my Jedi Master about a psychological disease that's rendering other Jedi Masters insane, and that made me feel like I wasn't just another shmuck running through the beginning training of a Padawan, but in the process, I still had to go appease some dick head who wanted me to scan 5 droid cores because (who gives a fuck?). So, I find when dealing with side quests or repeating dailies, all I'm doing is space barring through the same boring shit that we see in every MMO.

Also, as a gripe, as a Sage, I find placing a 5 pt skill tree tax in TK was an incredibly rookie move on Bioware's part.

[maybeagnostic]

Well, I really like Bioware rpgs, that's the only reason I am interested in the game in the first place. I've only ever tried playing two MMORPGs- LOTRO which had me hooked for about a month and WoW which I stopped playing after three days or so.

Are the stories for the different classes sufficiently different and interesting to make people create new characters for each class? About how long does it take to play through a storyline?

[Chen]

Their skill tree design does need some work. The fact that currently snipers can either go full marksman or a combo of marksman/engineering and get almost the same DPS is somewhat neat though. But it does mean that the 31 point talent in marksman is fairly weak since you get the same benefit taking lower level talents in another tree.

That said, theorycrafting now is all well and good but its hard to actually determine a lot of these things because there's no damn combat log implemented in the game that you can parse. Personally I like theorycrafting in MMOs to min/max my character. I figure Bioware will eventually put something like that in so at least that will help.

Another thing I do find somewhat annoying is that if I want to play optimally I tend to have to look at my bars since I can't move any cooldown indicators anywhere else. Which really means I can't look at what my character is doing. This tends to be exacerbated by the fact there's no auto attack, so if you aren't pressing a button your character isn't doing ANYTHING. They really need to add some way to add cooldown bars/counters or something somewhere other than on the bar itself.

As for the storylines, I started around Jan 1 and I finished my Sith Warrior storyline a couple of days ago. And thats with some pretty heavy playing on weekends and evenings. I'm sure you can check online for average length to 50 (which roughly corresponds to finishing the class story) but I'd imagine it'd be severel real time days (24 hour) days played.

[Izawwlgood]

Yeah, there are a handful of glaring game design issues that are actually detracting from my enjoyment of the game. I feel like they're likely trying to get us to pay more attention to the story than the min maxing, but then, as you said, skill trees are also somewhat poorly balanced, which means I don't always have the flexibility of designing my character as I want to.

The lack of a combat log, and the horrid UI is also pretty crappy. I griped a little while ago about the lack of a dual spec, which, given a companion, I can SORT of dismiss, but I'm really left with the feeling that the designers didn't think this through.

As for how good the storylines are, like I said, it's nice that they're there, and that the game itself isn't a giant "Oh hey, yet another Shaman, well, better go do your stuff, excuse my boredom, I've just done this a billion times..." but instead placing you as the protagonist of a tale, but frankly, meh, the tale isn't horribly unique or compelling, or otherwise involved. I'm still given a set of choices to make, that ultimately probably only influence my light/dark tendencies or different loot outcomes.

I've been at it for a little over a week, and feel like as cool as it is being a Mage with a Lightsaber, that I will certainly not renew past what I have paid, and may even cancel before I'm charged for the second month. Because frankly, WoW did almost everything else better, minus lightsabers.

[mosc]

I agree, but WoW is pretty long in the tooth and many people are bored with it's setting. Also, I think MMO's take several months to really land on their feet. WoW was no exception. SW:TOR seems particularly straightforward to level to max compared to other MMO's at which time the developers have been noticeably lack on their development. That seems to be a clear area of future improvement.

And the PVP in WoW was terrible. TOR is much more playable. Not that it's a strength really, but that along with the ship combat missions at least give you some diversions.

WoW is a very polished thing. The user interface is a prime example. No MMO will debut with that kind of stuff.

[Izawwlgood]

I'll grant you PvP as well; I like that battlegrounds in SWTOR seem to allow for even matching of every character; no one is shit stomping anyone in 4-6s. It feels much more like WAR in that regard.

That said, the UI makes teaming up and healing a team virtually impossible. It's just a giant sloppy FFA.

[Chen]

I've been at it for a little over a week, and feel like as cool as it is being a Mage with a Lightsaber, that I will certainly not renew past what I have paid, and may even cancel before I'm charged for the second month. Because frankly, WoW did almost everything else better, minus lightsabers.

I'd suggest trying a different class in terms of story before dismissing it. I've heard the Inquisitor and Consular storylines are the weakest of the bunch. The Sith Warrior one wasn't fantastic but it was much better than any random other MMO stuff. And I've started the Imperial Agent one and it seems fairly interesting too.

[Ixtellor]

Attack of the Show gave it 5 out 5 stars (and they added half stars now) apparently all those guys are addicted to it.

I Hit level 50 few weeks ago, and I still only play my level 50 char. I don't have an obscene playtime so I always have something to do.
I loved my Sith Warrior story line. Actually everyone in my guild loves their storyline and their character.
I have done about 15 hardmodes now, and its not boring yet so I am still content.

I think people with big playtimes are probably getting bored with the level 50 content, but I assume the Nightmare modes are still entertaining.

I assume that people will eventually playing all 8 classes just to see the storylines. I hear the Jedi guardian one is pretty awesome and the Operative one is very 'informative'.

[Chen]

Attack of the Show gave it 5 out 5 stars (and they added half stars now) apparently all those guys are addicted to it.

I Hit level 50 few weeks ago, and I still only play my level 50 char. I don't have an obscene playtime so I always have something to do.
I loved my Sith Warrior story line. Actually everyone in my guild loves their storyline and their character.
I have done about 15 hardmodes now, and its not boring yet so I am still content.

I think people with big playtimes are probably getting bored with the level 50 content, but I assume the Nightmare modes are still entertaining.

I assume that people will eventually playing all 8 classes just to see the storylines. I hear the Jedi guardian one is pretty awesome and the Operative one is very 'informative'.

After grouping with a Sorc to do one of the level 50 Ilum group quests, I realized just how little damage a tank specced Juggernaut does, even with a DPS companion out, compared to a real DPS class. I suspect as I play through on my new Sniper char I should probably be tearing through things significantly faster even if I have to use a tank or healer companion.

That said I still like my tank Juggernaut. I need to find a good mix of dailies to do that aren't too far apart but so I can still get all the badges I need. One thing is nice in that the last space daily now gives 2 badges and is pretty simple to do. Also the fact you can buy the level 22 item modification pieces (mods and enhancements) on the AH is good in that I don't have to worry about doing the group quests if I can't find a group for them. Making epic implants (especially the ones with the augment slots) is making me a ton of money, in addition to the standard selling of companion gifts, mandalorian iron and orange belts/bracers (which some people are still selling for <10k credits when they easily sell for 150k-200k, presumably because they don't know any better).

[Izawwlgood]

My sage went artificing, archaeology and treasure hunting. Is biosynthesis better?

[Ixtellor]

Biotech is hands down the most useful skill.

I have 400 synthweaving,archaeology, and underworld. And I basically lose money.
I have not gotten into crafting and selling items, but the good stuff takes mandalorian iron and its hard to come by. I have tried selling Mastercrafted blue items, and I don't very much money for them.

Only good thing is that all my epics that I craft are master crafted so I get an extra slot.

I didn't know you get daily commendations for space missions. I finally learned how to fly my damn ship with full upgrades + 2 epic pieces but still die sometimes. Didn't realize how important it is to switch into full shield and try and keep them fully charged.

Jugg Warriors. We do no damage, but I still love my character. PowerTech tanks are better than us period, but I am ok with it, it will all get worked out and I am buildling a reputation on my server in the pug community as a solid tank for Hard Modes.

The boss fights that give me trouble from lack of taunts are the ones with lots of adds. Particularly when the adds are 'strong'.

Also the final fight in Boarding Party, I only tried it once and we failed, but I think it was due to our healer being in all greens. Still keeping agg with 3 boss's was challenging.

[Izawwlgood]

Yeah I have Artificing and the two other skills at 100, but given that there's that reusable med kit to be had, I'm thinking of switching to biosynth.

[Ixtellor]

Yeah I have Artificing and the two other skills at 100, but given that there's that reusable med kit to be had, I'm thinking of switching to biosynth.

Yes switch. If you want to be rich also take slicing.

Bio + slicing = win.

[Izawwlgood]

Why? Can you sell everything from slicing?

[Metaphysician]

Well, got to 50 on my assassin, got almost fully champ geared, everybody I was playing with quit... now I'm playing Dota 2.

[The Utilitarian]

Why? Can you sell everything from slicing?

Slicing produces credits straight up, no need to sell anything. You literally craft money.

Hmmm can't decide whether to take my sage deep into balance and pick up the capstone or 50/50 split into telekinesis.

[Izawwlgood]

50/50 split? Why would you do that?

[The Utilitarian]

50/50 split? Why would you do that?

Balance gives me virtually free no cooldown high damage TK throws which have a 30% chance per tick to make my next cast time spell instant\
TK gives me a 3 s high damage multi-target spell that would be a perfect match for this ability, and the possibility for each of my instant cast dot ticks to make my next TK throw channel twice as fast.

Good synergy.

[Izawwlgood]

Like this?
Seems TKT spam isn't necessarily the rotation to maximize damage output.

[The Utilitarian]

Like this?
Seems TKT spam isn't necessarily the rotation to maximize damage output.

More like this

Keep in mind it's for pvp, not raiding or any such thing

[Chen]

Yes switch. If you want to be rich also take slicing.

Bio + slicing = win.

I've made far more money with Underworld Trading than Slicing. Slicing is nice if you crit and get a good 340 level mission to sell. The slicing, treasure hunting and Underworld Trading missions sell for a lot. The rest are kind of crappy. Augments are only worth sending your guys out for if you are using the 340 unlockable missions because the regular green augments are pretty bad. While the regular money gain from slicing is net positive, its extremely low. Last spreadsheets I was looking at had it at somewhere near 30 credits/min which is negligible at 50. It is good while leveling up since getting the skill to 400 costs practically nothing due to the money gains, but its not going to be raking you in the money. At 50, selling things like Mandalorian Iron or Biochem/Diplomacy mats makes a TON of money. Even the companion gift missions are about break even with slicing in the worst case or make more money in the best case (e.g., level 5 blue gifts sell between 3k-5k and cost 2k and half an hour to do. At low end thats ~33 credits/min which is about the same as slicing profits).

I'm starting to regret not having Diplomacy on my main since I can't seem to find a lot of Radioactive paste on the GTN and I need that to craft the purple implants. I guess I'll raise Diplomacy on an alt and just grind it out so I can try to get more of those mats.

[Ixtellor]

On my server Mandolorian iron only goes for like 8k. So If I send out 5 companions I will probably net 2 pieces at a cost of 16k... hence not worth it.

I do buy 340 epic missions for 20K a pop(thats a slicing product) and those generally net me 4 Irons.

But... I am a 400 snythweaver so I need all the mandalorian iron I can get, I am still trying to get a crit on my Rakata bracers.

Well, got to 50 on my assassin, got almost fully champ geared, everybody I was playing with quit... now I'm playing Dota 2.

People with insane playtimes are going to run out of stuff to do. I put in about 8-12 hours per week and I still have TONS to do on my 50, Have been playing since early game and still don't have an alt. For power gamers, there isn't enough content at 50 unless you have alt-itis.

I still log on with great excitment and only wish I could play more.

I went back to PvP after hitting 50 with all epic gear (only 2 PvP epics) and ended 4 matches in a row with the most medals. Its all about taunting and reducing damage on other people for my Immortal Spec Sith Warrior. My damage is generally in the top half, so I am satisified with that. Being Hard to kill is highly rewarding. I had one game with zero deaths then I force lept into the enemies area and got insta killed by a turbo laser or something.

[Chen]

On my server Mandolorian iron only goes for like 8k. So If I send out 5 companions I will probably net 2 pieces at a cost of 16k... hence not worth it.

The missions that can bring in Mandalorian Iron usually cost ~2k-2.5k. Thing is they bring in Ciridium too which easily sells for 1k a piece if you don't flood the market with it. The Mandalorian Iron is just the bonus I find. The Ciridium makes the missions essentially break even (or make you money if its a mission that gives 4). It does seem the "Rich Metal" level 6 mission is bugged since its green colored and always returns 2 bars instead of the abundant one that yellow and returns 4 bars.

[Webzter]

On my server Mandolorian iron only goes for like 8k. So If I send out 5 companions I will probably net 2 pieces at a cost of 16k... hence not worth it.

The missions that can bring in Mandalorian Iron usually cost ~2k-2.5k. Thing is they bring in Ciridium too which easily sells for 1k a piece if you don't flood the market with it. The Mandalorian Iron is just the bonus I find. The Ciridium makes the missions essentially break even (or make you money if its a mission that gives 4). It does seem the "Rich Metal" level 6 mission is bugged since its green colored and always returns 2 bars instead of the abundant one that yellow and returns 4 bars.

On the server I was on, Kaas City, Mandalorian Iron goes for around 10k. I used Slicing to pick up some UWT missions and sold the other missions. I also scoured the GTN and bought UWT level 340 missions whenever they were under 40k (I picked up 200k credits worth at 30k each). Those bring in about 60k worth of mats. All told, I made 1mm credits in two days.

I ultimately stopped on SWTOR because I had a hard time not playing it. My game of choice before this was Age of Conan... a fun, but buggy MMO with a fairly compelling combat system (aside, if anyone is free to play on that game and wants a paid account, pm me... I'll give mine away).

Overall, I enjoyed my time in SWTOR. The story-lines were compelling, the missions weren't too boring. The space rail shooter was a great diversion. For me, the global cooldown was hard to get used to, but I ended up really getting into the pvp in-game (I was valor rank 0 on Thursday after work, rank 20 by Friday night.... worked Friday too)

[Obby]

I ultimately stopped on SWTOR because I had a hard time not playing it.

That was my problem, too. I had to quit because I would never graduate college with how often I was playing. I'll pick it back up after I finish school.

[Woopate]

I'm sitting around on coruscant(by which I mean tattoine) waiting for my friends to level, since I discovered playing with them was funner than going through alone, due to the conversation mechanics. They have not been playing. It frustrates me.

[Dark567]

coruscant(by which I mean tattoine)

Heh. I got that and I haven't even played the game.

[Ixtellor]

I hit 18,000 unbuffed hitpoints yesterday when I got a (120 daily commendation) Rakata ear piece. I'm to casual of a gamer to get in on Ops, so feeling pretty decked out.
Will also get a major lightsaber upgrade after 4 more HM's. (Im a Sith Warrior Tank)

Still love the game. I did decide to quit making stuff with synthweaving, and just to sell mats from now on. Made 300K just selling stuff in my inventory (not including cargo bay).

Now I am going to start gearing up my companions.

Space combat is a breeze for me now.

I am finally getting to the point where I might make an alt, since I am nearing the max in gear at my playtime. Going Bounty Hunter, probably DPS spec unless I actually want to get in pugs constantly, then might go healer.

Game rocks, people on the SWTOR forums are WHINERS, who expected 12 years worth of coding content on Day one.

[Panonadin]

I happen to have a SWTOR account and I hated the game.

So if anyone is interested in giving the game a try doesn't want to pay for it and maybe has something game wise to trade.....

P.S. No I am not trying to use the forum to "sell" my account.

[Izawwlgood]

Game rocks, people on the SWTOR forums are WHINERS, who expected 12 years worth of coding content on Day one.

Not really. They expected a decent polished product, and got something that was only mediocre. It's got a lot of legitimate strengths and an enormous list of serious flaws. It also has lightsabers. I really can't stress that enough (So I will again! Fucking lightsabers!).

I was extremely disappointed with a significant number of aspects of the game, and I do not regret not playing for the last two weeks.

[Ixtellor]

Not really. They expected a decent polished product, and got something that was only mediocre. It's got a lot of legitimate strengths and an enormous list of serious flaws. It also has lightsabers. I really can't stress that enough (So I will again! Fucking lightsabers!).

I was extremely disappointed with a significant number of aspects of the game, and I do not regret not playing for the last two weeks.

I leveled all the way to 50 and never encountered a single bug. Everything worked perfectly.

Are you calling no battle log a "serious flaw"?
One of the top complaints is the UAI... Give me a break. Im sorry people can't have their buttons the exact size and color of their choosing. I never once found the UAI to be an impediment to playing the game and I use every hotbar.

Seems to me the only legit complaints are from Hardcore gamers who burned through all content and then ran out of stuff to do, and that has nothing to do with polish, and everything to do with amount of content.

The majority of complaints are about 'easy button's that people got used to on WoW.
1 button raid healing.
1 button to instantly find you a group.

Crafting... its not great, but I ended up with 2 superior Rakata pieces out of it, and now make millions off it.

So, what do you feel were its Tragic flaws that made you leave?

[Izawwlgood]

Are you calling no battle log a "serious flaw"?

Yes.
I also hated how 90% of the quests I did seemed to be 'run to this far off point to talk to someone, about nothing particularly interesting, then run all the way back'. Gabe's complaint was something that bothered me to no end from the get go. Bioware hailed the game as having innovative chat systems, but in reality, it just boiled down to 'listen to this obnoxious person ask me to do the same boring bullshit quests that every MMO has, with a couple conversation options that may have an affect on my companion, my Light/Dark status, or the type of loot I get'. I found Sage builds to be pretty boring and not really anything new or novel, and reading up on the other mechanics and classes didn't impress me either.

Generally, the game felt empty, like even though I could fly to different planets and travel between floors on these enormous space stations, the majority of what was there seemed to be filler; long empty hallways or surprisingly unpopulated conference rooms. To me, it seemed like Bioware was banking pretty hard on the Star Wars (also, lightsabers. I want to reiterate that... Lightsabers are rad), and paid less attention to the game part.

I had fun for about two weeks, then just didn't have any desire to keep going. Maybe the game opens up a lot or there's great end game content (I've heard that's not true), but I just didn't stay drawn to it.

One thing I will say, I had fun in PvP. But all told, the PvP in WoW was just as fun, if a little more gear heavy, and the PvP in WAR was best of all. Considering I'm still playing BLC, I just wasn't that interested in pursuing either PvP or pushing for end game raiding in SWTOR.

[Swivelguy]

One of the top complaints is the UAI... Give me a break. Im sorry people can't have their buttons the exact size and color of their choosing. I never once found the UAI to be an impediment to playing the game and I use every hotbar.

Seems to me the only legit complaints are from Hardcore gamers who burned through all content and then ran out of stuff to do, and that has nothing to do with polish, and everything to do with amount of content.

The majority of complaints are about 'easy button's that people got used to on WoW.
1 button raid healing.

Oh good, the strawman "if you complain about the UI you must want 1-button gameplay" argument. The aspects of the UI that need improving are pretty simple things, and only the fact that the existing content is so easy makes their absence forgivable.

When I played WoW, it had fire that would literally kill you if you took 1 second too long to move out of it. When you have things like that, you should to be able to freely move your hotbars and buffs/debuffs around so that you can perform at maximum with your eyes on the important part of the screen (the middle). This does not enable 1-button gameplay.

WoW had a lot of debuffs that would kill extremely quickly if not cleansed. The only thing SWTOR has that's remotely like this is the "my turn/your turn" gibs on 16-man nightmare Jarg+Sorno. When you have effects like this, raidframe debuff highlighting and mouseover casting are very nice for healers to have. This does not enable 1-button gameplay.

One of the biggest things that advanced players did in WoW was set up custom filters for buff/debuff bars to show exactly what's important, in a prominent way. Setting these up properly would help you see which targets in pvp were vulnerable and which were protected by cooldowns. It would make it easy to tell what you were CC'd by and how soon you could look forward to getting out of it. But to get this sort of information accessiblity, you had to set it up yourself. You had to know where you wanted everything, the names of the buffs and debuffs of concern, and slog through nonstandardized menu interfaces to set it all up. This was not a thing that you just download, install, and click go, nor was it a thing for novice players. It raised the skillcap, not lowered it. SWTOR's little shifting rows of icons above the healthbars is a total joke by comparison.

[Ixtellor]

Bioware hailed the game as having innovative chat systems, but in reality, it just boiled down to 'listen to this obnoxious person ask me to do the same boring bullshit quests that every MMO has, with a couple conversation options that may have an affect on my companion, my Light/Dark status, or the type of loot I get'.

Those "couple options" your talking about are include things like:
killing the quest giver
betraying the quest giver
lieing to the quest giver
extorting the quest giver
helping the quest giver, and ending up with new quests.
100% altering how an entire dungeon functions and what bosses you encounter.
just to name a few.

Did they totally reinvent questing and grinding... no. Did they do more than anyone in the history of the genre to make quests more interesting and provide real alternatives.. YES.
During Lich King, I had a max level belf with a good gear score. I never once read ANY quest. I never even knew what the quests were or why. Does anyone read quests in WoW or any other mmo?

Generally, the game felt empty, like even though I could fly to different planets and travel between floors on these enormous space stations, the majority of what was there seemed to be filler; long empty hallways or surprisingly unpopulated conference rooms

Thats a content problem. There hasn't been enough time to write a billion new mobs and insert them throughout the vast world. Clearly the coders were focued on bigger issues.

When I played WoW, it had fire that would literally kill you if you took 1 second too long to move out of it.

There is lots of that in SW. HK in Foundry will insta kill who ever he 'backstabs' unless the tank and/or healer act in perfect time. Reven will insta kill unless he is interupted at the right time. The final fight in most story lines quests, have insta kill abilities. Many bosses will knock you to your death if your not paying attention.

raidframe debuff highlighting and mouseover casting are very nice for healers to have. This does not enable 1-button gameplay.

Again, as a heroic healer paladin I had curse client and it (the various dl's) told me exactly what to heal, when to heal, when to run, when to do EVERYTHING. From day one of when I switched from DPS to heals, I could heal all non-25 heroic content.

I didn't even look at the fight's I was staring at boxes of names the whole times and my 'idiot box' told me exactly what to do in all situations.

This was not a thing that you just download, install, and click go, nor was it a thing for novice players. It raised the skillcap, not lowered it.

The only skill it raises is your ability to maniupulate the UI and continually require less on your part, and become ever more reliant on your UI.

Takes me back to MUD's. Where zmud and +tintin became a crutch and people who used to suck at their character suddenly had a program that took over the character and made them look good.

Good player = process information quickly and make the correct decision quickly
Bad player = no idea whats going on or what to do to overcome the challenge. Oh when the Giant Dragon rears up and flame fills his nostrals, I should run behind him.

Boss Mods and all the other Curse Client stuff - is the great equalizer. Now great players are defined by playtime and coding ability.

WoW player "I would like to try playing a Warlock DPS even though I have always been a warrior tank"
Download "Warlock DPS mod".
Oh shit, this is easy!

[Swivelguy]

Good player = process information quickly and make the correct decision quickly
Bad player = no idea whats going on or what to do to overcome the challenge. Oh when the Giant Dragon rears up and flame fills his nostrals, I should run behind him.

Bad player, good UI = no idea whats going on or what to do to overcome the challenge.
Good player, good UI = process information quickly and make the correct decision quickly.

Bad player, bad UI = no idea whats going on or what to do to overcome the challenge.
Good player, bad UI = no idea whats going on or what to do to overcome the challenge because they don't have information to process.

Nobody's asking for Boss Mods. I'm asking for mouseover casting, freely movable hotbars, and customizable (movable, sizeable, filterable) buff/debuffs. Maaaaybe even simple macros, the sort that would do only what people are already doing (and not violating the EULA by doing) with programmable keyboards. That would just equalize a playing field currently slanted by what hardware you own.

[Izawwlgood]

Did they do more than anyone in the history of the genre to make quests more interesting and provide real alternatives.. YES.

I disagree; I felt WAR did just as good a job making me feel like I was actively changing the world I was interacting with. But that aside, I don't really care if I get a quest that's 'Kill six cats and bring me their teeth' is being given by a dude who has a scratchy voice and bitches about how those cats killed his girlfriend, or by a few paragraphs of text. I'm going to skip it either way, because it's irrelevent. Furthermore, if my options when getting/delivering the quest are 'be a dick', 'be neutral' or 'be a nice guy', I don't really think that 'enhances the experience' or 'adds depth to the world', I think that just shows Bioware thinks all conversational interaction/personality types come in three options. Giving me a handful of slightly different outcomes based on choosing 'be a dick' or 'be a mensch' doesn't count as novel or 'doing more for the genre than anyone else'.

Thats a content problem. There hasn't been enough time to write a billion new mobs and insert them throughout the vast world. Clearly the coders were focued on bigger issues.

Then they shouldn't send me on a 5 minute walk to to deliver a quest that amounts to 'good job, now go walk back and talk to this other guy'. My complaint was a lack of content; lightsabers, cool as they are, will only carry you so far.

The only skill it raises is your ability to maniupulate the UI and continually require less on your part, and become ever more reliant on your UI.

I healed 25 man raids with Healium. I'll agree it sort of becomes 'stare at boxes and fill the bars', but I found that level of powergaming to be pretty fun. I don't think that's absent from SWTOR; it's just harder to see the boxes and bars, and you have no data to look at to tell you if you're doing it right. That's not a feature, that's a shortcoming.

[Panonadin]

Those "couple options" your talking about are include things like:
killing the quest giver
betraying the quest giver
lieing to the quest giver
extorting the quest giver
helping the quest giver, and ending up with new quests.
100% altering how an entire dungeon functions and what bosses you encounter.
just to name a few.

You are doing that thing that people do when they are a fan of something and refuse to see the many, many, serious flaws in it. I don't remember what it's called.

I only quoted the first part because pointing out everything wrong with the game is boring, you play it so I assume you know where the forums are. Many, many, many people that are playing and played the beta complained about numerous issues. An overwhelming amount actually.

But I felt like responding to this single thing you pointed out which is true. You do have all those options, which is great the first 5 times. Or 10, or 15? After 6200 quests giving you the same exact options it's not "oh hey wow look at these options!!!" anymore. It's SPACE BAR SPACE BAR SPACE BAR SPACE BAR. I broke my space bar playing that game, not from anger just from overuse.

[Coin]

I think that's very much down to the player. When I played the Beta I found the quests more engaging in many cases because the outcome had more effect than +500gold +100rep or whatever. Being faced with moral dilemmas is fun to me. Then again, many of the missions were poorly written with choices that didn't make sense, so I guess it depends also on the general quality of the missions.

[Izawwlgood]

I think that's very much down to the player. When I played the Beta I found the quests more engaging in many cases because the outcome had more effect than +500gold +100rep or whatever. Being faced with moral dilemmas is fun to me. Then again, many of the missions were poorly written with choices that didn't make sense, so I guess it depends also on the general quality of the missions.

"Hello Jedi, it seems you've caught me red handed in something somewhat criminal but for a good cause! What will you do now?"
1. Turn you in, you evil doer! [+100 light side pts, 500 credits]
2. Turn a blind eye, but demand you resign because I can totally make you do that! [-10 companion affection, 500 credits]
3. Blackmail you for oodles of cash! [+100 darkside pts, 1000 credits]

Pardon me if I don't give a shit about this. The options all seemed to boil down to maybe a handful of other quests (go kill 6 cats... go scan 8 droids) with a couple other obnoxious voice overs, or, alter the loot/point breakdowns. That's not 'true diversity of quest interactivity'.