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legend wrote:You might be interested this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characterizations_of_the_exponential_function
Also sorry, but I don't know what you mean by e^x. Usually for real numbers you define a^b:=exp(ln(a)*b). So using this to define the exp function gives you a circular definition.
korona wrote:e^x is continuous so if x is a real number, (x_1, x_2, x_3, ...) is a rational sequence converging to x then (e^x_1, e^x_2, e^x_3, ...) converges to e^x.
But if you define e^x that way then you have to show that the sequence converges and does not depend on the choice of the x_i.
Defining exp as a power series gives you differentiability on the radius of convergence for free.
gfauxpas wrote:Okay, let me try to explain.
e^x for natural number indices: e multiplied by itself x times. Product of no numbers is defined as 1.
Negative integers: e^x = 1/e^(-x)
rational numbers: e^(p/n) = (the nth root of e)^p = the nth root of (e^p)
irrational numbers: .... ??
Is there a way to continue this pattern using, I dunno, limits? sequences?
korona wrote:EDIT: @yakk You cannot say "that holds if f is continuous" as you cannot really define continuity for a function defined on the rationals. In general not every function from Q can be extended to R that way.
gfauxpas wrote:I see how you can jump from most of the definitions to the other, using the FToC or theorems for the existence of power series or whatever. But the definition as the limit of a sequence (1 + x/n)^n seems to be in the middle of nowhere. How does that one imply any other definition?
tomtom2357 wrote:Actually, you can define continuity on the rational numbers, because the rationals are dense, from which it follows that between any two rational numbers there is another rational number. All you have to do is tweak the epsilon delta definition slightly so that the only x values allowed are rational numbers.
PM 2Ring wrote:gfauxpas wrote:I see how you can jump from most of the definitions to the other, using the FToC or theorems for the existence of power series or whatever. But the definition as the limit of a sequence (1 + x/n)^n seems to be in the middle of nowhere. How does that one imply any other definition?
You can do what Newton himself did: use binomial expansion on (1 + x/n)^n, which will give you the power series.
ameretrifle wrote:Magic space feudalism is therefore a viable idea.
gfauxpas wrote:I see how you can jump from most of the definitions to the other, using the FToC or theorems for the existence of power series or whatever. But the definition as the limit of a sequence (1 + x/n)^n seems to be in the middle of nowhere. How does that one imply any other definition?
PM 2Ring wrote:You can do what Newton himself did: use binomial expansion on (1 + x/n)^n, which will give you the power series. It's not exactly rigorous, but hey.![]()
\gfauxpas wrote:PM 2Ring wrote:You can do what Newton himself did: use binomial expansion on (1 + x/n)^n, which will give you the power series. It's not exactly rigorous, but hey.![]()
Oh whoa the binomial theorem works for all real powers? Cool, I'll look into that
addams wrote:This forum has some very well educated people typing away in loops with Sourmilk. He is a lucky Sourmilk.
mike-l wrote:It does, but you can evaluate the limit using any sequence that goes to infinity, in particular with just integers. (This doesn't prove the limit exists, but proves that if it does, then it's equal to what you get)
gfauxpas wrote:I can prove the limit exists if I'm allowed to use logarithm laws. But, um, yeah.
ameretrifle wrote:Magic space feudalism is therefore a viable idea.
jestingrabbit wrote:gfauxpas wrote:I can prove the limit exists if I'm allowed to use logarithm laws. But, um, yeah.
Well, I trust that you can show that the limit is monotonically increasing for positive x, so all you need is an upper bound, so I would suggest that that is where to focus your energy. In particular, you know that 3^x is an upper bound, or 4^x, or those after you round x up etc etc. I suspect that if you pick a large enough upper bound for the sequence the proof will be doable.
Note that you might need to assume the rule is true for integer powers of integers, but that's not a real problem imo. To some extent, this result should come out of that other one.
gfauxpas wrote:Sorry, why does \exp (x + \frac 1 n) = c \exp x?
OverBored wrote:Ok, so in my experience, we normally derive e, and the exponential function by considering power series. In particular we define them and then a radius of convergence, and then we note that this particular power series happens to be everywhere convergent. It is a standard theorem in analysis the power series can be differentiated termwise, which gives us the standard identity d(e^x)/dx = e^x
From this we get e = exp(1) (which happily we know converges). Getting our standard laws are a little work in this, in particular we want
\Sigma \frac{(x+y)^n}{n!} = \Sigma \frac{(x)^n}{n!} \Sigma \frac{(y)^n}{n!}
There are a few ways of proving this (including just writing it out) but in my opinion the most slick way (so long as you have a couple of differentiation rules) is as follows:
Let F(x) = exp(a + b - x) * exp(x) , then F'(x) = exp(a + b - x)*exp(x) - exp(a + b - x)exp(x) = 0,
and so F(x) is constant.
But F(0) = exp(a + b), and F(b) = exp(a)*exp(b)
Done
The line where we state that derivative is 0 implies constant is non-trivial, but doesn't require too much in the way of tools.
I especially like this characterisation, as it follows over into the complex plane quite simply.
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