xkcd

by **pseudoidiot** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:54 pm UTC

by **Belial** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:59 pm UTC

Man, that thread is long. And old. And if I read it I'm going to have to disagree with like 10 people.

Whine.

by **Chewbaccawacca** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:53 pm UTC

Heh, I understand most of the points being made here (and even agree with a few to boot!) but honestly it all falls to the wayside once I start watching the trailers and sneek peeks *sigh*. I just fall in love with the franchise all over again. I don't know if it's because I'm stupid for marketing (I hope I'm not) or if I'm just a sucker for Epic Space Operas (I know I am). All issues with past incarnations aside I'm really looking forward to ME3.

Hell, I'm even excited to give the multiplayer/co-op a try. Singleplayer games and stories are definitely my bread and butter and the true reason I play video games. But ever since Super Contra and Raiden Fighters I've always had a soft spot for multiplayer and it's nicer cousin co-op.

So I guess I'm wondering, is there anything in particular that anyone is looking forward to?

by **Belial** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:13 pm UTC

Everything in the new game looks so. goddamn. pretty.

I'm looking forward to getting answers as to the relevance of three big choices from the first two games:

1) saving/destroying the rachni
2) destroying/overwriting the heretic geth
3) keeping/destroying the collector base.

by **Will** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:23 pm UTC

I'm looking forward to finding out what my decisions were when I played ME1 like three god damn years ago.

I don't have a great long-term memory.

by **pseudoidiot** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:30 pm UTC

by **Chewbaccawacca** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Everything in the new game looks so. goddamn. pretty.

I'm looking forward to getting answers as to the relevance of three big choices from the first two games:

Yeah! I remember thinking that back when ME2 was coming out and I agree for 3 as well! I am excited for how smooth Shephard moves too, like mercury on glass.

Likewise I am excited for all the desicions made, since this is Shephards last chapter I'm really hoping they find a way to at least mention all of the choices you've had, even things like being mean to Emily Wong and the like. Overall inconsequential but still cool.

by **skeptical scientist** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:18 pm UTC

Hmm, I no longer have the computer I played ME1/2 on. I'm going to have to install the games and replay them on my current computer if I want ME3 to reflect the decisions I made in 1/2, aren't I?

Ghostbear wrote:
skeptical scientist wrote:What? Only to the extent that everything on a computer is coded by numbers. The goal of Mass Effect is to save the galaxy from the Reapers, a goal which has nothing to do with what number is displayed after "level" on your character screen.

That's the goal of the story, but why are you playing that game, how do you reach that goal? All of your prior decisions are going to be flagged as numbers somewhere, just the same as your stats and equipment.

Yes, I already agreed that everything on a computer is coded by numbers. But you think, "I'm going to Omega to rescue Garrus," rather than, say, "I'm going to Omega to set the 'has rescued Garrus' bitflag in my save file to 1." There's an important intensional difference. On the other hand, there's no way to think about your character level other than a particular number on your character sheet.*

*The same goes for resources. Now that I'm thinking about it this way, next time I play ME2, I'm totally just hexediting the save file any time I need more resources. Scanning planets for element zero was so boring.

by **Chewbaccawacca** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:35 pm UTC

skeptical scientist wrote:Hmm, I no longer have the computer I played ME1/2 on. I'm going to have to install the games and replay them on my current computer if I want ME3 to reflect the decisions I made in 1/2, aren't I?

That's what I'm doing, though I've heard they're going to incorporate a "previously on Mass Effect" where you select the choices you would've made from the other games.

Kinda like the thing at the begining of Dead Space 2 only more advanced.

by **Belial** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:36 pm UTC

skeptical scientist wrote:Hmm, I no longer have the computer I played ME1/2 on. I'm going to have to install the games and replay them on my current computer if I want ME3 to reflect the decisions I made in 1/2, aren't I?

You can skip ME1, at least. There was a piece of late released DLC (came out around the time Arrival did) that lets you quickly make all the flagged decisions from 1 and create a custom save file with which to start 2.

by **Ghostbear** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:48 pm UTC

Belial wrote:The color scheme was far and away the most noticeable aspect of any armor set.

The point was that the color scheme had far less of an ability to make your character look "like an asshole" than the ME2 armor options. Worst case in ME1 was you had a weird color that looked stupid. Worst case in ME2, you had a weird eye visor with the rest of your armor covered in obnoxious blinking lights (or you were a walking advertisement for another Bioware game, depending on which you view as worse).

Belial wrote:I'm sure there's a DA thread around here somewhere where I can strenuously disagree with you on this point.

Feel free! I'm curious as to why you disagree.

Chewbaccawacca wrote:Heh, I understand most of the points being made here (and even agree with a few to boot!) but honestly it all falls to the wayside once I start watching the trailers and sneek peeks *sigh*. I just fall in love with the franchise all over again. I don't know if it's because I'm stupid for marketing (I hope I'm not) or if I'm just a sucker for Epic Space Operas (I know I am).

I think all it means is that the issues that you agree with aren't significant enough to make you not expect to enjoy the game!

skeptical scientist wrote:Yes, I already agreed that everything on a computer is coded by numbers. But you think, "I'm going to Omega to rescue Garrus," rather than, say, "I'm going to Omega to set the 'has rescued Garrus' bitflag in my save file to 1." There's an important intensional difference. On the other hand, there's no way to think about your character level other than a particular number on your character sheet.

And the point of that was to highlight that just because something is represented by a number doesn't mean it doesn't have some other goal or purpose. You can say a level is "just a number" just the same as I can say that Garrus being rescued is "just a number". What if I see my level as a representation of how powerful I am, of my ability to influence the world, a summation of my experiences and capabilities? Is that not valid because the easiest way to represent it is as a number?

skeptical scientist wrote:The same goes for resources. Now that I'm thinking about it this way, next time I play ME2, I'm totally just hexediting the save file any time I need more resources. Scanning planets for element zero was so boring.

If you have more fun doing it that way, then why not?

by **Belial** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:26 am UTC

Ghostbear wrote:The point was that the color scheme had far less of an ability to make your character look "like an asshole" than the ME2 armor options. Worst case in ME1 was you had a weird color that looked stupid. Worst case in ME2, you had a weird eye visor with the rest of your armor covered in obnoxious blinking lights (or you were a walking advertisement for another Bioware game, depending on which you view as worse).

I never used any of the tie-in armor and I never switched from the default-with-add-ons. And the cool thing about that was that that wasn't a crippling choice. So I could spend the entire game in my cool gunmetal hardsuit, and the only thing that changed was what I had attached to it. Which also draws attention away from armor as a mechanic which, honestly, thank gods. There's a reason people stopped really wearing it in the middle ages. Against modern military hardware it doesn't count for much. The only thing that should really matter on a hardsuit are muscular assistance servos and kinetic barriers.

Also, the visors were awesome. Hush.

Ghostbear wrote:Feel free! I'm curious as to why you disagree.

Very well. I will edit my current post in the thread.

by **Will** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:40 am UTC

Hey, the Dragon Age armor in ME2 was *awesome*

by **Chewbaccawacca** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:44 am UTC

Will wrote:Hey, the Dragon Age armor in ME2 was *awesome*

Heh, are you planning on using the Kingdoms of Amulur armor in ME3?

by **Ghostbear** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:59 am UTC

Belial wrote:I never used any of the tie-in armor and I never switched from the default-with-add-ons. And the cool thing about that was that that wasn't a crippling choice.

I don't disagree with that, but they could have made it like that without removing the ability to noticeably upgrade your armor. What if your armor always had whatever look you choose based on the options, and you just upgraded with with "Turian experimental barrier modulators" or whatever? They could have given it a couple different slots (computer to handle the shield activation, power supply for recharge rate, capacitors for shield strength, etc.), and let you upgrade or replace all the internal parts to it while still allowing that consistent visual style. If they tried, they could have even made it make sense with the research system they had. I don't view it as a choice of either or; it's more than possible to have that customization and progression and have good aesthetics.

by **Belial** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:04 am UTC

They...did do that. The various add-ons upgraded shields, armor, speed, etcetera.

by **Ghostbear** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:52 am UTC

Belial wrote:They...did do that. The various add-ons upgraded shields, armor, speed, etcetera.

In practically meaningless ways; most of those upgrades were a 5% boost, a handful of them were 10%, while your starting armor gave a 3% boost. That doesn't give progression, that just gives purely marginal upgrade options.

by **Belial** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:05 am UTC

It was enough so that you could customize your armor layout and then leave it be. I didn't really feel like what Mass Effect was missing was a D&D-style loot-treadmill.

by **Chewbaccawacca** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:17 am UTC

Truthfully I was a little bummed. I happen to be kinda fond of the loot-treadmills in some games. Granted it doesn't have to be a Borderlands with millions of incarnations of weapons and armour. But I would have liked at least a few more options over the course of the game. I'm hoping that in ME3 they strike a balance between form, function, and frivolous excess. More variety than ME2, but not a slog of random Tsunami IV, Tsunami V, Tsunami VI like in ME.

by **Ghostbear** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:21 am UTC

Belial wrote:It was enough so that you could customize your armor layout and then leave it be. I didn't really feel like what Mass Effect was missing was a D&D-style loot-treadmill.

That wasn't the question though, it was if the armor system in ME2 was sufficient to satisfy that loot-treadmill for people that enjoy it. I did not think it was.

by **omgryebread** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:45 am UTC

Chewbaccawacca wrote:Truthfully I was a little bummed. I happen to be kinda fond of the loot-treadmills in some games. Granted it doesn't have to be a Borderlands with millions of incarnations of weapons and armour. But I would have liked at least a few more options over the course of the game. I'm hoping that in ME3 they strike a balance between form, function, and frivolous excess. More variety than ME2, but not a slog of random Tsunami IV, Tsunami V, Tsunami VI like in ME.

That's my problem with ME1's inventory though. Despite having more stuff, it didn't have more options. A gun was either better that what you had or it wasn't. Sure, there were a few stat tradeoffs you could make, but it was so minor. The difference between two guns of the same type in ME2 was huge.

Replaying ME2, remembering how awesome Martin Sheen playing a jerk is. I kinda hope there's an option in ME3 for even paragon Shepards to have him as an uneasy ally, because fighting President Bartlett would be hard for me to do.

by **Xanthir** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:50 am UTC

The only thing that pissed me off about ME2 armor that ME1 got right was that helmets stopped being visually optional. I didn't *want* a visor, but I wanted *some* bonus, and the visor blocked my Shep's face the least of anything.

ME1 got this right - the helmet did nothing anyway, so turning it off had no ill effects. DA got this right - you could see a cool helmet while you were running around, but it was automatically removed during dialog. I don't know why/how ME2 got this so wrong.

Also, Gee Willikers, the dragon age armor in ME was all one giant piece. ;_; Come on, gimme mix-and-match pieces, SO I CAN JUST IGNORE THE HELMET AND USE THE REST OF THE AWESOME-LOOKING ARMOR.

by **An Enraged Platypus** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:52 am UTC

Chewbaccawacca wrote:Heh, I understand most of the points being made here (and even agree with a few to boot!) but honestly it all falls to the wayside once I start watching the trailers and sneek peeks *sigh*. I just fall in love with the franchise all over again. I don't know if it's because I'm stupid for marketing (I hope I'm not) or if I'm just a sucker for Epic Space Operas (I know I am). All issues with past incarnations aside I'm really looking forward to ME3.

This, two-and-seventy times this. I think I might have to do a ME1 / ME2 marathon before ME3 launches, just so I know what's going on and what my decisions were. I have my ME1/2 save file on a USB stick somewhere but it's been years.

by **Enokh** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:21 pm UTC

I keep wanting to do a play-through of both games before the Third one comes out, but I remember playing ME1 after ME2 and it just feeling horrible.

by **ArgonV** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:42 pm UTC

I dunno, I like the ME1 mechanics for guns, with the upgrades and whatnot. By the end, I had an assault rifle I could fire continuously for minutes, as well as a shotgun that would overheat after one shot, but would take down a big red Geth (Destroyer?) in one shot. You couldn't modify that much in ME2 and I thought that was too bad. I hope the weapons modifying aspect of ME3 gives you more freedom in that respect, without a cluttering inventory. I also liked the slight armor modifications you could make for benefits, but it would've been nice if you could've modded your team members for a bit as well.

I'm going to do a complete and thorough playthrough of ME1 and ME2 before 3 comes out, but I'm kinda conflicted. In my first playthrough of ME1, I let Joker take the shot, despite the Council, because that was the sensible thing to do. But that leads to the same outcome as 'let the Council die' in ME2, and I don't like that, to be honest. My second playthrough, I saved the Council, and I preferred that attitude in ME2...

by **Obby** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:14 pm UTC

Er, moving back in the conversation a bit here, I apologize. But, someone was talking about losing their computer that had their ME1 and ME2 saves?

Check these sites out: Mass Effect save game files and Mass Effect 2 save game files. Personally, I've never used these sites because I prefer just to play through the games again. But, it's still nice to know they exist.

by **Belial** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:34 pm UTC

ArgonV wrote:I dunno, I like the ME1 mechanics for guns, with the upgrades and whatnot. By the end, I had an assault rifle I could fire continuously for minutes, as well as a shotgun that would overheat after one shot, but would take down a big red Geth (Destroyer?) in one shot. You couldn't modify that much in ME2 and I thought that was too bad. I hope the weapons modifying aspect of ME3 gives you more freedom in that respect, without a cluttering inventory. I also liked the slight armor modifications you could make for benefits, but it would've been nice if you could've modded your team members for a bit as well.

These suggestions I like a bit more. Some ability to modify the weapons, while still only having one or two guns of each type that, at baseline, play very differently (instead of 400 of the same gun with only statistical differences). And the ability to tinker with everyone else's armor to the same degree (and no further) that you could shepard's.

I'm not missing either of these things, but I would certainly play with them if they showed up.

by **pseudoidiot** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:39 pm UTC

Commander Shephard is still alive.

by **Belial** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:05 pm UTC

Why on earth would they use maleshep for that?

by **SecondTalon** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:17 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Why on earth would anyone use maleshep for anything?

Yeah... I just.. took a moment to fix that... pretty sure it's what you meant to say.

by **pseudoidiot** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:28 pm UTC

Eh, I 've never understood the maleshep hate. I played ME1 and ME2 as maleshep and I had a plenty good time. I've seen some playthrough videos as femshep and.. I don't get it. I mean, personal preference is one thing, but I don't get the near-universal dislike.

by **Belial** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:39 pm UTC

It's not really near universal, I think only something like 20% of players play femshep.

I just find his voice incred-annoying.

But then, I tend to play female in bioware games anyway if only to force them to pass the bechdel test whether they want to or not.

by **SecondTalon** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:41 pm UTC

When I started ME1, my options were Brosef, Captain of the Broball Team back in Brotown High in '86 (Go Bros! Beat State!), or some generic nothing really noteworthy woman who's defining physical appearance was that she was a woman.

I... I have no problems with a game allowing you to make someone who looks like they'd be more comfortable crushing beer cans on their forehead than they would with anything more complicated than a manual transmission in a car... I just would rather that not be the first thing I'm greeted with when selecting who I want to be.

by **Vaniver** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:27 am UTC

Maleshep looks... pretty normal for a soldier? I mean, if you came across him on a college campus it would give the bro feel, but he's in the military.

by **Lucrece** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:35 am UTC

I love maleshep. He's no Jaws from Gears of War, which is a plus for me. Gruff but reasonable is my preference. Way prefer old femshep to the new one -- the new one took a turn for the worse, smooth skinned Natalie Portman. Why can't a woman get to show some fucking age? It's as if there was a rule for no women beyond 23 can be allowed depiction as female protagonists.

I want more Sigourney Weavers.

by **skeptical scientist** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:49 am UTC

I tend to play female characters (given the option) in most RPGs. But for the bioware RPGs, because of the romances I usually play male characters. I actually like Maleshep, especially in ME2.

by **omgryebread** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:17 am UTC

I usually play female characters anyway, but god Maleshep's voice acting is just really grating to me. Can't make it through a playthrough with him.

by **Belial** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:04 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:Maleshep looks... pretty normal for a soldier? I mean, if you came across him on a college campus it would give the bro feel, but he's in the military.

Maybe that's the problem. It's possible he reminds me on some level of my entire immediate family.

by **SecondTalon** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:18 pm UTC

See, I was even looking at Kaiden this morning who.. looks like a guy. If Kaiden was the first thing to greet me upon character creation, I probably wouldn't have such a "OH GOD NO" reaction.

by **maybeagnostic** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:47 pm UTC

Enokh wrote:I keep wanting to do a play-through of both games before the Third one comes out, but I remember playing ME1 after ME2 and it just feeling horrible.

I just started my second play-through and getting back to ME1 is downright painful. Inventory management almost made me quit the game last time but the story kept me going; now that I know the story I don't know if I can force myself to go through "Turn to omni-gel. Yes, I am sure." thousands of times. I tried never opening my inventory but eventually my weapons and armor were too weak and I had to switch them out which lead to 15 minutes of boredom while I liquefied all the accumulated chaff.

This time I am playing a renegade femshep soldier/infiltrator that intimidates people, eliminates the threat at all costs, and hates the Council- the opposite of my original character. The whole story feels quite different even if all the characters are saying and doing essentially the same things. The difference between being an engineer with a gun or a soldier with a sniper rifle? Negligible. Well, as a level 12 soldier I've had to put all my skill points in the assault rifle and sniper skills and I still miss half my sniper shots because the skill isn't high enough yet which is extremely annoying but... well, combat is the repetitive boring stuff I have to get through to continue the story. This is all my roundabout way of saying I actually enjoyed the fights in ME2 and I never missed the inventory and the old skill system or felt like removing them made the game any less of an RPG.

Customizing your armor in ME2 was awesome and I really hope they keep it in the next game. In ME1 I just ran into one of those absurd situations where I found a much better armor for Wrex except it's light blue and sunshine yellow. Even ignoring how terrible and absurd of a color scheme this is in the first place, I am trying to imagine an in game reason why someone made krogan-specific battle armor and decided clashing bright happy colors was the way to go... wow. Wrex dies too fast without his new heavy armor though so I have to have him wear it. I've decided that I am just putting him through some kind of hazing ritual for the newest team member and he's constantly giving me murderous looks while taking his frustrations out on the people we fight.

I was really confused by all the comments about maleshep and then I remembered I completely changed his appearance at the start of ME1. Doesn't anyone find femshep's voice kind of listless in ME1? Some of her threats come out really flat and unconvincing.

Who is online