xkcd

by **Angua** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:47 pm UTC

You should probably have waited until later in the day to push it though. At least we could have got something useful before the day ended.

by **Azrael001** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:35 pm UTC

I'm an inventor. I made it. I just wasn't told what it was.

Today I have a cloaking device that I can give to someone else to protect them from any actions. I can't use it myself.

by **ForAllOfThis** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:51 pm UTC

We should vote on who gets it. That way town majority will end up deciding.

Seeing as I wasn't recruited last night and the only other confirmed town is Mal, then I'm feeling a little suspicous of Chandani right now.

I'm going need to look more into the reaver cult spec argument from D1 to see if there's anything there worthwhile.

by **ForAllOfThis** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:54 pm UTC

EBWOP: Actually, publically deciding who gets it is a stupid idea. You should give it to somone you think is going to be targetted and not tell anyone. If its publicly announced, then scum will know where to avoid. Unless it has to be publically announced? In which case voting on it is the best idea again.

by **roband** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:25 pm UTC

Unless that's a fake claim. I'll say again - pressing the button and ending day early is a scummy move.

Alongside an unnecessary claim (what do you gain by telling us that someone is going to be protected tonight?), Az looks suspicious to me.

by **Sungura** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:53 pm UTC

I think you can all see it's clear now revers are a cult. And I maintain my hatred of cults, they are only Bad News, especially something like Revers which are a likely SK type cult. My guess the power balance lies somewhere with you can make a kill, or do a recruit, per night (not both). Begining game they're going to want to get numbers and recruit and later start killing.

I resume my attack on mrface who I am still quite sure is a rever. I dont know about the rest of you, but a sk cult is not something I want around.

vote: mrface

For same reasons as day 1.

As to roband pushing about why I am still alive, we can wifom that to infinity and it tells nothing. It's such a mantra of "scum kill amy n1" at this point that by not doing it they are better off. This has proven in a few recent past games I've been in. If anything I find it more scummy to try and push people to vote someone soley based on old meta that is well known by all. It's like the old addage of "third to vote is scum" - once pointed out, it's useless because they use it to their advantage. If MaJ had never done that report it would still work, but he did, so it doesn't.

by **mrface** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:21 pm UTC

I agree that it does seem certain that the Reavers have at least a limited culting ability, now.

Assuming Azrael didn't know what the button truly did, their actions are basically neutral. However, they _do_ know what their new invention does, which makes it more likely that they knew what the button did. Which is more on the scummy side.

FAOT is right. With a cult, it's definitely possible that either FAOT or Chandani have been culted. They've done nothing yet to make me suspicious of them, but they are no longer confirmed towny in my book.

by **ForAllOfThis** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:41 pm UTC

Mrface has a point. how do you know what your invention does today but didn't yesterday?

by **roband** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:23 pm UTC

Amy - it's not based solely on you being alive. I thought it was clear that I meant my original reasons for voting (from day 1 when you hadn't even had the chance to be nightkilled yet, WIFOM or not) were still valid, PLUS you were still alive.

I agree that mrface makes a good point and echo FAOT's question...

by **Mostlynormal** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:35 pm UTC

I agree with mrface's point, echo FAOT's question, and affirm roband's agreement.

It seems silly that Az just went and pressed it without any discussion. No "hey guys, heads up, I find this big red button last night, should I press it?", just "That should be fun." Even without knowing specifically that it ended the day, there was no time pressure and plenty to discuss without resorting to the unknown effects of some suspicious button. Though I'd like to hear his answer, I think it's enough to

Vote: Azrael

by **Azrael001** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:49 am UTC

I misread my power and tried to decide what my invention would do. Thus, instead of sending a name, I sent a description. The mods were kind enough to allow me to resubmit right at dawn, after I realized my mistake. I don't know why I wasn't told what the button would do, but I assume that that has something to do with it.

The reason that I am claiming now is that I am trying to do something to fix the debacle that I made of day two. I said that I found it rather than made it yesterday because I wasn't ready to claim yet. I pressed the button because I am terminally curious, and wanted to push the Big Red Button.

by **BoomFrog** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:38 am UTC

It's not night? I can actually play now? Yeay!

I'm going to post so hard you're going to do a double take and say, "Did he post twice?" and you'll be right because the next post is the one with real content. Working on it now.

by **b.i.o** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:15 am UTC

ForAllOfThis wrote:We should vote on who gets it. That way town majority will end up deciding.

Even if it wasn't obviously a bad decision because it'd be useless if the scum knew who was being targeted, decisions on what to do with town actions should not be made publicly: you're letting the scum have their say.

I think Az is probably town. He'd have to be playing exceptionally stupid scum to use that button on purpose, and he's a good mafia player.

by **Fire Brns** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:04 am UTC

I'm examining the last two votes to see if I can define people into their groups. (like clue) but even if I did I doubt the mod would let me share my findings. No luck yet...

Now I'm learning about scary.

by **mpolo** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:10 am UTC

I think that the mod isn't going to complain about anything you come up with through analysis of the votes. Oops late for class…

by **roband** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:02 am UTC

Fire Brns wrote:I'm examining the last two votes to see if I can define people into their groups. (like clue) but even if I did I doubt the mod would let me share my findings. No luck yet...

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Why would the mod not let you share your findings?

by **BoomFrog** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:26 am UTC

Spoiler:

1. Angua - Has avoided any strong opinions and went for a lurker vote. Voting a lurker isn't very helpful, and especially an unrepentent lurker such as GL. He always lurks so his lurking isn't a sign of scummyness. Her play here reminds me a lot of Lock, Stock, where she was just trying to survive by going after uninteresting targets. - Slightly scummy

2. Sungura - Has a reputation for being psychic and proved it with SecondShadow. Although it's not like she actually said he was Brook, just "someone who she had played with before." Still kinda impressive. Obsessed with proving herself right by lynching Mr. Face. If Mr. Face turns up Cult Leader I'll be very impressed. But there's other scum out there too, I'd like to hear who else you think is scum. Her avoiding other topics is scummy. - Slightly Scummy.

6. b.i.o - I agreed with his D1 vote on FOAT and would have been right there with him, ironic that he says it was not a sincere vote, however I've pulled the same tactic D1 as town to try and cause a ruckuss and get more reads from everyone. Altogether seems to be trying to actually help, and not worried about self preservation. Reminds me of Amy's Surprise. - Town as of D1

7. ForAllOfThis - Book - Town as of D1 - D3 content so far sounds to me like he wasn't recruited, so - slightly townie as of D3

8. roband - Aggressive and assertive as normal. Hard to get a read so far, unfortunately I know he is just as aggressive as scum. - Very Slightly Townie

9. mpolo - Thin non-committal analysis D1 and no strong opinions. This seems to be how he always plans unfortunately, but it's not helping town. - Slightly scummy.

10. mrface - Seems to be pushing for an easy lynch D1, going after lurker SecondShadow, and passive Angua. Also:

I agree that it does seem certain that the Reavers have at least a limited culting ability, now.

"Seem certain"? Why so timid with your assertion? Either River started the game as a Revear or they can recruit. The former is laughable so I'd say the latter is iron-clad. Your statement isn't false, but the wording pings me. - Slightly scummy.

11. Azrael001 - Pushed the big read button way too early and has been pretty flippant in his attitude since D1. Although, I honestly don't blame him too much about the button thing, I'd be curious too, and the only reason not to push it is if it ended the day, but there were lots of other things it could do. Still discussing it with town would have at least yielded a few reactions to evaluate. He is either Scummy or I just don't like his play style. He also hasn't really really tried to find scum. Also, Adacore's only two post in D2 included a defense of Azreal while calling him scummy, which seems like scum buddy trying to dissolve suspicion. Assuming Adacore was recruited N1, I find it likely that Azreal is a Reaver. However, that would require that his claim is false since I doubt there we're two recruits D1 and I doubt that there was a Reaver inventor.

The only town inventor would be the obvious Kaylee, so if you are Kaylee please explicitly claim it so a potential real Kaylee can counter claim. Otherwise I'll assuming your lying and the Reaver cult leader. If there is a Kaylee out there who is not Azreal please don't claim until he does. - Scummy unless Kaylee

13. TheSecondShadow - Little content, and a vote on b.i.o. that I don't like. Although he probably didn't read Amy's Surprise so he doesn't have that reference point for a metaread on b.i.o. - Slightly Scummy.

14. Chandani - I'd be suspicious except she is obviously Mal. - Town as of D1

15. Mostlynormal - Once again, he often says what I am thinking. An early vote on GoP means he's probably not Alliance. His vote on Azreal is in keeping with his style so nothing pops up as scummy so far. - Slightly Townie

Well, that doesn't look very good, more scummys then townies.

Townie: FOAT, Chandani, b.i.o., MostlyNormal, Roband.
Scummy: Angua, Amy (Sungura), Mpolo, Mr. Face, Azreal (unless Kaylee), TheSecondShadow.
Noobie: Fire Brns

So Az... Are you Kaylee?

Separated out to make sure Fire Brns notices my question:
16. Fire Brns -

I'm examining the last two votes to see if I can define people into their groups. (like clue) but even if I did I doubt the mod would let me share my findings. No luck yet...

You seem to be confused about some rules? As long as you haven't broken any rules you should be able to post anything you want. Which rule do you think prevents your from posting your "findings"?

by **mpolo** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:01 pm UTC

I tend to be non-commital on day one as town because I very seldom have solid pings. I have to learn to "be bold" and just accuse someone. I understand how this is frustrating for you, since you have exactly the opposite play style (slight exaggeration for effect here).

I think that you are correct that Kaylee is the only real possible town inventor role. It is quite weird that he knows exactly what one invention does and claims not to know what the other did. But it could be true. Azrael: what information did you send in to get the big red button?

by **Angua** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:12 pm UTC

mpolo wrote:I tend to be non-commital on day one as town because I very seldom have solid pings. I have to learn to "be bold" and just accuse someone. I understand how this is frustrating for you, since you have exactly the opposite play style (slight exaggeration for effect here).

This is pretty much me word for word.....

I think boomfrog gave me too much credit for my play style being on purpose in Lock, Stock

I'm trying to be better though and changing my playstyle to be more aggressive. At the moment I find Az the most suspicious, followed by FaoT for trying to suggest that we vote on who gets protection (though they did rescind that pretty quickly, so that's a point in their favour). I also don't think Amy has the right idea with mrface - they are new so may not really think about distinguishing mafia from cult (eg just use the term mafia as a catch all for main scum faction) and they don't really add all that much info one what little people had said about revers. The fact that Amy is still going for it seems a bit weird, but I guess if they've got such a strong gut instinct, maybe they don't generally change focus until they're satisfied (I don't really know Amy's meta that well). Anyway - the bit about Amy is more my suspicions against being told I should trust someone - I realise I could be completely wrong here. If I had to vote now, it would be for Az, but we have a while. I also have 3 essays to get done in the next 4 days, so I won't be spending a lot of time doing long analyses. I really only re-looked up Amy's reasoning because she brought it up.

by **Fire Brns** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:34 pm UTC

I doubted that went with the spirit of the game. Ex: these four are town, these three are mafia, and these 2 are cult ect...

Anyway, the first vote as mpolo said should be skewed.
I was going by people voting not voted for. I tried one of those corkboard, pictures and string systems to see if I could find out who is voting as a block.

In honor of this being a Firefly game anyone speak a lick of Chinese?
这今天是高兴聚会。

by **Angua** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:35 pm UTC

How on earth do you generally think we end up deciding who to vote for in the later stages of the game?

by **Fire Brns** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:40 pm UTC

Well obviously but i doubt that the results are shared to everyone because then those results could be compiled and soften the margins of error. But then again my old mafia games seemed a lot different than this; a bit fast paced.

by **ForAllOfThis** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:53 pm UTC

@Bio/Angua: I assumed the target had to be made public, like the Button had to be publically pushed. Only realised that assumption might be wrong after (I wasn't thinking / had a blonde moment).

@Az: You've claimed inventor when we have a cult. You've claimed doctor for today without knowing whether there's a roleblock/redirect. Seems pretty careless to me.

by **Sungura** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:16 pm UTC

At this point, when it is clear we have a rever cult that is converting people actively, I dont think we can take any claim for face value. I mean, not even River was un-cultable and of anyone she would make the most sense to give that power. Even those who have claimed town roles in past days we can't know if they are now.

As for Azrael and the big red button, I am inclined to believe his claim of inventor and every bit of that sort of thing - however - I am not inclined to believe anything about his allegiance.

Someone asked me to comment on what I thought of others as well. So I shall. I think SecondShadow is anti-town. I can't tell exactly what at this point although I wonder if it is something like Jubal. Brook (ss) plays a good town, as pure scum he's usually somewhat aggressive (in a different form than as town though) with eventually in later days more obvious tells. However...I've never seen him play a good indy role (no offense!) and he usually is quiet and silenter in such roles much as he has been this entire game. Currently I am more concerned about revers (for reasons prior stated) but I do think SecondShadow/Brook warrants some attention.

FireBrns is bothering me a lot but I have nothing meta-wise (which is how I play best) to base anything off of for them. I find their posts hard to follow and illogical and lacking any beneficial information and scummy in the sense that they seem to not want to share what they are thinking. It's all very cryptic and at minimum annoying, and at most, scummy.

by **Azrael001** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:48 pm UTC

I am in fact Kaylee. I am being the one shot doctor claim is not something that is useful for the scum to know as they don't know who I'm going to target, and have got to deal with WIFOM knowing that it exists in addition to any other protection roles. I will admit to being careless. I have a pretty reckless play style, which sometimes even works. I admit that I've made some mistakes, but I haven't played any games in almost a year, so there is that.

by **roband** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:12 pm UTC

And now you made yourself a perfect target for the recruit. Which means we lynch you tomorrow. Which means they won't recruit you. Which means we'll lynch a townie. Which means we shouldn't lynch you. Which means they WILL recruit you. Which means we should lynch you...

Congrats. Reckless, and the wrong move IMO.

by **Azrael001** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:24 pm UTC

My power isn't particularly powerful. Especially because of it's randomness. This may help insulate me from conversion. By your argument we should be lynching Mal today.

by **mpolo** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:30 pm UTC

Az is essentially the third confirmed town (after Shepherd Book and Mal), so isn't in that much additional danger of being converted compared with anyone else. Book and Mal would presumably have a higher chance of having been converted. We've heard from Book, but not from Mal thus far.

by **TheSecondShadow** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:02 am UTC

Oh its day? Shows me for going to sleep early. In class now, I'll make a larger post later. That said, we need to focus on finding the first reaver. Hopefully they have the only recruit and killing them will stop recruiting. Bonus: they've been reaver the longest so there will hopefully be the most scum tells.

by **TheSecondShadow** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:19 am UTC

mpolo wrote:Az is essentially the third confirmed town (after Shepherd Book and Mal), so isn't in that much additional danger of being converted compared with anyone else. Book and Mal would presumably have a higher chance of having been converted. We've heard from Book, but not from Mal thus far.

I know I said bigger post later but I have to say, Az is not confirmed townie. Even if you believe Az was town D2, that action could have easily attracted a recruit.

by **_infina_** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:31 am UTC

This has come up as a question via PM:

Q: Can we massclaim?

A: It is not advisable, as there is info available to those that need it to make it counter-productive.

by **BoomFrog** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:36 am UTC

Fire Brns wrote:I doubted that went with the spirit of the game. Ex: these four are town, these three are mafia, and these 2 are cult ect...

Anyway, the first vote as mpolo said should be skewed.
I was going by people voting not voted for. I tried one of those corkboard, pictures and string systems to see if I could find out who is voting as a block.

That is actually the entire point of the game. If you can draw any conclusions from people's voting patterns D1 you should tell us about them, and moreover explain your reasoning. If you draw good conclusions it will increase our confidence that you are town and help us catch scum. If you continue to post so little then we will be forced to assume your scum trying to avoid notice.

In honor of this being a Firefly game anyone speak a lick of Chinese?
这今天是高兴聚会。

My coworker translated that for me as, "It is very happy that we can get together."

Anyway, seeing as Az is indeed (probably) Kaylee, he may be recruited but he is not the original Reaver. Also, I agree with Angua and Mpolo, as much as I'd like to hold them accountable for their timid posting, it is their normal style so I can only really list them as neutral. That leaves, SecondShadow, Mr. Face, Amy, and potentially Fire Brns. The Mr. Face/Amy conflict is interesting, I'm really not sure what to make of it still. Ignoring that though, I think I still find Mr. Face scummier, although I might be persuaded to change to one of the other three.

Vote
Mr. Face

Ninja'd: That is interesting... I'd guess Allience only has to kill specific targets, or perhaps has some one-shots that they need to use on someone specific.

Again:

Will we be notified if all of one faction is eliminated?

by **BoomFrog** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:38 am UTC

Oh, right...

Vote: Mr. Face

Will we be notified if all of one faction is eliminated?

by **roband** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:53 am UTC

I'm just gonna specify something here... When you all follow Sungura and lynch MrFace - if he turns out to be alliance/reaver, please don't go all "oh Amy, we love you, let's follow you til the end of the 'verse" without thinking.
She could still well be reaver/alliance - this is something we need to take into consideration. I maintain that her vote on D1 was based on very little.

by **mpolo** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:44 am UTC

Above all, I'd like to hear from mrface, because Amy's attack on him was never very strong, and she is sticking to it without really providing anything more than "speculated a little too much about the reavers". I suppose that is partly because of mrface's not having posted all that much.

In addition to _infina_'s statement that a mass-claim is inadvisable, there remains the fact that because of the recruitment mechanism, even if there were nothing else against a mass-claim, we still wouldn't know who is town after the claim occurs.

by **_infina_** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:21 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Will we be notified if all of one faction is eliminated?

No.

by **mrface** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:33 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:10. mrface - Seems to be pushing for an easy lynch D1, going after lurker SecondShadow, and passive Angua. Also:
I agree that it does seem certain that the Reavers have at least a limited culting ability, now.
"Seem certain"? Why so timid with your assertion? Either River started the game as a Revear or they can recruit. The former is laughable so I'd say the latter is iron-clad. Your statement isn't false, but the wording pings me. - Slightly scummy.

I dropped my support of a SecondShadow lynch once it became clear they were actually lurking and my vote on Angua was for being an active lurker, not a passive one--something that is much more scummy. As for my wording, I hate being definite when nothing is certain. There is always the possibility that Reaver kills look like they've been Reavers all along, or something similar. However, a cult is by far the most likely.

Other than that, I've already defended myself against Amy, and BoomFrog doesn't seem to have a whole lot more against me then any of the others labeled 'slightly scummy.' There's not a whole lot more that I can say.

by **Chandani** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:08 pm UTC

Hi.
Quick post right now, just to make sure I have some of my thoughts down on what's happening.
First..What happens in case of a tie?

Now... onto the other stuff.
I don't get Amy's push on mr.face. Hell, it would even make sense if cult recruited Amy first because of her whole townie cred. I haven't seen this pointed out, so I thought I might mention it.
Secondly, it could be possible that Adacore was recruited because he was lurking. Town would have a hard time finding a switch in behavior if the cult person never posted. Or, cult just might be picking people up randomly to recruit.
I saw some people thinking the kill was Alliance... it still could be a vig kill, though. Not sure how many alliance characters there are, but it kind of seems like we killed them... unless there could be anothe operative (flavour wise)?

... Maybe reavers can recruit and kill? I don't think it's that possible, but it would fit in flavour wise, and since we didn't have a kill last night, it could be an option (like they can choose, or alternate nights, or something like that).

@mass claim: Well, Adacore could have claimed River Tam and everyone would have been 'Yay! River!' and believed him even though he was culted. There's that as well.

by **_infina_** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:06 pm UTC

Chandani wrote:What happens in case of a tie?

Names are put into random.org list and a button is hit. Person on top gets lynched.

by **Fire Brns** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:09 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
Fire Brns wrote:
In honor of this being a Firefly game anyone speak a lick of Chinese?
这今天是高兴聚会。

My coworker translated that for me as, "It is very happy that we can get together."

More like: "this is a happy party today."

Also scum spoke with a really english accent (Badger) or what was Niska, Ukranian? Therefore I can't be scum. Of course now the reavers will kill me, rape me, and wear my skin as clothing.

And amy, Are we sure she isn't scum? I don't know her personality but from the wording and frequency it seems like a well planned deflection. Unlike me who making this post seems like a poor deflection and will probably get me lynched within two days.

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