Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

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Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby chiisanatantei » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:34 pm UTC

Chocolate is poison to many animals, including birds, so would it also kill velociraptors?
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby Charlie! » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:43 pm UTC

chiisanatantei wrote:Chocolate is poison to many animals, including birds, so would it also kill velociraptors?

Worth a shot :D
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby Diadem » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:58 am UTC

Yes. Even in small quantities, chocolate is quite fatal for a velociraptor. In fact chocolate is such a good velociraptor defence that you need not worry about securing your windows or doors.

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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby poxic » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:14 am UTC

According to one veterinarian's website, theobromine has been "known to affect or kill" house pets, including reptiles.

If the toxicity level is similar for reptiles as for dogs, then it will take about 0.8 ounce of milk chocolate (0.1 ounce of unsweetened) per pound of the animal's weight. Wikipedia states that velociraptors weighed up to 15 kg or 33 lbs. So you could conceivably defend against velociraptors with a security system that forced them to consume at least 1.65 lbs of milk chocolate, or 3.3 ounces of unsweetened (baking) chocolate.

Sounds like you're better off going with the unsweetened chocolate defense. Perhaps your security system can include snack-sized critters laid out as bait, booby-trapped with baking chocolate (up to 8 ounces, to be safe). You'll want the chocolate to be powdered or otherwise prepared for fast digestion, as incapacitation may take hours to develop.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby mr-mitch » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:31 am UTC

Chocolate also kills humans, but you need to consume about 10kg.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby UniqueScreenname » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:12 am UTC

poxic wrote:According to one veterinarian's website, theobromine has been "known to affect or kill" house pets, including reptiles.

Please don't let anyone in my house learn this. I really don't want them to kill my snake.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby chiisanatantei » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:05 am UTC

poxic wrote:According to one veterinarian's website, theobromine has been "known to affect or kill" house pets, including reptiles.

If the toxicity level is similar for reptiles as for dogs, then it will take about 0.8 ounce of milk chocolate (0.1 ounce of unsweetened) per pound of the animal's weight.Wikipedia states that velociraptors weighed up to 15 kg or 33 lbs. So you could conceivably defend against velociraptors with a security system that forced them to consume at least 1.65 lbs of milk chocolate, or 3.3 ounces of unsweetened (baking) chocolate.

Sounds like you're better off going with the unsweetened chocolate defense. Perhaps your security system can include snack-sized critters laid out as bait, booby-trapped with baking chocolate (up to 8 ounces, to be safe). You'll want the chocolate to be powdered or otherwise prepared for fast digestion, as incapacitation may take hours to develop.


Wouldn't you want the toxicity level for birds? Velociraptors are most similar to modern birds, right? I actually heard somewhere that scientists just proved that velociraptors had feathers. It's probably just a really funny rumor, but I like believing it, so I haven't looked it up. XP

Also, 85% dark chocolate (what I eat) should be a pretty good defense then. Provided I figure out a good way to make them eat it. Plus, I would have to make sure they all eat it within a short period of each other, or else they might figure me out...
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby yurell » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:18 am UTC

chiisanatantei wrote:Wouldn't you want the toxicity level for birds? Velociraptors are most similar to modern birds, right? I actually heard somewhere that scientists just proved that velociraptors had feathers. It's probably just a really funny rumor, but I like believing it, so I haven't looked it up. XP


Confirmation for you.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby thoughtfully » Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:35 am UTC

All this talk of feathered raptors makes me think of these birds, second heaviest to ostriches, with a five inch talon on their middle toes, and a mean reputation, although there's only one documented human fatality (guess who started the fight). Still, if I were a mad scientist in that part of the world, I'd have some of these in my menagerie, if not a battle-ready army of them :)

Oh, and if the Wikipedia article is to be believed, they can run at 30 mph.. through dense rainforest! :)

Not really carnivorous, though. Diet of mostly fruit, with the occasional frog/snake/rodent.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:12 pm UTC

UniqueScreenname wrote:Please don't let anyone in my house learn this. I really don't want them to kill my snake.
If they want to kill your snake, I'm pretty sure there are plenty of ways that don't involve chocolate.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby Qaanol » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:31 pm UTC

Okay, so here’s what we’re going to do. Obviously we can’t guarantee a raptor is going to eat any given chocolate-laced bait prior to killing humans. Therefore, we need to think on a more systemic scale. Here’s the plan.

Everybody has to eat as much chocolate as they can every day. That way everytime a raptor eats a human, it ends up ingesting a significant amount of chocolate. Any given raptor will only be able to eat a small number of people before it succumbs to chocolate overdose. This greatly limits the net danger of raptor attacks.

If we all work together, we’ll all be better protected against raptors. So fill up on chocolate daily. Do it for the human species. Help save everyone from the raptors.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby userxp » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:17 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
UniqueScreenname wrote:Please don't let anyone in my house learn this. I really don't want them to kill my snake.
If they want to kill your snake, I'm pretty sure there are plenty of ways that don't involve chocolate.

Similarly, I'm sure there are much better ways to kill a velociraptor too.

Opera wants me to change velociraptor to velocipede. I wonder if you could outrun a velociraptor with a velocipede.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby Jumble » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:35 pm UTC

chiisanatantei wrote:Chocolate is poison to many animals, including birds, so would it also kill velociraptors?

I'm afraid my first reaction was that if you mould it into bullet shapes of a suitable calibre, freeze it and then mount it on enough live cartridges I'm sure chocolate will be lethal to velociraptors (and pretty much any other organic species).
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby Shivahn » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:50 am UTC

userxp wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:
UniqueScreenname wrote:Please don't let anyone in my house learn this. I really don't want them to kill my snake.
If they want to kill your snake, I'm pretty sure there are plenty of ways that don't involve chocolate.

Similarly, I'm sure there are much better ways to kill a velociraptor too.

Given that velociraptors probably weighed about thirty pounds, punching one really hard would probably kill it.

But that is not nearly as tricky as chocolate so I don't recommend it.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby Sockmonkey » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:52 am UTC

chiisanatantei wrote:Chocolate is poison to many animals, including birds, so would it also kill velociraptors?

Best first post ever. At least for this forum. :lol:
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby poxic » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:59 am UTC

chiisanatantei wrote:Wouldn't you want the toxicity level for birds?

That was harder to find online. Various sources seem to suggest that birds are more susceptible due to lower body weight, not because of being a different sort of animal than a dog (or velociraptor). I stand by my original estimate that was based on the toxicity per pound of body weight of dogs, with a safety margin of at least 2x.

Also, I have heard that there could be more effective means of defense against velociraptors. I would look into these first.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby Gear » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:39 pm UTC

Qaanol wrote:Okay, so here’s what we’re going to do. Obviously we can’t guarantee a raptor is going to eat any given chocolate-laced bait prior to killing humans. Therefore, we need to think on a more systemic scale. Here’s the plan.

Everybody has to eat as much chocolate as they can every day. That way everytime a raptor eats a human, it ends up ingesting a significant amount of chocolate. Any given raptor will only be able to eat a small number of people before it succumbs to chocolate overdose. This greatly limits the net danger of raptor attacks.

If we all work together, we’ll all be better protected against raptors. So fill up on chocolate daily. Do it for the human species. Help save everyone from the raptors.


Also, eventually the velociraptors would eventually stop eating humans because of the poison, the same way that birds no longer (often) eat monarch butterflies. A possible problem however is the rate at which humans metabolize theobromine - I'm not sure if it would be possible to constantly eat enough chocolate to maintain raptor toxicity without killing oneself.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby userxp » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:07 pm UTC

Gear wrote:Also, eventually the velociraptors would eventually stop eating humans because of the poison, the same way that birds no longer (often) eat monarch butterflies.

Depends. If the velociraptors are intelligent enough to learn from experience, then yes they could stop eating humans in less than one generation. If they aren't, then the only other way their behaviour could change is by natural selection, which means that you should try to wipe them all in one generation - if you don't they're going to develop an immunity to theobromine and keep eating you sooner or later.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby Gear » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:53 pm UTC

userxp wrote:
Gear wrote:Also, eventually the velociraptors would eventually stop eating humans because of the poison, the same way that birds no longer (often) eat monarch butterflies.

Depends. If the velociraptors are intelligent enough to learn from experience, then yes they could stop eating humans in less than one generation. If they aren't, then the only other way their behaviour could change is by natural selection, which means that you should try to wipe them all in one generation - if you don't they're going to develop an immunity to theobromine and keep eating you sooner or later.


I thought that in larg-ish part, the threat of velociraptors was their relative intelligence? Therefore, they might well decide there are better/less deadly (and even in non-deadly levels, it might make them sick enough to be a deterrent) foodstuffs.

Also, it would depend on the rate of evolution - I don't know if they would evolve an avoidance instinct or a resistance first. I would guess at avoidance, but I don't actually know.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby OP Tipping » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:30 am UTC

Clever girl...
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby Minerva » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:13 am UTC

Oh, wait, I know!

If we inject the theobromine into ostrich eggs, and leave them laying around for the velociraptors to eat, that might just work!
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby Sockmonkey » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:30 pm UTC

Gear wrote:I thought that in larg-ish part, the threat of velociraptors was their relative intelligence? Therefore, they might well decide there are better/less deadly (and even in non-deadly levels, it might make them sick enough to be a deterrent) foodstuffs.
Sigh. Raptors weren't really chimp smart like they were in JP. More like ostrich-level smart on a good day.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:42 pm UTC

What are you even basing that on? Why ostrich smart and not, say, parrot or raven smart?
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby userxp » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:52 pm UTC

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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby Qaanol » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:09 pm UTC


Free chocolate to the first person who identifies the font in that PDF; payable next time we meet, you know, candy from strangers and all.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby Gear » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:40 pm UTC

Sockmonkey wrote:
Gear wrote:I thought that in larg-ish part, the threat of velociraptors was their relative intelligence? Therefore, they might well decide there are better/less deadly (and even in non-deadly levels, it might make them sick enough to be a deterrent) foodstuffs.
Sigh. Raptors weren't really chimp smart like they were in JP. More like ostrich-level smart on a good day.


How smart does something need to be to recognize and avoid foodstuffs that make them sick?

Does anyone have any ostriches they're willing to sacrifice for the sake of science?
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby Sockmonkey » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:24 am UTC

Funny thing is, I didn't even bother with Google since every paleontological article I've read in the past also says that.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby userxp » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:59 am UTC

Qaanol wrote:

Free chocolate to the first person who identifies the font in that PDF; payable next time we meet, you know, candy from strangers and all.

Berlin Sans Roman
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby Qaanol » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:53 pm UTC

Well done.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby chiisanatantei » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:30 pm UTC

Well, if birds are smart enough to avoid monarchs, then velociraptors (if their intelligence is comparable to those birds) should be smart enough to avoid toxic humans. I think it would come down to how fast we metabolize the chocolate we consume and if avoidance or immunity would come fist. I would place money on avoidance due to the behavior of birds avoiding poison bugs. Anyone care to look up how long a human could stay toxic?

Also, thanks for confirming the feathers for me. ^_^ That made my day.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby Sockmonkey » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:12 am UTC

IIRC it's the therobromine that does it, which is also found in coffee to various degrees. I'm probably raptor-poison already, being a hardcore java-head.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby thoughtfully » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:42 pm UTC

Caffeine and theobromide are very similar chemicals. Caffeine is also toxic in sufficient quantities.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby gmalivuk » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:42 pm UTC

Except I'm pretty sure avoiding bright coloring isn't a learned behavior so much as an evolved one. As in, birds that didn't avoid it didn't pass on their genes.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby Krealr » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:54 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Except I'm pretty sure avoiding bright coloring isn't a learned behavior so much as an evolved one. As in, birds that didn't avoid it didn't pass on their genes.


So we need to eat chocolate AND wear bright clothing?
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:59 pm UTC

On that subject of the mythical 'raptor (tall as a man, smart as a chimp, scaly, knows no fear):

They would refuse to eat chocolate (or anything without blood). You might be able to trick them into eating a few grams, but not the 1 oz per pound body weight described above. That's like a person accidentally eating ten pounds of mud at once.

As for the actual (30 pounds and feathery) velociraptors:

I'd say they probably don't have a sweet tooth. If they would eat the chocolate there's still some chance that they'd be acclimated to theobromide somehow (finding it distasteful or being able to metabolize it like us).
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby chenille » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:28 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Except I'm pretty sure avoiding bright coloring isn't a learned behavior so much as an evolved one. As in, birds that didn't avoid it didn't pass on their genes.

Maybe in part, but birds do try to eat monarch butterflies and learn from experience that it's not a good idea. There is a classic photo of a vomiting blue jay, for instance on this page, used to illustrate the first part of this; I vaguely remember a follow-up shot of the same bird leaving another one alone, but I couldn't find it.
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Re: Would chocolate kill velociraptors?

Postby poxic » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:32 am UTC

I have no idea why I thought it would be a good idea to look at a picture of a vomiting blue jay. I suppose I can now say I've seen one. Go me.
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