The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Bacon Workshop

[Jahoclave]

And most importantly, your own army of mook slaves in your house. I don't want some shack in Whiterun with Lydia watching me sleep, I want my own Estate. I want my own farm that gives me all the food that I never actually use. I want a horde of alchemists harvesting all the local plants for me. In Morrowind, the Hlaalu faction gave you an egg mine, or something. I don't remember; Telvanni was the way to go, what with those cool butlers.

And, after building my giant cocaine funded plantation I want Lydia watching me sleep. Cause goddammit, I feel safer.

[Koa]

I think you're looking for a different game. There can be a lot of issues with having a real economy like that, for instance, the whole economy coming to a halt because the last lumber worker was killed by a dragon. You might suggest more lumber workers being introduced into the world to keep the economy going, but then the image of a functioning economy is ruined when it doesn't matter whether that lumber worker lives or dies when you know that he'll be instantly replaced. Then you might suggest that there should be a delay or some other system to make sure to fix that, and on and on, increasing the development time until you have essentially a real world economy... when it's a fantasy RPG and not an economy simulator.

Anyway, you might want to look at Mortal Online (iirc), the X series, or some other trading/economy game.

[Jahoclave]

I think you're looking for a different game. There can be a lot of issues with having a real economy like that, for instance, the whole economy coming to a halt because the last lumber worker was killed by a dragon. You might suggest more lumber workers being introduced into the world to keep the economy going, but then the image of a functioning economy is ruined when it doesn't matter whether that lumber worker lives or dies when you know that he'll be instantly replaced. Then you might suggest that there should be a delay or some other system to make sure to fix that, and on and on, increasing the development time until you have essentially a real world economy... when it's a fantasy RPG and not an economy simulator.

Anyway, you might want to look at Mortal Online (iirc), the X series, or some other trading/economy game.

Can I still have the giant plantation built on cocaine money anyways?

[Koa]

To have the giant plantation built on cocaine money, one must first have to create cocaine. The rest of the universe can come in later.

[eSOANEM]

To have the giant plantation built on cocaine money, one must first have to create cocaine. The rest of the universe can come in later.

I'd settle for a giant moon sugar plantation to make skooma but, oh wait, I can't even make skooma from the little moon sugar I manage to take from the corpses of khajiit.

[el_loco_avs]

Finished main quest

Spoiler:

end fight was easy as fuck. disappointing. for some reason I thought I had to close off Sovngarde and kill him again in Nirn but nope. All done. Oops.

Not sure if I'll be returning to do other stuff/quests. Never got close to making dragon armor sadly. I'm under level 30 still.

Disappointed

[gmalivuk]

An actual functioning economy is really outside the scope of Skyrim, for reasons already mentioned.

But based on earlier discussion, I think one thing we *could* do is mod it so prices are more internally consistent. Anyone know whether it'd be that hard to add a decimal point and then use dimes and cents for the cheapest things?

[Koa]

Money is hardcoded to not accept decimals, but I don't see how impressing our current value system into Skyrim would make it any more economic. For all we know, Sheogorath could have created a worldwide shortage of brooms.

[gmalivuk]

Who said anything about our current value system? We can readily see there's no broom shortage by looking at the number of them just lying around places. I'm talking about an internally consistent value system that doesn't require special pleading like a Daedra-induced housewares shortage.

[ArgonV]

Finished main quest

Spoiler:

end fight was easy as fuck. disappointing. for some reason I thought I had to close off Sovngarde and kill him again in Nirn but nope. All done. Oops.

Not sure if I'll be returning to do other stuff/quests. Never got close to making dragon armor sadly. I'm under level 30 still.

Disappointed

Spoiler:

Yeah, Alduin was pretty easy. But if you still want dragon armor, there's plenty of dragons still waiting to be slaughtered.

[eSOANEM]

Money is hardcoded to not accept decimals,

Could just multiply all gold up and then reduce the cost of the most common things instead of using decimals.

[An Enraged Platypus]

Money is hardcoded to not accept decimals, but I don't see how impressing our current value system into Skyrim would make it any more economic. For all we know, Sheogorath could have created a worldwide shortage of brooms.

He *has* created a worldwide shortage of calipers. Proven fact, just try to find a pair in Skyrim.

[gmalivuk]

I started a new (now on number three) character yesterday with realistic lighting and the Dungeon edition of the Sounds of Skyrim mod, and dungeons are really fucking scary now. I started feeling like it was survival horror, which I think is awesome and also quite appropriate for an ancient tomb full of shambling undead enemies. It very well should feel completely different to do that than, say, to walk through the beautiful flowered plains around Whiterun.

I'm trying out a number of other mods as well, but these two together are probably the most awesome of them.

[Adam H]

Some mods are matters of taste, like the realistic lighting. But then there are others where there's really no point in not having them:

-Specialized Followers (it won me over when Aela turned into a werewolf and pwned the crap out of a bandit filled dungeon)
-Improved Dragonmask Textures
-Realistic Ragdoll Physics (Well I guess this is definitely a matter of taste, actually)
-Wulferoo's Cooking Recipes (I think that's the one I have)

Any other recommendations?

[not baby Newt]

I started a new (now on number three) character yesterday with realistic lighting and the Dungeon edition of the Sounds of Skyrim mod, and dungeons are really fucking scary now.

I can absolutely believe that.

Might I ask if your character runs solo? Lydia and a fire atronach makes things less scary.

Edit: a realistic economy mod might make you stay the fuck away from iron mines and important industries, since couriers etc only gets mauled by bears or mid-road bandit forts when you are near. Ie, big changes required.

[gmalivuk]

Any other recommendations?

A fletching mod is really nice for heavy bow users. Dragonbone weapons are good for anyone who wants to make more use out of the dozens of bones and scales you end up with. I'd say both of these are in the "no point in not using" category, since it's not like it makes things any different if you just choose not to use it for one of your characters.

Might I ask if your character runs solo? Lydia and a fire atronach makes things less scary.

I don't know what I'll do later with this character, because the only dungeon he's been through so far is Bleak Falls (? - the first one, near Riverdale or Riverwood or whatever it is), and he doesn't have anyone willing to follow him yet.

[An Enraged Platypus]

Marcurio seems to be the most deadly companion I've had.

(RIP Faendal, your service will not be forgotten.)

[omgryebread]

There will probably be a mod to adjust some things to be more economy-like. Make iron and quicksilver cheaper in Dawnstar, selling a bunch of firewood in Riverwood will make arrows cheaper in Whiterun, etc.

For essential mods, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=P2QL2iw_GqcWhy would you need anything else?

[el_loco_avs]

Finished main quest

Spoiler:

end fight was easy as fuck. disappointing. for some reason I thought I had to close off Sovngarde and kill him again in Nirn but nope. All done. Oops.

Not sure if I'll be returning to do other stuff/quests. Never got close to making dragon armor sadly. I'm under level 30 still.

Disappointed

Spoiler:

Yeah, Alduin was pretty easy. But if you still want dragon armor, there's plenty of dragons still waiting to be slaughtered.

Well. I have like... 35+ bones and scales each. Just... I was at 50 smithing skill. I just decided to powerlevel that spending all my cash almost haah. Got my dragonbones on. Now I need to level my enchanting too fix 'em up even nicer. Decided to marry someone too haha. And I think I'd like to see the Civil War quest line too. So I'm doing that. And after powerleveling smithing fighting stuff is more... interesting.

[CorruptUser]

Finished main quest

Spoiler:

end fight was easy as fuck. disappointing. for some reason I thought I had to close off Sovngarde and kill him again in Nirn but nope. All done. Oops.

Not sure if I'll be returning to do other stuff/quests. Never got close to making dragon armor sadly. I'm under level 30 still.

Disappointed

Spoiler:

Yeah, Alduin was pretty easy. But if you still want dragon armor, there's plenty of dragons still waiting to be slaughtered.

Well. I have like... 35+ bones and scales each. Just... I was at 50 smithing skill. I just decided to powerlevel that spending all my cash almost haah. Got my dragonbones on. Now I need to level my enchanting too fix 'em up even nicer. Decided to marry someone too haha. And I think I'd like to see the Civil War quest line too. So I'm doing that. And after powerleveling smithing fighting stuff is more... interesting.

Powerleveling smithing is CHEAP. Just buy iron and leather, make only leather bracers and iron daggers. Every item is the same xp, regardless of whether it's an iron dagger or an ebony plate.

[Will]

To hell with buying anything, go kill some elk and bears for their pelts.

[Magnanimous]

Powerleveling smithing is CHEAP. Just buy iron and leather, make only leather bracers and iron daggers. Every item is the same xp, regardless of whether it's an iron dagger or an ebony plate.

I'm still incredulous as to how they decided this was a good idea.

[The Scyphozoa]

I've never used Lydia. Every time I go to Dragonsreach it feels like she's been sitting around waiting for me to give her orders, and I feel guilty because she could be doing something more useful. But as an Xbox player I find I'm very likely to accidentally hit allies and I have more fun on my own.

[not baby Newt]

Powerleveling smithing is CHEAP. Just buy iron and leather, make only leather bracers and iron daggers. Every item is the same xp, regardless of whether it's an iron dagger or an ebony plate.

I'm still incredulous as to how they decided this was a good idea.

Probably didn't. Think much about it I mean. However most old skills increase differently based on (iirc) damage taken, potion value, pickpocketed value, weapon base quality level etc. So yeah.

Also strikes me that the difference between skill 1 and 100 is way way bigger than the 1.5 or less of weapons/enchanting/magic. Or maybe that's just because +10 on a daedric doom sword is only slightly better than +1 on an iron club.

I don't have an ally-hitting problem since release bow-string -> hit is half a second. Melee power attack windup is more.

All the foes that seem to have noticeable armor:
- Thalmor in glass
- That's it.

[gmalivuk]

They may not have thought about it extra for Skyrim, but the constant skill increase thing was in oblivion as well, but even more ridiculous. Mercantile skill went up the same amount for every transaction, independent of value. So selling 100 arrows for 1gp each one at a time would increase your skill 100 times more than selling one really nice thing for a couple grand.

[Adam H]

I don't have an ally-hitting problem since release bow-string -> hit is half a second. Melee power attack windup is more.

One hit killed Faendal with a bow my first time out with him. He just ran in front of my bow right when I released the arrow.

Powerleveling smithing is CHEAP. Just buy iron and leather, make only leather bracers and iron daggers. Every item is the same xp, regardless of whether it's an iron dagger or an ebony plate.

I'm still incredulous as to how they decided this was a good idea.

Apparently this is hardcoded in, how else is it possible we don't have a mod that addresses this yet?

My ideal smithing mod: you need more ore to make 1 bar. You get more ore from mining (also shorten the mining animation). Bars and ore are much heavier (maybe let you hire carts/henchmen to tote them to the blacksmith). Total weight of materials to smith an item should be equal to (or a bit greater than) finished item weight. Weight of item is directly proportional to skill increase.

[not baby Newt]

Gmal - Yes. The point I failed to actually make was that they *did* think about it for this game. Just not for the new skill.

[gmalivuk]

Speaking of mod recommendations, I strongly don't recommend the current (6.5) version of the Dovahkiin Hideout, as it prevents some scripts from happening, leaving you no way to start certain quests, even with the console and after restarting without the mod loaded. (I mean, you can still of course load a save from before the event was supposed to be triggered, and things will work fine. But if you made the mistake I did and don't have any such game saved, because you spent too much time trying to console yourself into the next quest, you'll have to start a new game.)

[ShootTheChicken]

They may not have thought about it extra for Skyrim, but the constant skill increase thing was in oblivion as well, but even more ridiculous. Mercantile skill went up the same amount for every transaction, independent of value. So selling 100 arrows for 1gp each one at a time would increase your skill 100 times more than selling one really nice thing for a couple grand.

It doesn't take much skill to sell someone something that is clearly worth a lot of money.

But to walk into a store and sell 100 of something small, for a dollar each, as a separate transaction each time, without getting kicked out by the shopkeeper? You have to be pretty suave.

[gmalivuk]

Haha, fair enough. I hadn't thought of it in quite that way before.

[An Enraged Platypus]

The modded conjuration spell 'conjure spectral horse' is beautifully done. It does what it says on the tin: it summons a horse (the headless horseman's one) that you can ride. If it gets attacked (whilst you are not riding it) it simply disappears.

[Chewbaccawacca]

And after powerleveling smithing fighting stuff is more... interesting.

Heh, yeah. I worked real hard to get my smithing to 100 (admittedly power leveling a little with the dagger trick) as fast as possible. Once I did, I drank a bunch of pots wore my magic smithing gloves and crafted the best Daedric Greatsword I could. Combine that with my two-handed perks and the Elemental Fury shout and I can deal somewhere around 600-700 damage in about 3 seconds while my PC sits around level 40.

I have practically no defense against magic or ranged weapons, but if I can close the distance I haven't met a foe who couldn't be brought down in under a minute.

Incidentally that's actually why I go solo questing now, combat was becoming too easy thanks to my lack of planning ahead for this playthrough. I'm super excited about starting a new PC using light armor and daggers and the like just so I can try out different ways of approaching combat scenarios.

[BlackSails]

I have practically no defense against magic or ranged weapons, but if I can close the distance I haven't met a foe who couldn't be brought down in under a minute.

I havent even abused the enchanting/alchemy loop, and my character is able to kill everything ive come across in probably about 5 seconds, dragons and giants included.

[Chewbaccawacca]

Do you play heavy-tank too? Or do you just have real high dps with a different build?

[BlackSails]

Just dual wielding swords, with most of the one handed tree. I have enchanted swords, although it seems with the dragon shout, unenchanted swords do a lot more damage. Most of my gear is the best +one handed damage gear I can make.

[Chewbaccawacca]

Yeah, I have the second word of the shout. My sword by itself does like 170-180 (I can't remember offhand) damage a strike and with the shout I can do about 1 power-strike every 1.5-2 seconds. If they all land (heh not always) I can do quite a bit of damage with just my sword, no spells or arrows or anything. It works great against vanilla enemies like the Drauger, and it's fine against Dragons as long as they land if they stay in the air than I'm out of luck.

*EDIT* Hmmm, by my shoddy math apparently I would only be putting out maybe 400 damage in 3 seconds. Suffice to say I haven't crunched any real numbers, this is all from what I can remember in my head. But it definitely feels like a ton of damage.

[SecondTalon]

Grotesque is Mehrunes Razor enhanced to about 100 damage. With the Dark Brotherhood Gloves and the Sneak Perk.

2(15[100]) on a backstab. As they say... Ouch.

Still doesn't feel as cheaty as the 100% magicka reduction to Destruction, though.

[not baby Newt]

You know *that* YouTube video where a girl sings a song, possibly dragonborn comes? The mod that adds it as tavern background music is great.

/Probably this is understandable sans specifics.

Edit: how strong is 100% cheper destruction anyway?
Incinerate lists as 201, with perk and dual cast and (to pick a *totally* random number) -29% from items that's almost exactly 200. Cast once per second(?).. base combat regen is about 1%...all you need is +900% regen and 2k max magicka. Right.

More realistic is what, 600 max and +400% regen? That's empty to full in 20 seconds in combat, same as oblivion with OOO and 100 will. So 30 magicka per second. Far far from 200.

Conclusion: 0-cost destruction matters, and spells cost much.

The shops sell poison of 100% weakness to fire for 30s. Too bad no self respecting mage opens with a bow...

[el_loco_avs]

Finished main quest

Spoiler:

end fight was easy as fuck. disappointing. for some reason I thought I had to close off Sovngarde and kill him again in Nirn but nope. All done. Oops.

Not sure if I'll be returning to do other stuff/quests. Never got close to making dragon armor sadly. I'm under level 30 still.

Disappointed

Spoiler:

Yeah, Alduin was pretty easy. But if you still want dragon armor, there's plenty of dragons still waiting to be slaughtered.

Well. I have like... 35+ bones and scales each. Just... I was at 50 smithing skill. I just decided to powerlevel that spending all my cash almost haah. Got my dragonbones on. Now I need to level my enchanting too fix 'em up even nicer. Decided to marry someone too haha. And I think I'd like to see the Civil War quest line too. So I'm doing that. And after powerleveling smithing fighting stuff is more... interesting.

Powerleveling smithing is CHEAP. Just buy iron and leather, make only leather bracers and iron daggers. Every item is the same xp, regardless of whether it's an iron dagger or an ebony plate.

It was, but buying the materials for that was not that cheap. I lost a bunch of money, also b ecause I did some enchanting leveling too, buying souls ain't cheap.

Spoiler:

the civil war quest is mildly tedious. I've taken to letting Odaviing do all the work. including killing my own soldiers when he pisses them off..

[gmalivuk]

Sure, it's pricy to buy all the stuff for grinding smithing, but it's still loads cheaper than paying a trainer. And that's a huge advantage to a character that I created primarily in order to use the awesome-looking dragonbone warhammer I've got a mod for.

But yeah, for enchanting you should really harvest your own souls to make it economically viable.