ITT: Baffles baffle Biggles - Chem Eng

For the discussion of the sciences. Physics problems, chemistry equations, biology weirdness, it all goes here.

Moderators: gmalivuk, Moderators General, Prelates

ITT: Baffles baffle Biggles - Chem Eng

Postby bigglesworth » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:59 pm UTC

Can someone explain to me what exactly the baffles in a chemical reactor or fermenter do? Wikipedia is startlingly unhelpful on the manner, and my textbook seems to assume I already know what they are.

I can't seem to visualise what a... fin? hydrofoil? does to the flow in the reactor. Google images hasn't helped either.
Generation Y. I don't remember the First Gulf War, but do remember floppy disks.
User avatar
bigglesworth
 
Posts: 6600
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:29 pm UTC
Location: The British Empire

Re: ITT: Baffles baffle Biggles - Chem Eng

Postby Mr_Rose » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:58 pm UTC

Short version:
Increase turbulence == increased mixing == better distribution of heat and reactants.
Microevolution is a term — when used by creationists — that is the evolutionary equivalent of the belief that the mechanism you use to walk from your bedroom to the kitchen is insufficient to get you from New York to Los Angeles.
Mr_Rose
 
Posts: 379
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 9:32 am UTC

Re: ITT: Baffles baffle Biggles - Chem Eng

Postby ++$_ » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:27 pm UTC

My intuitive understanding as a non-engineer:

Without baffles, all the stuff in your reactor will have a tendency to just go around and around. That seems unlikely to result in rapid homogeneous mixing. For example, once the entire contents of the reactor are rotating with the impeller, your impeller stops being effective since it is no longer moving very fast relative to the fluid.
++$_
Mo' Money
 
Posts: 2370
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:06 am UTC

Re: ITT: Baffles baffle Biggles - Chem Eng

Postby bigglesworth » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:24 am UTC

So it stops vortexing then.
Generation Y. I don't remember the First Gulf War, but do remember floppy disks.
User avatar
bigglesworth
 
Posts: 6600
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:29 pm UTC
Location: The British Empire

Re: ITT: Baffles baffle Biggles - Chem Eng

Postby PhDFluff » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:53 am UTC

If you're interested I can fix you up with a picture of the baffles we use in the fermentors in our lab.
PhDFluff
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 2:06 pm UTC

Re: ITT: Baffles baffle Biggles - Chem Eng

Postby bigglesworth » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:27 am UTC

That would be very kind of you.
Generation Y. I don't remember the First Gulf War, but do remember floppy disks.
User avatar
bigglesworth
 
Posts: 6600
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:29 pm UTC
Location: The British Empire

Re: ITT: Baffles baffle Biggles - Chem Eng

Postby Zamfir » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:17 pm UTC

User avatar
Zamfir
 
Posts: 5746
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:43 pm UTC
Location: Nederland

Re: ITT: Baffles baffle Biggles - Chem Eng

Postby bigglesworth » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:10 pm UTC

Superb! Thanks Zamfir.
Generation Y. I don't remember the First Gulf War, but do remember floppy disks.
User avatar
bigglesworth
 
Posts: 6600
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:29 pm UTC
Location: The British Empire

Re: ITT: Baffles baffle Biggles - Chem Eng

Postby Zamfir » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:21 pm UTC

What's especially nice to see is that the baffle does not create some intense local flow phenomenon, with lots of mixing near the baffle. It mostly forces a 'bend' in the flow, and that upsets the entire flow pattern.

In a sense, it's not that the baffle does something very special, it's that a smooth cylindrical tank allows an unusually smooth and stable flow pattern. Any trubulence-creating disturbance is an improvement. But it has to be a disturbance that doesn't create a shadow dead zone near it, where flow can reside without being thrown bak into the overall pattern.
User avatar
Zamfir
 
Posts: 5746
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:43 pm UTC
Location: Nederland

Re: ITT: Baffles baffle Biggles - Chem Eng

Postby PhDFluff » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:48 pm UTC

Here's a couple of pictures of a fermentor as promised.
Attachments
whole chamber.JPG
One fermentor. You see the baffle as a cylindrical skeleton inside the chamber.
close up.JPG
A close up on the chamber.
baffle.JPG
The mysterious baffle itself.
PhDFluff
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 2:06 pm UTC

Re: ITT: Baffles baffle Biggles - Chem Eng

Postby bigglesworth » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:44 am UTC

Thank you. It is good to note that, as per my textbook in front of me, the width of the baffles seem to be about 10% of the vessel diameter. And that no more than four are necessary.
Generation Y. I don't remember the First Gulf War, but do remember floppy disks.
User avatar
bigglesworth
 
Posts: 6600
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:29 pm UTC
Location: The British Empire

Re: ITT: Baffles baffle Biggles - Chem Eng

Postby PhDFluff » Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:30 am UTC

bigglesworth wrote:Thank you. It is good to note that, as per my textbook in front of me, the width of the baffles seem to be about 10% of the vessel diameter. And that no more than four are necessary.


That seems to be accurate. In my baffle there's three of them about 1-2cm wide. In baffled cell cultivation e-flasks you usually have four.
PhDFluff
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 2:06 pm UTC


Return to Science

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: eternauta3k, psbot [Picsearch], thoughtfully, zukenft and 7 guests