[SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

[Brace]

It's scheduled for tomorrow. Hopefully it actually works out. The friend who is going with me is P-time oriented which could screw over literally everything.

Update: I've been scammed out of $800 and there's nothing I can do. They worked through loopholes in the law. I have no legal recourse.

[Brace]

I doubt I'm going to be able to find an internship.

[Роберт]

[Monika]

Even if they get to keep the rent for the whole month due to some law, they have to give you back the deposit, don't they?

Were you able to get your stuff together with your p-time oriented friend?

[Brace]

There was enough pre-existing damage in the house that they could turn around and blame on me that it's not worth pursuing. And yeah, I took him there. He knew what was going on immediately and it was his instinct that said none of the money is coming back out of this.

[Denebola]

Hi! o/ I'm a new member, and there was nothing to be done but promptly seek out the queer thread here.

I prefer using 'queer' to sum up my existence, but if pressed, I will identify as genderqueer and pansexual. Hi! o: [I appreciate this thread being marked as a safe space! Certainly enticed me.]

[Monika]

*waves hi to Denebola*

[lisa]

well I've been lurking on these forums for a while and so I might as well post here now. I don't really know who or what I am, but this dysphoria stuff has been hitting pretty hard over the last year...just managed to mention it to my doctor today.

guess I'll just float around...

[natashatasha]

[I appreciate this thread being marked as a safe space! Certainly enticed me.]

Hello! And it most certainly is safe ... everyone here is so lovely and friendly, it's like being inside a giant teddy-bear! ^_^

[Monika]

Hi lisa! Feel welcomed.

[natashatasha]

Welcome to the thread Lisa, I didn't see you post. I hope things start getting better for you ... therere plenty of people here who have gone through the same issues (not to diminish your own problems, of course) who will no-doubt be happy to offer their advice and their comfort.

[a_fuzzyduck]

am actually annoyed at some coverage of today's google doodle. Probably being a bit harsh myself here, but please, FUCK OFF MONONORMATIVITY IN QUEER PLACES.

(It's fair enough to assume that someone who identifies as male and fancies male people *might* be gay, but that's it.)

Maybe a nonbin pride day would help... but we'd have to do the whole day without using ANYTHING electronic at all. Since that's all binary :p

[Monika]

Was that you who twittered "I appreciate how today's google doodle only features panromantic asexuals"?

Maybe a nonbin pride day would help... but we'd have to do the whole day without using ANYTHING electronic at all. Since that's all binary :p

[Black Dynamite]

Hello all, I've been lurking this thread for awhile and I think you're all awesome people. I'm happy to have found a place such as this.

I thought now would be a good time to be less timid, and I've decided to introduce myself. I'm bisexual and a girl stuffed up into a man's body. This is very frustrating. For far too long I was at war with myself and my gender identity, but somewhat recently I have made up my mind what I want. Yes (I say to myself) I am a girl, and I hate being a guy, and it pisses me off when the rest of the world doesn't know the real me. I am a princess, and no one seems to understand. (Of course they don't understand, my girlfriend says, the world can't see what is inside of you. Well, they should; I'll just have to bring my insides out to my outsides, I reply.)

I greatly desire to transition and live as a woman full time. I guess the only thing holding me back is my final year of high school, funds, and lack of know how. What is the first thing that someone in my position does? What's the first step to transitioning?

[Brace]

My first step would just be to buy hormones from Inhouse as a stopgap, but then my alignment is chaotic good :3 But seriously, buy hormones from Inhouse as a stopgap. Then search for a therapist who mentions trans issues as something they cover, call them up, and schedule an appointment so that you can work on getting above ground on everything. Or at least that's how it worked under the old standards of care. I'm just sort of assuming that practice hasn't caught up with the recent revisions yet and that it still works this way. I'm sure someone else will correct me if not so

[Aaeriele]

I greatly desire to transition and live as a woman full time. I guess the only thing holding me back is my final year of high school, funds, and lack of know how. What is the first thing that someone in my position does? What's the first step to transitioning?

There's no "One True Way" of transitioning, but there are some general pathways that tend to be involved for certain end goals (e.g. HRT, SRS). They can vary somewhat depending on where you're located and what resources are nearby.

HRT is usually proscribed by a medical professional on the recommendation of a therapist, but there are exceptions to this rule (there are some clinics that don't require therapists, etc). This is the thing most likely to vary from place to place. HRT is also often covered by insurance.

SRS generally requires a minimum period of HRT and also a recommendation from a therapist.

If you're not sure what resources you have available, I'd suggest doing some Googling for trans resources in your area. We might be able to help with this if you give us a general sense of where you're located (country/state).

[Monika]

Hello all, I've been lurking this thread for awhile and I think you're all awesome people. I'm happy to have found a place such as this.

I thought now would be a good time to be less timid, and I've decided to introduce myself. I'm bisexual and a girl stuffed up into a man's body. This is very frustrating. For far too long I was at war with myself and my gender identity, but somewhat recently I have made up my mind what I want. Yes (I say to myself) I am a girl, and I hate being a guy, and it pisses me off when the rest of the world doesn't know the real me. I am a princess, and no one seems to understand. (Of course they don't understand, my girlfriend says, the world can't see what is inside of you. Well, they should; I'll just have to bring my insides out to my outsides, I reply.)

I greatly desire to transition and live as a woman full time. I guess the only thing holding me back is my final year of high school, funds, and lack of know how. What is the first thing that someone in my position does? What's the first step to transitioning?

*hugs*

There is this guide http://www.tsroadmap.com for transitioning from male to female in the United States. Maybe some of the trans women here can comment on what they think how good it is.

Regarding starting transitioning already this year: How is your relationship with your parents? Do you know their position on trans people or at least on queer people in general? Is there a chance they could be supportive? If there is a risk they might throw you out of the house, don't tell them. Living your true gender is super important, but food, housing and finishing high school are very important, too.
Even if they are not really supportive as long as they are not outright hateful/transphobic you may still be able to tell them that you want to see a therapist. Best try to identify a trans positive therapist in your area before - find out online which therapists are recommended by other trans women in your area or at least which ones to definitely avoid. (For example reddit has discussions on the topic.) A good therapist would hopefully transfer you to a endocrinologist very soon and the endocrinologist would then give you a blocker against the androgenes (testosterone) and estrogene and sometimes progesterone, and soon you will feel much better in your body. With a not so good therapist you may have to talk for many months until they finally believe you that you are a girl and let you take hormones. You have to decide if you can deal with this.

If you wait until next year when you go to college and you live in a country like the US where it is (sometimes) possible to get hormones without seeing a therapist, you could specifically pick a college in an area with a trans clinic. It would still be a good idea to find a therapist for support, but then it's up to you whether you want to continue seeing them, take a break, pick someone else, ... .

After taking hormones for a while (I read about 1.5 years) you can get SRS (if you want it). Whether you have to pay for this or insurance pays for this can vary.

In other countries (e.g. here in Germany) it could be pretty bad, often at least a year of "therapy" that is often not very helpful but mostly consists of having to convince the therapist of your transness and femaleness, and often the requirement to "live as a woman" full-time (which seems to mean wearing dresses) before even being allowed to take hormones, which is not nice if you don't look particularly feminine naturally. And for getting SRS one even needs a letter from a second therapist.

If it ends up being necessary because you get a gatekeeper instead of a helpful therapist, tell them whatever they want to hear ... you preferred to play with dolls in preschool, always had mostly female friends, want to wear dresses, ... whether or not it's true.

Ordering hormones online without a prescription is an emergency solution in case of really crappy therapists and no "informed consent" endocrinologists/clinics in the area/country, but it's also risky. Estrogene can give you a stroke as well as liver problems and other things. So if you go for this option, you still need to see a doctor regularly to get your blood checked, for which you would usually have to pay out of your pocket. As you are still in high school you probably don't have the money for either the hormones or the blood work, do you?

[Aaeriele]

tsroadmap is a mixed bag. It has a fair amount of information but some of it is outdated/wrong.

[Jessica]

I'm glad you've been able to express how you feel, and to be sure of yourself. It's really a huge step.

Others have already answered a lot of your questions. A lot of it is based on where you live though, and the resources around you. I would suggest (to anyone really...) that they move to a large urban centre when they have the ability to do so. The more urban the area, the more likely they will have resources for trans people, and that they'll have a welcoming community. Of course, this is just a generalization, and there can be really good resources in rural areas (theoretically...) but for the most part, the more people there are, the more trans people there are, the more resources for us there are.

Also, if you're going to go the getting yourself your own hormones route... just be careful. There are some serious health effects from some of those little awesome pills.

[Shivahn]

Also, if you're going to go the getting yourself your own hormones route... just be careful. There are some serious health effects from some of those little awesome pills.

Could you give some examples? Other than clots I don't see much on Wikipedia. Though clots are, admittedly, terrible.

[Jessica]

Clots are one. Spironolactone is a diuretic, and you need to check your potasium, for your liver. Well, all drugs in general are bad for your liver...
uh... I had a list at one point, but I don't remember much of it.

[Shivahn]

Ok, I was just wondering if I was missing something.

Clots scare me a lot.

[PM 2Ring]

Hormones put a bit of a load on the liver, however non-oral forms (injections, patches & implants) are kinder to the liver than oral forms.

Taking hormones without proper supervision can be risky, and should really only be done if it's impossible to get supervision. Although there are general guidelines one can follow, different people respond differently to all sorts of medications, so it's a Good Idea to have an expert who can prescribe a combination of testosterone blocker and estrogen that suits your biochemistry, and who can monitor how your endocrine system is responding to the hormone changes.

Another effect of estrogen (related to the stroke and clotting thing) is that it can give an increase tendency to bruising. Ultimately, this is related to how estrogen makes your skin softer - it makes all such tissues softer, so your blood vessels get softer, too, which can make them weaker. Many post-menopausal women who've been on long term HRT can get large bruises very easily.

[Black Dynamite]

I live in Seattle, Washington (and I'm eighteen). It's a huge LGBT friendly area, and I'm sure there are tons of resources around here. So I should google search for a trans friendly therapist in the area, and after some sessions they might prescribe hormones? I think that's my goal, be seeing some doctors and starting hormones by the end of this year. Is that too out of range? I'm pretty sure which hormones I should be taking, but I have not a clue about dosage. Doing it myself scares me quite a bit, it seems very dangerous in my mind.

I really do have a problem with finances, being an unemployed student. Therapists and doctor visits and HRT are covered by insurance, usually? I would really like to find a clinic that does HRT by consent. But I don't have any idea what insurance plan thing my mom has. I live with just my mom, with my aunt and grandma also in the area. I honestly don't know what their opinions on transgender things are, but they're fairly liberal and accepting. I don't think I'll be kicked out or anything at all, and they really can't stop me from doing what I want. But, it's still scary.

Thank you all so much for the replies!

[Aaeriele]

I live in Seattle, Washington (and I'm eighteen). It's a huge LGBT friendly area, and I'm sure there are tons of resources around here.

Oh, yep, Seattle's a great place to be. I'd recommend starting here.

I think that's my goal, be seeing some doctors and starting hormones by the end of this year. Is that too out of range?

Not at all. That is easily within a reasonable scope.

I'm pretty sure which hormones I should be taking, but I have not a clue about dosage. Doing it myself scares me quite a bit, it seems very dangerous in my mind.

I'd definitely recommend having medical help with it, if at all possible. DIY should be a last resort.

I really do have a problem with finances, being an unemployed student. Therapists and doctor visits and HRT are covered by insurance, usually?

Yes, typically.

I would really like to find a clinic that does HRT by consent. But I don't have any idea what insurance plan thing my mom has.

I'd take a look at Ingersoll's list of resources.

I live with just my mom, with my aunt and grandma also in the area. I honestly don't know what their opinions on transgender things are, but they're fairly liberal and accepting. I don't think I'll be kicked out or anything at all, and they really can't stop me from doing what I want. But, it's still scary.

Yep, it can definitely be nerve-wracking. Take things at your own pace, but I would recommend trying to talk to them if you think you can, especially if you're fairly sure they'll be supportive. Having supportive or even neutral family members is a lot better than spending your energy on trying to hide.

[Monika]

@Black Dynamite: Some other things you can start while/before/after finding/seeing a therapist to get HRT (based on what other trans women wrote in this thread what they are doing):
- Practice your female voice. There are videos on Youtube with help.
- Buy some make-up, learn to use it, find out what you like. There are also videos for this.
- Buy some feminine clothes (if you like feminine clothes) and wear them at home for now ... or outside, if you feel okay with this.
- Get facial hair removal with lasers or eletricity or in other ways. This costs a bit. After you have told your mom, maybe she will support this financially.
- Consider if you want to remove other body hair, like on your legs. Try different ways, like shaving, epilation, waxing, chemical (Veet) or sugar-based (Moom) solutions. I prefer Veet, but not everybody's skin can stand this. I find epilation, waxing and Moom too painful.

Also, if you're going to go the getting yourself your own hormones route... just be careful. There are some serious health effects from some of those little awesome pills.

Could you give some examples? Other than clots I don't see much on Wikipedia. Though clots are, admittedly, terrible.

http://www.transsexuell.de/med-hormone.shtml lists these risks for estrogene:
* heart attack, stroke - especially for women who are overweight, have diabetes, smoke a lot and/or have high blood pressure
* high blood pressure - can lead to heart attack, regularly get your blood pressure checked! (<-- that's a translated quote)
* liver damage: Bromthal intake and output (not sure what that means), jaundice, glykogen reduction - check liver values regularly, avoid high alcohol consumption
* cancer of the skin - no definitive proof, but possibly linked to estrogen; cancer of the breasts - suspected link - get breasts checked every six months
* changes of the skin, pigment spots, allergies of the skin possible - however, improvement of allergies possible, too; also: akne improves
* migrane-like headaches, vision problems - rare, but important to watch, can be a hint at a stroke coming
* depression - use medication with less gestagene, add more vitamine B6 to food
* nausea, especially on high oral doses - use alternate ways like patches or take with food or before sleeping
* osteoporosis - eat more calcium and exercise
* weight gain, because gestagene increases appetite, estrogene increases water being put into body cells
* more epileptic fits if one already has epilepsy - use lower dose

Then there is a special paragraph that strongly recommends against smoking while taking estrogene.

For testosterone:
* worse akne
* risk of cancer of the uterus and ovaries
* osteoporosis
* less appetite, feeling weak, nausea, vomitting
* kidney problems - rare
* high dose testosterone has a 25% risk of acroedema (water in cells)
* jaundice
* losing head hair

I am not sure if I translated all words correctly.

[PM 2Ring]

I am not sure if I translated all words correctly.

Your translation is mostly ok, but the English word for "gestagene" is "progesterone". Also, "estrogen" doesn't have an "e" on the end. In non-American dialects it's often spelled "oestrogen", but the American spelling is becoming more common here in Australia.


The body manufactures steroid hormones from cholesterol by modifying the cholesterol molecule slightly, so these hormones share many chemical & biological properties with cholesterol. It's common kowledge that high cholesterol is not good for the heart, so it should come as no surprise that the steroid hormones can have a similar effect. All fatty molecules get processed by the liver, so taking hormones gives the liver more material to process and that's why taking hormones can put a stress on the liver. The liver also processes alcohol (and most of the sugars), so it's a good idea to use fats, sugars and alcohol (and other recreational substances) in moderation to avoid overloading the liver.

But I Am Not A Biologist (or a doctor).

[sambot5]

[deleted for IRL safety reasons]

[joshz]

It's always nice when that happens.

[Aaeriele]

This isn't really related to the current topic of discussion, but....I just came out to one my friends and he was totally fine with it! I still the feel really jittery from the conversation...

yay!

[Hyphe]

I have decided, after much introspection and self-reflection, that I am queer and androgyne (and I prefer female pronouns). Deciding on this, and putting names to it all, feels so totally hardcore ace. Being able to out myself to the best bunch of friends, colleagues, and co-conspirators is icing on the cake.

Funding has gone through!!!!!!!
I can now contact the surgeon and get on the waiting list for surgery! YAY!!!

/me is really happy right now

Congrats, Jess! That's great news!

[Cathy]

This isn't really related to the current topic of discussion, but....I just came out to one my friends and he was totally fine with it! I still the feel really jittery from the conversation...

Woohoo!

Happy for you, it's a good feeling.

<3

[a_fuzzyduck]

another day, another campaign. hope this one sticks. and they stop using "gay" instead of LGBT

Spoiler:

The Football Association is responsible for a climate of homophobia in the game, according to former NBA basketball player John Amaechi.
The governing body launches a new six-year inclusion and anti-homophobia plan on Monday with no openly gay players among almost 3,000 professionals.
But Amaechi, who came out in 2007 and has been vocal in his criticisms of football's attitude towards homosexuality, says the issue will only be solved by greater diversity among the FA board members - not "posters and platitudes".
The FA plans to use a new video discussing homophobia in football , which features former players John Scales, Brendan Batson and Aidy Williams.
It recently fined former Leicester City player Michael Ball £6,000 after he tweeted homophobic comments and has charged West Ham's Ravel Morrison in a similar case.
Fans have also been banned after homophobic chanting at a game between Southampton and Brighton, and others have been arrested at a recent game involving Millwall and Brighton.
But Amaechi says the FA should stop pointing the finger at others and accept it is to blame.
He told BBC Sport: "I don't understand why football fans aren't more angry by the way they are portrayed by the football authorities.
"If you look at the first horrible video they did on anti-homophobia, it made it very clear that the problem lies with you. You stupid, blue-collar people in the terraces. It's you stupid urban, re black, people on the field. It's your fault.
"Then they sit in their boxes and their boardrooms and all the attention is deflected away from them.
"Well, it's 2012 and they have just appointed their first woman to the board. Does that really tell you they are a progressive organisation or they are now reacting to the fact the focus is starting to shift on to them?
"A board that has just voted a woman on to the board in 2012 is not progressive. They are by definition the problem."
Use accessible player and disable flyout menus

Carlisle thinks players would be supportive of an openly gay colleague
Professional Footballers' Association chairman Clarke Carlisle also thinks the FA needs to make a stand.
He told BBC Sport: "The responsibility lies with the national governing body. They need to make sure they set the precedent of levels of acceptance.
"Then the onus is on the players union, the football leagues, and the individual clubs to disseminate those messages."
The FA's Head of Equality, Sue Law, explained the organisation's plans.
She said: "The FA's action plan, 'Opening Doors and Joining In', is about football's commitment to inclusion and anti-homophobia.
"That sits alongside our intention for the game to draw from a wide and diverse talent pool [in terms of appointing board members and administrators].
"There is support and commitment across this agenda from all areas of the FA with the likes of [England women's manager] Hope Powell and Gareth Southgate contributing to the action plan resources.
"We're seeking to create a 'so-what?' environment and the action plan has had input from groups such as Pride Sports, Justin Campaign, Gay Football Supporters Network, Stonewall and Kick It Out."
But gay-friendly teams such as London-based Stonewall FC and Village Manchester FC believe the FA is not engaging with them.
Both feature gay and straight players in the same side and have found no opposition to playing in leagues against straight teams.

Carlisle agrees that the FA board needs to be more reflective of society. But the Northampton Town defender added: "I don't think it is fair to say that a straight, white, old man can't make representative decisions.
"With the right input of course he can, but we need to make sure the right people are around him to for him to get to that decision."
The launch comes against a backdrop in the English game where all 20 Premier League teams have recently signed the government's Sports Charter to tackle homophobia, biphobia, and transphobia in sport.
But only 16 of 92 professional clubs, including six Premier League teams, have been willing to openly back the Justin Campaign's Football v Homophobia initiative, which marks the birthday of Justin Fashanu - the only openly gay footballer in Britain - who subsequently committed suicide in 1998.
The campaign aims "to challenge the stereotypes and misconceptions that exist around lesbian, gay, bisexual & transgender people and work towards a future where the visibility of LGB&T people in football is both accepted and celebrated."
The Justin Campaign's Alan Duffy said the 16 backers were a "big improvement" after receiving no support from top-flight clubs last season.
Despite recent instances of players being fined, Carlisle thinks the majority would be "fantastically supportive" of an openly gay colleague now.
Having spoken to gay players on an anonymous basis, Carlisle believes the greatest apprehension to coming out would be the reaction in the stands.
But consultant and public speaker Amaechi, who last year was awarded an OBE, says the example of the alleged racial incident between Chelsea captain John Terry and QPR's Anton Ferdinand, shows that football fans are not to blame.
"These cases of racism are being pointed out by fans in the stands, not by officials, not by team-mates on the field," he added. "They deserve a little more credit for where they are in society.
"They have brothers and sisters and parents that are gay and they don't think it is an issue any more."
Amaechi says the new strategy lacks the backing of current players or a senior figure in football.
He added: "If the FA are really serious about ending bigotry, how about they talk to a scientist about how that is done rather than talking to another PR company?
"You are not going to end bigotry through posters and platitudes. If they come up with another video and tell you that's part of their strategy, it's just nonsense.
"Sir Alex Ferguson came out the other day and said very explicitly that racism was completely unacceptable and that, in his opinion, it was something that he would work to eradicate.
"We've never heard that kind of explicit statement from people of his stature about homophobia."

[Роберт]

another day, another campaign. hope this one sticks. and they stop using "gay" instead of LGBT

Spoiler:

The Football Association is responsible for a climate of homophobia in the game, according to former NBA basketball player John Amaechi.
The governing body launches a new six-year inclusion and anti-homophobia plan on Monday with no openly gay players among almost 3,000 professionals.
But Amaechi, who came out in 2007 and has been vocal in his criticisms of football's attitude towards homosexuality, says the issue will only be solved by greater diversity among the FA board members - not "posters and platitudes".
The FA plans to use a new video discussing homophobia in football , which features former players John Scales, Brendan Batson and Aidy Williams.
It recently fined former Leicester City player Michael Ball £6,000 after he tweeted homophobic comments and has charged West Ham's Ravel Morrison in a similar case.
Fans have also been banned after homophobic chanting at a game between Southampton and Brighton, and others have been arrested at a recent game involving Millwall and Brighton.
But Amaechi says the FA should stop pointing the finger at others and accept it is to blame.
He told BBC Sport: "I don't understand why football fans aren't more angry by the way they are portrayed by the football authorities.
"If you look at the first horrible video they did on anti-homophobia, it made it very clear that the problem lies with you. You stupid, blue-collar people in the terraces. It's you stupid urban, re black, people on the field. It's your fault.
"Then they sit in their boxes and their boardrooms and all the attention is deflected away from them.
"Well, it's 2012 and they have just appointed their first woman to the board. Does that really tell you they are a progressive organisation or they are now reacting to the fact the focus is starting to shift on to them?
"A board that has just voted a woman on to the board in 2012 is not progressive. They are by definition the problem."
Use accessible player and disable flyout menus

Carlisle thinks players would be supportive of an openly gay colleague
Professional Footballers' Association chairman Clarke Carlisle also thinks the FA needs to make a stand.
He told BBC Sport: "The responsibility lies with the national governing body. They need to make sure they set the precedent of levels of acceptance.
"Then the onus is on the players union, the football leagues, and the individual clubs to disseminate those messages."
The FA's Head of Equality, Sue Law, explained the organisation's plans.
She said: "The FA's action plan, 'Opening Doors and Joining In', is about football's commitment to inclusion and anti-homophobia.
"That sits alongside our intention for the game to draw from a wide and diverse talent pool [in terms of appointing board members and administrators].
"There is support and commitment across this agenda from all areas of the FA with the likes of [England women's manager] Hope Powell and Gareth Southgate contributing to the action plan resources.
"We're seeking to create a 'so-what?' environment and the action plan has had input from groups such as Pride Sports, Justin Campaign, Gay Football Supporters Network, Stonewall and Kick It Out."
But gay-friendly teams such as London-based Stonewall FC and Village Manchester FC believe the FA is not engaging with them.
Both feature gay and straight players in the same side and have found no opposition to playing in leagues against straight teams.

Carlisle agrees that the FA board needs to be more reflective of society. But the Northampton Town defender added: "I don't think it is fair to say that a straight, white, old man can't make representative decisions.
"With the right input of course he can, but we need to make sure the right people are around him to for him to get to that decision."
The launch comes against a backdrop in the English game where all 20 Premier League teams have recently signed the government's Sports Charter to tackle homophobia, biphobia, and transphobia in sport.
But only 16 of 92 professional clubs, including six Premier League teams, have been willing to openly back the Justin Campaign's Football v Homophobia initiative, which marks the birthday of Justin Fashanu - the only openly gay footballer in Britain - who subsequently committed suicide in 1998.
The campaign aims "to challenge the stereotypes and misconceptions that exist around lesbian, gay, bisexual & transgender people and work towards a future where the visibility of LGB&T people in football is both accepted and celebrated."
The Justin Campaign's Alan Duffy said the 16 backers were a "big improvement" after receiving no support from top-flight clubs last season.
Despite recent instances of players being fined, Carlisle thinks the majority would be "fantastically supportive" of an openly gay colleague now.
Having spoken to gay players on an anonymous basis, Carlisle believes the greatest apprehension to coming out would be the reaction in the stands.
But consultant and public speaker Amaechi, who last year was awarded an OBE, says the example of the alleged racial incident between Chelsea captain John Terry and QPR's Anton Ferdinand, shows that football fans are not to blame.
"These cases of racism are being pointed out by fans in the stands, not by officials, not by team-mates on the field," he added. "They deserve a little more credit for where they are in society.
"They have brothers and sisters and parents that are gay and they don't think it is an issue any more."
Amaechi says the new strategy lacks the backing of current players or a senior figure in football.
He added: "If the FA are really serious about ending bigotry, how about they talk to a scientist about how that is done rather than talking to another PR company?
"You are not going to end bigotry through posters and platitudes. If they come up with another video and tell you that's part of their strategy, it's just nonsense.
"Sir Alex Ferguson came out the other day and said very explicitly that racism was completely unacceptable and that, in his opinion, it was something that he would work to eradicate.
"We've never heard that kind of explicit statement from people of his stature about homophobia."

I thought everyone knew soccer was gay.

[animeHrmIne]

so totally hardcore ace

I have too many demi friends. I hear this and all I can see are thousands of cakes being eaten in a Doctor Who/Sherlock marathon. And everything is black, white, gray, and purple. Also congrats on the self-outing.

This isn't really related to the current topic of discussion, but....I just came out to one my friends and he was totally fine with it! I still the feel really jittery from the conversation...

Yay, sambot!

[lucrezaborgia]

I posted this to my FB the other day. Instead of discussion over the person holding the poster, the conversation devolved into whether or not the woman on the left was "really a man".

me: "Regardless, that is a woman. Women aren't just what are between their legs."
friend: "thats a man baby, yeah."
me: "You are aware of transgender people right?"
friend: "Cant change chromosomes."
me: "You are aware that chromosomes don't just come in XX and XY?"

*headdesk*

And to think this was someone that I thought wasn't one of the stupid people.

[Роберт]

me: "Regardless, that is a woman. Women aren't just what are between their legs."
friend: "thats a man baby, yeah."
me: "You are aware of transgender people right?"
friend: "Cant change chromosomes."
me: "You are aware that chromosomes don't just come in XX and XY?"

To your "freind": Are you aware that someone born XY can naturally have a functioning uterus and never even know that they aren't XX?

Gee willikers. A lot of the transphobic comments I see make it clear that the person doesn't even have a basic understanding of intersex.

[lucrezaborgia]

To your "freind": Are you aware that someone born XY can naturally have a functioning uterus and never even know that they aren't XX?

Gee willikers. A lot of the transphobic comments I see make it clear that the person doesn't even have a basic understanding of intersex.

I linked them to the wiki article on intersex but I kind of doubt that they read it. The idea that there isn't an absolute dichotomy in regards to sex issues is beyond a lot of people, even people who think that they are quite progressive and open!

[Роберт]

I linked them to the wiki article on intersex but I kind of doubt that they read it. The idea that there isn't an absolute dichotomy in regards to sex issues is beyond a lot of people, even people who think that they are quite progressive and open!

Maybe they needed a TL;DR version? A single sentence that says something along the lines of what said might have caught there eye enough that they actually read it.

It's kinda tiresome to keep educating people about issues like that, so good job not just ignoring that crap.

[lucrezaborgia]

It's kinda tiresome to keep educating people about issues like that, so good job not just ignoring that crap.

Probably because I get way to much joy out of wielding the clue-bat.