xkcd

by **BoomFrog** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:49 am UTC

Hello everyone, I've read most of the last day and skimmed the fearless debacle, I didn't read pretty much anything from D1 yet. Does someone have a list of all the confirmed night actions that have happened so far since this seems to be the center of the debate.

N1:
Fearless investigates Roband gets Town.
Roband roleblocks Fearless but it didn't work.
Hufflepuff?
Slitherin?
No kill

N2:
??

N3:
Roband roleblocks FAOT
FAOT protects mpolo
Mpolo watches Roband, confirms Roband targeted FAOT and no one targeted Roband.
Azreal checks ??
No Kill

N4:
Azreal checks FAOT
Greenlover killed

by **roband** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:51 am UTC

No way. FAOT was NOT acting townlike. It's you and him, has to be.

Also, what the hell was with that draw in the votals? Rookie mistake guys, basically means all of yesterday's bickering was pointless.

by **BoomFrog** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:08 am UTC

Seriously Mr. Pot? I didn't want to get into this yet but, reading through yesterday was exactly like reading through your last day alive in Smalltown.

by **roband** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:05 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Seriously Mr. Pot? I didn't want to get into this yet but, reading through yesterday was exactly like reading through your last day alive in Smalltown.

You ninja'd me - that was aimed at Az. I didn't see your post when I posted mine.
Sorry.

by **roband** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:07 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote: yesterday was exactly like reading through your last day alive in Smalltown.

I don't remember Smalltown, was I scum?

My point in saying that I think Az and FAOT are scum is that Az has a result on someone who I think is very scummy. His result does not match what I am certain of.

by **BoomFrog** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:11 am UTC

Yeah, you were scum and the lynch had been building against you and you got very aggressive and "100% convinced" that I and awan where scum.

by **roband** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:37 am UTC

Oh, well. Scum will say anything to try and get out of it, right?

I was prepared to be lynched yesterday, when I thought it meant FAOT would be outed. When I realised that no-one else agreed that we were opposite factions, I changed that stance.

I have to vote for FAOT here, or Az for his cop result (which conveniently can't be confirmed by anyone).

by **mpolo** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:10 pm UTC

The problem here for you, roband, is that I really trust Azrael at the moment. I may be mistaken about this, but I do trust him. [Not in the least because he cleared two members of my house -- myself and AdamH. Which means he could be playing us, but I suspect not.]

You, on the other hand, have been under scrutiny forever. The only thing in your favor at the moment would seem to be the town result from fearless.

I am most likely putting my vote back onto MostlyNormal. But I don't want to cut off discussion, especially before I've heard from my housemate about the results of our action.

Slytherin Actions/Reported Results

N1: AdamH investigated Azrael -> No targets and untargeted
N2: AdamH investigated Azrael -> Az targeted mpolo, Chandani targeted Az
N3: mpolo investigated roband -> visited FAOT, not targeted by another
N4: AdamH investigated Azrael

by **roband** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:12 pm UTC

Well then I don't know what else I can do.

You'll lynch me, STILL not believe me about FAOT and we'll lose.

by **Adam H** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:13 pm UTC

Az targetted FAOT, no one targetted Az.

The NL put us in great shape, IMO. I'm pretty sure that mostlynormal is scum, and if not him then Boomfrog (and my best guess is both). Roband and FAOT both have innocent results. If we are to not trust one of them, I'd say we shouldn't trust roband. But I'd rather suck all the usefulness out of our cop and then lynch HIM before lynching one of his inno results.

Vote: MostlyNormal

If we lynch another scum, then we'll most likely be down to 1 scum, and our tracking results will be foolproof.

Roband, who was roleblocked?

by **roband** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:22 pm UTC

So you're going to not trust fearless, and trust Az.

Fearless who is dead and confirmed town, said I was town.
Az, who is alive and is not confirmed town and can freely LIE about his result, said FAOT was town.

I roleblocked.. shit. No-one.

I didn't send a night action. What? I was sure I had. I can't imagine quite yet how FAOT and Az will make this mean that I'm scum, but they're probably faster thinkers than me.

by **Adam H** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:24 pm UTC

Yeah, I'm really trusting Az on this one. I just proposed we lynch him.

Did you talk with greenlover last night? What did you say?

by **roband** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:26 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:Yeah, I'm really trusting Az on this one. I just proposed we lynch him.

Did you talk with greenlover last night? What did you say?

Nothing. I was pissed off that the day ended with a NL, was offline over the weekend, and came back and forgot that I hadn't submitted anything.

Like I said at the start of the game, I have nothing to say to greenlover which I won't say in front of the whole game...

by **Adam H** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:39 pm UTC

You've got nothing to say to greenlover? Not even "hey I'm going to be the roleblocker tonight. Got a problem with that?"

Seriously, wtf. Are you and greenlover really so bad at this that neither of you took the action? You are worthless. At this point I couldn't care less if you are town, I just want you to shut up.

Unvote

Vote: Roband

by **roband** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:42 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:You've got nothing to say to greenlover? Not even "hey I'm going to be the roleblocker tonight. Got a problem with that?"

Seriously, wtf. Are you and greenlover really so bad at this that neither of you took the action? You are worthless. At this point I couldn't care less if you are town, I just want you to shut up.

Unvote

Vote: Roband

In each of the past nights it's been a case of "let's not discuss who we're going to roleblock, because someone might be scum" and I've made the decision by myself. Last night, I thought I'd sent the action, but hadn't. The previous night consisted of me messaging the mod saying "Block XXXX unless Greenlover doesn't want me to have the RB".
Greenlover is a lurker, I'm not going to message him, because ONE, I have nothing to say and TWO, I doubt he'd've replied.

Seriously man, use your logic. If I was scum, I'd have blocked Az, or something.

by **Mostlynormal** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:47 pm UTC

Azrael001 wrote:I investigated FAOT, he is a student. This makes me more inclined to think that mostlynormal was hoping to get us to lynch two town.

Vote: mostlynormal

If you truly believe FAOT is town, why are you voting me and not Roband? I've said it a million times.

Here, I'll lay out my reasoning, because I want to know exactly what part you disagree with:

Premise: FAOT is town
Fact: There was no nightkill two nights ago
Fact: The doctor was blocked
Conclusion: Either the roleblocked person was scum, or scum withheld their kill
Fact: FAOT was roleblocked
Conclusion: Scum withheld their kill (lines 1 and 5)
Fact: Scum would rather have a kill than no kill
Fact: Scum would rather get a townie lynched than have a kill
Conclusion: If scum withheld their kill, scum thought they could get a townie lynched
Fact: Roband was the only one who knew he was blocking FAOT
Probable: scum very probably would have no reason to withhold the kill without Roband's information (line 9 and info from two nights ago)
Probable conclusion: Roband is scum

I suppose we disagree on how "probable" that second to last line is. But to me it seems nearly impossible that scum knew enough to withhold the kill without Roband's information.

Anyway, the only reason I'm not putting a vote out yet is I'm not sure who's scummier: FAOT or Roband. They're really both so scummy that even if we didn't have the information from two nights ago I'd beleive that one of them was scum.

Ninja'd: It's funny, FAOT also doctored no one. Roband's point about cop reliability makes some sense, except that if Roband is really innocent then T1mm was a roleblocker and so it's also possible we have godfathers. ~~Since I can already sense the bandwagon rolling, and I don't want to be lynched:~~

Vote: Roband

Because if he flips scum we'll be at 4v1 worst case, and if he flips town we've won because we know FAOT and Az are scum. (In the FAOT lynch, we'll get 3v2 with one scum still unknown if he's town, winning in the best case if he's scum)

Ninja'd again: Ok so I'm not under threat, but the above reasoning still makes me want to vote Roband

by **roband** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:51 pm UTC

If I can get enough people to tell me that lynching me means that they will next lynch FAOT and Az, I'll self vote myself into oblivion. MN seems to have his head on right.

Seriously.

by **Adam H** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:09 pm UTC

roband wrote:Seriously man, use your logic. If I was scum, I'd have blocked Az, or something.

No, if you were scum, greenlover would have held the roleblock hostage by saying that he was taking the action.

by **roband** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:12 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:
roband wrote:Seriously man, use your logic. If I was scum, I'd have blocked Az, or something.
No, if you were scum, greenlover would have held the roleblock hostage by saying that he was taking the action.

But greenlover wouldn't have known I was scum to stop me from taking the power and using it for evil.

He's trusted me with it up til now, as far as I'm aware - nothing changed.

Whatever dude. Like I've said, if you can agree that once I'm revealed as town, this outs FAOT and Az, I won't wait to be pushed, I will jump.

by **Adam H** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:41 pm UTC

Greenlover was an idiot for letting you take the power every night. I cannot understand what was going through his mind these past few nights since the fearless lynch.

roband wrote:Whatever dude. Like I've said, if you can agree that once I'm revealed as town, this outs FAOT and Az, I won't wait to be pushed, I will jump.

This has been quite the game for self-votes. I guess it worked out for fearless, but lataro sure looks like a jackass.

Honestly, I don't know which I want more, for town to win or for you to be wrong. So yeah, FAOT and Az will be next if you're town. If MN and BF win, then it's on you and I can reference this game whenever I need to remind how dumb you are.

btw, mpolo is about 100% town. I told him I was tracking either Az or mpolo, which means that if Az and mpolo are the 2 scum, they would really want me dead (especially since I was vouching hard for mpolo the last few days). Right? And with Az's cop on mpolo, we can be pretty sure that if Az is town, mpolo is town. So if az is scum or az is town, mpolo is town.

Wait, who did doc target last night?

by **Adam H** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:43 pm UTC

EBWOP:

oh wait, I just saw MN's post -

1) FAOT really didn't target anyone?
2) YOU LET FAOT TAKE THE TARGET? ARE YOU FUCKING INSANE?!?

by **roband** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:46 pm UTC

Does it matter who the doc targeted?

Thank you for accepting that you'll vote Az/FAOT. It doesn't really matter which one you lynch first, because they both have only-useful-as-town powers.

One more person needs to say they'll vote FAOT and Az and I'll self vote.

Also - when it ends up that I'm right, I think you should all not post very much, so that I am guaranteed the House win. Especially you Adam. I want you to feel bad, after saying "Honestly, I don't know which I want more, for town to win or for you to be wrong." Feel bad dude

But seriously, when I'm proven right, that would be a nice gesture from you all.

ninja - yeah that's a slip up, but it's hardly matters at this point.

If FAOT is scum, then so is Az, therefore MN is not.
If FAOT is town (not so, I think), then it is good that he had the doc.

by **Adam H** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:52 pm UTC

roband wrote:But seriously, when I'm proven right, that would be a nice gesture from you all.

When you're proven right, the game will be over. I guess I'll just have to assume you're gonna be wrong and post a lot.

by **roband** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:53 pm UTC

So you don't think that I'll be proven right when I'm lynched and come out town?

Lynch FAOT first once I'm dead. Because that confirms without doubt that Az is also scum.

by **Adam H** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:12 pm UTC

No, it wouldn't mean you're right. Why would it mean you're right? We've been over this! You roleblocked town N1 with the same results.

I plan on lynching FAOT and Az because either you're wrong or you're right, and I'm seriously happy whichever way it goes.

by **roband** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:14 pm UTC

But you won't do that before I'm dead? Wonderful.

Truth be told, I've had enough of this game. I'm certain about enough, to make it clear to me. But there's no way I can prove anything.

by **Adam H** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:16 pm UTC

If I did that before you're lynched than you will likely be scum who successfully manipulated me! Worst of all possible scenarios!

by **ForAllOfThis** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:18 pm UTC

Yea. I had an extremely busy past few days, lots of job applications and a driving test so yea been a little pre-occupied and the night ended without warning, so didn't get a target in. I was holding off to find some time to analyse who I thought would be the best possible target and time ran out, no warning of the immediate deadline

.

So, Az has confirmed me as town which makes me think that he is town. Although if he was scum he would have no choice but to confirm people as town, as pointing a finger at town claiming scum would result in his immediate lynch. I find it surprising we haven't had any scum results actually, so there's some possibility that Az could be scum, or his power is being manipulated? Still, I think we're looking at a MN & Roband scum team or a MN & BF scum team.

I don't agree with MN's reasoning, or robands. They are both completely ignoring the fearless situation and are now ignoring this situation, AGAIN. If roband is somehow town (which is looking less and less likely to me) it only proves that something weird went on with him and fearless and him and me, not that I'm scum. Still, I think two weird results is looking less likely to be a coincidence, and more likely to be a scum result.

Vote: Roband

by **roband** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:21 pm UTC

From your point of view, I guess so.

As far as I can, I've made this pretty clear, to the point of falling on my own sword (or promising to, at least) - the rest of town had better not mess this up once I'm gone.

ninja'd - sorry dude, not buying it.

by **Mostlynormal** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:13 pm UTC

ForAllOfThis wrote:I don't agree with MN's reasoning, or robands. They are both completely ignoring the fearless situation and are now ignoring this situation, AGAIN. If roband is somehow town (which is looking less and less likely to me) it only proves that something weird went on with him and fearless and him and me, not that I'm scum. Still, I think two weird results is looking less likely to be a coincidence, and more likely to be a scum result.

In the fearless situation we didn't know Roband was town. If, after lynching him, we know for a fact that Roband and all of his housemates (GL at that time) were town, then we'll know you have to be scum. If on the other hand Roband flips scum, then good for you, you're town, and good for us, we've lynched scum. But if Roband flips town then the obvious explanation for the fearless situation is that scum had a roleblocker (and T1mm was in Gryffindor), and the explanation for two nights ago is obviously that you were scum carrying out the kill and you got blocked. So don't try to weasel out of it. Though from a practical point of view lynching Roband is more beneficial (better safe than sorry, see reasoning above) you're looking scummier by the minute.

by **Azrael001** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:45 pm UTC

I really think that Mostlynormal is the obvious choice here. Of the people that are left we have something like four reported town.

roband Town from fearless (least trusted result because of weirdness)
Azrael001
mostlynormal
Adam H I got town
ForAllOfThis I got town
mpolo I got town
Boomfrog

It is insanity to be lynching reported town when there are people who are scummy and not investigated. If the investigations are right, then we will be spending two days lynching town. mostlynormal pushing for the double, and now triple lynch strikes me as scum knowing what the results of both lynches will be.

If you don't trust me, you should be lynching me so that you can confirm or not my investigations.

by **Mostlynormal** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:22 pm UTC

Azrael001 wrote:roband Town from fearless (least trusted result because of weirdness)
Azrael001
mostlynormal
Adam H I got town
ForAllOfThis I got town
mpolo I got town
Boomfrog

If you don't trust me, you should be lynching me so that you can confirm or not my investigations.

Wow, really? fearless is confirmed town and that's the least trusted result? I mean sure it's possible that Roband is a Godfather but come on! Yeah, of course I don't trust you! Isn't it convenient that all of the people you investigated were town and all are still alive? Thanks for laying that out for me, by the way. I'd switch my vote right now but I'm going to be patient because like I've pointed out before, Roband flipping town will still give us plenty of time to lynch the both of you (while if FAOT was somehow town we have no idea who Roband's scumbuddy would be). You're just digging yourself deeper though. There's no way I'm going to let you go free if Roband flips town.

Actually, screw it. I'm convinced I know who the scum is at this point.

Vote: FAOT

by **Azrael001** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:32 pm UTC

fearless was supposedly blocked by the person who she investigated. This is why the results are the least trusted. Notice however that I am not trying to lynch roband right now however, I'm trying to lynch you.

by **Mostlynormal** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:43 pm UTC

Azrael001 wrote:fearless was supposedly blocked by the person who she investigated. This is why the results are the least trusted. Notice however that I am not trying to lynch roband right now however, I'm trying to lynch you.

That doesn't matter, she actually got the results, then reported them. Unless she was lying for no reason, Roband is either town or a Godfather. Him not being a godfather is not something I can trust too well, but I trust even less that you're town. I guess I can see from your side that it would be the least trusted, since you know your own results.

Allright, I'll back down for now. But don't think you can pull some kind of "Well weird stuff is going on" crap on me. If Roband flips town, I'm heading straight to lynching the two of you.

Unvote

Vote: Roband

Wait, you're not trying to lynch Roband, you're trying to lynch me? You're the cop! You're the only one that can trust your results! What part of my argument (posted above) that FAOT is town-->Roband is scum do you disagree with?

by **Azrael001** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:50 pm UTC

That both of them have investigation results that have come up town?

Unless there is some scum power that can consistently obfuscate the results of an investigation, which would be both extremely powerful, and not really something that I would expect in a "newbies game", then none of the results are trustworthy and we are back to square one.

That is why I propose lynching mostlynormal, and then, if we haven't won, every remaining player but me will have been investigated, which would then imply that there is a godfather, which is probably roband.

by **Mostlynormal** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:15 pm UTC

Azrael001 wrote:Unless there is some scum power that can consistently obfuscate the results of an investigation, which would be both extremely powerful, and not really something that I would expect in a "newbies game", then none of the results are trustworthy and we are back to square one.

Wait, what? Since when is a Godfather an "extremely powerful" role that you wouldn't find in a newbie game? I was a godfather in my very first game ever. And pulling the "newbie friendly game" card doesn't really help your case. In the absence of any "extremely powerful" powers, what could have possibly motivated a me and BF scumteam to withhold the kill two nights ago? A much better explanation--from your point of view--is that Roband was a Godfather and he is scum. So why are you so intent on lynching me? Possibly because you know Roband is town and lynching him will incriminate you and your scumbuddy? I'm once again tempted to switch my vote but I won't this time.

by **Azrael001** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:24 pm UTC

I mean in the absence of a godfather, there are few other ways that a result could be obtained that is incorrect, especially in a game that shouldn't have experimental new roles.

Assuming that the roleblock was messed up in some other way, there is no particular reason to think Roband has any greater likelihood of being a godfather than anyone else.

Personally I think that we'll win as soon as we lynch you.

by **Adam H** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:40 pm UTC

You think there was only 2 scum?

by **Azrael001** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:44 pm UTC

Has there really only been one scum death? I didn't do a mental count. No, I don't think that there is only one scum left, but I do think that it makes more sense to use the pool of people that haven't been investigated and reported town before lynching someone who has a slim chance of being the godfather.

by **Adam H** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:24 pm UTC

Azrael001 wrote:Has there really only been one scum death? I didn't do a mental count.

Hehehe. When you're counting to one, "count" really isn't the right choice of words.

So you are clueless AND overcertain. Lovely.

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