Mass Effect 3 (Seriously, Use Spoilers People!)

[Belial]

I suspect the bioware rep misspoke, and that it actually ships with all new copies. Project 10 dollars (or whatever they call it, I forget) dictates that all EA games ship with 10 dollars worth of free DLC that has to be repurchased if you buy the game used. That tends to be how they go with day-one DLC.

[Xeio]

Zaeed wasn't really any different, he was basically just an extra mission with legs.*

*This is assuming, as Belial said, that this is actually free on all copies, not just the collectors edition. Otherwise it's a strange turn given that there doesn't seem to be any day1 DLC included in the normal edition.

[SirBryghtside]

Off-topic thing I noticed whilst replaying ME: Listen to this at 1:10 (segment 3), then this.

What the..?!

I will never listen to the Suicide Mission in the same way again. And I listen to the Suicide Mission a LOT.

[Xanthir]

Shepard spent the end of ME2 walking around with a Geth, the apparent scourge of the galaxy. Nobody cared. I think they're okay with your party members not mattering to the rest of the story.

[Xeio]

I suspect the bioware rep misspoke, and that it actually ships with all new copies. Project 10 dollars (or whatever they call it, I forget) dictates that all EA games ship with 10 dollars worth of free DLC that has to be repurchased if you buy the game used. That tends to be how they go with day-one DLC.

So it seems like this was the plan all along, including the trailer for the collectors edition back in November which mentions an extra squadmate/mission.

I'm moderately disappointed now, granted, I was thinking about getting the CE anyway, but...

[Ryom]

Right, but that happened essentially between games. I'm thinking having a prothean around should be changing some major shit during the game. But it can't have too massive an effect (lollerskates) and still be optional, can it?

I just wanted to highlight this post and remind you of our very recent previous conversation regarding DLC I believed was inherent to the story already given behind held for ransom... If this is part of the collectors edition only or purchasable Day-1 DLC. I'm not wild about project $10 but I understand it. Also, ANYTHING to do with the protheans is a big, huge, massive deal in the ME universe. This sort of thing as DLC just doesn't bode well.

Also please watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 0vrJ-y2zM#!

And this:

Spoiler:

As most of you know, yesterday there was a leak that revealed the upcoming DLC “ME3:From Ashes” on the
Xbox LIVE Marketplace. This leak took place before we were prepared to make an announcement about the details of that pack (slated for this Friday).

There has been a lot of discussion about the DLC offering but we wanted to clarify a few things...

- “From Ashes” includes the Prothean squad mate, an adventure on Eden Prime, a new weapon, and an alternate
appearance for every squad mate. Note that these alternate appearances are in addition to the ones already advertised in the CE.

- The Collectors Edition has been advertised from the beginning as containing a bonus character/mission, but we were not at liberty to provide the details. The Prothean is optional content that is certainly designed to appeal to long-time fans, which is why he is part of the CE offering (the version many fans would be likely to purchase). Mass Effect 3 is a complete – and a huge game - right out of the box.

- The content in “From Ashes” was developed by a separate team (after the core game was finished) and not completed until well after the main game went into certification.

- The Collectors Edition has been sold out in most places for some time now, and is becoming very hard to find (many players prefer not to purchase the digital version). As such, we wanted to make this content available so that SE buyers could also incorporate the Prothean into their game.

We’ll be releasing someimages and video about this pack in the coming days.

As always, we are extremely thankful for all of your support. We pulled out all of the stops to make Mass Effect 3 the best game ever, and we can't wait for you all to experience it.

Mike

Spoiler:

If it was developed after the core game, how come there are dialogue files for the Prothean in the leaks?

I've never quite bought into the reasoning that day-1 DLC was just something that couldn't be finished in time for release. I believe that is disingenuous... more rightly to say it is content that was designed to not be ready in time for release. It has also been stated the the intro of the demo is the exact into as the full game. Why on Earth would they not address the trial of Shepard? That seems like a pretty major event to just ignore and it seems like the perfect place to allow imported players to define their actions from previous games and provide prior story exposition to new players.

[Vaniver]

Shepard spent the end of ME2 walking around with a Geth, the apparent scourge of the galaxy. Nobody cared. I think they're okay with your party members not mattering to the rest of the story.

Uh, the Quarians noticed. (But only when you tried to bring it on their ship.)

[Will]

Hehe, yeah, that was fun.

[Yakk]

Localization and media has a much longer lead time than development of other assets, esp. with voice that needs to interact with other characters. You can easily finish one part of a game long before you finish day 1 DLC while still shipping assets with the main game or even having your voice assets complete before main game development is done. Heck, you could do the voice work on the DLC after all voice on main game and have it done prior to starting DLC code development and level work.

Not that this matters. Who cares when it was done other than customers who have hangups?

[Belial]

Also please watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 0vrJ-y2zM#!

Wow, I sure did spend half an hour listening to some guy outline his purchasing preferences as though they were moral edicts.

Honestly? If the game is coherent without the DLC (and I will be pretty astonished if it isn't) then the fact that the DLC contains something important isn't proof that the game shipped incomplete, it's proof that there's a better game out there that costs 70 dollars rather than 60 (and honestly, isn't it weird that massive and important games cost the same as short and crappy ones anyway?), but it's cool, because bioware will let you pay the difference to upgrade.

The more I think about it, the more I expect the Prothean to just be a source of historical commentary and perspective. While that's really cool, and something long term fans will want, that's probably not essential to the story.

I'm a bit disappointed that the Prothean isn't part of project 10 dollars, but hey, whatever, I bought the CE anyway, so it's a moot point for me.

If it was developed after the core game, how come there are dialogue files for the Prothean in the leaks?

Because the demo was extracted from a game file that had the DLC installed, if I had to guess...

[Gelsamel]

I really liked the first ME's story and setting. Then ME2 did the Shepard dying but not really dying thing, the "I'm engineered to be the perfect person" thing and the Reapers are Soylent Cyborgs thing (thereby removing everything that was awesome about them) and the last boss is a giant human skeleton thing. The gameplay was smoother but I disliked the reduction of the RPG elements, because that is always fun for me; building characters and collecting gear. But at least it was fun as a 3rd Person Shooter.

But now ME3 is doing this whole Ashley fanservice thing and the "zomg actually there is still a Prothean around (or we regenerated one as the title suggests), whoa"... I have no hope for its narrative anymore, it's worse than I've seen in some of the most ridiculous soap operas. I wouldn't be surprised if Kaiden/Ashley (whichever dies for your Shepard) comes back because Ceberus regenerates them and uses them as a weapon against Shepard until you get them back on your side again. I thought maybe ME3's narrative wouldn't be as bad as ME2 was... but it seems not.

I hope the game play is even more smoother else I don't see much reason to play it, maybe I'll just stick to multiplayer. Oh well.

[Faithful]

I honestly don't care that much about how outrageous they make the plot line. I played ME2 4+ times just to have different endings with relationships / classes / etc so that when ME3 comes out, I can play through all the endings. Only the one game where I used my save from ME1 is 100% complete except for the newest DLC.

I just want to see how my Shepard / Ashley , Shepard / Tali, Shepard / Miranda, and Shepard / Jack end up. I loved the feeling of affecting the relationships in this game.

It's like a story for me. An interactive book if you will with details missing so you can extrapolate better.

[Gelsamel]

Thats interesting because I played Shepard as an asexual but apparently that isn't a valid way to play her so you just miss out on content instead. Of course, It doesn't need to be said; the world takes all types.

[Xeio]

Also please watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 0vrJ-y2zM#!

Wow, I sure did spend half an hour listening to some guy outline his purchasing preferences as though they were moral edicts.

He also complained about the blood dragon armor, and pre-order bonuses of different weapons. Basically, anything that's not an 'art asset' because those silly artists are the only ones that might have free time nearing a game's release (or in the month between the game being finalized and released?).

[Belial]

Thats interesting because I played Shepard as an asexual but apparently that isn't a valid way to play her so you just miss out on content instead.

Well...yes? If you play asexual and aromantic, you're going to miss out on the relationship content, because the relationship is the content (it's not like it leads to new missions or items). I'm...not sure what you'd want to do about this? Are you suggesting that there should be a similar mini-plotline for asexuality? What would that entail? Using the time you're not banging freaky aliens to crochet an afghan?

[maybeagnostic]

Thats interesting because I played Shepard as an asexual but apparently that isn't a valid way to play her so you just miss out on content instead.

You also miss out on content if you don't go on some of your companions' loyalty missions. *gasp* They're not forcing you to play through all of the content before you finish the game?

I really liked the first ME's story and setting. Then ME2 did the Shepard dying but not really dying thing, the "I'm engineered to be the perfect person" thing and the Reapers are Soylent Cyborgs thing (thereby removing everything that was awesome about them) and the last boss is a giant human skeleton thing. The gameplay was smoother but I disliked the reduction of the RPG elements, because that is always fun for me; building characters and collecting gear. But at least it was fun as a 3rd Person Shooter.

The whole series is a space opera. ME1 had the "Shepard is obviously the hero chosen by destiny to save us because... humans are several orders of magnitude smaller than reapers and you need a really big ship rather than a person to hurt one?", AI got out of control and tried to exterminate its creators, "aliens are just lobster headed humans", a race of blue space strippers, techno-zombies and so on. The games aren't good because of a very interesting and original world or story, they are good because they present the world and story really well. I thought ME2 was on the same level as ME1 in that respect.

I can think of more examples of little gems that really made the setting come to life for me in ME2 than in ME1. The sergeant on the Citadel shouting to the recruits about not behaving like cowboys shooting from the hip; the human, turian, and salarian on the salarian's 'bachelor party' watching the asari dancer; the asari matron bartender with a krogan father; the krogan 'scientist' complaining about not getting to work on stuff that explodes.

[Belial]

the asari matron bartender with a krogan father

Fun fact: it is very, very strongly implied that she is Liara's "Father".

Corroborated by her mentioning she had a pureblood daughter that she lost track of when relations with her mother went sour (which lines up pretty exactly with liara's story about Benezia), and the fact that the Shadow Broker's video files have a clip of her holding and looking at a small portrait of Liara.

It sortof makes Liara's sudden turn-for-the-badass make sense, doesn't it?

[An Enraged Platypus]

Fleeting, only vaguely ME related thought: I thought initially ME3 was like TOR, which you have to have an Origin account for but don't need to run via Origin. I didn't really want Origin, so I preordered via a store. Then it hit me: I haven't set foot in a game store for a year, that's how seamless the online vendor is these days.

[maybeagnostic]

Fun fact: it is very, very strongly implied that she is Liara's "Father".

Corroborated by her mentioning she had a pureblood daughter that she lost track of when relations with her mother went sour (which lines up pretty exactly with liara's story about Benezia), and the fact that the Shadow Broker's video files have a clip of her holding and looking at a small portrait of Liara.

It sortof makes Liara's sudden turn-for-the-badass make sense, doesn't it?

Huh, I need to go watch more of those clips then. I was surprised by how much stuff there is to do in the Shadow Broker layer. I guess none of it is really game breaking though except the (rather cheap) companion respec which should've really been on the Normandy.

On a very tenuous connection to that note, how does planet exploration work in ME3? Scanning was a mild improvement over the mako but I really hope they come up with something more exciting or at least less tedious.

[Chewbaccawacca]

I disagree, I loved tooling around in the Mako exploring the surface of the world. Admittedly it wasn't the best experience (sheer mountain cliffs anyone?) but when held up to planet scanning (which I thought was the best thing ever... for about 5 minutes) I got more enjoyment out of it in the long run.

Maybe for 3 it would be cool if they had like a mix of the two, so you don't have to spend hours doing a job that most people would have to be paid to do. Perhaps if they "fix" the Mako controls as well, so as to not make it so unbearable for the gamers who hated it in ME. In any case, I know that at the least the Mako is still in the canon of the Mass Effect Universe. You can see several of them in the background of the extended edition of the Take Earth Back trailer (which makes me squee every time I watch it).

[Yakk]

Really, there should be a mixture of some planets that can be scanned, some requiring Mako runs, some requiring flying through a hostile environment while scanning, some requiring firing probes at the resource bearing asteroids while avoiding other asteriods, some a shooting gallery where you have to fight through hostile lifeforms in the Mako from a safe landing spot to reach the resources, etc.

It isn't as if they lack the budget to develop a few dozen mini games for each task, instead of just one mini game per type of task. With multiple mini games for each task (representing different complications), players can be good at some (and skip others if they don't like them). Ideally you'd be able to figure out what complication gets in the way of extracting the resources at the point of orbit, or even by looking at the planet from the system view.

I get rather bored with all of the 5 or so mini games they introduce in modern RPGs. They get tedious quickly.

[Belial]

I don't like tedium. The mako explorations were, for the most part, tedious and repetitive. The scanning and probing was also tedious and repetitive, but fuck, at least it didn't involve four load screens. If they reduced the number of explorations to a much smaller number (with higher rewards for each) and made each of them different and interesting, I'd be down. Otherwise, I could utterly cope with just getting rid of resource-gathering entirely.

Ninja'd a bit by yakk

[Xeio]

Perhaps if they "fix" the Mako controls as well, so as to not make it so unbearable for the gamers who hated it in ME.

The firewalker missions for ME2 were pretty fun, at least it part because it controlled nothing like the mako. But they also weren't all faceless auto-generated planets with nothing except the exactly 3 landmarks.

[Chewbaccawacca]

I don't like tedium.

I suppose they did tend towards tedium, though truthfully that's a bit of their appeal for me. The driving around on barren planets for me provided a sense of scale and... universalyness (heh) that would have otherwise not been there should everywhere had everything to do. Likewise for planet scanning, the tedium of what was basically sitting at a computer terminal doing something really boring (like my job! But in space, not like my job!), added a sense of realism that helped with my personal immersion into the world (granted the Commander shouldn't be doing it but whatever).

It was at those (tedious) moments when (again for me) I was sitting in the ready-room of the Enterprise preparing a Captains Log, I was cleaning the dirt from the joints of an astromech droid ruminating on my plans for the weekend, or perhaps I was strolling down the dirt streets of the Eavesdown Docks tasting the local dog to see if it was any good. My point is that, in my opinion the tedium (INNNN SPAAAAAAACE) helped to offset the massive excitement of all the cool blowey-upy moments and getting sexed in the rest of the game.

Now truthfully I'm not sure how this is going to play out in ME3 since from the start of the game (apparently) you're racing against the clock right at the get-go to save the galaxy from the Reapers, somehow I don't think that will allow for much down time throughout the game. More's the pity.

[maybeagnostic]

Now truthfully I'm not sure how this is going to play out in ME3 since from the start of the game (apparently) you're racing against the clock right at the get-go to save the galaxy from the Reapers, somehow I don't think that will allow for much down time throughout the game. More's the pity.

ME1 and ME2 also tried to give a certain urgency to the plot development which really didn't mesh with Shepard going to random out-of-the-way planets to explore for the sake of exploring. I think the planet descriptions are one of the best parts of the game and I'll be really sad if they're missing.

My biggest problem with the mako was how it made all the planets feel exactly the same. You would land at worlds with anything from one tenth to five times Earth gravity and there was a great opportunity to drive home how different they are by just having the mako handle differently but it always bounced around and quickly reached terminal velocity as if you were always on the same planet with 0.1g and a thick atmosphere. The environments themselves were very beautiful and corresponded with the description of the planets really well and I was a little sad to see them go.

Otherwise, I could utterly cope with just getting rid of resource-gathering entirely.

ME2 kind of did that. I had all upgrades and 350k+ of each resource (except eezo) left over after exploring about a third of the planets so for the rest of them I only read the descriptions and landed if I found missions.

[Chewbaccawacca]

I had all upgrades and 350k+ of each resource (except eezo) left over after exploring about a third of the planets so for the rest of them I only read the descriptions and landed if I found missions.

That's so weird, a buddy of mine had the same experience. But I remember vividly how after searching planet after planet after planet (exhaustive grid pattern search 1-1.5 full planetary rotation) for hours at a time and only barely scraping enough resources to get all the upgrades. I don't know why there's such disparity between our experiences?

[maybeagnostic]

I had all upgrades and 350k+ of each resource (except eezo) left over after exploring about a third of the planets so for the rest of them I only read the descriptions and landed if I found missions.

That's so weird, a buddy of mine had the same experience. But I remember vividly how after searching planet after planet after planet (exhaustive grid pattern search 1-1.5 full planetary rotation) for hours at a time and only barely scraping enough resources to get all the upgrades. I don't know why there's such disparity between our experiences?

I only ever bothered searching rich planets and stopped as soon as I hit moderate level unless I was almost done. I think the difference in the amounts of resources and their concentration is huge between different planets- there were a few rich planets that I need 25-30 probes to get to depleted so I probably got ~50k resources from each of those.

[Chewbaccawacca]

Hmmm, I searched all planets equally. But I never had as much luck as you say, I remember once leaving a planet with <40k and being ecstatic at my find.

[Belial]

The resource distribution isn't precisely realistic: if you're near a "hot spot" and you fire a probe, the entire hot spot disappears, even if you only hit the edge of it and barely get anything. You can "lose" a loooot of resources by failing to center the probe on the biggest concentration of minerals before firing.

[Chewbaccawacca]

Yeah, I took that into account with my search. I would always scan everywhere around a spike to make sure that I'm getting the optimum return from my probes. From what I've heard it seems that everyone was just swimming in resources by the end of the game, and that was a very different outcome than I had.

Spoiler:

Well, that and the fact that by the time I was done Garrus had died.

[Ryom]

http://social.bioware.com/project/8005/#details -->Mass Effect 2 Save Game Reader

Can't remember your decisions from your different player characters? This will tell you what decisions you've made to help you decide which to import into ME3.

[Lucrece]

There are also database websites where users upload their save files with descriptions on what choices they made, so you can download that file and use it on ME3 if you wanted to import a particular backstory/choices and lost/don't have a prior save file.

The rudimentary "background" and even the ME2 interactive comic still leave some events in ME1 out so you got a default of certain characters being dead in ME2. That's what these save files are for.

[Gelsamel]

Thats interesting because I played Shepard as an asexual but apparently that isn't a valid way to play her so you just miss out on content instead.

Well...yes? If you play asexual and aromantic, you're going to miss out on the relationship content, because the relationship is the content (it's not like it leads to new missions or items). I'm...not sure what you'd want to do about this? Are you suggesting that there should be a similar mini-plotline for asexuality? What would that entail? Using the time you're not banging freaky aliens to crochet an afghan?

Aromantic was a word I used was it? If you're asexual but romantic then there is no climax to any relationship you can take part in, you simply outright tell them 'no' to sex/sexual-things and thats it, the end. One might be able to explain this away by saying there are no asexual characters but that isn't an excuse for no homosexual relationship options as much as it's an excuse for no asexual relationship options. Why can't I have a Shepard who loves someone who loves them back while not wanting to do sexual things and have in-setting confirmation of that?

All that being said, yes, there should be content for the aromantic asexual as well. For instance more interactions and insights with other characters/crewpeople that are only available if you don't trip any relationship flags. From a realism standpoint this is like spending the time you would have spent maintaining/persuing a relationship with simply getting to know a bunch of other people better. This is just one example of aesthetic (as in, non-mission/item/stuff that matters) content that might be specific to an aromantic asexual character, or simply a character who isn't interested in the relationships available.

I don't see why it is bad that homosexuals get the short straw (missing out on subplot content) rather than just a 'different straw' (different subplot content) while it's fine for asexuals or aromantics to get the short straw. Of course, it's bad in both cases. It would be simple to develop a few alternate scenes or a short subplot that only happens for a Shepard who isn't persuing a relationship.

[Vaniver]

All that being said, yes, there should be content for the aromantic asexual as well. For instance more interactions and insights with other characters/crewpeople that are only available if you don't trip any relationship flags.

This happens in ME2: Mordin has lines for people that don't trip any relationship flags.

[edit]

I don't see why it is bad that homosexuals get the short straw (missing out on subplot content) rather than just a 'different straw' (different subplot content) while it's fine for asexuals or aromantics to get the short straw.

I think a major sore point was that it looked like the voice actors recorded the lines for gay relationships, and then it was decided to not include that content, rather than the content not existing in the first place. If they wrote and voiced a chaste relationship with Samara but then cut it, that'd be worse than never including it in the first place.

[edit 2]Wait a minute, you can have a chaste relationship with Samara. Does that count for your asexual subplot?

[Gelsamel]

All that being said, yes, there should be content for the aromantic asexual as well. For instance more interactions and insights with other characters/crewpeople that are only available if you don't trip any relationship flags.

This happens in ME2: Mordin has lines for people that don't trip any relationship flags.

Interesting, I didn't know that. Relationship flags in ME2 only or ME1 as well?

[edit 2]Wait a minute, you can have a chaste relationship with Samara. Does that count for your asexual subplot?

Samara isn't asexual though and if you try to pursue something more than friendship she rejects you for ideological reasons.

Another option for the aromantic Shepard might be friendship/camaraderie subplot. But like I said there is many different things that they could have added for Shepard to do if they aren't interested in love. I don't have a relationship to maintain, nor am I pursuing a relationship in real life but it doesn't mean I do -nothing- it means I do other things. Certainly that is reasoning enough to include content on par with the romance/sex subplots for an asexual or aromantic Shepard, especially with all the saving the world that needs doing... it's not like Shepard would just take up a hobby in their free time.

[Jesse]

My female Shepard rocked a non-sexual relationship with Kelly throughout. From first meeting her to coming to rely on her to pretty much run the ship and the admin side of things, becoming less formal and more friendly over time. When she was kidnapped I was horrified, and raced to save her as fast as I could, which was when I realised that friendship had turned into love, but I still never hit up the sexual side of things, that wasn't the appeal of Kelly, it was her as a person that my Shepard was in love with.

[Belial]

Another option for the aromantic Shepard might be friendship/camaraderie subplot.

Those are already in the game though. They're called Loyalty quests. Because, as it turns out, sexual people also have friendships. In fact, the loyalty quests are drastically more important than the romances. They are actual missions, they actually affect mission success, and so on. The romance plotlines are just fluff.

For not pursuing romantic and sexual relationships, what you get is done faster. Kindof like what you get for being atheist is an extra hour of sleep on sunday.

[Enokh]

Because if the purpose of putting these things in the game is to include everyone, then the developers start playing a losing game.

And, yes, the content in ME2 has plenty of non-sexual friendship subplots, though as a non-asexual/aromantic then I guess I might not be able to accurately tell if that's true.

[SlyReaper]

So I've gone ahead and pre-ordered it. I really really wanted to avoid installing Origin, but I'll have to bear it if I want to see how this series ends.

Slightly worrying: the game does not show up in my games list in Origin. Shouldn't it be there as an entry, without a download option, like what Steam does when you pre-order something? I've also not received a confirmation email, even though the money has come out of my bank account. Is that normal for Origin? If so, I'm starting to understand why people dislike it.

[Xeio]

The lack of confirmation mail is abnormal from what I remember, but I'll have to wait till lunch when I'm home to be able to check if I've gotten one for my other orders.

The pre-pay is normal though, I think there should be lots of warnings to that effect when you are ordering (at least, there are on Impluse, I though there were on Origin as well).

I'm guessing this is because of some of the pre-order promotions like free games but it seems to happen even if those aren't in effect though. I generally don't bother pre-ordering more than a week or two in advance for digital items anyway (because they can't run out of stock and there's a chance of a better deal coming around).