Mass Effect 3 (Seriously, Use Spoilers People!)

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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Chewbaccawacca » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:36 pm UTC

You know what I wanna see in terms of lore and not-shep-specific stuff? I want to see human (and alien I suppose) carriers. I don't recall any cut-scenes or anything in which carrier class ships were shown, specifically carriers launching/recovering fighters. In fact before the ME3 trailers I don't remember ever seeing fighters as well. Having grown up with Star Wars the space fighter-carrier dynamic has always been close to my heart and a favored trope of mine. The trailers have given me hope, but that's what I'm really pulling for. It doesn't have to be a huge prominent role, I just want to see some of the stuff they've talked about in the codex entries given some love.


*EDIT* Though truthfully it's been a long time since I've finished both games, I don't know if I'm just not remembering correctly.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Belial » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:52 pm UTC

It's honestly really frigging difficult to tell what's a frigate and what's a fighter without size comparisons.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Chewbaccawacca » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:24 pm UTC

Verily! Their design is so similar. Though I'm digging that clip in the Take Earth Back trailer where it looks like the Normandy is flying in strike formation with a squadron of fighters. Also, I like those dropship looking things you see with the Makos, I mean technically they don't need something like that since their ground-assault vehicles can drop from freaking orbit. But still... they look cool.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby WarDaft » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:25 pm UTC

I think I actually would prefer it if there was no mention of fighters at all in the ME universe. With the technology they have, fighters will never be able to overwhelm a dreadnought and basic capital ship point defense weapons will carve them to ribbons. They're just not strategically sensible.
Spoiler:
Final projectile energy is proportional to barrel length, basic kinematics, E = fd. Shortening the 800 m guns (which produce 38 kt blasts) to 10 meters and reducing the magnitude of the field by a factor of 10 (I'm presuming that would make the gun 10 times lighter as well, but they aren't specific enough, either way you could use more mass effect fields to make the gun more nimble) still leaves you with a gun with 142.3 km/s shots (un-dodgeable at any range fighters would be effective at) with the energy of a 47.5 t explosion - more than 4 times the yield of the real life MOAB, but focused in one direction.

Hmm, keeping with this convention, let's check against another in-game weapon. Llet's take another 10 fold reduction in field strength and make the barrel 0.5 m long... (I'm guessing the Cain has a half meter barrel) gives us... 10 km/s projectile velocity. Not bad for two layers of handwavey approximation. I'm taking this as medium to weak evidence for this being a reasonable way to calculate gun strength in ME.



What is more bothersome however, is that we see a dreadnought fire on a Reaper in atmosphere. These are firing 4 Mm/s projectiles. 1) They should not have a human discernible travel time. 2) They should produce a (very) bright flash from the energy released as they plough through the air. Actually, even over that short a distance, the projectile would probably vaporize and impact as a compact plasma object. And unless barrier technology absorbs energy travelling away from the ship, or works by slowing the projectiles down (nonsensical - they are being accelerated over the majority of a kilometer, you can't slow them down non-destructively with the same technology over a few meters) there should have been one heck of a bang to go with it.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Belial » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:30 pm UTC

Chewbaccawacca wrote:Also, I like those dropship looking things you see with the Makos, I mean technically they don't need something like that since their ground-assault vehicles can drop from freaking orbit. But still... they look cool.


You mean the hammerheads? Those were the mako replacements in ME2.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Xeio » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:12 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Slightly worrying: the game does not show up in my games list in Origin. Shouldn't it be there as an entry, without a download option, like what Steam does when you pre-order something? I've also not received a confirmation email, even though the money has come out of my bank account. Is that normal for Origin? If so, I'm starting to understand why people dislike it.
Incidentally, since I forgot at lunch, yes, you should have gotten a confirmation e-mail.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:20 pm UTC

I tried sending them a message asking about it, and they came back with a stock response which didn't address the issue even slightly, and after I followed up on it, I got a response which was basically "our order tracking service is broken, please try again next week".

One is not amused.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Chewbaccawacca » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:22 pm UTC

Belial wrote:You mean the hammerheads? Those were the mako replacements in ME2.


Oh, is that what they are? I must confess I have yet to play any of the ME2 DLC. I didn't have internet when I played it last, though I am looking forward to doing just that in the next couple of weeks here.


WarDaft wrote:I think I actually would prefer it if there was no mention of fighters at all in the ME universe. With the technology they have, fighters will never be able to overwhelm a dreadnought and basic capital ship point defense weapons will carve them to ribbons. They're just not strategically sensible.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that the purpose of the fighters in the MEU is not to go against capital ships, rather to provide advance defense against enemy bombers (and corvettes maybe?) before they [read:bombers] can close the distance to attack the capital ships that the fighters are defending. It's been a while since I've read the Codex entries, but I think that the bombers in the MEU carry some sort of short-medium range Cap-ship-killer weapon that for whatever reason is immune to the GUARDIAN system... but... errrr.. not immune to fighters? Or something? I honestly don't know, but I'm pretty sure I saw it mentioned in there somewhere. There's a reason for them, even if it is a silly one. Heh.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby WarDaft » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:08 am UTC

Sure there's a lore reason, but there's no technological reason. No vaguely small ship could stand up to the rounds I calculated. Nukes could be sniped by even smaller turrets, bombers don't make any sense over simple missiles, and missiles don't make sense when you can accelerate projectiles to significant fractions of the speed of light.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Chewbaccawacca » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:00 am UTC

But... but.. I liiiiiiike fighters! Heh, but seriously (relatively speaking) maybe they could be useful for small(er) ship interdiction? Their lower mass register should allow them atmo exit and re-entry more easily than larger vessels. Perhaps they could be implemented in a role that requires a military prescence but not outright destruction of the target.

Say there was a suspected pirate raiding in an area using a modified freighter, a fighter-carrying vessel moves to intercept them as the freighter makes a burn for the (supposed) safety of a planet... blah blah... fighters launched..,.

I'm not going to finish, I am sure that you know where the hypothetical is going. Do you discount that under those (or similar) circumstances that the fighter class craft would have a viable part to play?
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby WarDaft » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:00 am UTC

... Not really, no. Sorry. The fighter carrying craft would have been more cost effective if it just carried whatever armaments the fighters had without all the extra mass of the fighters themselves (or better yet, armaments equal in weight to the fighters) or fighter bays. The only reason fighters are effective in the world today is because battleships can't fly around at Mach 3.

But that doesn't mean we can't still have them in Mass Effect. They're hardly the most insensible thing in the universe, and they're extremely ubiquitous in Sci-Fi.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Yakk » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:14 am UTC

For the fighter to be faster all you need is a less efficient higher thrust to mass drive, and/or having living quarters and support be heavy. In either case a fighter like craft can have better short or medium term speed. And if that is useful... Today the jet engine is a far less efficient wayway better thrust to mass (ESP if you account for friction) engine. The lack of effective defences today means that a very small payload or weapon can take out a large target. And closing range is still useful. Missiles have even less overhead and an even higher thrust to mass ratio engine, which means mounting them on aircraft makes some sense. Now with reasonable extrapolation, human pilots are going the way of the dodo in the short term -- but ME assumes that humans remain useful, so the fighter can easily make sense...
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Chewbaccawacca » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:23 am UTC

I mean, yes, technically I'm inclined to agree with you Daft, especially in lieu of Yakk's statements (ie our unsettling trend towards automation in all things). But dammit Jim! It's sci-fi and I want my x-wings!
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby SlyReaper » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:20 am UTC

Actually, I don't think things are trending towards full automation at all as far as weapons are concerned. As things stand at the moment (and I think this is actually international law), a machine may not decide on its own to kill someone. There must always be a human controller who makes the decision to kill. Changing that, even in the face of aliens and mass relays and magic future-tech would take political balls of iron. People would be all like "oh no, what if it pulls a SkyNet?" Of course, that just means you'll have humans remote controlling the fighters from on board the mothership.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby ArgonV » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:35 pm UTC

So what about security mechs then? They can decide to kill
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby SlyReaper » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:38 pm UTC

Good point.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Xeio » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:11 pm UTC

So I just decided to pre-order a hard copy, I don't see any reason to get a digital collectors edition, that's silly, and I can register the key on Origin anyway. Tricky part was finding somewhere that would deliver by release without charging me crazy amounts (because amazon was sold out).
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Gelsamel » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:05 am UTC

You guys realise there are codex entries on fighters etc, right? And, yeah, fighters aren't in any way realistic for spacewarfare but they are very fun and so lots of sci fi has them.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby VectorZero » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:24 am UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Slightly worrying: the game does not show up in my games list in Origin.
The same happened with my preorder of the DA2 special edition. It appeared only once the release day arrived.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby ArgonV » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:49 am UTC

Xeio wrote:So I just decided to pre-order a hard copy, I don't see any reason to get a digital collectors edition, that's silly, and I can register the key on Origin anyway. Tricky part was finding somewhere that would deliver by release without charging me crazy amounts (because amazon was sold out).


Seriously? I can just buy the regular version for €36 and have it delivered on the release date for free...
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Xeio » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:46 pm UTC

ArgonV wrote:
Xeio wrote:So I just decided to pre-order a hard copy, I don't see any reason to get a digital collectors edition, that's silly, and I can register the key on Origin anyway. Tricky part was finding somewhere that would deliver by release without charging me crazy amounts (because amazon was sold out).
Seriously? I can just buy the regular version for €36 and have it delivered on the release date for free...
I paid <$1 for shipping so it's inconsequential.

I'm not sure why I'd want the regular edition though, I sorta wanted the collectors edition anyway, but the squad member was a decent tipping point for me.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby SlyReaper » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:18 pm UTC

Well apparently, everything is fine with my pre-order, according to their online help people. Got an order number and everything. Apparently the game will appear in my games list as soon as it is released. I'd still be more reassured if they'd sent a confirmation mail, and my "Order History" wasn't empty. I guess I'll find out in a couple of weeks.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Dark567 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:46 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Well apparently, everything is fine with my pre-order, according to their online help people. Got an order number and everything. Apparently the game will appear in my games list as soon as it is released. I'd still be more reassured if they'd sent a confirmation mail, and my "Order History" wasn't empty. I guess I'll find out in a couple of weeks.
I got a confirmation email a couple days after I ordered it.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby SlyReaper » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:50 pm UTC

Oh, then I might get one in the next day or so. I've become accustomed to getting confirmation mails a few seconds after ordering. Even if I ordered on a Sunday or a bank holiday. Delaying it for days seems a bit... shabby.

God damn it, why can't this game have been on Steam? :cry:
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby An Enraged Platypus » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:20 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Oh, then I might get one in the next day or so. I've become accustomed to getting confirmation mails a few seconds after ordering. Even if I ordered on a Sunday or a bank holiday. Delaying it for days seems a bit... shabby.

God damn it, why can't this game have been on Steam? :cry:


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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby VectorZero » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:44 pm UTC

That's too far back. EA used to be cool.

I've been having some major glitching in MP, effectively unplayable. Dropping through the floor, stuck high above the map, can't move or shoot. Possibly lag related. Won't stop me playing SP, but I had fun when I could get a whole game in (and I just found out about vanguard charge-nova too).
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Enokh » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:22 pm UTC

Oh man, just fired up Mass Effect last night so I can dig through everything in both games before playing the third (I never did a "run around and do everything" playthrough, and it's been a while since any playthrough). I've got more than enough time to 100% both games, since suddenly becoming a single father has strapped me for cash pretty hard.

And man oh man, I forgot how absolutely awesome it is to play an Adept in ME1. Unlocking as many abilities as fast as I can (while keeping Charm max'd), and it's just fun as hell. I'll switch to something else once I hit ME2, though, as the Adept is not nearly as fun in that game. Might do Infiltrator.

Also forgot just how holyshitawesome this series is.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Chewbaccawacca » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:49 pm UTC

It is a blast isn't it? I'm in a similar boat, more and more it looks like I won't be able to nab a copy on launch day. :cry:
Though it's with EA now, so odds are favorable I'll still be able to get pre-order content if I want it via DLC. So silver lining I guess?
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Xanthir » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:06 pm UTC

I played some multiplayer yesterday, just to see how it worked, and man, that shit is *fun*. Also: pretty hard! To be fair, I accidentally slotted myself into a gold challenge at first.

I don't have a Gold membership, but I'm thinking of getting one for a few months just to play the multiplayer.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Yakk » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:08 pm UTC

I leveled up to level 2 "solo" in the group game on bronze games as an infiltrator. I think I got past wave 1 like once. :)

(I was having some problems getting it to launch, and felt bad about being a level 1 character who has no clue in a game with higher level folks).

The one bit of advice I'd give is "as a level 1 character, with a player who has never done this before, restrict yourself to bronze. By default, it lets you into ANY difficulty, which is a bad idea."
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Chewbaccawacca » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:17 pm UTC

Heh, yeah Gold really is tough. I have a group of 3 other guys that I usually play with, we're all level 60+ with multiple high level characters (my favorite is my 18 Infiltrator, but I have a 16 Krogan Soldier that's an absolute blast to play) and we've never been able to finish a Gold match (we got to round 8 once, and it was almost retardedly hard). But let me tell you, definitly try to find a group to roll with, having a team not only makes the game doable, but also adds a lot of fun to the mix too! If you ever want/need/crave (ladies?) someone to help you level up a bit, my GT is Chewbaccawakka. I'm usually on at least an hour or two most weeknights PST. I'd be happy to help, or just screw around on the maps. Because yes, it really is that much fun.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby maybeagnostic » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:26 pm UTC

I finally gave in and installed Origin so I can play through the demo. I wouldn't judge a ME game by the intro mission because 1&2 had pretty lackluster ones too but I was rather disappointed by the ME3 intro.

The Alliance admirals are presented as sniveling cowards or scared children looking for reassurance which... could have worked if it was a counterpoint to their earlier competence or hubris or something but we're never shown any of that. The first time they show up they are presented as incompetent and incapable of command and then they are all killed off.

What happened to Ashley? Is Kaidan also completely changed? Maybe I should just replay the intro and see.

I am really not sure where the story is going with this start. The human fleets have already been destroyed and there are hundreds (thousands?) of reapers on Earth killing and indoctrinating everyone. If Shepard somehow manages to mobilize and organize an inter-species fleet capable of taking on the reapers in a few weeks there will likely still be almost no one left on Earth to save. One of the admirals already mentioned in the intro that they have lost contact with all colonies so humanity has effectively been wiped out?

Multiplayer might get too repetitive pretty fast but it's fun so far. I am leveling a quarian engineer who seems rather underpowered compared to infiltrators and vanguards who get most of the kills and lots of headshots. Maybe things are different on gold difficulty. The one silver mission I finished successfully was definitely a lot more challenging and interesting than bronze ones where there seems to be a race to finish off the enemies. I still haven't figured out what the scoring system does since it doesn't seem to affect xp or credits.

Is anyone up for some multiplayer today? I can play 8-11pm EST// 1-4am GMT.

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Yakk wrote:I leveled up to level 2 "solo" in the group game on bronze games as an infiltrator. I think I got past wave 1 like once.

It seems the difficulty doesn't scale with the number of players so solo games would have just as many enemies with just as much health/damage as a 4 person game. It really encourages playing with teammates which is more fun anyway.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Belial » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:36 pm UTC

maybeagnostic wrote:One of the admirals already mentioned in the intro that they have lost contact with all colonies so humanity has effectively been wiped out?


All inter-cluster communication goes through the relays, so losing contact with the colonies could mean all the colonies are hosed, or (given the timeline: all colonies, then moon, then OMGWTFTHEY'REHERE) it could just mean that earth lost contact with everything outside the local cluster when the reapers came through the relay.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Yakk » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:47 pm UTC

maybeagnostic wrote:P.S.
Yakk wrote:I leveled up to level 2 "solo" in the group game on bronze games as an infiltrator. I think I got past wave 1 like once.

It seems the difficulty doesn't scale with the number of players so solo games would have just as many enemies with just as much health/damage as a 4 person game. It really encourages playing with teammates which is more fun anyway.
I noticed. :-) Still, as I didn't want to play with other people while incompetent at the game, it was an interesting exercise. Being able to defeat an entire wave solo and all...
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby maybeagnostic » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:56 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
maybeagnostic wrote:One of the admirals already mentioned in the intro that they have lost contact with all colonies so humanity has effectively been wiped out?


All inter-cluster communication goes through the relays, so losing contact with the colonies could mean all the colonies are hosed, or (given the timeline: all colonies, then moon, then OMGWTFTHEY'REHERE) it could just mean that earth lost contact with everything outside the local cluster when the reapers came through the relay.

I thought they lost contact with the colonies in stages rather than all at ones? I imagined the reapers are jumping through and disabling relays on their way to Earth. So, sure, they might have skipped the colonies in their hurry or they could have left one reaper per colony to wipe them out. Seeing how humanity kind of has to survive I assume you are right and they just disabled communications through the Charon relay. So maybe the reapers are so disdainful of humans that they just went past our fleets as well and wait straight for Earth where they started indoctrinating civilians because... they are beyond our comprehension.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby VectorZero » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:53 pm UTC

Enokh wrote: man oh man, I forgot how absolutely awesome it is to play an Adept in ME1. Unlocking as many abilities as fast as I can (while keeping Charm max'd), and it's just fun as hell. I'll switch to something else once I hit ME2, though, as the Adept is not nearly as fun in that game. Might do Infiltrator.
:) As much as I love the setting and the story and the voice acting and the characters, I'd not be such a squeeing fanboy if it wasn't so much fun to play as well. Highlight might be flinging Krogan Battlemasters off the Presidium spire during the endgame. Biotics: Sealed awesome in a can.

Maybeagnostic: in general, I agree with your assessment of the demo. Pretty poor story wise, cursory mentions only of [virmire survivor] and given about as much info as Vega, no mention of the events of Arrival, etc. I'd hate to be trialling this as an entry point to the series, I'd have no idea what's going on. I can only assume there'll be a much more detailed intro sequence in the full game.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Xanthir » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:44 am UTC

Yakk wrote:(I was having some problems getting it to launch, and felt bad about being a level 1 character who has no clue in a game with higher level folks).

The one bit of advice I'd give is "as a level 1 character, with a player who has never done this before, restrict yourself to bronze. By default, it lets you into ANY difficulty, which is a bad idea."

Assuming you've played ME at all before, don't feel bad about being level 1 and playing with random experienced folks. You can still contribute usefully, and if you get with a good group and make it all the way through a Bronze, you'll get *tons* of xp (I leveled from 1->5 after my first successful one). Even an unsuccessful run will get you way more XP than doing solos, and it'll give you the chance to earn credits with the goal missions (which you'll never see if you can't get past the first wave).
(defun fibs (n &optional (a 1) (b 1)) (take n (unfold '+ a b)))
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Lucrece » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:03 am UTC

Wish the PC version would let me use my xbox controller since I like hooking up my pc to HDMI, and I'm used to the xbox controller due to other games allowing me to use one on my pc.

I'm so atrocious at this game, that even on narrative mode liara and garrus were doing more of the killing while most of my shots ended in surrounding walls while I was troubling with moving around the place and jumping over cover instead of being stuck in it. Admittedly, discovering I could right click to zoom a shot helped my accuracy, but I still suck at aiming.

So, being a sentinel, I went "fuck it" and started running around doing melee in the demo. I could see building my perks for stronger shields and boost to melee damage as a sentinel. I just like the added survivability and flexibility of the class via warp/throw, and the grenade was not half bad if I learn to aim better.

I just don't have that great aiming ability, but I've always loved the ME storyline.

Also, gonna love mods -- from a hacked demo:

Image

You can set default naked/underwear look in the game files, to the collector's edition hoodie look while in combat. Pretty neat.
Belial wrote:That's charming, Nancy, but all I hear when you talk is a bunch of yippy dog sounds.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby mosc » Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:00 pm UTC

I pre-ordered from Amazon. $10 gift card came with it.
Title: It was given by the XKCD moderators to me because they didn't care what I thought (I made some rantings, etc). I care what YOU think, the joke is forums.xkcd doesn't care what I think.
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Postby Okita » Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:23 pm UTC

I pre-ordered the Collector's Edition really early and apparently missed out on a whole bunch of things including the gift card and $.99 release day shipping.

I'm slightly upset about it but moreso by how unhelpful Amazon customer service was about it.
"I may or may not be a raptor. There is no way of knowing until entering a box that I happen to be in and then letting me sunder the delicious human flesh from your body in reptile fury."
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