Star Wars: The Old Republic

[Coin]

I had a bit more interesting choices than that when I played the first 10 levels of a Jedi Sage. I got choices like commenting on the sexual moral of the jedi order, whether to recommend an alien for training as a jedi or killing him on the spot and choosing between telling a widow whether her husband is dead or alive.
As I said, they might not engage everyone, but they engaged me enough to make me remember them 4 months after playing them.

[Izawwlgood]

I didn't find those terribly interesting. Anyone who paid attention during any Star Wars movie knows that Jedi's hate fun and are utterly uncompromising in their ways. It took two quests to realize that if you wanted Light Side points you select stuff that represents humping a rule book, if you wanted to increase affection for Qyzen Fess, you say stuff relating to being a badass hunter. Woo. Some range of selection, some breathtaking depth.

[Coin]

I didn't find those terribly interesting. Anyone who paid attention during any Star Wars movie knows that Jedi's hate fun and are utterly uncompromising in their ways. It took two quests to realize that if you wanted Light Side points you select stuff that represents humping a rule book, if you wanted to increase affection for Qyzen Fess, you say stuff relating to being a badass hunter. Woo. Some range of selection, some breathtaking depth.

Fair enough. Then this is not a game that caters to you. To others, it adds more interesting choices than WoW, EvE, City of Heroes, Age of Conan etc.

[Izawwlgood]

Definitely. I recognize there's no arguing taste. I felt the conversational interactions weren't sufficient to make up for the current lack of content and features. Others thought it was the beesknees.

To be fair, there were things about the game I thought were extremely cool (aside from just lightsabers); the companion system being attached to crafting and gathering the way it was, was in my opinion, brilliant. That feature alone was enough to keep me up late a couple nights, killing mobs AND working my crafting/gathering skills (I love multitasking).

[mosc]

If your goal is to xp/loot grind, I can see how TOR would feel shallow. It tries to be a narrative driven experience. Content is generally extremely easy (heroics can be skipped). Dialog choices can feel limiting at times, meaningless at other times. I have to admit when I'm on a secondary character playing through a quest I've already done, I pretty much skip all the dialog and reduce the conversation tree into a companion faction raising minigame. I wish there were more gameplay related ramifications to your conversations, ones also not tied to light/dark binary responses. I wish the interface would be improved (can I SEE threat somewhere please?). I wish you could post WTB requests on the trading network (at least for crafting materials). All that said, it's where my friends play and that's generally OK with me. I never liked WoW.

[Chen]

What really put me off playing this was no UI modification. Trying to maximize threat as a Juggernaut tank while making sure I'm not standing in fire is a MASSIVE pain in the ass. I have to almost stare at my action bars to watch a myriad of short timers going off. If I could throw up some bars in the middle of the screen with countdowns on them I'd be enjoying this game FAR more.

[mosc]

Yeah, TOR fails pretty hard at it's ability to present basic raid information. Threat is invisible, party HP is all over the damn UI, targetting enemies is problematic, and managing buffs/debuffs is a joke.

But honestly, vanilla WoW was much the same.

[Chen]

Yeah, TOR fails pretty hard at it's ability to present basic raid information. Threat is invisible, party HP is all over the damn UI, targetting enemies is problematic, and managing buffs/debuffs is a joke.

But honestly, vanilla WoW was much the same.

True, but even Vanilla WoW allowed addons to rectify this.

[Izawwlgood]

But honestly, vanilla WoW was much the same.

Right, but vanilla WoW was the game that made these problems visible, and then solved them.

At this point in the MMO game design thing, there's no excuse for repeating design flaws that other games have already rectified. It'd be like making a difficult side scroller and not having checkpoints, and when people complained, saying "Oh, well it's still early on, maybe we'll add them later".

[Ixtellor]

What really put me off playing this was no UI modification. Trying to maximize threat as a Juggernaut tank while making sure I'm not standing in fire is a MASSIVE pain in the ass. I have to almost stare at my action bars to watch a myriad of short timers going off. If I could throw up some bars in the middle of the screen with countdowns on them I'd be enjoying this game FAR more.

1) In patch 1.2 --- UI customization is being added. (In March sometime)
2) I am a Juggernaut tank and I have had no trouble tanking content. What I do:
A) Watch the screen to see what the mobs are doing.
B) Use my Area Taunt
C) Intercede when I see someone's health take a big drop, but really I just watch the MOBS...
If a Jedi Commander runs away from me and attacks someone else... I taunt them or intercede if its on CD.

I feel like Curse and Grid ruined the concept of just watching the fight. People stare at numbers, names, and symbols now or just wait for "MOVE BACK" to flash up on their screen.

In reality, TOR raid content is easy, any decent player can do their job and still finish the raids. (Bugs are another Issue)

Threat is invisible, party HP is all over the damn UI, targetting enemies is problematic, and managing buffs/debuffs is a joke.

Why do people require a threat number on the screen... If your not tanking the boss + adds... GO get aggro on them using the skills your class has to do so. I think its just a way to baby DPS instead of requiring them to pay attention. "Maybe I shouldn't unload all my AoE's in the first .5 seconds of the 5 Boss fight"

Target of my target, is fine, but again it just ends up requiring less skill of the players.

You can put the Party HP dead center in the middle of the screen and make the healthbars BIG as fuck. Its in preferences.

You are correct on buffs/debuffs. That should be fixed, and once done will allow for more game mechanic fights. But as it is now... raid content is easy. Brand new guilds are doing 8-man Hardmodes with ungeared characters.


Lastly,
For the first time ever I am PvPing with a Ranged class. In all other MMO's I was a melee character... My thoughts.... HOLY FUCK THIS IS FUN. Ranged is soo much more fun than melee in PvP. I love force leaping and crushing healers with my Juggernaut... But Bounty Hunter is SOO MUCH FUN.. KITE KITE KITE KITE KITE, Death from Above!

I am level 12 and I am finishing in the top 5 in damage going up against level 40's and 30's.

[mosc]

Why do people require a threat number on the screen... If your not tanking the boss + adds... GO get aggro on them using the skills your class has to do so. I think its just a way to baby DPS instead of requiring them to pay attention. "Maybe I shouldn't unload all my AoE's in the first .5 seconds of the 5 Boss fight"

It's not DPS, it's healers. They need to know when to stop healing. Over-heal helps lower the risk from spikes but can generate more threat than the tank has on it's non-primary target. Showing threat gives the healers information on how much they can heal. Good healers heal to the threat, not to the damage.

[mike-l]

Does overhealing cause threat? I don't think I've ever played a game where it did.

Aside from healing right as adds spawn, healers shouldn't have to worry about threat. The tank should be using their AoE on occassion to keep up with the healer threat generation on off adds.

[Ixtellor]

Good healers heal to the threat, not to the damage.

I understand everything you said, and it sounds logical. But I think thats a WoW mechanic that your trying to impose on all raids.

I find that in SW healers only draw agg in the beginning with multiple mobs.
So I the tank jump in and aoe taunt... then I get HAMMERED if its a big fight, so the healer is spamming away on you. Then some of the mobs your not beating on will switch to the healer and I see the healer take a spike of damage. (I also understand yout point of overhealing)

Anyway, I see what your saying but TOR raiding is so easy, threat meters are not required. UI is coming in March, if they Raids also get harder it might matter. But as it is today, lack of threat meters should in no way impare your ability to heal a raid.

Some people want (and Bioware seems like this) TOR to be WoW with lightsabers. And it basically is today. I personally would like that to be toned down. WoW also made mistakes.
CrossServer LFG = Huge mistake.
Leveling up with certain specs was extremely difficult compared to others and leads to incompatant players when they ding max level.

[Chen]

A lot of people say cross-server LFG is a mistake, but I find it hard to see the logic in it. Facilitating making groups is a good thing. And its an option. You don't have to use it, you can still group with guildmates and/or friends. The only argument I tend to see is that is destroys communities, but that would imply that grouping with random people on your servers BUILT community to begin with. I wonder how many groups of people got together because of random grouping compared to those getting together in other manners. Most of the people I knew when I played WoW didn't get to know me via random groups, but rather via guildmates and/or friends of friends. Removing the tediousness of looking for a group when sitting in the fleet is beneficial. Its especially beneficial to low population servers and/or factions. Or for people who game during non-peak times.

[emceng]

A lot of people say cross-server LFG is a mistake, but I find it hard to see the logic in it. Facilitating making groups is a good thing. And its an option. You don't have to use it, you can still group with guildmates and/or friends. The only argument I tend to see is that is destroys communities, but that would imply that grouping with random people on your servers BUILT community to begin with. I wonder how many groups of people got together because of random grouping compared to those getting together in other manners. Most of the people I knew when I played WoW didn't get to know me via random groups, but rather via guildmates and/or friends of friends. Removing the tediousness of looking for a group when sitting in the fleet is beneficial. Its especially beneficial to low population servers and/or factions. Or for people who game during non-peak times.

Before BC, random pick up groups did earn me friends in WoW. There was a limited amount of guilds and 60s, and limited places for them to go. So meeting and knowing the people in your group could be a good thing.

It also adds to the reputation factor. When I went back to WoW for a month. Did one raid with people from other servers. It was quick - 30 min in Hellfire, but the whole time two guys were arguing about not playing their classes right(because they had mains of that class). So eash bitched each other out constantly. Not a fun way to play the game.

[Izawwlgood]

So eash bitched each other out constantly. Not a fun way to play the game.

One thing WoW taught me was 'Ignore the idiots'. It's a valuable lesson for every MMO experience. If two people are being particularly obnoxious, kick one, or both.

In PUGs, the only thing that I found really unacceptable was when a tank or healer were trolling, because the waits for them could be a while. Shrug.

[Ixtellor]

A lot of people say cross-server LFG is a mistake, but I find it hard to see the logic in it. Facilitating making groups is a good thing.

Yes it allows for casual players to see a lot of content.
But it does destroy the community.
On my starwars server I see the same people on all the time, we are all in separate guilds, but we do a lot of grouping up. If you were a 'dick' on my server you wouldn't be able to pug for very long. My friends list is WAY longer than it ever was on WoW.

Also, cross server = people ruining the raid. They get mad and then AFK, or try to cause a wipe. Didn't happen often but it did happen. Or they won't heal person X.
Due to the timers, your basically stuck with those people.
In STWOR as it is now, those same douch bags could "need" all the gear. (easy fix)

As it is now on my TOR server, any time I start a group, I will get at least one person I grouped with before. And PvP is ALL the same people so you get to know a lot of your server mates.

Again, I see both sides. As a DPS Ret Pally before LFG, it was very hard for me to get groups.

[Hawknc]

Does anyone have a couple of 7-day trial passes they could throw my way? My wife and I are both interested but, given the mixed reactions to the game, want to see if it's good before shelling out 2x(80+15) AUD only to find out we wouldn't enjoy it.

[emceng]

Ok, so installed it last night. I'm likely going to play on Harbinger - anyone else on that server?

Anyone have suggestions for crafting? I really enjoy doing crafting in games like this, but I have issues with the following(from my exp. with WoW and single player RPGS).
- Useless items/poorly leveled items
-----Saw this one when I played the TOR demo. Did the saber crafting skill, but by the time I was able to craft the sabers, 75% of the time I already had better ones(or could purchase way better ones if I wasn't broke)
- Cash sinks - yeah, crafting costs money. That doesn't mean I want to be wearing green gear all the time because I'm constantly broke. I don't need to make a ton of cash from the crafting skill, but I don't want to go broke with it either
- Never used skills - Say, engineering in WoW. Sure it made some neat trinkets, but 99.9% of the time I didn't use the items. Enchanting was very useful, as well as alchemy. Something like that

So, anyone have a suggestion? Also, any noob tips for someone with experience in MMOs and such already. I played the TOR demo, and have a few years in WoW.

[Izawwlgood]

Saw this one when I played the TOR demo. Did the saber crafting skill, but by the time I was able to craft the sabers, 75% of the time I already had better ones(or could purchase way better ones if I wasn't broke)

[quote="emceng"]Cash sinks - yeah, crafting costs money.[quote]
This was true in WoW as well. Crafting is a cost investment, not something one should expect to do at first for profit.

Honestly, just glance over this thread for a pretty honest assessment of the game.

[Coin]

Ok, so installed it last night. I'm likely going to play on Harbinger - anyone else on that server?

Anyone have suggestions for crafting? I really enjoy doing crafting in games like this, but I have issues with the following(from my exp. with WoW and single player RPGS).
- Useless items/poorly leveled items
-----Saw this one when I played the TOR demo. Did the saber crafting skill, but by the time I was able to craft the sabers, 75% of the time I already had better ones(or could purchase way better ones if I wasn't broke)
- Cash sinks - yeah, crafting costs money. That doesn't mean I want to be wearing green gear all the time because I'm constantly broke. I don't need to make a ton of cash from the crafting skill, but I don't want to go broke with it either
- Never used skills - Say, engineering in WoW. Sure it made some neat trinkets, but 99.9% of the time I didn't use the items. Enchanting was very useful, as well as alchemy. Something like that

So, anyone have a suggestion? Also, any noob tips for someone with experience in MMOs and such already. I played the TOR demo, and have a few years in WoW.

Sounds like you want consumables crafting then, not gear crafting. You should try the one that is the equivalent of alchemy.
I think it's called biochemistry.

[Zapheod]

Ok, so installed it last night. I'm likely going to play on Harbinger - anyone else on that server?

Anyone have suggestions for crafting? I really enjoy doing crafting in games like this, but I have issues with the following(from my exp. with WoW and single player RPGS).
- Useless items/poorly leveled items
-----Saw this one when I played the TOR demo. Did the saber crafting skill, but by the time I was able to craft the sabers, 75% of the time I already had better ones(or could purchase way better ones if I wasn't broke)
- Cash sinks - yeah, crafting costs money. That doesn't mean I want to be wearing green gear all the time because I'm constantly broke. I don't need to make a ton of cash from the crafting skill, but I don't want to go broke with it either
- Never used skills - Say, engineering in WoW. Sure it made some neat trinkets, but 99.9% of the time I didn't use the items. Enchanting was very useful, as well as alchemy. Something like that

So, anyone have a suggestion? Also, any noob tips for someone with experience in MMOs and such already. I played the TOR demo, and have a few years in WoW.

I would recommend Cybertech. It lets you create tons of Armor mods. Makes it much easier to stay ahead of the curve when you can upgrade all your Orange armor easily and cheaply. Lets you create speeders as well.

[Ixtellor]

Crafting is undergoing MAJOR changes in the next patch. (April)
Its going to be the BEST gear in the game if you work at it and unlock it.
All the level 50's will be converting to crafted gear, so there is going to be SICK money to be made but not all the details are out.

I would recommend getting a profession for you class for now.

Also, its worth leveling up to 50 because its your companions that do all the work and at level 50 you have 6 companions and any 5 of them can be working/crafting at once.

Also affection is important. The more your companion likes you, the harder they work on the crafting task. There are lots of ways to raise affection.

[Izawwlgood]

I am always a fan of games putting the generation of best level gear in the hands of the players. Even if you make it ridiculously difficult to craft, I think it is always better to let players craft the best, or nearly the best stuff. Good move on their part!

[Ixtellor]

My guild fell apart, so I started over on a brand new PvP server. (Legacy level 18 good bye).

Got in an amazing guild with a good reputation.

To who ever earlier commented about "going from place to place to talk to NPC's" I wonder if you were a trooper. I had to fly between 3 different planets 4 times, to finish a single quest on my Trooper and it was highly annoying. That never happend as my Sith or BH.

Still waiting for the big patch, and leveling up my new char. (Level 36 Trooper)

Can't wait to start raiding and competitive PvP.

[Enokh]

I did the trial, and while it was cool at first (MMO with dialogue options, yay!) it fell into the same repetitive nonsense as every other MMORPG. Didn't even finish the 7-day trial. I was a little disappointed, as this was the last MMORPG I'm going to give a shot. Looks cool, though, I like the differences in characters, but meh.

[emceng]

I have a hard time articulating things properly, but here goes: I note a big difference between this and WoW. Probably not what you're thinking. What I notice is I don't care or worry about how to play my class that much. I've tried two characters so far, both to mid-high teens, both Jedi dps.

I don't even really bother reading my abilities. I've got maybe 4 I use repeatedly, and maybe a few others I use rarely. I don't use them at a specific time, or worry about timing. I just pretty much mash them when I feel like it. Or more explicitly - there is a disconnect between my actions and the results. There is very little challenge, so I don't have to worry about what I'm doing. So I can ignore learning how to play, because I don't have to know how to play. Just like a single player game, if I play like crap, it doesn't make a difference. There is little reason to group up. The handle of group quests involve getting 2-4 people together, spending 15 minutes in an instance, then the group dissipates.

[DaBigCheez]

There is very little challenge, so I don't have to worry about what I'm doing...Just like a single player game, if I play like crap, it doesn't make a difference.

I've tried two characters so far, both to mid-high teens

Think I found something relevant here When up to 10 is on Tutorial Island, yeah, I'm not surprised that the teens aren't that challenging.

[mosc]

Tor difficulty is mostly related to heroics and flashpoints and engame content with elite and champion enemies. There really isn't much strategy beyond:
1) Get real people, one of them being a real healer, and have them all attack the same target
2) Use remove-from-combat "CC" abilities and avoid doing damage to those enemies until everything else is dead. This is sometimes not even important because a lot of things are immune.
3) big baddies have big bad abilities that basically say "interrupt this or die". Use an interrupt!

That's really it. The level 1-50 content never has a substantial number of elites and I can't even remember a champion being a required kill. The content also doesn't scale very much with multiple people so if you actually have a team-mate, everything non-heroic is a total joke.

[Panonadin]

Thats all basically terrible to hear.

I was going to resub this weekend the collectors edition I bought along with 2 months of game time that I let expire.

I was talking to a friend of mine in an "end game" guild about it. You know what he said, "No point in resubbing now, wait for 1.2".

Well I don't know if I will want to even re sub then, for a game that just came out, waiting for a patch to be worth playing is pathetic.

[mosc]

I don't know. You think co-ordination would be fun but most people are idiots and don't want to follow instructions they just want to swing their lightsaber or shoot things. "Raiding" quickly becomes a lesson in the failures of communal task co-ordination. People don't want to be a voice in the choir. They want to be the star who gets heaps of respect and praise for hitting the left mouse button once a minute due to their sheer awesomeness.

I can't stand big groups and MMO's are pretty f-ing boring playing by yourself. TOR is a nice in between. At least until something inherently more to that line of reasoning comes out: Diablo 3.

[Panonadin]

I plan on giving D3 a shot. Haven't played 1 or 2 though so we'll see how that goes.

I guess Tera is the next big thing. Beats me.

[Ixtellor]

TOR is easy to level up on, but at higher levels when your fighting elites + adds you can't just push buttons. If you like challenges, try soloing Heroic +2's. You will get about one of those missions in every area.

The real challenges come at the end game, Flash points, Operations, and Heroic 4's.

You can't just ding 50 and start doing all that content, you will fail. There is one easy one, and I have seen bad groups wipe on the boss. So basically until you are a little geared up, your not going to be able to finish most of the HM's. (hard modes)

For experienced raiders with a decent set, the game is not a huge challenge, but there are still nightmare modes to finish, and many guilds have not done those yet.

My last guild could only complete 2 HM's because they were so undergeared and didn't play enough to get geared.

Also, story line boss fights... lots of new players can't get passed them. My story line end boss has an instant kill spell and if your just mashing buttons, you will never beat him. The Sith Warrior has 2 story line fights that a HUGE number of unskilled players could not get passed. The forums had hundreds of "Baras is unkillable! this is such BS"

In summary, if you want the game to be easy, yes you can level up to 50 and won't face any hard content and might not finish your story line.
If you want the game to be a challenge there is LOTS to do. (Unless your a WoW endgame raider, and it will be easier for you)

If anyone is telling you wait for 1.2... they are probably a whiner so don't listen to them. You wouldn't even notice the stuff they are complaining about untill you geared and level 50.

[Psycojosh]

I had a bit more interesting choices than that when I played the first 10 levels of a Jedi Sage. I got choices like commenting on the sexual moral of the jedi order, whether to recommend an alien for training as a jedi or killing him on the spot and choosing between telling a widow whether her husband is dead or alive.
As I said, they might not engage everyone, but they engaged me enough to make me remember them 4 months after playing them.

Yeah, I'm playing as the same class, and I'm really surprised by how in-depth the story gets. I think I'm actually going to stick with this over wow because of the story.

[emceng]

OK, does TOR have named enemies with better loot? Basically I ran into a guy this weekend. Had a white * by his name. Saw those previously on heroic quest mobs. Took him down for the hell of it. Had no quest to kill him, and as far as I could tell there wasn't one, as I did all but the heriocs in that area.

For specifics, the guy was Doctor Something, and this was on Nar Shadaa, in the quest area to destroy lab equipment.

[Shigamori]

Yeah, if they have a white and gold star that makes them "champions" they drop far better loot, but are not for any quest. There are also world bosses that disable your companions which can be taken on by a large group of players that also drop a lot (like 3 pieces) of better loot.

[Ixtellor]

OK, does TOR have named enemies with better loot? Basically I ran into a guy this weekend. .

Yes. Out in the world those are Boss or Champion mobs and they should drop Blues.
In Flashpoints they drop the end game gear or at least Purples.

Also, you might find a world Boss. I saw a cool one on Tarvis (sp?) in the swamp.

Level 50's were farming them, so now I think you can only kill it 3 times in a row and get a drop.
Some of them are crazy tough and others are doable with a companion.

[emceng]

Hmm, forgot to mention this guy only dropped a green. Not bad, but for as tough as that fight was, probably not really worth my time.

[Ixtellor]

The new patch with all the major changes comes out this Thursday.

I am looking forward to the crafting aspect, the new content, and the PvP changes.

[Zapheod]

I am looking forward to being able to move mods from PvP gear to non-PvP gear. Will finally be able to get a gear set that looks decent.

I think I am going to buy the Juggernaut PvE set and put my PvP mods in. Looks better and will definitely confuse a ton of people.