The Resistance 4 (GAME OVER, Resistance win 3-1)

[rigwarl]

I disagree.

If M2 passes with you/angua/tim/xxx, then the same team is used for M3, and it's a straight up win. KaCEoY on Tim, if he passes, and the mission fails, it is likely due to xxx.

Passing leader to t1mm doesn't affect this though. If this happens, it will happen anyway.

[t1mm01994]

Short chime in to say that I think that rig, if you think I'm member of the resistance, go on a mission with you, Angua, TMG and me. It will pass, we will do it again, winning. You can post a team going infina/Tim/x/y, knowing that it'll get rejected, in that case I'll propose the mission with you, angua, tmg and me, SL, and do it again... But really, I don't see why you wouldn't, as it saves me from using SL. Longer post incoming, but with the recent activity I felt like sharing.

[rigwarl]

Short chime in to say that I think that rig, if you think I'm member of the resistance, go on a mission with you, Angua, TMG and me. It will pass, we will do it again, winning. You can post a team going infina/Tim/x/y, knowing that it'll get rejected, in that case I'll propose the mission with you, angua, tmg and me, SL, and do it again... But really, I don't see why you wouldn't, as it saves me from using SL. Longer post incoming, but with the recent activity I felt like sharing.

Again, similar response to Lataro, there is no need to "save" SL in this case because we win the game if it passes. The only situation it affects is if it doesn't pass. I don't see how people are like 100% confident that TMG is resistance when like, yea, it's pretty much a 50% chance to me. Note that resistance really cannot afford to reject your proposal no matter what since there is an NC out there, even if Angua is holding it. However if there is any chance of that at all for some reason then yea, I agree I'd rather just propose myself. But I think 0% chance.

[t1mm01994]

To riggy, I have made clear time and time again who I think are resistance, and as such, I will divide plot powers among them. I don't /really/ see what the point is of discussing already... Ask more precisely and you shall receive answers.

Yeah. This is why it was the smart move for you guys to pass the last mission, and why rigwarl/angua/t1mm aren't more likely res because of it.

Fair enough.

IMO, NC cannot be wasted. If there is an NC in the game, town is at a disadvantage, and it behooves us to get rid of it ASAP. See last game where we implored those with NC's to use them immediately even though we didn't have a problem with the proposed team. (And they "forgot" to use them... grrrr)

Which means that you should be pretty angry at infina right now, or think he's a spy. But if he's a spy, I'm very unlikely to be a spy. Hmm... Either way, you kind of have to deal with me giving out the next round of plot powers, like it or not, and as such, you kind of have to trust my townieness as well. You can attack my read, no problem with that, but yeah.

To sum up t1mm's theory: Adam gave plot powers to infina, BF, and t1mm. Therefore infina and BF must be spies. Since t1mm pretended to clear infina, Adam is clearly scum for putting infina on a mission team. That's seriously all he is going on. And now he's just making stuff up to fit his theory (like BF's suspected spy-list means that there were 3 spies on the first mission, therefore BF is spy). It's ridiculous.

Because twisting words is not flailing, and is the most townie thing you can do since the year 5000 B.C. That last post? It was me pointing out that the spyteam BF proposed was highly unlikely (as opposed to the team I'm proposing). Before that? I had a read on you day 1, and assuming that read, all fit in quite nicely. If I may say so, Mr. Kettle, you are making stuff up to attack my theory.

Rigwarl's proposal makes no sense to me. The only thing that makes sense to me is that he wants t1mm off the mission so that when it fails, t1mm is absolved of suspicion and can fail the 3rd team. I don't see any other reason why rigwarl would want t1mm off the mission (because he has SL? I don't get it).

I agree, I should be on there.

@ Rigwarl
If you propose it, and it gets accepted, and fails, I've got 2 shots (1 after you, 1 after SL again) to get the mission right, if you leave it to me, I got 1 shot (SL) and then it's down to infina, and after that Lataro. I trust you more than Lataro (be it not much) so I'm happier with the 2 of us winning the game.

[rigwarl]

I would rather not use TMG because he is in a good position to check with OC (as he is next to Angua). I'm personally fairly sure Adam H must be resistance, because of 2 reasons:

1) Not a single person has ever backed him up, like ever. This happened to me earlier in the game. As you guys are all more experienced mafia players, does this make someone more likely resistance? I feel one of his spy buddies would stick up for him like, at least once if he was spy, especially considering how active he is.
2) He has been viciously disagreeing with me all day, which would only logically lead me to not put him on the team. The only reason he would do this is if he truly believed his text contributions outweighed the benefits of putting himself on a team, which only makes sense for a resistance member I think. I highly doubt spy-Adam would foresee this train of thought coming from me.

It's a tough choice but I think I'm most likely going to do me/t1mm/Angua/Adam H once I hear back from webby about SL questions. I'd more comfortable in this read rather than going TMG who is basically a coinflip in my book.

[t1mm01994]

Feel free to go with Adam, just as long as you accept my next team, and the one I'll propose after that (Spies be damned if they use Mutiny, but in that case we just have to reject some missions [Mutiny restarts number of rejects, so we can reject till the row of spies end]). I will reject your team, and I encourage anyone in this game to do the same.

[Angua]

I still don't like the idea of Adam H on the team.

Something we should remember, even if there are no spies on the team, they still have a stowaway in the bag. I assume this means we need to make sure there are no spies on the team twice in a row.

[rigwarl]

Stowaway can't be used anymore.

Screw it. Votes speak louder than actions, this discussion isn't going anywhere. Just a reminder, KACEOY should be used but not predictably as spies can potentially have Secret Sabotage or Planting The Evidence.

The current team leader is: rigwarl (t1mm01994 on deck).
The current mission is: [2]

Current Team Member 1: rigwarl
Current Team Member 2: Angua
Current Team Member 3: T1mm
Current Team Member 4: TheMaskedGecko

[Lataro]

Vote as per OP:

Accept

[Adam H]

IMO, NC cannot be wasted. If there is an NC in the game, town is at a disadvantage, and it behooves us to get rid of it ASAP. See last game where we implored those with NC's to use them immediately even though we didn't have a problem with the proposed team. (And they "forgot" to use them... grrrr)

Which means that you should be pretty angry at infina right now, or think he's a spy. But if he's a spy, I'm very unlikely to be a spy. Hmm... Either way, you kind of have to deal with me giving out the next round of plot powers, like it or not, and as such, you kind of have to trust my townieness as well. You can attack my read, no problem with that, but yeah.

One of us is misunderstanding what the other is saying. Infina "wasted" the NC, which was the RIGHT thing for a res to do because NC is dangerous only as long as it is in play.

I'm going to accept this team, just to get the game over with. Well played, spies.

[Angua]

For later - why is stowaway no longer in play?

[t1mm01994]

Stowaway
Use during mission 4 only

[Angua]

How do I miss these things

Thanks

[t1mm01994]

One of us is misunderstanding what the other is saying. Infina "wasted" the NC, which was the RIGHT thing for a res to do because NC is dangerous only as long as it is in play.

Did you just give up on this game, or what? Until now, it has been hard to see whether you were a spy or not, but now you are defending BF from a charge I didn't make at the time, and you're saying infina wasting NC is the right thing to do for res? Res /could/ just opt to NOT use it, because, you know, that is allowed.. Nothing dangerous about it in res hands. If he wanted to get rid of it for the sake of getting rid of it, he need not have use it.

[Adam H]

One of us is misunderstanding what the other is saying. Infina "wasted" the NC, which was the RIGHT thing for a res to do because NC is dangerous only as long as it is in play.

Did you just give up on this game, or what? Until now, it has been hard to see whether you were a spy or not, but now you are defending BF from a charge I didn't make at the time, and you're saying infina wasting NC is the right thing to do for res? Res /could/ just opt to NOT use it, because, you know, that is allowed.. Nothing dangerous about it in res hands. If he wanted to get rid of it for the sake of getting rid of it, he need not have use it.

No, NC is still dangerous in a towns hand (unless we KNOW that ze is town). But we don't know that infina is res. If he kept it, then we'd be forced to pass every 2nd proposed team, which is horrible. This is why you should use NC at the soonest possible time even if you are res.

Did I defend BF? Well, I think you are attacking him only because of me, which is stupid. And anyways, obviously I agree with you that his "scum-team" is unlikely - I'm on it. But your reasons are wrong. BF's scum team would have played this perfectly, because it's pretty assured that one out of t1mm/lataro/silk/adam is going on the next 2 missions. So saying that we're not all spies because the other three bussed me is stupid. I can't really understand your argument, but that seems to be the gist of it.

Now that whole paragraph I just wrote was ONLY to point out that t1mm is being irrational. Don't quote snipe about how I think BF's scum team is correct or something...

[Silknor]

Accept.

[webby]

You can have 24 hours from Silknor's post, because I'm unlikely to wake up before then.

[BoomFrog]

Everyone has to reject this mission. If this mission is accepted we're going to lose.

The mission will fail and we everyone will blame everyone else, and at best we will still only know two of the spies. KACEOY will not help since there is a 50/50 chance anyway of it being manipulated by PtE or SS.

[t1mm01994]

How /exactly/ does that change when we propose a different team? I for one wouldn't mind proposing a BoomFrog/Adam/GoP/infina team, in the vain of "let's play a game", but y'know, that wouldn't really change much. If this mission fails, I admit defeat and I leave the rest of the game to you guys.

[BoomFrog]

How /exactly/ does that change when we propose a different team? I for one wouldn't mind proposing a BoomFrog/Adam/GoP/infina team, in the vain of "let's play a game", but y'know, that wouldn't really change much. If this mission fails, I admit defeat and I leave the rest of the game to you guys.

Resistance would never be so 100% sure of who the spies are. And your proposal above is exactly why you and Adam have been busing eachother, I'm not going to fall for that either.

[rigwarl]

Chances are actually only 25%, let's say Angua picks the resistance guy, 50% chance they have the power, 50% chance they guessed right person (same goes for spy). Of course if there are 2 spies on this team maybe we are screwed. However we do have 3 very good plot powers still left, hopefully we will get at least 2. Anyway, let's see what happens.

[BoomFrog]

There's two plot powers so whether it is spy or resistance that is picked there is a pertinent power and a 50% chance that the spies have that power.

[Adam H]

Just accept this. If it fails we'll know t1mm is an idiot, and if it passes then we win.

[t1mm01994]

Just accept this. If it fails we'll know t1mm is an idiot, and if it passes then we win.

I couldn't have said it any better if I tried.

[rigwarl]

There's two plot powers so whether it is spy or resistance that is picked there is a pertinent power and a 50% chance that the spies have that power.

They have to also pick the right person (50%). If KACEOY targets spy, PtE is useless, if KACEOY targets resistance, SS is useless. Hence 50% x 50% = 25%.

[webby]

The current team leader is: rigwarl
The proposed mission is: 2.

Proposed Team Member 1: rigwarl
Proposed Team Member 2: Angua
Proposed Team Member 3: T1mm01994
Proposed Team Member 4: TheMaskedGecko

Votes:
1. Angua - ACCEPT
2. Rigwarl - ACCEPT
3. t1mm01994 - ACCEPT
4. _infina_ - ACCEPT
5. Lataro - ACCEPT
6. Boomfrog - REJECT
7. Silknor - ACCEPT
8. Gopher of Pern - ACCEPT
9. Adam H - REJECT
10. TheMaskedGecko - ACCEPT

Consecutive rejected teams: 0

The proposed team has been ACCEPTED. The second mission begins now and will end in 24 hours. Spies, if any, must PM whether the mission succeeds or fails, and default to fail.

You are not permitted to talk in-thread during the mission phase.

[webby]

Mission Disposition:
SUCCESS
SUCCESS
SUCCESS
SUCCESS


First Mission: SUCCESS!

Missions completed by the Resistance: 2
Missions sabotaged by the Spies: 1



As The Returners mounted their final defense, the battle looked grim. They were barely holding back the advancing armies of The Empire. When things were at their darkest though, the light of hope shone forth. A series of explosions were seen back in the lines of The Empire's Army. A pale blue glow could be seen growing from the heart of their troops. One of the temporary leaders recognized what they were witnessing... this was the legendary Ultima that their true leaders had sought!

The Empire's Armies were torn to shreds by this new force in short order, the blinding blue light destroyed all it came in contact with. Soldier's and Magi-Tek suits alike were annihilated. The Returner's had been saved from the brink of an abyss, and had been granted a second life in their cause. Now that their leadership had returned, and the pressing threat was taken care of, they were able to sort out who among them were agents of The Empire, and they were dealt with swiftly. The fight had just begun though, what they had destroyed that day was but the tip of the iceberg, for The Empire's true army was far larger than this one strike force.

In the coming months, The Returner's slowly gained ground against The Empire. Liberating city after city, but paying dearly for their victories along the way. Still they pressed on, until a short year after being saved from the abyss, they stood outside the heart of The Empire, pushed back to the stronghold city of Vector. Vector was well fortified and protected by the most advanced Magi-Tek weapons imaginable. All that paled against the true power of The Empire; human's infused directly with the life essence of Espers. Among them, one man stood atop the rest, he was more feared than any other, not just for his ability, but for his inhuman cruelty. Stripped of all semblance of morality, Kefka stood as the true barrier against an assault on Vector.

After a short siege however, and several small battles, this feared foe had not made himself known. The Returner's had expected him to make his presence known by now, yet, as the days drew on, he never appeared on the battlefield. After a month of siege, Vector fell finally. When The Returner's breached the palace which had been sealed from the inside, the charred remains of the Emperor sat on the throne, long dead. The Returner's could only puzzle at this turn of events, however, it did explain why captured Empire troops had confessed to no contact with the palace directly since the siege had started.

Off far in the mountains to the east, Kefka walked though the fiery tunnels, leading to the sealed gate to the land of the Espers. As he came upon it, with the smallest fraction of the power he possessed, he tore the barrier down and proceeded in. What could follow such events, we do not know, for that history has not yet been written.

The spies assume you will choose the same team for the fourth mission and have therefore conceded the game.

The Resistance have won 3 missions to 1!

Angua, Rigwarl, Tim, Lataro, Silknor and TheMaskedGecko win!

Thanks to all for playing and to Lataro for the flavour.

[Lataro]

Super awesome win calling the spy team?

Edit: read spoilers. Timmy, I was praying that you were town all along. I was so convinced that you had to be, that, or you had to be better scum than I could ever be. Glad I'm safe on that account.

I found it funny that the spies were so confident in spoilers, up until it blew up in their face at the end. I think they got way too obvious at the end, there was definitely some unjustified anger/rage/venom in their posts that came off as super scummy.

[BoomFrog]

Once t1mm picked out infinia and AdamH as spies it was either denounce t1mm as a heretic or concede the game immediately. Subtle wasn't an option anymore. t1mm's scumdar was impeccable. I think the spies were too aggressive about M1, but with a sea of resistance coming up the logical "random" M4 team was AdamH and four resistance and that would have been a very bad for us.

GoP gave two important powers to resistance and didn't get any townie credit for it. AdamH gave me ItS which is about 90% doesn't matter wither scum or spies get it and he and I get labeled as spies.

[webby]

Once t1mm picked out infinia and AdamH as spies it was either denounce t1mm as a heretic or concede the game immediately. Subtle wasn't an option anymore. t1mm's scumdar was impeccable. I think the spies were too aggressive about M1, but with a sea of resistance coming up the logical "random" M4 team was AdamH and four resistance and that would have been a very bad for us.

GoP gave two important powers to resistance and didn't get any townie credit for it. AdamH gave me ItS which is about 90% doesn't matter wither scum or spies get it and he and I get labeled as spies.

Yeah, infina + Adam H were too aggressive and got picked as spies. You and GoP were on the failed mission 1 (and GoP proposed the failed mission 1), so that reduced the chances of any spies getting on missions.

[Angua]

Woooooo!!!! I knew Adam H was scum. I'm also glad I was right about feeling sorry for Lataro always being pegged as scum.

[t1mm01994]

I... Was right? /yay
But seriously, sorry for being so arrogant here >.< it was the only way I could keep my "plan" to work.. anything less and I would have been blown away.. I really should be less cocky. I was sure about infina, but had I been wrong on Adam, I might very well have cost us the game...

[webby]

I... Was right? /yay
But seriously, sorry for being so arrogant here >.< it was the only way I could keep my "plan" to work.. anything less and I would have been blown away.. I really should be less cocky. I was sure about infina, but had I been wrong on Adam, I might very well have cost us the game...

Yeah it was very good, I remember last game Lorenz basically had the spy team picked, but wasn't confident enough/didn't push his view hard enough. This game definitely favours a resistance which has activity and confidence.

Having said that, I'm not unhappy with the balance, I just think the spies were outplayed. After mission 1, I thought the spies were in a great position, it turned pretty suddenly against them.

[_infina_]

On the mission that Adam H had proposed, I was actually going to pass it. If you hadn't pulled that stunt, it would have been pretty much a guaranteed a spy win because all three of us would have likely been chosen for the next two missions.

[Angua]

What stunt did Tim pull? That happened when I was away so I sort of missed it.

[_infina_]

What stunt did Tim pull? That happened when I was away so I sort of missed it.

The claimed resistance result on me that was falsified. Then the frantic attempt to get the mission rejected by claiming what he actually did.

[t1mm01994]

This stunt is what we're talking about. Thing is, I'll pull this stuff whether I'm town, scum, independant, duck, or otter.. I just like to be a megalomaniac and claim that I know all the things... Some day it will haunt me though, just like Neighbourhood haunted me, too.

[BoomFrog]

The more you win the harder it is to win. If you have a good scumdar you get NKed early, if you are good at hiding that your scum then people won't belive you when your town. That's why this game leads to burnout. Still, well played, and I'll get you next time.

[t1mm01994]

I'm convinced you will, as you are much better than I am in my opinion.. I mean I never saw you misread someone yet when you are town. I have misread a lot, I just arroganted my way out of it...

[Adam H]

Well played t1mm. Though luck surely had something to do with it. We would have won if you had just done the sensible thing and checked the player I gave NC to.

Can't believe my final gambit of "accepting" the team with tmg didn't work in the least. Figured that would at least buy another proposal...

I think I took the wrong lesson from the last game where spies were all kind of linked together yet still won easily. Spies should distance themselves, just not with plot powers. I thought that buddying with infina and BF would not be suspicious because of the wine, but t1mm latched on to that and wouldn't let go.