[M] Political Parties Mafia: CNN projects: MAFIA WINS!

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[M] Political Parties Mafia: CNN projects: MAFIA WINS!

Postby Krong » Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:33 am UTC

Political Parties Mafia!
ImageImageImageImageImageImage

The residents of Caucus City had a problem. A mafia problem. A secret group of criminals were killing citizens at the frighteningly regular rate of one per night. The citizens did not approve.

The Caucus City Council had launched a series of investigations and police actions, but they'd proven ineffectual. The cops would get a warrant and descend in mass on a suspected hideout, only to find it recently abandoned. Clues suggested that the mafia was tipped off. It seemed the government itself was infiltrated.

Seeking an end to the violence, a few outspoken town residents began suggesting that the real problem wasn't the mafia faction
per se, but that there were two factions who were constantly fighting. A petition was soon taken up which asked the city council to resolve, once and for all, whether Caucus City would be a Town or Mafia community. Most of the town's residents signed it.

And so here they were, the Caucus City Council, convening at the Camp Gojoe lakeside retreat. The subject of the meeting was "The Town/Mafia Divide", and it was to be a meeting to the death. Each day, they would vote to execute a councilmember. Each night, the mafia would kill as well. Eventually, there would be resolution, even at a high cost in blood.

Additionally, each councilmember came into the meeting with their own ideas on how best to resolve the issue, and some idea of what action should be taken beyond the executions. Therefore, they formed up into political parties, in order to discuss the situation with like-minded people. Of course, the Mafia decided not to create a "Mafia Party", and instead joined up with parties as the others did.

In a crisis situation where other towns had used lynching, Caucus City would use politics. And lynching, too, of course.



This is an open setup. All the rules for the game are listed below; if you have any questions, please PM (or ask in thread when the game's started) and I will answer.

Players
1.TheMaskedGecko MAFIA
2. greenlover TOWN
3. ahammel MAFIA
4. Misnomer Lynched D4, TOWN
5. webby Killed N1, TOWN
6. wam TOWN
7. Adam H Lynched D1, TOWN
8. Angua Killed N3, TOWN
9. mpolo Killed N2, TOWN
10. Snark TOWN
11. CaptainFinglass MAFIA
12. JesseScottOwen Lynched D2, TOWN

Replacements:
1.Tim
2.
3.
Last edited by Krong on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:14 am UTC, edited 13 times in total.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Trouble in Caucus City

Postby Krong » Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:33 am UTC

RULES, SIMPLIFIED:
There are 3 vanilla mafia and 9 vanilla townies. Before each day, everyone has the choice to join a party for the next day. Each party has certain powers that the party members decide to use in group chat. The game is basically nightless, with a 24-hour twilight period at day-end to finalize actions that take place during the night. Mafia can always scumchat once the game starts, and the mafia possesses a team nightkill.

Parties need a minimum of 3 prospective members to be active. If an active party becomes inactive, it is dissolved, and cannot be joined from then on. Players who cannot join the party they chose, or who chose not to join a party, are Independents, and have no special party ability.

Typical forum mafia rules apply:
1. do not edit your posts
2. DO NOT EDIT YOUR POSTS
3. no reading spoilers for this game until you're dead, and no talking when you're dead
4. don't sabotage your team or flame other players
5. actions and votes should be in bold
6. have fun!

RULES, OFFICIAL:
Spoiler:
1. Standard Mafia Rules
a) Factions

There are two factions, Town and Mafia. Town wins when all Mafia players are eliminated. Mafia wins when Town can no longer achieve their objective. There are 9 Town players and 3 Mafia players. Faction alignments are chosen at random. All roles are "vanilla", i.e., no individual player has a special power.

Mafia members are told who their teammates are at the start of the game. Mafia members may freely day and night chat starting when Day 1 begins. Note that this means they can NOT chat during the "Night 0" phase. Please include me on all communications.

The role PMs are as follows:
You are TOWN.


You are MAFIA. Your teammates are ___ and ___.


You may not chat until Day 1 has begun. After that, you may day and night chat freely. Please include me on all PMs.

b) Voting

Before the deadline, a player is lynched by a majority vote. At the deadline, the top vote-getter with 30% of the vote, rounded up, of the number of remaining players will be lynched. If no player has this many votes or if the vote is tied, the result is a no-lynch.

If a majority vote is reached on a player, do not talk in the thread except to help verify the votecount.

A single hidden vote may be cast on a player each day by the Fish Party, so be aware that the reported lynch totals for a player may be one less than the real value.

c) Death

The town may choose a lynch target each day, or a target of "No Lynch" to choose not to lynch.

The mafia may choose a target to kill each night, as may the Bear Party. Morning flavor will not make the source of the kill clear.

Alignments of lynched/killed players will be revealed in the morning following their death. Dead players may not talk beyond something like "arrgh, I'm dead" that reveals no information. Once you are dead, you are out of the game and may read discussion thread spoilers.

d) Day/Night

All actions should be submitted during Day; "Night" will be just a brief phase where nothing happens other than the mod sorting out the results of actions. At the end of each day, there will be a 24-hour "Twilight" phase for you to wrap up any unresolved business from the day. During Twilight, players may do the following:
* Vote on party decisions (even if you were the one lynched!)
* If mafia, chat and submit a kill target
* Attempt to join a new party

2. Party Rules

a) Choosing a party
In addition to their Town/Mafia alignment, each player may be a member of a single party or an "Independent". There are six parties that a player could be a member of. All parties are initially "Inactive", and all players are initially Independents.

The game starts with a Night 0 phase. During this phase and on each night thereafter, a player may try to join a party. To do so, PM the mod with the name of the party you would like to be assigned to. If you do not send a PM, I will assume you wish to stay in your current party. You may also choose to be assigned as an Independent.

If at least 3 players are assigned to a party at the start of a day, that party becomes "Active", with those players as its members. If an "Active" party has fewer than 3 members at the start of a day, it becomes "Dissolved". Dissolved parties may never be joined again, and any player who was in a Dissolved party becomes an Independent. The number of members needed drops from 3 to 2 starting on the morning of Day Four.

I will list all the parties and whether they are Inactive, Active, or Dissolved. The exception is the Fish Party, for which I will only list "Potentially Active" or "Dissolved".

The Night 0 phase is only for the initial choice of your party -- no discussion, chat, kills, or other actions take place during that phase.

b) Parties

Players in parties have the ability to daychat with their fellow party members. Please include me on all communications. You must send any party communication to all members of the party -- you may not exclude anyone, or send different things to different people. If forum limitations prevent you from including all your party members as recipients, please send your message twice. Please do not directly quote from chat in-thread.

Party affiliation is public information and will be noted at the start of each day. The exception is members of the Fish Party, who will be listed as Independents, though they themselves will know their fellow members.

Parties provide certain powers and restrictions; most of those powers act based off a majority vote action from the party chat. A player who is Independent is not in any party, and thus does not have any special party-based abilities, restrictions, or chat.

A list of all parties and their powers is in the next post.

3. Other Rules
a) Deadlines

Each day will have a deadline of one week, except Day 1 which will have a deadline of 10 days to allow for extra discussion. Each twilight will last for 24 hours, starting from the time the end of the day is announced in the thread.

b) Activity and Lurking

You should post content in the main thread about once a (real-life) day. If you go for three days without posting content, you will be modprodded as a warning. If you do not respond to the modprod, you will be replaced if replacements are available, and modkilled otherwise.

There are no activity requirements for mafia chat or party chat.

c) Do not edit your posts
DO NOT EDIT YOUR POSTS. Make a new post instead.

d) Should be obvious by now

Do not play to lose. Do not read discussion thread spoilers until you are dead. Be respectful of other players. Type in boldface when saying something to the mod. Finally, the mod is all-powerful and all-knowing, and his glorious decisions are final.

4. Order of Operations

This list describes the order in which actions take effect every day/night cycle.

During day:
Fish Party (secret vote)
All other actions and party-changes should be submitted at day.

During night:
Lynch
Turtle Party (protect)
Bear Party (kill)
Mafia (kill)
Bird Party (cop)
Rabbit Party (change a player's party affiliation)
Monkey Party (change a party to inactive or dissolved)
Parties assigned

5. Other other rules
1. How do party actions work? How does the voting go, and do we have to use our action?

The choice with the highest number of votes at the end of the day is what will take effect. If there is no highest number of votes (i.e. a tie), no action will be taken. Vote in party chat with the standard wording, i.e.

Vote: X


"No Action" is a choice in voting for all parties. But come on, politicians not using all power available to them? Madness, I say, madness!

If your party's action involves a combination of decisions, each combination is a separate choice.

For example, the Bird Party chooses both an investigation target and investigation recipient. If you are in Bird Party, voting might look like this:

Vote: Investigate Bob, send results to Sue


Votals:
1 - Investigate Bob, send results to Sue
1 - Investigate Bob, send results to Jim
2 - Investigate Dora, send results to Jim


I will occasionally verify the action vote totals in your party chat. I will not reveal action votes, totals, final choices, or really anything from party chat to the main thread. Of course, you're free to do that yourself, but do not directly quote party chat in the main thread.

2. Explain again what the deal is with parties being active, inactive, and dissolved.

Political parties throughout history have their sudden appearances, their moments of power, and their falls into meaninglessness. Parties in this game must have a certain amount of support to operate.

Each night, you may choose to join any party, or to stay in the one you were in. At the start of the next day, after all night actions take effect, I'll go through each party and see if it has enough members to be active. (That number starts as 3, but changes to 2 late in the game; see below.)

If a party was INACTIVE the previous day and now has enough members, it becomes ACTIVE. Otherwise, it remains INACTIVE, and all members become Independents.
If a party was ACTIVE the previous day and still has enough members, it remains ACTIVE. Otherwise, it is DISSOLVED, and all members become Independents.
If a party is DISSOLVED, it will never be active again unless the Monkey party brings it back.

Here's an example:

Code: Select all
Day 1        Party Choice    Actual Party    Listed as
Alice        Moose           Moose           Moose
Bob          Moose           Moose           Moose
Charlie      Moose           Moose           Moose
Dora         Peacock         Peacock         Peacock
Edmund       Peacock         Peacock         Peacock
Francine     Peacock         Peacock         Peacock
George       Llama           Independent     Independent
Helen        Giraffe         Independent     Independent
Isaac        Fish            Fish            Independent
Jim          Fish            Fish            Independent
Kristen      Fish            Fish            Independent
Laura        Fish            Fish            Independent

Moose & Peacock are listed as Active.  Fish is listed as Potentially Active.  All others remain Inactive.


Day 2        Party Choice    Actual Party    Listed as
Alice        Moose           Moose           Moose
Bob          Moose           Moose           Moose
Charlie      Moose           Moose           Moose
Dora         Peacock         Independent     Independent     
Edmund       Llama           Llama           Llama           
Francine     Llama           Llama           Llama           
George       Llama           Llama           Llama           
Helen        Giraffe         Independent     Independent
Isaac        Fish            Independent     Independent
Jim          Fish            Independent     Independent
Kristen      Fish            Killed by lynch -
Laura        Fish            Killed by NK    -

Moose & Llama are listed as Active.  Fish and Peacock are listed as Dissolved.  All others remain Inactive.


3. Starting on Night 3 / the morning of Day 4, parties will be active if they have at least TWO (2) members, instead of three.

4. The No Sudden Fish rule: the Fish Party secret vote does not go into effect until 24 hours have passed since the start of the day.

5. You may not directly quote partychat in the main thread, but you can paraphrase.

6. Though Fish Party members will not be publicly announced, they'll know who each other are.
Last edited by Krong on Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:17 pm UTC, edited 7 times in total.
The answer to the question "What’s wrong with the world?" is just two words: "I am." -- G. K. Chesterton (attributed)
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Trouble in Caucus City

Postby Krong » Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:34 am UTC

PARTIES

Inactive:
Rabbit
Monkey

Active:
Bear

Potentially Active:
Fish

Dissolved:
Turtle
Bird

PARTY DESCRIPTIONS
Spoiler:
Image
Bear Party

Politics is about power; the members of the Bear Party understand this. The only thing the mafia respects is strength, so the town must be as ruthless as they are. The Bear Party members pledge to fight together to bring the mafia to an appropriately bloody end.

Action: Nightkill a chosen player who is not in the Bear Party.

Image
Rabbit Party

The Rabbit Party has to be honest with you: they forget why they chose a rabbit as a mascot. Something about everyone else being slow? In any event, the members of the Rabbit Party believe in a technocratic government, where the intelligent keep the stupid from making mistakes. Left to their own illogical and absurd systems of reasoning, the other parties would surely give mafia the victory.

Action: Choose the party membership of a player for the next day. The player will be assigned as if they had submitted that choice.

Image
Monkey Party

You know what the problem with politics is? The Monkey Party does! Everything's just too stagnant and uninteresting. The same old parties having the same old debates over and over again. Let's get rid of that crap! Maybe even bring back the Whig Party! No idea what they were about... hairpieces? Whatever it is, we have to try something different to get rid of the mafia.

Action: Change a party to the dissolved or inactive state. You may choose ANY party, even parties that are dissolved or that currently have members. (If you make a party inactive that has 3 or more prospective members, it will become active again; check the order of operations in the rules post.)

Image
Turtle Party

The primary duty of government in a democratic society is to secure the rights of the people. And what right could be more fundamental than the right not to be murdered in one's sleep? The Turtle Party stands for the safety of the citizenry, and acts to prevent the mafia from exercising its cruelty.

Action: A chosen player is immune to nightkills tonight.

Image
Bird Party

The Bird Party believes in the power of investigation. The mafia likes to think they work in secret, but an eagle-eyed detective should be able to find them out. And besides, it is only right to find proof of a suspect's guilt before sending them to the gallows.

Action: The alignment (Mafia/Town) of one chosen target player is sent to a second chosen recipient player.

Image
Fish Party

There is something fishy about the Fish Party. Its membership is anonymous, lurking deep under the surface of society. How long have they been there? How many do they number, and how much power do they wield? Are they oiling the gears of government for the betterment of the community, or perverting its processes to their own ends?

All members of the Fish Party show up as Independents. The Fish Party will display as "Potentially Active" if it is Inactive or Active behind-the-scenes.
Action: Cast one secret vote in the lynch tally. This is a day action. The secret vote will be changed/removed to match the vote in party-chat.


Image
Independents

Not actually a party, Independents are those who, for whatever reason, are not members of a party. Maybe not enough people share their beliefs. Maybe they were in a party, but someone else manipulated the situation. Maybe they don't like the idea of having to compromise with others. And maybe, just maybe, there's something fishy about them...

Independents are not members of any party. They do not have any party chat or any party powers.
Last edited by Krong on Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:02 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Trouble in Caucus City

Postby Krong » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:22 am UTC

All roles have been sent out! Please PM me if you didn't get one.

The game is currently in Night 0. Look over the rules and please PM me if you have any questions. Please don't post in the thread or PM any other players yet.

Day 1 will start as soon as I have everyone's initial party choice.


The reason why questions should be PM'd rather than posted in-thread is to avoid questions that influence other players. For instance, if lots of people are asking about one party, you could guess that a good number of people are interested in joining it. However, for this initial choice of party, you're going in blind. :P
The answer to the question "What’s wrong with the world?" is just two words: "I am." -- G. K. Chesterton (attributed)
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Trouble in Caucus City

Postby Krong » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:07 am UTC

I've had a couple of questions about things I thought I'd addressed in the rules, but it turns out I was planning to write them and forgot to actually do so. :roll: I'm making additions to the rules above as well as posting here.

1. How do party actions work? How does the voting go, and do we have to use our action?

Spoiler:
The choice with the highest number of votes at the end of the day is what will take effect. If there is no highest number of votes (i.e. a tie), no action will be taken. Vote in party chat with the standard wording, i.e.

Vote: X


"No Action" is a choice in voting for all parties.
But come on, politicians not using all power available to them? Madness, I say, madness!

If your party's action involves a combination of decisions, each combination is a separate choice.

For example, the Bird Party chooses both an investigation target and investigation recipient. If you are in Bird Party, voting might look like this:

Vote: Investigate Bob, send results to Sue


Votals:
1 - Investigate Bob, send results to Sue
1 - Investigate Bob, send results to Jim
2 - Investigate Dora, send results to Jim


I will occasionally verify the action vote totals in your party chat. I will not reveal action votes, totals, final choices, or really anything from party chat to the main thread. Of course, you're free to do that yourself, but do not directly quote party chat in the main thread.


2. Explain again what the deal is with parties being active, inactive, and dissolved.

Spoiler:
Political parties throughout history have their sudden appearances, their moments of power, and their falls into meaninglessness. Parties in this game must have a certain amount of support to operate.

Each night, you may choose to join any party, or to stay in the one you were in. At the start of the next day, after all night actions take effect, I'll go through each party and see if it has enough members to be active. (That number starts as 3, but changes to 2 late in the game; see below.)

If a party was INACTIVE the previous day and now has enough members, it becomes ACTIVE. Otherwise, it remains INACTIVE, and all members become Independents.
If a party was ACTIVE the previous day and still has enough members, it remains ACTIVE. Otherwise, it is DISSOLVED, and all members become Independents.
If a party is DISSOLVED, it will never be active again unless the Monkey party brings it back.


Here's an example:

Code: Select all
Day 1        Party Choice    Actual Party    Listed as
Alice        Moose           Moose           Moose
Bob          Moose           Moose           Moose
Charlie      Moose           Moose           Moose
Dora         Peacock         Peacock         Peacock
Edmund       Peacock         Peacock         Peacock
Francine     Peacock         Peacock         Peacock
George       Llama           Independent     Independent
Helen        Giraffe         Independent     Independent
Isaac        Fish            Fish            Independent
Jim          Fish            Fish            Independent
Kristen      Fish            Fish            Independent
Laura        Fish            Fish            Independent

Moose & Peacock are listed as Active.  Fish is listed as Potentially Active.  All others remain Inactive.


Day 2        Party Choice    Actual Party    Listed as
Alice        Moose           Moose           Moose
Bob          Moose           Moose           Moose
Charlie      Moose           Moose           Moose
Dora         Peacock         Independent     Independent     
Edmund       Llama           Llama           Llama           
Francine     Llama           Llama           Llama           
George       Llama           Llama           Llama           
Helen        Giraffe         Independent     Independent
Isaac        Fish            Independent     Independent
Jim          Fish            Independent     Independent
Kristen      Fish            Killed by lynch -
Laura        Fish            Killed by NK    -

Moose & Llama are listed as Active.  Fish and Peacock are listed as Dissolved.  All others remain Inactive.


Additionally, I've added the following to the rules for balance/fun/clarification reasons:

1. Starting on Night 3 / the morning of Day 4, parties will be active if they have at least TWO (2) members, instead of three.
2. The No Sudden Fish rule: the Fish Party secret vote does not go into effect until 24 hours have passed since the start of the day.
3. You may not directly quote partychat in the main thread, but you can paraphrase.
4. Though Fish Party members will not be publicly announced, they'll know who each other are.


-------

I have received all party choices (quicker than I expected, thanks!) The game will start in about 24 hours, so if you have any more questions or would like to change your party selection, please do so soon.
The answer to the question "What’s wrong with the world?" is just two words: "I am." -- G. K. Chesterton (attributed)
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby Krong » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:08 am UTC

After a quick meet-and-greet/photo-op in front of the Camp Gojoe Convention Complex, the councilmembers finally settled down to business. Gathered in comfortable leather chairs around an absurdly large wooden table, they eyed each other.

"Um... on the count of three put on your party membership button?" someone hazarded.

1... 2... 3...

A frantic bit of fumbling with lapels followed several nervous looks around the table. When things settled down, it turned out that only two parties had made an appearance at this meeting-to-the-death: the Turtle Party and the Bird Party. Meanwhile, three people had no lapel buttons at all.

Don't worry, though: everyone had remembered their flag pins. They were clearly all true patriots.


12 players alive, 7 to lynch
4 to lynch at deadline

Deadline is Saturday, March 31st, at 10:00 PM Eastern Time. (10 days from now.)
Please remember that actions should be mostly decided at day, with a short twilight to finalize.

Votals:
none

Party Membership:

Image
Turtle
  • TheMaskedGecko
  • Adam H
  • mpolo

Image
Bird
  • greenlover
  • webby
  • wam
  • Angua
  • Snark
  • CaptainFinglass

Image
Independents
  • ahammel
  • Misnomer
  • JesseScottOwen

Party Status:
Bear:
Inactive
Rabbit: Inactive
Monkey: Inactive
Turtle: Active
Bird: Active
Fish: Potentially Active

BEGIN DAY ONE
The answer to the question "What’s wrong with the world?" is just two words: "I am." -- G. K. Chesterton (attributed)
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby Snark » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:36 am UTC

Hello all! This is completely hilarious. I had a huge thing typed up and ready to go detailing how no parties should operate on D1 except the Bird and Turtle parties. I guess that's no longer something to worry about. :)

Here's a good preliminary strategy for town.

Day 1:

Let everyone elect which Bird will get to investigate. The Turtle party should protect that Bird. If the Bird dies, then the Turtle Party is corrupt (has 2 or more mafia). If the Bird lives, they'll be able to tell us useful info (whether or not it's truthful).
I sincerely doubt that the 3 independents make up the Fish party, but I think they should claim if they are and vote for No Action before day's end in case they have 2 or more mafia among them.

Day 2 and on:

Option A
On D2 and ever after, everyone should choose to go to the Bear Party.
The reason is that we don't want to risk any setups where the mafia control a party (especially Bear).
If anyone doesn't show up in the Bear Party on D2, we'll assume that they're mafia and lynch them (or use the Bear Parties kill on them).
This eliminates some of the fun of choosing different parties from the game, but it's a solid strategy that converts this game into vanilla lynchs and NKs with nothing fancy.

Option B
Half of everyone goes Bird and the other half goes Turtle (we'll decide together who goes where). If they go somewhere else, lynch them. The Turtles can protect whichever Bird investigates during the night. This will make sure the Bird Investigator stays alive to tell their results.
This gives more info than Option A, and I can't think of any reason not to choose it.

If anyone has improvements or better ideas, I'd be glad to hear them.

I'm most suspicious of the independents, because they probably went for things like Bear that would be alluring to the mafia. Everyone else seems slightly townie for choosing Cop/Doctor roles that can't be used in any way (of which I know) that helps mafia.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby JesseScottOwen » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:09 am UTC

I didn't really pay attention to the descriptions and submitted Rabbit with no real strategy. For those of you following along at home, that means the Fish party is as of now inactive. Snark's strategies sound valid, although I am looking forward to seeing if anyone else has come up with any other ideas. Glad the game has started!

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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby ahammel » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:14 am UTC

I went Bear. My reasoning was basically what Snark said under D2 strategy: mafia-controlled Bear is very bad for town. If the mafia got two kills on the first night and got lucky with the lynch, it would be 3 vs. 6 on day two.

I'm curious as to what the other two independents selected. There's no Bear, so at least one of them selected Rabbit, Monkey, Fish or Indie, and I don't see what use any of those are to town.

Ninja'd: Rabbit? Seems a bit suspect. What good are the rabbits to town?
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby CaptainFinglass » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:26 am UTC

Not sure that saying Doctor/Cop roles aren't helpful to the Mafia is a good strategy. If the mafia can control the Bird, they can ensure we don't investigate mafia members, which means we can't find them, at least not initially. If they can control the Turtle, they can make sure they protect any mafia member who might be at risk. That being said, I think a good strategy would be to try and dissolve the Bear party, or ensure that enough people are in it that the Town has control. No need to give the mafia a second killing tool to play with.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby Angua » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:08 am UTC

Right, so 2 parties. This is going to be a difficult game to play, as I imagine we'll end up with a large proportion of it occurring via pm.

As for the idea behind party switching - we need to be careful that we try and keep our options open for as long as possible. If we all move to bear, we won't be able to move back to bird or turtle again. I'm also not all that sure if bear is that useful considering the small number of mafia around. I would suggest only going to it as an endgame strategy.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby webby » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:11 am UTC

A few observations:

There's no reason to talk in birdchat. I think bird was the obvious choice for scum for the simple reason that it was a power that town clearly wanted, and if there's a scum in bird they can make sure that they know exactly who is using the power and kill them. Therefore, I would bet that there's at least one scum in bird, given it contains half the players. Based on Krong's opening post, it looks like scum did not get chat Night 0 (I'm assuming this based on 'Please don't post in the thread or PM any other players yet.'), so I would make a guess that there may be multiple birdscum. Three of the players I have never played with before so I have no idea how experienced they are, how much they'd be likely to think it through and come to that conclusion etc. Greenlover and Angua are reasonably experienced.

The turtle party also has motivation for scum to join it, as they know who not to nightkill. Also, it's a good option to look townie and I could see any of the three turtles making that play - it's typical of mpolo/TheMaskedGecko to look to stay under the radar as scum and it would make sense for Adam H to try that strategy after losing in resistance as spy. I see no information on alignment that we've gained from the fact their party choice. Their chat should probably remain secret as there is a reasonable chance that all three are town (~40% if we assume no information about what choosing turtle says about their alignment). However, smart scum may have avoided joining the turtle party in the hope that it would be inactive, making the bear party useless. I'm therefore marginally less suspicious of the turtles.

The three independents, we have a bear and a rabbit claim. Rabbit is entirely pointless as either town or scum (at least on day 1) and I can't see it coming into existence. No alignment information there. Bear is a decent choice if only to make it active today, then get it dissolved tomorrow. The bear party is dangerous for as long as three scum exist (or two on day 4). It's currently 9-3, if we mislynch it's 7-3 and we can't afford a bear and another mislynch. If we lynch today (but see idea below), I reckon we assume day 2 bears are scum.

Still waiting to hear what Misnomer chose.

The 'No Sudden Fish rule' means we can just lynch any independent in the first 24 hours on future days, making the Fish Party pointless.

My guess would be that the objectively best strategy is to no lynch. Pick the towniest player, give them the cop result, protect them. Cop the scummiest player (scum will kill any town that we'd otherwise have a town cop result on and we'd have to be very unlucky to get scum to cop scum). Repeat. Dissolve the bear party by having three players join it tomorrow and withhold their action. Have everyone else join the turtle and bird parties and everyone tell them what to do. What do people think of that?
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby webby » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:14 am UTC

The sentence 'making the bear party useless' should have read 'making the bird party useless'. The point being that without turtles, scum could just kill whoever was elected to receive the bird result, meaning that for scum joining the birds may have been preferable to joining the turtles.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby wam » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:26 am UTC

I think that Snarks day 1 strategy is pretty good. Im not so sure about day 2 though.

My opinion would be to keep 3 in the turtle and 3 in bird. With at least 4 in bear. With 4 in bear to get control of the kill scum would need to put in all their members. If town agree to vote no action for bear, it means either no one extra will be NK which is good for town or if a townie is night killed is give a high probability that the majority of the members are scum.

The other party I am worried about scum having control of, especially late in the game, is the Fish party. As it could easily swing the numbers in scums favour. For example in several days if its 4-2 but scum have control of the fish, the extra vote could be crucial.

Unmentioned parties

Personally the rabbit party seems a bit underpowered and I can't really see any strategys where it would be useful. The monkey party looks like it could be a very useful tool to deprive town of powers or too reinstate them. But it is hard to see how it could be used currently without depriving town or scum of more useful powers.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby Snark » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:40 pm UTC

wam wrote:My opinion would be to keep 3 in the turtle and 3 in bird. With at least 4 in bear. With 4 in bear to get control of the kill scum would need to put in all their members. If town agree to vote no action for bear, it means either no one extra will be NK which is good for town or if a townie is night killed is give a high probability that the majority of the members are scum.


webby wrote:My guess would be that the objectively best strategy is to no lynch. Pick the towniest player, give them the cop result, protect them. Cop the scummiest player (scum will kill any town that we'd otherwise have a town cop result on and we'd have to be very unlucky to get scum to cop scum). Repeat. Dissolve the bear party by having three players join it tomorrow and withhold their action. Have everyone else join the turtle and bird parties and everyone tell them what to do. What do people think of that?
.

I love wam and webby's strategy, but it needs a small twerk. If we put 3 in any party, the mafia can just lynch the party with the fewest members rendering it inactive (or dissolved).

I like webby's plan to NL today, but then we need to assign 4 people apiece to Bird,Turtle, and Bear. No matter who the mafia kill N1, we'll still have at least 3 people in each party and thus have 3 active parties tomorrow. If the mafia don't go to their prescribed parties, we know they're mafia, and we lynch them. On N2, half of us go to Turtle and half go to Bird and no one goes to Bear which dissolves it. From there we continue with what webby said (and what I mentioned here).

If anyone can think of a reason why this won't work, let's hear it. Otherwise let's get some discussion going so we can decide who to cop and which Bird will do the copping. My vote is for me or webby (seems townie) to cop JesseScottOwen (who claimed having "no reason" for choosing Rabbit). But I still want to hear from Misnomer, greenlover, and the Turtles.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby ahammel » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:50 pm UTC

wam wrote:My opinion would be to keep 3 in the turtle and 3 in bird. With at least 4 in bear.

This won't work. If we agree "players a, b, and c go to the Birds and x, y, and z go to the turtles", if scum nightkill any of those six players town is out a power the next day. We need to assign four players to a party in order to guarantee its existence the next day.

The other worry is that scum could get two players in the Birds, then use their majority to exonerate the third.

Edit: ninja'd
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby JesseScottOwen » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:07 pm UTC

Snark wrote:If anyone can think of a reason why this won't work, let's hear it. Otherwise let's get some discussion going so we can decide who to cop and which Bird will do the copping. My vote is for me or webby (seems townie) to cop JesseScottOwen (who claimed having "no reason" for choosing Rabbit). But I still want to hear from Misnomer, greenlover, and the Turtles.


I like this plan. I would like to be copped as soon as possible if there is any suspicion. I would elect Webby to do it, just on principle that nominating oneself is sketchy.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby Misnomer » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Hey all,

I chose Monkey because, too be blunt, it sounded the most interesting.

Snark's D1 strategy sounds good. Their D2 strategies are also sound, albeit somewhat boring.

I'm not keen on the NL idea however - I think there's always a temptation in games like this to over-rely on actual investigation abilities, while neglecting the tools that make scumhunting possible, such as voting records.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby Snark » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:32 pm UTC

There are currently two strategies being thrown around for D2: A) Split up into Bird/Turtle or B) split into Bird/Turtle/Bear so we can leave Bear on D3 and dissolve it.

If we lynch today, in the best case scenario we hit a scum, but we'll only have 11 people and won't be able to give 4 apiece to Bird/Turtle/Bear. Then our best strategy for being in all 3 parties tomorrow is: we give Bird 4 people, Turtle and Bear get 3 apiece. Then we choose an 11th person to flip a coin deciding between Turtle and Bear. If that 11th person is scum, they'll kill someone in whichever party they choose not to go to and dissolve that party. This is very bad. Even if they're town, the scum have a 1/2 chance of guessing which party will have 3 townies tomorrow and dissolving it by killing one of its members.
Here's the math. The probability of scum messing up our Option B (if we get lucky and lynch a scum D2) = P(11th person is scum) + P(11th person is town)*P(mafia guesses correctly which party will have 3) = (2/11) + (9/11)(1/2) = 59% chance that scum will mess up Option B. That's horrible odds.

The point is:
-If we lynch today, we should NOT do option B. Period.
-If we don't lynch today, we have a choice between Option A and B.

I personally think that Option A is much better. Yes, it'd be bad for mafia to control the Bear Party, but if they move to the Bear Party (or anywhere else besides Bird/Turtle), we know precisely who the mafia are, and we lynch them. If scum decide to lay low (the intelligent option), then the game will be converted to 1 lynch per today, 1 NK per night, and 1 cop result per day. I think that gives a big advantage to town. :) And the great thing is, we can lynch or NL today, and it won't mess up the strategy.

Vote: half go Bird, half go Turtle for D2
Vote: I or webby (seems townie) get the investigation results
Vote: Investigate JesseScottOwen (for having no reason to join Rabbit)
Vote: Don't put in votes for lynches or no lynches until we've decided on our strategy (which half of us will go Bird, which Bird gets to investigate N1, and who gets investigated N1)
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby webby » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:51 pm UTC

A couple of quick things - Jesse if you're town, town in this game should not want to be investigated. Given the target of the investigation is going to be known to scum, any townie that gets investigated is obviously going to be killed (we can't play games about who the doctor protects in case there's turtlescum). Therefore, investigating town is not useful to us.

I'm not convinced Jesse is necessarily the best target for investigation at this stage - I can't see how his choice was useful to town, but I equally can't see why it would be a good choice as scum? Neutral for now.

Nominating oneself is not sketchy, you should always want to be the person who receives the investigation result, whether you're scum or town - it has to be good for your team. Whether the rest of the players accept that nomination is another matter. :P
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby ahammel » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:58 pm UTC

Snark wrote:There are currently two strategies being thrown around for D2: A) Split up into Bird/Turtle or B) split into Bird/Turtle/Bear so we can leave Bear on D3 and dissolve it.

Sorry, maybe I misunderstand the rules, but I thought that the only way to permanently dissolve a party was to have the Monkeys do it? In order to shut down the Bears, town needs to send at least three to the Monkeys.

If we want to go that route, we should send four to Bird, four to Turtle and three to Monkey (assuming a lynch). That way, even if scum do decide to block the Monkeys from forming we still have the cop and doctor roles. Still, seems like the risks outweigh the benefits with that plan. I'd be willing to consider it, though, if anybody disagrees.

Vote: half Bird and half Turtle D2.
Vote: investigate JesseScottOwen

I'm not yet sure enough of anybody's town status to vote for a cop, though (although Snark gets townie points for his contributions so far).

Ninja edit:

webby wrote:I'm not convinced Jesse is necessarily the best target for investigation at this stage - I can't see how his choice was useful to town, but I equally can't see why it would be a good choice as scum?

It wouldn't, but we have no way of confirming that he did, in fact, choose Rabbit. Any of the other three would be reasonable mafia choices.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby Snark » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:01 pm UTC

@webby - You've mentioned twice that scum will kill any townies we cop, and I just now got it through my thick skull.

Never mind my idea of investigating JSO. Whichever bird gets to investigate should choose who to investigate without telling anyone until the following day so that confirmed townies can stay alive at least 1 day.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby ahammel » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:14 pm UTC

Snark wrote:@webby - You've mentioned twice that scum will kill any townies we cop, and I just now got it through my thick skull.

Never mind my idea of investigating JSO. Whichever bird gets to investigate should choose who to investigate without telling anyone until the following day so that confirmed townies can stay alive at least 1 day.

The rules seem to indicate that the Birds must vote on the investigation target using party chat:

For example, the Bird Party chooses both an investigation target and investigation recipient. If you are in Bird Party, voting might look like this:

Vote: Investigate Bob, send results to Sue
Votals:
1 - Investigate Bob, send results to Sue
1 - Investigate Bob, send results to Jim
2 - Investigate Dora, send results to Jim


Mod, could you please confirm that I'm reading that correctly?
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby wam » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:16 pm UTC

I think we should go for 4 bird 4 turtle and 3 bear if we lynch. That way if scum kill one off from bear the party just doesnt form. If they kill one of the others off from the parties they are still active.

Also its my understanding that if a party is active and runs out of members it becomes dissovled.

Also having run through several scenarios we need to watch out for a scum dive for the fish party on N3/D4. I can post the scenarios if people think its a good idea but I don't want to give away too much information.

Im happy with one of snark or webby getting the cop result. I don't think we should cop JSO instead we should cop one of the people who we vote to keep in bird as I feel thats the party we need to make sure is kept under town control.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby Snark » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:37 pm UTC

wam wrote:I think we should go for 4 bird 4 turtle and 3 bear if we lynch. That way if scum kill one off from bear the party just doesnt form. If they kill one of the others off from the parties they are still active.


What if scum NK a Bird and also one of the scum in Bird moves to a different party. This would dissolve the Bird party. I don't see anything to gain from joining groups besides Fish and Turtle. It just complicates things and gives scum more options. If this changes later in the game, we can figure it out then.

Mod, are the Birds allow to elect a specific Bird to receive the results without specifying whom that Bird must target?

If so, the Birds should do this to minimize the chances that scum will know who we're copping.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby Adam H » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:18 pm UTC

Bear party should ABSOLUTELY NOT be formed (yet). A couple reasons. First, we want to extend the game to get cop results. Second, the kill will be influenced by scum, which makes it worse than a vig (who in a vanilla game should withhold their kill n1 and n2, usually). Third, bear party will very likely be useful end game if we get into a sticky situation, and if we make it active now, it's likely to be dissolved before we actually need it.

Fos: ahammel, for picking bear (or claiming to).

Plan: if you leave or switch parties: you are scum. The independents should come to turtle, if they do not, they are scum. I don't want any crap with "accidentally" dissolving bird or turtle.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby Snark » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:36 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:Plan: if you leave or switch parties: you are scum. The independents should come to turtle, if they do not, they are scum. I don't want any crap with "accidentally" dissolving bird or turtle.


What he said. Seems the least confusing for the indy's to go turtle. Everyone else should stay with their current party. Does anyone have a problem with this plan?

Mod, will we stay in our same party for D2 if we don't PM you? Or will we become independent?
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby Krong » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:50 pm UTC

ahammel wrote:Mod, could you please confirm that I'm reading that correctly?

Snark wrote:Mod, are the Birds allow to elect a specific Bird to receive the results without specifying whom that Bird must target?


Yes to ahammel, no to Snark: The Bird Party's choice is of a target and a recipient, so both elements must be present. The recipient isn't being made into a cop with an ability to target people, they're just getting a useful bit of knowledge.

Snark wrote:Mod, will we stay in our same party for D2 if we don't PM you? Or will we become independent?


I'll assume you want to stay in your current party unless you tell me you want to change.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby TheMaskedGecko » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:56 pm UTC

Tactics: I'm almost always against no-lynches, on the basis that they give all the power to scum and gain us very little info. The only way I can see it being useful here is to gain us a day to sort ourselves into optimum parties. I think we should get the indies to go into bear and ask bird party to choose between them a player to go into turtle. At the moment with only three people we are at a real risk of being wiped out by the mafia, losing us one of the most useful powers for good.

Ninja'd: what those guys said, but with the caveat that if we're not changing parties then we should hold a lynch. Otherwise we learn next to nothing today and are still flrying blind tomorrow, except with one confirmed towny, who might be dead.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby CaptainFinglass » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:58 pm UTC

There’s the one problem though with switching vs not switching: depending on where the mafia have ended up, they could already be in a position where the control, or at least have some influence, in Bird or Turtle. Same for switching parties--they might not need to switch, which means we should still be a little cautious and maybe reorganize things as a bit of a group, because it looks like they couldn't talk during night zero. For all we know, they've all ended up in Bird or Turtle and are controlling one of those parties.

I like the plan to NL for now, but we need to sort out which parties are going to be the best ones to dissolve, because we all seem to be agreed on Turtle and Bird sticking around. I’d say get rid of Bear—even if used as an endgame strategy, any mafia that are still lurking around by then could use it to their advantage. I see no need for anyone to go Rabbit or Monkey, although the Fish party is iffy. If we get control of it, we can swing the vote towards people we all suspect of being scum. There’s the downside of the scum trying to do the exact same thing in reverse though.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby Adam H » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:08 am UTC

webby wrote:My guess would be that the objectively best strategy is to no lynch. Pick the towniest player, give them the cop result, protect them. Cop the scummiest player (scum will kill any town that we'd otherwise have a town cop result on and we'd have to be very unlucky to get scum to cop scum). Repeat. Dissolve the bear party by having three players join it tomorrow and withhold their action. Have everyone else join the turtle and bird parties and everyone tell them what to do. What do people think of that?
This is what everyone is referring to as the "plan to nl", yes?

I like webby for suggesting this, but I hate everyone who agrees with it. The "objectively best strategy" sounds nice, but this is not an objective game. If we don't play subjectively, we're going to have a tough time winning. I really think we'd better lynch today, otherwise we'll be flying blind tomorrow.

Look at CaptainFinglass's posts:
1) he suggests we put enough players in bear party so that mafia can't be in control.
2) he suggests that bird and turtle switch around so that in case mafia is in control of one party, they won't be after the switch. (This is obviously bad logic. If mafia is in control of bird or turtle, then it's because of dumb luck. If they are in control after we switch around, it's because we gave them the opportunity to manipulate us.)
3) he suggests nl.

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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby CaptainFinglass » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:04 am UTC

I'm curious as to what your strategy is then. The suggestion to either control or disolve the bear party is a legitimate one, IMO. Just saying, giving the mafia the oppertunity to have two kills a day seems like a bad plan.
Also, that was why I suggested the switching. So that if dumb luck is around, we have an oppertunity to control it. It's my first time with this game, so I'm a little iffy on the strategy to use. Please, do enlighten me.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby Adam H » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:32 am UTC

CaptainFinglass wrote:I'm curious as to what your strategy is then. The suggestion to either control or disolve the bear party is a legitimate one, IMO. Just saying, giving the mafia the oppertunity to have two kills a day seems like a bad plan.
Also, that was why I suggested the switching. So that if dumb luck is around, we have an oppertunity to control it. It's my first time with this game, so I'm a little iffy on the strategy to use. Please, do enlighten me.
Adam H wrote:Plan: if you leave or switch parties: you are scum. The independents should come to turtle, if they do not, they are scum. I don't want any crap with "accidentally" dissolving bird or turtle.
I think that covers it...

The thing is, we don't know who scum is, so we can't control whether scum is in a party or whatever it is you want to do. But scum DOES know how to get scum in the parties that benefit them the most.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby mpolo » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:09 am UTC

We have an advantage today because the mafia was unable to discuss what parties to join. I am suspecting that they are primarily in the birds and independents at the moment, but I can't eliminate the possibility that they joined the turtles to make sure their kills go through. The only thing that has me somewhat trusting my party-mates is that we actually only barely managed to get the party formed, so it's not like scum came en masse.

Adam's statement (repeated more clearly in party chat) that anybody leaving the turtles is almost certainly scum is very much true today with three members. It would be very worthwhile to get a couple more people into our party to prevent its being disbanded! The birds are in less danger there — even if all the scum are there (probably doubtful), it would take a kill to dissolve the party. I'm a bit nervous about allowing the bears to form before we have a bit of an idea where the scum are, especially when any plan to form the bears makes it somewhat likely that the turtles go down.

As for my teammates, I have a good feeling from Adam at the moment, and really no feeling from the Gecko.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby Snark » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:50 am UTC

Adam, please unvote. We should only vote to lynch or no-lynch after the Turtle Party knows which Bird to protect tonight.

I know 6 more votes is a long way to go, but we want to make sure that town knows their strategy before nightfall.

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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby Angua » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:27 pm UTC

I think you're being overly concerned about Adam's vote. A lot of people do that to try for emphasis.

Thinking about it more, I don't see why we should expend effort into dissolving bear. If we've decided that we're not going to use it, anyone who goes into bear looks scummy. It seems like a waste of time to put people into it for the express purpose of dissolving it.

I say we just stick with bird and turtle - that way we can kill mafia by good, old fashioned lynching, and we're less likely to lose those two powers.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby wam » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:58 pm UTC

Reading through the posts a few things have cropped up that seem odd to me.

Adam H posts

I like webby for suggesting this, but I hate everyone who agrees with it. The "objectively best strategy" sounds nice, but this is not an objective game. If we don't play subjectively, we're going to have a tough time winning. I really think we'd better lynch today, otherwise we'll be flying blind tomorrow


This doesn't make sense to me, why would you like the guy who suggests it but not anyone who agrees with him?

1) he suggests we put enough players in bear party so that mafia can't be in control.
2) he suggests that bird and turtle switch around so that in case mafia is in control of one party, they won't be after the switch. (This is obviously bad logic. If mafia is in control of bird or turtle, then it's because of dumb luck. If they are in control after we switch around, it's because we gave them the opportunity to manipulate us.)
3) he suggests nl.


1) thats a reasonable suggestion , or at least enough people that mafia would need to commit lots of resources to gain control, thereby allowing turtle and bird more freedom.

2) I cant find where he actually suggested this? Although finglass post was a bit rambling and hard to understand the point he was making.

3) lots of other people have suggested a NL.

Personally I am slightly in favour of a NL as it gives us more options with regards to parties and we should get more information. However i can see the arguments for lynching someone.

Therefore FOS:Adam H

Based on this my thoughts for the vote in bird would be investigate Adam H results going to webby/snark

Angua

Thinking about it more, I don't see why we should expend effort into dissolving bear. If we've decided that we're not going to use it, anyone who goes into bear looks scummy. It seems like a waste of time to put people into it for the express purpose of dissolving it.


The issue with this is if its still inactive near the end of the game scum could jump to it to double their kills and make it worse for town. So dissovlving it now when we have players to spare, seems to make sense to me.

Also im going to be away all weekend so won't be posting.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby Snark » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:49 pm UTC

Player Analysis so far:

Spoiler:
TheMaskedGecko
P1: Doesn't want to NL. Wants to form Bear.

Adam H
P1: Definitely doesn't want to form Bear. FoS: ahammel. Tells indy's to go to Turtle to avoid accident claims.
P2: Wants to lynch on D1. Votes CaptainFinglass for poor logic and suggesting NL.
P3: Defends vote for CaptainFinglass.

mpolo
P1: Says he mostly trusts his fellow turtles, mostly Adam, not so much Gecko.

greenlover
-

webby
P1: Long post. Advocates NL on D1. Wants to dissolve Bear party.
P2: Tells Jesse that town shouldn't want to get investigated.

wam
P1: Some poor strategy. Thinks Fish party might be dangerous near endgame.
P2: More poor strategy. Still thinks Fish is dangerous. Ok with Snark/webby being cop. Wants to use it on a Bird Party member.
P3: Refutes Adam H. Leaning towards NL. FoS: Adam H. Ok with Snark/webby being cop. Wants to use it on Adam H. Wants to dissolve Bear by joining it.

Angua
P1: Tiny post. Advocates keeping options open and not dissolving Bear.
P2: Tells Snark not to worry about Adam's vote. Doesn't want to dissolve Bear.

CaptainFinglass
P1: Advocates dissolving Bear.
P2: Poor strategy. Wants to NL. Wants to get rid of Bear.
P3: Slight rebuttal to Adam's vote for him.

ahammel
P1: Claimed Bear. Mild FoS at JSO for going Rabbit.
P2: Shows problems with wam's P1 strategy.
P3: Advocates not trying to dissolve Bear. Gives Snark townie points.
P4: Asks mod question about Bird voting.

Misnomer
P1: Claimed Monkey. Doesn't want to NL on D1.

JesseScottOwen
P1: "I didn't really pay attention to the descriptions and submitted Rabbit with no real strategy."
P2: "I would like to be copped as soon as possible if there is any suspicion."


Lists of current viewpoints:
Spoiler:
People who wish to form and dissolve Bear
-TheMaskedGecko
-webby
-wam
-CaptainFinglass
People who wish to leave Bear alone for now
-Adam H
-Angua
-ahammel
-Snark

People who wish to lynch D1
-TheMaskedGecko
-Adam H
-Misnomer
-Snark
People who wish to NL D1
-webby
-wam
-CaptainFinglass

Lurkers (active or otherwise): TheMaskedGecko, mpolo, greenlover, Angua, Misnomer


Summary:

The people who wish to form Bear for the purpose of dissolving it are severely misguided. The mafia can't use it against the town now or later. If the mafia join it now, we'll know exactly who the 3 mafia are. If they try to join it with 2 people later, we'll know exactly who 2 of the mafia members are. If the Bear Kill ever becomes worth the price of revealing themselves and the town fears that the scum will jump to Bear, the town can then decide for everyone to go to Bear so that scum won't have a majority vote there. Not to mention, splitting into 3 parties instead of 2 gives scum way more options and opportunities to dissolve one of the parties that we want to keep.
FoS: Everyone who wants to form Bear for the purpose of dissolving it.

Wanting to lynch seems more townie than wanting to NL.
Slight FoS: Everyone who wants to NL on D1.

I would prefer more content from TheMaskedGecko, mpolo, greenlover, Angua, and Misnomer.
Slight FoS: The lurkers.

I'm most concerned about webby, wam, and CaptainFinglass for triggering those first two FoS's.

Vote: wam
Because Adam H already voted CaptainFinglass and webby isn't acting as scummy as wam

Note: Let's not get too close to 7 votes until we've agreed on a plan, put in our party actions, and let the indy's have time to switch to Turtle. We don't want scum hammering before we're ready for D2.

My proposal:
1. I'd like everyone to agree that Birds will stay in Bird, and Indy's will move to Turtle for N1/D2.
2. I'd like to be the one to receive the cop results N1. I'd like to investigate wam, CaptainFinglass, or perhaps webby. I'd like the Turtles to protect me so that I survive the night to tell the results of the investigation. I'd like people to speak up about whether they're for or against this plan.
3. I think a D1 lynch of wam or CaptainFinglass would be in order.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby JesseScottOwen » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:34 pm UTC

I've PM'ed Krong. I'm Turtle until further notice.

It looks like several of the strategies will work whether we lynch or not, but a few good points have been made as to why we should lynch D1. So until I'm convinced otherwise, I think we should probably lynch.

Forming Bear for the purpose of dissolving it sounds like making a baby for the purpose of aborting it. Use birth control. If your significant other doesn't want to use birth control, lynch 'em. What works in life works in Mafia. :D If we decide to send three people to Bear to form it, and even one of them is Mafia, the other Mafia can jump in, overpower the vote, and get at least one extra night kill. So yeah, BAD IDEA.

Those are my only thoughts. They might be stupid.
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Re: [M] Political Parties Mafia: Day 1 - Bipartisanship?

Postby wam » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:29 pm UTC

I feel I should point this out at the beginning but this is my first ever game so thats why my strategies are probably a bit off!

I am also worried that the main suspicions are being leveled at me and finglass (who also said he was a newbie), who are probably just making newbie mistakes.

As to the points raised by Snark.


Firstly You seemed to have changed your mind rapidly!

Snark wrote:
wam wrote:My opinion would be to keep 3 in the turtle and 3 in bird. With at least 4 in bear. With 4 in bear to get control of the kill scum would need to put in all their members. If town agree to vote no action for bear, it means either no one extra will be NK which is good for town or if a townie is night killed is give a high probability that the majority of the members are scum.


webby wrote:My guess would be that the objectively best strategy is to no lynch. Pick the towniest player, give them the cop result, protect them. Cop the scummiest player (scum will kill any town that we'd otherwise have a town cop result on and we'd have to be very unlucky to get scum to cop scum). Repeat. Dissolve the bear party by having three players join it tomorrow and withhold their action. Have everyone else join the turtle and bird parties and everyone tell them what to do. What do people think of that?
.

I love wam and webby's strategy, but it needs a small twerk. If we put 3 in any party, the mafia can just lynch the party with the fewest members rendering it inactive (or dissolved).

I like webby's plan to NL today, but then we need to assign 4 people apiece to Bird,Turtle, and Bear. No matter who the mafia kill N1, we'll still have at least 3 people in each party and thus have 3 active parties tomorrow. If the mafia don't go to their prescribed parties, we know they're mafia, and we lynch them. On N2, half of us go to Turtle and half go to Bird and no one goes to Bear which dissolves it. From there we continue with what webby said (and what I mentioned here).

If anyone can think of a reason why this won't work, let's hear it. Otherwise let's get some discussion going so we can decide who to cop and which Bird will do the copping. My vote is for me or webby (seems townie) to cop JesseScottOwen (who claimed having "no reason" for choosing Rabbit). But I still want to hear from Misnomer, greenlover, and the Turtles.


So yesterday you were saying you loved my strategy and wanted to no lynch, now your fosing people who were advocating both of those strategys.

As to me being worried about fish and wanting to dissolve bear, I will explain my logic.
At that point it seemed that most people favoured NL and i also assumed bear wouldn't kill anyone.

N1 1 nk
N2 1 L 1 Nk
N3 1 L 1 Nk

Leaving 7 players of either 3 scum 4 town, 2 scum 5 town or 1 scum 6 town

If it was 3 scum 4 town and scum got fish they would win

If it was 2 scum 5 town, and scum got bear it would be mylo

If its 1 scum 6 town town is fine but the odds are quite low.

I admit my strategyies had flaws but i put that down to newbie errors. I was also just trying to put some suggestions out there.




Im happy for either a NL or a lynch today.

As to who gets investigated and who gets the report I am happy to go with the consensus.

I also agree whoever changes party without consensus should be lynched.

Also there are 4 people lurking badly, greenlover, TMG, mpolo and misnomer.

Total posts

Spoiler:
Snark 8
Jesse 3
Ahammel 4
Finglass 3
Angua 2
webby 3
wam 4 (includes this one)
misnomer 1
adam H 3
TMG 1
Mpolo 1
Greenlover 0


So I think we need to be careful not to lynch the people providing content (even if its wrong) whilst letting people hide and not post anything.
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