xkcd

by **pseudoidiot** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:54 pm UTC

Alternatively, read this, because the advice is amazing.

by **Garm** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:32 pm UTC

There's definitely some good advice in that thread, thanks for sharing (currently DMing two games so I'm happy to read anything like this). Might be a little advanced for people who are just learning the rules.

by **clockworkmonk** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:00 pm UTC

One piece of advice for a new GM that seems to be missing:
It is OK to say yes to ridiculous stuff. Saying yes can lead to wonderful things. By that I don't mean have every plan automatically succeed or allow the players to do any impossible thing. But give them a chance to, let them try.

Conversely, it is OK if the players fail in their goals. Failure is normal, and allows the players to try new things and be ok with failure. Some of the most fun I've had is after the failure of a series of plans, on both sides of the screen.

by **Dauric** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:08 pm UTC

Wild question:

My local game shop has had to close its doors (economic downturn hit them hard after a decade or so of rapid growth) and I'm trying to find online gaming stores to browse "What's New"* in tabletop gaming.

*I know I can go hit sites like WotC's, or GW's respective web-pages to find out about their own stuff, but I'm looking more for general distributors/retailers than a publisher's in-house store so I can "browse the shelves" as it were.

I've found a couple that are decent, but if there's more good ones I'd like to expand my bookmark collection.

Steve Jackson Games (GURPS) online store Warehouse 23, and their e-Book store e23 actually distribute for a lot of different publishers.

DriveThruRPG.com is another one I've stumbled across. Aside from having recent releases from Catalyst Game Labs (Battletech/Shadowrun) and White Wolf, they've got a lot of stuff that's out of print in e-book format, but they tag the PDFs with a watermark of your login and the purchase number (I understand why, but it's still annoying). They've also got a lot of small-publisher supplement books.

I've ordered e-books through both these companies, nothing physical yet, and I haven't had any problems.

Anyone that knows a good online miniatures shop (Again, general purpose distributor, I know I can go to Games Workshop to order GW/Citadel Miniatures products) would be appreciated as well.

by **pseudoidiot** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:12 pm UTC

RPG Geek is a pretty good resource.

by **SecondTalon** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:13 pm UTC

There's also Sci-Fi Genre for RPGs (the link) and miniatures. I've ordered a few things from them (I forget what and a tiny remote controlled tank) and never had a problem.

by **Dauric** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:56 pm UTC

SexyTalon wrote:There's also Sci-Fi Genre for RPGs (the link) and miniatures. I've ordered a few things from them (I forget what and a tiny remote controlled tank) and never had a problem.

... Great, now you've got me looking for tiny RC tanks...

Great links though, thanks.

by **bigglesworth** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:07 pm UTC

And RPG.net forums for detailed discussion/debate/flaming about new releases. It's fun!

by **Garm** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:47 pm UTC

What was your FLGS? Stonebridge Games in Longmont just closed up and I was sad. I've been mooching down to Total Escape in Broomfield. They've got a good selection of minis including some Infinity stuff. If I were young, single, and childless I might buy an army and play there.

by **Dauric** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:09 pm UTC

Garm wrote:What was your FLGS? Stonebridge Games in Longmont just closed up and I was sad. I've been mooching down to Total Escape in Broomfield. They've got a good selection of minis including some Infinity stuff. If I were young, single, and childless I might buy an army and play there.

Attactix down in Aurora. They closed up June of last year while I was in mid-house-buying nonsense. Didn't even know until months later. Only place close by right now (that I'm aware of anyway) is Colpar Hobbies, but they're more of a general-purpose hobby shop. About 10 years ago Colpar even dropped their gaming section because Attactix was doing so well at that point Colpar couldn't compete. Now that Attactix has gone away Colpar has a small gaming section back, but it's a shadow of its former selection and almost entirely Games Workshop minis (which is understandable given how easy it is to get eBooks for most game rules, it's almost not reasonable to stock gaming books any more).

by **Garm** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:36 pm UTC

That's right, I remember hearing that Attactix went under. Sad. I remember playing ASL there back in the way back when. That sucks.

Anyone have any suggestions for Dark Sun miniatures? I'm playing in a game right now and haven't found anything outside of the super old Ral Partha figures. I peeked at the Dark Ages minis but wasn't really inspired.

by **Dauric** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:46 pm UTC

Garm wrote:That's right, I remember hearing that Attactix went under. Sad. I remember playing ASL there back in the way back when. That sucks.

Anyone have any suggestions for Dark Sun miniatures? I'm playing in a game right now and haven't found anything outside of the super old Ral Partha figures. I peeked at the Dark Ages minis but wasn't really inspired.

I don't know if you'e seen Reaper Miniatures. Attactix used to have the better part of a wall dedicated to their Dark Haven Legends line for a very long time, and it is really good quality minis at.. reasonable prices (they used to be a lot cheaper), they say 25mm, but they're really more 35mm's. The DHL line are not really specific to any particular game or worldbook so it may take some digging through their catalog, but odds are you can find some good stuff in there.

by **Garm** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:32 pm UTC

Dauric wrote:
Garm wrote:That's right, I remember hearing that Attactix went under. Sad. I remember playing ASL there back in the way back when. That sucks.

Anyone have any suggestions for Dark Sun miniatures? I'm playing in a game right now and haven't found anything outside of the super old Ral Partha figures. I peeked at the Dark Ages minis but wasn't really inspired.

I don't know if you'e seen Reaper Miniatures. Attactix used to have the better part of a wall dedicated to their Dark Haven Legends line for a very long time, and it is really good quality minis at.. reasonable prices (they used to be a lot cheaper), they say 25mm, but they're really more 35mm's. The DHL line are not really specific to any particular game or worldbook so it may take some digging through their catalog, but odds are you can find some good stuff in there.

I'm familiar with Reaper, in fact I'm currently using a Reaper fig for my Dark Sun wizard. As you can see, he's not exactly the most prepared guy for the desert heat.

by **bigglesworth** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:41 pm UTC

Yeah, he needs to cover his head before he gets sunstroke. Unless he's trained that dragon to sit on his heads and angle its wings to block out the sun from reaching him.

by **Garm** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:55 am UTC

bigglesworth wrote:Yeah, he needs to cover his head before he gets sunstroke. Unless he's trained that dragon to sit on his heads and angle its wings to block out the sun from reaching him.

That's certainly a thought. Too bad there's only one dragon on Athas and it's super evil. If I had a dragon familiar I'd totally train it to be my hat.

by **Chen** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:31 am UTC

Garm wrote:
bigglesworth wrote:Yeah, he needs to cover his head before he gets sunstroke. Unless he's trained that dragon to sit on his heads and angle its wings to block out the sun from reaching him.

That's certainly a thought. Too bad there's only one dragon on Athas and it's super evil. If I had a dragon familiar I'd totally train it to be my hat.

That dragon also doesn't have wings

by **Dauric** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:37 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
Garm wrote:
bigglesworth wrote:Yeah, he needs to cover his head before he gets sunstroke. Unless he's trained that dragon to sit on his heads and angle its wings to block out the sun from reaching him.

That's certainly a thought. Too bad there's only one dragon on Athas and it's super evil. If I had a dragon familiar I'd totally train it to be my hat.

That dragon also doesn't have wings

Yeah it does actually, they'e just folded against his sides.

Of course having pointed to the reaper miniatures site I spent the rest of the say drooling over miniatures...

by **Azrael001** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:30 pm UTC

I've got a bunch of Reaper minis that I've been working on getting painted. Doing so showed me that I actually like painting minis, and has given me enough confidence to start collecting an army for Warhammer 40k. Which has got me looking into ordering more minis from reaper so that I can have a slightly more custom IG army, for basically the same cost. NOVA corp for the win.

And on topic, it entertains me greatly to have created a mage in 4e that does striker level damage in controller area explosions. Pyromancy is best mancy.

by **Garm** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:44 pm UTC

My wizard is very controlly. I thought it would be more fun than just dealing a ton of damage. Plus it fits into the Dark Sun theme better. Big explosions is a pretty obvious use of Arcane Magic. I'm supposed to be hiding my casting so I chose a bunch of spells with the Psychic keyword.

You can see the dragon's wings better in a back view of the figure. I didn't do a great job of highlighting the dragon. This is back from when I was still learning to paint this way (read: not drybrushing).

by **Dauric** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:47 pm UTC

It's a beautiful piece, Kudos on your painting technique!

by **Azrael001** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:34 pm UTC

It is much nicer than the things that I've painted, which are merely passable. As for building my Mage, I did so under the assumption that the best condition that you can give an enemy is dead.

Then again, there are some pretty awesome things that wizards can do that doesn't kill things. Use Arcana for every skill for example. By the time one reaches upper levels, it starts getting pretty silly. In my last game, our wizard used arcana for Arcana, Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Perception, and Stealth at least once an encounter, and could have had Athletics and Endurance. By that time we needed two more levels of difficulty for skill checks just so that we had a chance of failure. Mostly for the wizard, but pretty much everyone had one thing that they couldn't fail under rules as written.

by **Garm** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:09 pm UTC

Dauric wrote:It's a beautiful piece, Kudos on your painting technique!

Thanks!

The problem with painting like this (thin paints) is that the paint rubs off. I vaguely remember sealing this dude but apparently it wasn't enough. There are bits of paints rubbing off on the edges, that's certainly something that never happened with drybrushing.

Having your enemies dead certainly does point to a type of battlefield control.

As I said, I wasn't going for flashy and loud because of roleplaying concerns. If I were, however, I probably would have played a Dragonborn sorcerer. I'm intrigued by the idea of those feats that allow you to recharge your dragonbreath. Not sure we're allowing the race books.

I'm interested to see what's going on with DND Next. From what I've been reading in other forums it looks like they're trying to make intelligent design decisions instead of just make a tabletop MMO. I'm feeling optimistic about it.

by **Dauric** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:32 pm UTC

Garm wrote:
Dauric wrote:It's a beautiful piece, Kudos on your painting technique!

Thanks!

The problem with painting like this (thin paints) is that the paint rubs off. I vaguely remember sealing this dude but apparently it wasn't enough. There are bits of paints rubbing off on the edges, that's certainly something that never happened with drybrushing.

I paint with a mix of wash and drybrush techniques that I picked up out of the Battletech Compendium and have been refining ever since, I never could get the hang of Games Workshop's Drybrush Only technique they show for W40K minis. For the most part I don't have a big problem with durability after a good spray-sealant coat.

I also wash my metal minis in vinegar first. It doesn't just take the release agent off, but it also micro-etches the surface of the metal so glue and primer/paints adhere better to the metal.

I'm interested to see what's going on with DND Next. From what I've been reading in other forums it looks like they're trying to make intelligent design decisions instead of just make a tabletop MMO. I'm feeling optimistic about it.

Never cared for 4'th precisely because it felt like a tabletop computer game, but then again I'm an old enough gamer in computers and tabletop to remember when the Holy Grail of computer games was to match the flexibility of a live GM/DM. To publish a tabletop RPG that aspired to be a computer game always felt terribly perverse. I do like Pathfinder when I get a chance to play it, though my current group is primarily GURPS (as am I for that matter, but I'm not dogmatic about my ruleset preferences).

by **Azrael001** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:36 pm UTC

Dauric wrote:I also wash my metal minis in vinegar first. It doesn't just take the release agent off, but it also micro-etches the surface of the metal so glue and primer/paints adhere better to the metal.

I'm going to have to steal this. How long do you leave them?

My minis also have some issues with chipping, which have been slightly alleviated by coating them in a varnish. Unfortunately all I've got is glossy varnish, which looks silly, but I've recently learned that a wash of delvan mud (a dark brown wash) will hide the gloss, without hiding the detail beneath. In fact, it turns out that delvan mud also fills in seams, and edges, and makes things look more earthy, and is generally awesome.

The builds that I've seen for dragon breathing dragonborn are very silly. And basically turn it into a psudo at-will that does encounter power level damage.

by **Dauric** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:00 pm UTC

Azrael001 wrote:
Dauric wrote:I also wash my metal minis in vinegar first. It doesn't just take the release agent off, but it also micro-etches the surface of the metal so glue and primer/paints adhere better to the metal.
I'm going to have to steal this. How long do you leave them?

At least an hour or two in 50% water and 50% white vinegar solution. Don't use the brown cider-vinegar which is often sold in the same sizes and I think it's actually cheaper than white (white vinegar has the extra steps of filtering). Cider vinegar tends to end up in the release agent clumping and it's a mess to clean it off the figures (it really clings in the crevices, I had to take a toothbrush and toothpicks to clean those out that time). I haven't had any problems leaving it longer than a few hours, one time I left pieces in for a full day and some of them turned black in places, but it didn't damage the shape of the model any. It was actually kind of pretty, but I've not been able to replicate that result to do it intentionally.

I've got the bottom of a 2-liter bottle that I use for vinegar soaking as I can use the "feet" on the bottom to keep the pieces for the figures quasi-organized while they're soaking. Also, I can toss it and just save a 2-liter from the next gaming session when the container starts to turn opaque from release agent residue.

If you've got pieces that are really heavily coated in release agent (Reaper minis are kind of bad about this) you may have to change the vinegar mid-way through, if the vinegar is starting to look especially cloudy it's a sign that there's too much release agent for the vinegar to dissolve. Take the figures out and rinse them off and dump and rinse your soaking-container before you set up the second soaking run or else you're just going to transfer clumps of release agent to the new vinegar and then you've got to do it again and you may end up having to clean out clumps of vinegared release agent from the miniature as though you used Cider vinegar.

Edit:

For varnish I use clear matte spray-varnish you can usually get at art-supply stores. I need to try messing with brush-on gloss varnish after the matte coat, for stuff like a wizard holding a crystal ball, paint the figure, matte sealant, then brush gloss varnish on the crystal ball. I've seen it done I just haven't had the chance to do it myself.

by **Garm** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:21 pm UTC

Huh... I just put mine in soap and water or a thin solution of Simple Green. Never thought to use vinegar, that's tricky.

The primer I use does the job for enabling paints to stick (I use Glass and Tile Medium). As for sealants, I just bought a brush on from Reaper so we'll see how that works. I have Krylon Matte spray that works pretty well. The thing about the spray sealant is that they all have some level of gloss. Even matte is really a silken gloss. Semi-gloss is pretty shiny and High gloss is Gee Willikers! Bright! If you want totally matte finish on your figures then you can use Testor Dullcote or brush on Glass and Tile Medium.

I love GURPS. Bit more work for the DM but still... love it. I don't particularly care for any "modern" flavor of DnD. AD&D was probably the last version I enjoyed and that was a pretty silly system. I've tried out Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay with some success but all my available players are used to DnD so that's what we do. It's too bad, really. Some of the other systems have a lot to offer.

by **Dauric** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:37 pm UTC

Garm wrote:Huh... I just put mine in soap and water or a thin solution of Simple Green. Never thought to use vinegar, that's tricky.

I use Simple Green to remove acrylic paints. Done carefully you can even take paint off plastic miniatures with it and avoid noticeable damage to the underlying plastic.

I love GURPS. Bit more work for the DM but still... love it. I don't particularly care for any "modern" flavor of DnD. AD&D was probably the last version I enjoyed and that was a pretty silly system. I've tried out Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay with some success but all my available players are used to DnD so that's what we do. It's too bad, really. Some of the other systems have a lot to offer.

I'm big in to custom designing my own backgrounds which I find a lot easier in GURPS than most other systems. One I'm working on right now is a "Magic Future that Never Was" where the existence of magic (and especially enchantments) combined with post WWI technology makes all the outlandish stuff on the covers of old Popular Mechanics feasible. Flying cars made from enchanting roadsters with a variation of the "Flying Carpet' spell, holographic communication terminals from typewriters enchanted with Illusion and various Communication and Empathy college spells being piped through telephone wires, stuff like that.

The Roaring 20's are actually kind of an interesting era for games, even in a mundane setting. Modern archaeology is in it's infancy and blatant treasure hunting is still going on, lots of the world is still unexplored including large stretches of North America. You've got prohibition and the Mafia, and it's the time Lovecraft set many of his stories if I feel like going that route, and just when the players are all comfortable with their wealth and power I tweak historical dates in my alternate universe and their investments go bust on Black WheneverIFeelLikeItDay.

by **Enokh** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:43 pm UTC

Aaaand tomorrow, I get to play a Chaos Mage (of Mongoose fame) in a Pathfinder game taking place in Planescape. We're all from different places -- my mage is from Faerun during the Spell Plague. Good times.

by **Dauric** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:14 pm UTC

Garm wrote:I have Krylon Matte spray that works pretty well. The thing about the spray sealant is that they all have some level of gloss. Even matte is really a silken gloss. Semi-gloss is pretty shiny and High gloss is Gee Willikers! Bright! If you want totally matte finish on your figures then you can use Testor Dullcote or brush on Glass and Tile Medium.

The other thing to try if you're looking for a matte spray-on is go with some of the more expensive art sprays. They can be upwards of $10 a can, but if you're painting something like a 40K army and have 3 dozen or more figures to coat in sealant it's completely worth it. The can I'm on right now cost me $8-something and it's somewhat less than a silken gloss. I forget the brand as I'm at work and they frown on me -obviously- wasting my time painting miniatures*, and even more on spraying aerosol sealants in my office.

*but y'know typing on my computer -looking- busy while having target practice shooting male bovines with all of you is all right.

Another thing to try (but it's been ages since I've used it on my miniatures) is something called "Workable Fixatif". It's an art spray that's designed for canvas and paper so that if an artist gets to some point in their work that they want to "save" the current work, they can spray it in Workable Fixatif, and the surface of the spray is supposed to have similar properties as canvas or paper so the artist can continue working on top of the sealant-coat without the paint acting differently. It's not really meant to be a final varnish, but (if it's decent quality) it's designed to have a "rougher" texture than varnishes which reduces it's glossiness.

by **Garm** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:31 pm UTC

Since we're talking about it here, has anyone used the brushes made by Reaper? I've been using Escodas and W&N 7s. A friend wants to get into the hobby and I wanted to make some recommendations that don't involve ordering super expensive brushes off the internet or going down to an art store in Denver (none of the places in Boulder have either brush type I use, and I haven't even found an art store in Longmont).

by **Dauric** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:45 pm UTC

I just use the el-cheapo brush assortment pack you can get at Hobby Lobby or Michaels.

Google Maps tells me you've got one of each in your area.

Also for paints I've been liking the craft paints at Michael's. They're decent sized bottles (about twice the size of the usual miniatures paints) and they're reasonably cheap ($2-$3 a bottle). The consistency of the paints are comparable to what you get from the miniature companies and they work well with wash and drybrush techniques. For someone who's just starting they're ideal to not blow a wad on paints they can experiment with that are at the very least 'good enough'. There's also a shit-ton of colors to choose from.

by **Garm** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:39 pm UTC

I think there's something to be said for using the fancier paints. Delta Ceramcoat and Folk Art paints tend to clump for me and the binder breaks down really quickly when thinned for washes or glazes. The Folk Art Glass and Tile medium, however, is indispensable.

by **Dauric** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:58 pm UTC

Garm wrote:I think there's something to be said for using the fancier paints. Delta Ceramcoat and Folk Art paints tend to clump for me and the binder breaks down really quickly when thinned for washes or glazes. The Folk Art Glass and Tile medium, however, is indispensable.

Hmm. I do't really have those issues, though I don't use the tile and glass medium either. What is it and what do you use it for?

by **Garm** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:25 am UTC

I use the Glass and Tile Medium as a primer. That way I don't have to venture out into the snow when I want to prime a figure. Cut it 1:1 with water and add a drop of black ink. It goes on mostly clear but the ink brings out the detail. Here's a figure that I'm half-assedly painting for my wife to use in our 3.5 game (I'm running "The Caves of Chaos" since it's all new gamers.... so exciting!)

by **Gelsamel** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:00 am UTC

Warlock?

by **Garm** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:54 pm UTC

Gelsamel wrote:Warlock?

The mini? It's a sorceress. No warlocks in 3.5.

I'm also about to run a 4E Dark Sun game. I need some ideas to spice up the combats. I'm thinking of stealing the idea of fighting on a caravan pulled by giant bugs. I was also thinking of drum sand that would might mask tremorsense but bring a bigger, nastier monster or might enhance tremorsense somehow. Fighting on the side of a shifting dune seems like a cinematic sort of a setting but I'm not sure what the effects would be. Anyone have any ideas?

by **SecondTalon** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:59 pm UTC

Garm wrote:
Gelsamel wrote:Warlock?

The mini? It's a sorceress. No warlocks in 3.5.

Er.. Warlocks were a base class in Complete Arcane. They were basically a test for the Powers system of 4.0

by **Enokh** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:12 pm UTC

I always figured Tome of Battle was the true test for 4.0, since it introduced the "ability per encounter" concept. I always called that book 3.75, which confused the hell out of some of my friends.

Anyone sign up for D&D NEXT? It's got Monte Cook. Love me some Monte Cook.

by **Yakk** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:15 pm UTC

Shifting dune: at the end of your turn or at the end of each move action, you slide down the dune. You are pulled 1d4 squares down the dune, people 1 square away from you half that (round down), etc.

Forced movement also triggers this sand slide (it does not trigger itself -- no infinite loops!)

For the fight on the caravan -- a larger force of raiders is following the caravan, so "stopping moving" isn't an option. Maybe the caravan is moving quickly to a fortification nearby -- at 8-10 squares per round. The background "under" the caravan is what moves, rather than the caravan on the map, each turn. The raiders are on mounts of their own, and will do a mixture of firing missile weapons and boarding the caravan in order to take over individual bugs. Some kind of panic or morale check for the bugs, so that they sometimes "break ranks" and move away from the rest of the caravan, or raiders killing the controllers and taking control of the bugs on you.

The PCs might be able to kill a raider and take control of one of their mounts so they can more easily intercept the "riders".

The caravan should be moving quickly after the raiders attack, in order to reach the relative safety of "X" nearby.

by **Dauric** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:24 pm UTC

Garm wrote:
Gelsamel wrote:Warlock?

The mini? It's a sorceress. No warlocks in 3.5.

I'm also about to run a 4E Dark Sun game. I need some ideas to spice up the combats. I'm thinking of stealing the idea of fighting on a caravan pulled by giant bugs. I was also thinking of drum sand that would might mask tremorsense but bring a bigger, nastier monster or might enhance tremorsense somehow. Fighting on the side of a shifting dune seems like a cinematic sort of a setting but I'm not sure what the effects would be. Anyone have any ideas?

Random ideas off the top of my head:

Reduced move for anything that isn't native to the environment (possibly those wagon-pulling bugs might count as "Native" but anyone jumping off the wagon in to the sand is going to have to slog through the loose sand), If the dune is moving may have to spend X amount of move or risk getting stuck (windward side of the dune) as sand piles up around character, or be moved X amount downhill unless the character spends movement to climb (leeward side)

Wind gusts happen on an X of 1DY, which kicks up sand and reduces visibility for 1D4 rounds. (something like every turn there is no wind roll 1D12, on a 5 or less sand is kicked up that incurs penalties of the die roll to see in to or through each square of terrain* for the next 1D4 turns when the winds die down again. on a 6+ on the first roll there's not enough wind to kick up the sand.

*ie: If you roll a 3 then attacks to the adjacent square are made at -3, a bow fired through 3 squares would be at a -9. Attacks on another target in the same square (grappled) would be at no penalty. Adjust size of die and maximum penalty as you see fit.

If there's a sandstorm everyone without face coverings has to make a Con roll or suffer a point of con damage as they inhale airborne sand.

Again, these are just off the top of my head. Use, modify, abuse as you see fit.

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