Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
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Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Whatever he does do, I'm going to be awfully disappointed if he doesn't
Spoiler:
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Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Argency wrote:I'm scared
Me too

Argency wrote:Spoiler:
That's very clever.
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One other question:
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Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
jobriath wrote:Spoiler:
One other question:Spoiler:
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EDIT: grammar.
Gonna be a blank slate, gonna wear a white cape.
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Spoiler:
All Shadow priest spells that deal Fire damage now appear green.
Big freaky cereal boxes of death.
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Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Argency wrote:
What Harry SHOULD do,Spoiler:
That's brilliant.
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Spoiler:
Current blog post: Omniscience can actually be pretty beatable sometimes.
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
WarDaft wrote:Spoiler:
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Argency wrote:Malfoy might even BELIEVE the confession! Harry confessing would also tell Lucius that Harry isn't possessed by the ghost of Voldemort, which is a big deal and a big motivator for Lucius to put Harry in the slammer.[/spoiler]
Spoiler:
... This is the best story.
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Spoiler:
On a completely unrelated note, what's the rough conversion rate between Galleons and Muggle money (Euros/Dollars)? Unfortunately, there's no shared commodity goods to compare, but a ballpark thing of "A sickle buys lunch, a Galleon or two buys textbooks for the year, 50 Galleons buys a very good broomstick, 10000 Galleons is a sizable fortune etc." would be nice.
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
A galleon is about 50 pounds if I remember chapter 4 right.
Belial wrote:Listen, what I'm saying is that he committed a felony with a zoo animal.
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Hmm, my theory:
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Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Spoiler:
All Shadow priest spells that deal Fire damage now appear green.
Big freaky cereal boxes of death.
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
sociotard wrote:Hmm, my theory:Spoiler:
Oooooooh good theory!
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Gonna be a blank slate, gonna wear a white cape.
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Continuing my theory:
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Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Josephine wrote:A galleon is about 50 pounds if I remember chapter 4 right.
Yeah, that's what harry guesses.
Ch 4 Authors note wrote:A/N: As others have noted, the novels seem inconsistent in the apparent purchasing power of a Galleon; I'm picking a consistent value and sticking with it. Five British pounds to the Galleon doesn't square with seven Galleons for a wand and children using hand-me-down wands.
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Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Which is about 80 dollars for a Galleon, 4.50 for a Sickle and 15 cents for a Knut. That seems pretty consistent with character's reactions and payment structures (1.50 dollars for a secret message service, 550 dollars for a wand, 3200 dollars is a huge budget for a prank etc.). Rowling's pricing structure doesn't make too much sense; you'd think Hogwarts would be willing to give 50 dollars in financial aid for a critical instrument used over 7 years.
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Here's a good question... how does Hogwarts function financially? There's never any mention of wizarding tuition fees so far as I can tell... if there were, Hermione would have had trouble getting in. I suppose it's possible that they have low costs, what with magical food generation and such, but they still have a faculty. Dumbeldore's low on supporters, and everything suggests that his supporters aren't from the richer nooks of the wizarding society.
All Shadow priest spells that deal Fire damage now appear green.
Big freaky cereal boxes of death.
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Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Donations, patents, probably support by the ministry?
Considering that the ministry could meddle that deeply with Hogwarts affairs, I'd think that they support Hogwarts and they're discouraged but capable of dictating what happens there.
Considering that the ministry could meddle that deeply with Hogwarts affairs, I'd think that they support Hogwarts and they're discouraged but capable of dictating what happens there.
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:Tyndmyr wrote:Роберт wrote:Sure, but at least they hit the intended target that time.
Well, if you shoot enough people, you're bound to get the right one eventually.
Thats the best description of the USA ever.
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
HHHNNNNNGGGGGGHHHHNNNNNNNGGGHHHH...
Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. That was the best... The most amazing... I haven't fully come to terms with it yet. I'm shaking all over. I have a quiz at uni in two hours and it took me five minutes to get my password right so I could log into the fora to make this post.
Spoiler:
Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. That was the best... The most amazing... I haven't fully come to terms with it yet. I'm shaking all over. I have a quiz at uni in two hours and it took me five minutes to get my password right so I could log into the fora to make this post.
Gonna be a blank slate, gonna wear a white cape.
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Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Best chapter so far
Side note, since the authors notes referred to Ch. 26 I went and re-read it .
this small point jumped out at me:
Spoiler:
Side note, since the authors notes referred to Ch. 26 I went and re-read it .
this small point jumped out at me:
Spoiler:
Give a man a fish, he owes you one fish. Teach a man to fish, you give up your monopoly on fisheries.
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Going back to Halloween, described in Chapter 45:
Does that break the protective bond? Voldemort offered the chance to flee, and Lily was willing to sacrifice herself, hence creating the pact described in the original books. But does Lily's subsequent decision to try killing Voldemort "null" the sacrifice part and thus break the bond (even if she was completely willing to fufill the bond), or is it the thought that counts, so to speak?
And then, at last, Lily Potter's voice shrieked in desperate hate, "Avada ke-"
Does that break the protective bond? Voldemort offered the chance to flee, and Lily was willing to sacrifice herself, hence creating the pact described in the original books. But does Lily's subsequent decision to try killing Voldemort "null" the sacrifice part and thus break the bond (even if she was completely willing to fufill the bond), or is it the thought that counts, so to speak?
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
I think the incident with Lilly Potter is one of the "points of departure" from the canon!Harry Potter novels that Mr Yudkowsky referred to in the introduction to his book. What that means is something I can only guess at, so here goes - I would say that Harry has NO contractual immunity from Tom Riddle by virtue of his mother's "sacrifice".
Since she didn't sacrifice herself, she was just a second or two too slow when she tried to use the Killing Curse on Tom Riddle in defence of her baby son, rather than standing and passively letting Riddle's iteration of it hitting her, which the term "sacrifice" would tend to imply.
(I prefer using the Dark Lord's Muggle name rather than the one he chose for himself. Personal reasons and all that good stuff)
Since she didn't sacrifice herself, she was just a second or two too slow when she tried to use the Killing Curse on Tom Riddle in defence of her baby son, rather than standing and passively letting Riddle's iteration of it hitting her, which the term "sacrifice" would tend to imply.
(I prefer using the Dark Lord's Muggle name rather than the one he chose for himself. Personal reasons and all that good stuff)
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
I'm not so sure. Harry still survived the Killing Curse, and no explanation has even been attempted beyond the reader's prior familiarity with canon - that he was protected by Lily's sacrifice. I don't feel like attempting to fight back would break the sacrifice; that would seem like passive resistance was the only way to win, which is an impression I never got (from canon or MoR).
At the same time, I don't specifically remember if Harry and Quirrelmort have ever actually come in contact with each other (I remember he was wary enough that he floated Q's snake form instead of carrying it), so either he won't destroy Quirrel's body by touching him or they haven't touched. But I would be willing to bet that the protections are significantly less than canon. I like the direction he went with the conflicting magic, so they can't influence each other with magic. Should make for a more interesting inevitable confrontation than "just grab his face until he dies".
At the same time, I don't specifically remember if Harry and Quirrelmort have ever actually come in contact with each other (I remember he was wary enough that he floated Q's snake form instead of carrying it), so either he won't destroy Quirrel's body by touching him or they haven't touched. But I would be willing to bet that the protections are significantly less than canon. I like the direction he went with the conflicting magic, so they can't influence each other with magic. Should make for a more interesting inevitable confrontation than "just grab his face until he dies".
"The only people who think children are carefree are the ones who've forgotten their own childhood." - OSC (who else?)
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Notably, we did NOT see the Killing Curse actually cast in Chapter 43. Although we can infer Harry did not see contradictory evidence beyond that point; even with the excitement of the Patronus Charm 2.0, I rather doubt Harry would forget to mention something like "The Dark Lord didn't cast the Killing Curse".
EDIT: Wait, has Harry actually heard the supposed story of Halloween, or the part about the protective bond of Love?
@Tam Again, the operating question is "Is it the thought that counts?". At some point, she clearly intended to sacrifice herself, despite the choice to live. In canon, I believe those were the only two requirements. But would the attempt at casting Avada Kedrava also be an attempt to live (by killing the aggressor) and hence not a sacrifice?
EDIT: Wait, has Harry actually heard the supposed story of Halloween, or the part about the protective bond of Love?
@Tam Again, the operating question is "Is it the thought that counts?". At some point, she clearly intended to sacrifice herself, despite the choice to live. In canon, I believe those were the only two requirements. But would the attempt at casting Avada Kedrava also be an attempt to live (by killing the aggressor) and hence not a sacrifice?
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Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
She was given the chance to flee. She did not despite her infinitesimally small chance of beating the Dark Lord. That I think was sufficient for her sacrifice.
23111
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
From the prelude to the story that most folks, including me, jumped past at first to get to the bit where Harry and his parents have just received his acceptance letter for Hogwarts:
"Beneath the moonlight glints a tiny fragment of silver, a fraction of a line...
(black robes, falling)
...blood spills out in liters, and someone screams a word."
Whose black robes? Whose blood? And what word?
Those questions have not been answered yet.
But the biggest Chekhov's Gun in the story is simply this. (And it really should be obvious to even the wizarding world of Magical Britain, let alone us Muggles.)
@Alex (hi there, fellow troper, by the way) well, as far as I am concerned, if you stick to the strict definitions of sacrifice available at
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/sacrifice , http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sacrifice and http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sacrifice for example, none of Lilly Potter's actions on facing Tom Riddle even fit. The reason for this is simple, though. She panicked.
Unlike her son, though, she lacked the intent to kill. Yes, I know, she tried to cast the Killing Curse. She was just too slow. She also was not a killer. And if you are trying to cast the Killing Curse, that does make a difference.
"Beneath the moonlight glints a tiny fragment of silver, a fraction of a line...
(black robes, falling)
...blood spills out in liters, and someone screams a word."
Whose black robes? Whose blood? And what word?
Those questions have not been answered yet.
But the biggest Chekhov's Gun in the story is simply this. (And it really should be obvious to even the wizarding world of Magical Britain, let alone us Muggles.)
Spoiler:
@Alex (hi there, fellow troper, by the way) well, as far as I am concerned, if you stick to the strict definitions of sacrifice available at
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/sacrifice , http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sacrifice and http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sacrifice for example, none of Lilly Potter's actions on facing Tom Riddle even fit. The reason for this is simple, though. She panicked.
Unlike her son, though, she lacked the intent to kill. Yes, I know, she tried to cast the Killing Curse. She was just too slow. She also was not a killer. And if you are trying to cast the Killing Curse, that does make a difference.
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
I don't know. The way I read that scene, Voldemort intentionally provoked Lily who then attacked in "desperate hate", rather than in simple panic (although that was probably a component) . But Lily was indeed not a killer, and it's questionable whether even that hate was enough to seriously cast the killing curse. But keep in mind that even Hermione, who normally has the killer instinct of a wet bowl of grapes, will fight viciously when provoked. Lily's intent to kill at that critical moment is the million dollar question. I personally think she did have it, but I'll put a low vote of confidence on that opinion.
That said, I don't think everything went as planned that night. I have a hard time believing Voldemort would intentionally put himself in a relatively powerless spirit form. If he wanted to go undercover, why not Imperius poor Quirrell or other pawns? Obviously it's more convincing evidence if he actually leaves his body, but I think making convincingly fake evidence would be much less of a challenge than exerting influence as spirit who can only possess.
(Hey there! Your writing style looked familiar. If you look closely at my time stamps, you'll see that I'll post a theory on one site, let the discussion brew, post the results of that discussion on the other site, let that discussion brew etc.).
That said, I don't think everything went as planned that night. I have a hard time believing Voldemort would intentionally put himself in a relatively powerless spirit form. If he wanted to go undercover, why not Imperius poor Quirrell or other pawns? Obviously it's more convincing evidence if he actually leaves his body, but I think making convincingly fake evidence would be much less of a challenge than exerting influence as spirit who can only possess.
(Hey there! Your writing style looked familiar. If you look closely at my time stamps, you'll see that I'll post a theory on one site, let the discussion brew, post the results of that discussion on the other site, let that discussion brew etc.).
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Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
small note, the sequence of things named does not fit that of a ritual:
name first that which is to be sacrificed then that which is to be gained.
She named it the other way round. "Not Harry, please no, take me, kill me instead!"
I thought he might have changed the wording from the original to either fit that pattern or to avoid fitting it but it didn't fit in MOR or canon.
So given how hard he works to be consistent there's going to be no sacrifice ritual protection on harry.
name first that which is to be sacrificed then that which is to be gained.
She named it the other way round. "Not Harry, please no, take me, kill me instead!"
I thought he might have changed the wording from the original to either fit that pattern or to avoid fitting it but it didn't fit in MOR or canon.
So given how hard he works to be consistent there's going to be no sacrifice ritual protection on harry.
Give a man a fish, he owes you one fish. Teach a man to fish, you give up your monopoly on fisheries.
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
I am going to stick my neck out further and say that the spell Riddle cast on Harry
They had enough evidence of the
Of course I could be completely, horribly wrong. But it makes more sense to me than just going along with the canon!explanation.
Mind you, only Mister Yudkowsky knows if he has actually done just that as of yet.
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They had enough evidence of the
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Of course I could be completely, horribly wrong. But it makes more sense to me than just going along with the canon!explanation.
Mind you, only Mister Yudkowsky knows if he has actually done just that as of yet.
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Woah, I like the direction this one is going in.
All Shadow priest spells that deal Fire damage now appear green.
Big freaky cereal boxes of death.
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Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
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Code: Select all
enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Spoiler:
All Shadow priest spells that deal Fire damage now appear green.
Big freaky cereal boxes of death.
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Spoiler:
Last edited by Argency on Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:55 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Gonna be a blank slate, gonna wear a white cape.
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Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Argency wrote:Spoiler:
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Code: Select all
enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
Whoa, that's a typo. Edited and thanks - I was up late.
Gonna be a blank slate, gonna wear a white cape.
Re: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
I'm pretty sure that settles it.
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