sourmìlk wrote:I mean, nobody really thinks that it's okay to shoot people because they're black, right? I can't imagine that "let's not shoot people because of their skin color" is such a contentious issue that it really needs to be discussed that much.
If that were the case this thread wouldn't exist, would it?
Nordic Einar wrote:
nitePhyyre wrote:The average human does not want to commit murder. Murder isn't something you have to have to teach people not to do. It isn't a question maturity. It isn't something you grow out of. I'm sorry to break it to you, but, yes, these people are monsters. If you are carrying a gun in hopes to use it, You. Are. A. Monster.
Caveats: There is a difference between "I want to kill some terrorists" and "I want to kill some terrorists to defend my home, family and country."
If you friend "matured" he may no longer be a dangerous monster, but one none the less.
Monster really isn't the right word, I'm just going with the terminology already in the thread.
This quote, in particular discussing how "not wanting to murder isn't something you grow out of" or "Someone who may have been capable of murder in the past, but no longer is, is still a monster" kind of implies that People Who Are Gonna Murder Have Some Inherent Flaw That Makes Them Murder.
It's an incredibly privileged view point. I know lots of folks back where I grew up who, under the right circumstances, would've killed someone if it meant their family would survive a little longer. Their economic situation has improved and they no longer are forced to participate in a life of crime to survive, drastically decreasing the likelihood they'll ever be in a situation where taking a life is necessary to feed their family.
They're not monsters. They're human beings, and making them out to be "monsters" means "normal" people don't do monstrous things. It's absolutely untrue, and Milgrim's experiments as well as the Stanford Prison Experiment both demonstrate this extremely well. Also, y'know, countless atrocities committed across the ages by human beings who may as well have been your neighbor.
Thank you for this. Most people with a good roof over their heads forget how hard it is for the "underclass" to get by.
"There's hunger in the street that is hard to defeat
Many steal for sport, but more steal to eat
There is universal law, whether rich or poor
Some say life's a game, to more, life is war"
Mos Def - "Got"
“Into this wild-beast tangle these men had been born without their consent, they had taken part in it because they could not help it; that they were in jail was no disgrace to them, for the game had never been fair, the dice were loaded. They were swindlers and thieves of pennies and dimes, and they had been trapped and put out of the way by the swindlers and thieves of millions of dollars.”
― Upton Sinclair, The Jungle
Now someone call me a bleeding heart.
But seriously, this is again why this case has become national, Trayvon's parents were not living in a bad neighborhood and they've had to deal with the injustices that are typical of living in a bad neighborhood, and yes that injustice is more typical in poor neighborhoods is a problem in itself but it definitely shouldn't follow a family who makes it out of that situation because of the color of their skin.
@ lutz: I don't think you'll find anyone trying to justify the Black Panther's statement, they're about as fringe as the KKK, though yeah, they get a little more slack and that's unfortunate in and of itself.