1034: "Share Buttons"

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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby philsov » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:19 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:I don't understand how anyone can hate something that is optional and ignorable, I understand hating pop-up ads for example, although in this day and age it's your own fault if you still get pop-up ads, but share buttons, if you don't like them , don't use them, I'm not sure how dislike can escalate to hate in that kind of circumstance.


Honestly, it looks to me like pure elitism. Share buttons are, in a way, a constant reminder that "regular people" also use the Internet.


But share buttons with visible counters? I understand the allure of having an easy-click-to-share function, from the stance of both the reader and website. I fail to see the benefit of knowing, as a reader, that 17000 people have shared this article on facebook. I understand it hurts my indie cred some to have finally read these old news, and if anything it'll make me less likely to share it since odds are it's already made rounds. If counters are hidden wouldn't that ensure perpetual sharing and more traffic?
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby SerMufasa » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:31 pm UTC

AvatarIII wrote:That's kind of the point of the social networking phenomenomenon though, to make the vast and impersonal internet, social, and for those who are computer illiterate, easy, and accessible.
I can understand being slightly annoyed by the rising levels of share buttons, but hate them? perhaps I'm just not a hateful enough person!


It sounds counter-intuitive, but I think the vast number of share button "haters" want social networking contained within its own sphere.

EDIT: Then, of course, there are people who simply don't give a shit if you read an article about a kitten being rescued
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby . . » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:51 pm UTC

tetromino wrote:
willpellmn wrote:It'd be helpful if someone could translate a little for the benefit of those who aren't quite as plugged in to "Internet culture". I've heard of all four sites, but I don't use them except for following two Twitterers and an occasional G+ article by one of them, and I couldn't even begin to guess at the culture that prevails on them, so I have no idea what the joke here (besides the obvious Boycott Facebook one). Why is #2 Reddit while #4 is G+ (and only barely that)? I can't guess because I don't know the sites from personal experience.

A verbose explanation of the joke for those unfamiliar with the subject or lacking in humor:

Stand-up comedy is an entertainment genre where a comedian performs standing on stage before a live audience.
The Christian right refers to the right-wing, religious fraction of the US political spectrum.
Wikipedia is a user-created online encyclopedia. Due to policies that oppose censorship and require controversial statements to be supported by mainstream, academically respected sources, it is disliked by some people on the right side of the US political spectrum.
RealDolls are expensive full-sized sex dolls. RealDoll buyers are seen as men who have failed to establish a socially acceptable relationship with a live human woman, and are therefore considered to be acceptable targets for jokes.
Custom ROM refers to firmware for an electronic device that has been modified, typically by hobbyists without the device manufacturer's help or permission. Since installing third-party firmware is a often a poorly automated and potentially risky process, people interested in custom ROMs tend to be stereotyped as nerds.

Twitter is a microblogging site that appears to be particular popular in the media and entertainment industries.
Reddit is a social news site with a userbase that is largely left-of-center politically and includes a large and unexpectedly vocal group of militant atheists.
Facebook is, by a large margin, the world's most popular social network. A non-negligible fraction of its users are dissatisfied with the site and its frequent privacy lapses, but cannot bring themselves to leave because all their friends are using it.
Google+ is Google's failing attempt to compete with Facebook; for the moment, the active part of its userbase is largely limited to nerds and hardcore Facebook haters.

All four social sites provide sharing buttons that third-party websites can stick into their pages. Clicking such a button allows users to share a link to the article via the social network in question; when an article is shared, a counter displayed on the button is incremented. Since web designers typically arrange such buttons in a single row or group, a visitor can see at a glance how popular a particular article is with users of different social sites.

The comic portrays the sharing button rows that might be displayed for several different articles on third-party sites, highlighting the stereotypical foibles of the userbases of the four social sites.


Complete and utter win of a post. Props.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby Puppyclaws » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:08 pm UTC

SerMufasa wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:That's kind of the point of the social networking phenomenomenon though, to make the vast and impersonal internet, social, and for those who are computer illiterate, easy, and accessible.
I can understand being slightly annoyed by the rising levels of share buttons, but hate them? perhaps I'm just not a hateful enough person!


It sounds counter-intuitive, but I think the vast number of share button "haters" want social networking contained within its own sphere.

EDIT: Then, of course, there are people who simply don't give a shit if you read an article about a kitten being rescued


Some mix of those two things. I really don't like going to an article and seeing a picture of my facebook icon and a comment box for me to post it to facebook. Creeps me out a bit. The internet was fine BEFORE, when if something was that important I could just copy/paste the link into facebook, and if I couldn't be bothered then I guess it wasn't that important after all.

This expansion of facebook has also caused me to learn that my "friends" apparently love to find things on the net to be upset about, and then use them as springboards to spout hateful commentary. I'd rather see Farmville posts, even, than what it's become today.

This comic needs more dinosaurs. Maybe then I would like it.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby philsov » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:30 pm UTC

Dinosaurs?!?

Data from recent Dinosaur Comics

Image

- Mentions of hard drugs, opera, and batman make a strip popular across all functions.
- Going Sagan mode turns away Facebook users.
- Being witty/punny gets you tweets
- Being baseline gets you... about 150 FB likes and 20 G+/tweets
- I can't tell what about Homemade Comics made it so oddly popular with stumbleupon. Meh.
- Reddit as a whole does not like awesome Dinosaurs.
Last edited by philsov on Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:54 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby JimsMaher » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:36 pm UTC

Where is this fabled "post to achieve perfect balance" ?
Context over content.

I'm not even sure how share buttons work, other than clicking to increment the appropriate tally box
Imagine a "How Do They Do It?" episode containing a "Sharing" segment ... explain it like that, please.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby busyba » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:49 pm UTC

SpringLoaded12 wrote:
SirMustapha wrote:I don't know what bothers me the most: the fact that the comic looks pretty much like a non-joke to me, or that hating share buttons is The New Thing.

"The New Thing"? According to who?


Whom
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby Daggertrout » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:08 pm UTC

Realdolls don't need firmware, or at least that kind of firmware.



Uhhh, or so my friend says. >_>;
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:07 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:I don't understand how anyone can hate something that is optional and ignorable, I understand hating pop-up ads for example, although in this day and age it's your own fault if you still get pop-up ads, but share buttons, if you don't like them , don't use them, I'm not sure how dislike can escalate to hate in that kind of circumstance.


Honestly, it looks to me like pure elitism. Share buttons are, in a way, a constant reminder that "regular people" also use the Internet.

The same regular people who need to be segregated into FB et al. I don't like them because they demand regulation and order to profane the beautiful chaos that it the tubes.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby exadyne » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:16 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:Honestly, it looks to me like pure elitism. Share buttons are, in a way, a constant reminder that "regular people" also use the Internet.

Yes because calling people regular people in quotes doesn't have a certain pot and kettle situation when it comes to elitism.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby Haylo » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:10 pm UTC

Yoduh wrote:for being xkcd users, sure are a lot of internet noobs here :? .

It's not so much that I'm an internet noob, by the time you get to my age, you've pretty much run out of things to be a noob at, it's just that I have more interesting things to do with the internet than participate in multiple social network sites.

So thanks for the explanations folks - while the humour was largely lost on me, at least my curiosity has been satisfied. 8)
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby Draco18s » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:50 pm UTC

AvatarIII wrote:
SerMufasa wrote:PS: The Google+ joke is that very few people use it compared to the other options


and that those people are rich perverts?


Actually, the highest G+ count is on the "Boycott Facebook" counter.
I think the RealDoll people are also not on Facebook as a "at least then Facebook can't see my private life" dealy, rather than "rich" or necessarily "perverts."
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby SirMustapha » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:38 pm UTC

exadyne wrote:
SirMustapha wrote:Honestly, it looks to me like pure elitism. Share buttons are, in a way, a constant reminder that "regular people" also use the Internet.

Yes because calling people regular people in quotes doesn't have a certain pot and kettle situation when it comes to elitism.


I don't know. I consider myself part of the "regular people".
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby ethereal_fire » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:14 pm UTC

tetromino wrote:
willpellmn wrote:It'd be helpful if someone could translate a little for the benefit of those who aren't quite as plugged in to "Internet culture". I've heard of all four sites, but I don't use them except for following two Twitterers and an occasional G+ article by one of them, and I couldn't even begin to guess at the culture that prevails on them, so I have no idea what the joke here (besides the obvious Boycott Facebook one). Why is #2 Reddit while #4 is G+ (and only barely that)? I can't guess because I don't know the sites from personal experience.

A verbose explanation of the joke for those unfamiliar with the subject or lacking in humor:

Stand-up comedy is an entertainment genre where a comedian performs standing on stage before a live audience.
The Christian right refers to the right-wing, religious fraction of the US political spectrum.
Wikipedia is a user-created online encyclopedia. Due to policies that oppose censorship and require controversial statements to be supported by mainstream, academically respected sources, it is disliked by some people on the right side of the US political spectrum.
RealDolls are expensive full-sized sex dolls. RealDoll buyers are seen as men who have failed to establish a socially acceptable relationship with a live human woman, and are therefore considered to be acceptable targets for jokes.
Custom ROM refers to firmware for an electronic device that has been modified, typically by hobbyists without the device manufacturer's help or permission. Since installing third-party firmware is a often a poorly automated and potentially risky process, people interested in custom ROMs tend to be stereotyped as nerds.

Twitter is a microblogging site that appears to be particular popular in the media and entertainment industries.
Reddit is a social news site with a userbase that is largely left-of-center politically and includes a large and unexpectedly vocal group of militant atheists.
Facebook is, by a large margin, the world's most popular social network. A non-negligible fraction of its users are dissatisfied with the site and its frequent privacy lapses, but cannot bring themselves to leave because all their friends are using it.
Google+ is Google's failing attempt to compete with Facebook; for the moment, the active part of its userbase is largely limited to nerds and hardcore Facebook haters.

All four social sites provide sharing buttons that third-party websites can stick into their pages. Clicking such a button allows users to share a link to the article via the social network in question; when an article is shared, a counter displayed on the button is incremented. Since web designers typically arrange such buttons in a single row or group, a visitor can see at a glance how popular a particular article is with users of different social sites.

The comic portrays the sharing button rows that might be displayed for several different articles on third-party sites, highlighting the stereotypical foibles of the userbases of the four social sites.


Very nice explanation. The only thing you didn't explain was the mouse-over text. Which unfortunately was what I was hoping there were be some comments on in here. Otherwise, very good summary.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby ethereal_fire » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:17 pm UTC

Hobin wrote:There's a typo in the alt-text.

<.<

>.>

...Yes, I registered purely to point that out.



:)


AvatarIII wrote:So many TSA acronyms to choose from, so little time!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSA


For some reason when I read those my brain put Assassination in place of Association. Made some of the acronyms a little startling.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby muntoo » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:13 am UTC

busyba wrote:
SpringLoaded12 wrote:"The New Thing"? According to who?


Whom


.
Last edited by muntoo on Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:28 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby muntoo » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:22 am UTC

Poll.

Which 'Social Media' platform(s) do you use most?

(Sorry for the attention grab.)
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby freded21 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:51 am UTC

tetromino wrote:A verbose explanation of the joke for those unfamiliar with the subject or lacking in humor:

Stand-up comedy is an entertainment genre where a comedian performs standing on stage before a live audience.
The Christian right refers to the right-wing, religious fraction of the US political spectrum.
Wikipedia is a user-created online encyclopedia. Due to policies that oppose censorship and require controversial statements to be supported by mainstream, academically respected sources, it is disliked by some people on the right side of the US political spectrum.
RealDolls are expensive full-sized sex dolls. RealDoll buyers are seen as men who have failed to establish a socially acceptable relationship with a live human woman, and are therefore considered to be acceptable targets for jokes.
Custom ROM refers to firmware for an electronic device that has been modified, typically by hobbyists without the device manufacturer's help or permission. Since installing third-party firmware is a often a poorly automated and potentially risky process, people interested in custom ROMs tend to be stereotyped as nerds.

Twitter is a microblogging site that appears to be particular popular in the media and entertainment industries.
Reddit is a social news site with a userbase that is largely left-of-center politically and includes a large and unexpectedly vocal group of militant atheists.
Facebook is, by a large margin, the world's most popular social network. A non-negligible fraction of its users are dissatisfied with the site and its frequent privacy lapses, but cannot bring themselves to leave because all their friends are using it.
Google+ is Google's failing attempt to compete with Facebook; for the moment, the active part of its userbase is largely limited to nerds and hardcore Facebook haters.

All four social sites provide sharing buttons that third-party websites can stick into their pages. Clicking such a button allows users to share a link to the article via the social network in question; when an article is shared, a counter displayed on the button is incremented. Since web designers typically arrange such buttons in a single row or group, a visitor can see at a glance how popular a particular article is with users of different social sites.

The comic portrays the sharing button rows that might be displayed for several different articles on third-party sites, highlighting the stereotypical foibles of the userbases of the four social sites.

Deconstruction at its finest.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby StClair » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:57 am UTC

SirMustapha wrote:I don't know. I consider myself part of the "regular people".

You don't fool me. You're really a pink cartoon rabbit.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby da Doctah » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:55 am UTC

SpringLoaded12 wrote:
SirMustapha wrote:I don't know what bothers me the most: the fact that the comic looks pretty much like a non-joke to me, or that hating share buttons is The New Thing.

"The New Thing"? According to who?

It's new to me. I'm still stuck on hating tag clouds.

Seriously, what is the point of those things, if not to fill up space?
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby J Thomas » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:06 pm UTC

da Doctah wrote:
SpringLoaded12 wrote:
SirMustapha wrote:I don't know what bothers me the most: the fact that the comic looks pretty much like a non-joke to me, or that hating share buttons is The New Thing.

"The New Thing"? According to who?

It's new to me. I'm still stuck on hating tag clouds.

Seriously, what is the point of those things, if not to fill up space?


Try an example. Let's say you want pornography. Particularly, you want pictures of women smiling, women who look happy. So you find a site that looked promising from your search engine, and they have a tag cloud. You see a couple of great big words in the middle, GAY RAPE. a couple of slightly smaller words to the side, ANAL BDSM. Probably you're in the wrong place. But you look closer and you see "happy" in little tiny letters in one corner, and "smile" in little tiny letters in another corner. If you click on those you might possibly find what you want even though most of the site fails for you. Maybe you'll get smiling gay bdsm instead, but it's your best chance on this site.

Tag clouds give you some vague idea what to expect, and a crude way to zero in on what you want. I'd prefer they have a button you can choose to get a tag cloud, because they aren't that useful for me most of the time and I'd rather not lose the space. But if I had to click a button to see them I'd probably use them even less.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby mardytam » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:01 pm UTC

People don't like share buttons because it allows networks to track you. For example, if you're logged into gmail and then visit a site with a g+ share button (or google analytics) embedded, google can -- in principle -- record your visit to that page without you interacting with the share button or having used google search to find it. Ditto for being logged into facebook, twitter, whatever. I consider that to be invasive tracking so I use extensions to block those buttons/scripts.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby SirMustapha » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:54 pm UTC

StClair wrote:
SirMustapha wrote:I don't know. I consider myself part of the "regular people".

You don't fool me. You're really a pink cartoon rabbit.


Purple kangaroo, man.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby ShuRugal » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:11 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
exadyne wrote:
SirMustapha wrote:Honestly, it looks to me like pure elitism. Share buttons are, in a way, a constant reminder that "regular people" also use the Internet.

Yes because calling people regular people in quotes doesn't have a certain pot and kettle situation when it comes to elitism.


I don't know. I consider myself part of the "regular people".



good, you understood the point then. being "regular" can be elitism just as much as being "not regular" can, if you go out of your way to make a point about the "regular" bit.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby Kaelin » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:21 pm UTC

^ For some reason, over the course of this particular thread of thought, I ended up thinking of politicians, in terms of how they label themselves and the people whose interests they ostensibly want to serve.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby SirMustapha » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:11 pm UTC

ShuRugal wrote:good, you understood the point then. being "regular" can be elitism just as much as being "not regular" can, if you go out of your way to make a point about the "regular" bit.


Okay, I confess, I have no freaking idea what you're trying to say. And I don't really care. So there.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby ctristan » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:13 pm UTC

I think the hatred over share buttons is more a symptom of a larger issue with most social networks in general, that they just consider everyone you add as a friend, whether you consider them a friend or not. When you have hundreds of "friends" then yes the spam can be overwhelming. If a friend recommends a movie then I know that we share similar interests and I will probably enjoy it, but if a coworker or family member recommends a movie then I'll most likely ignore it unless I really know them or already know I like the movie, and it's the same thing with people recommending articles or videos. Someone reads an article about cars that they really like and decides to share it with his car buddies on Facebook, and now everyone he has added on Facebook has to see the post whether they care about cars at all or not.

At least with Google+ I can choose to selectively share or filter posts by group so I can choose who I share what with, so that when I share an article about a new game being announced I don't bother my family members who really couldn't care at all, and other people don't include me when talking about cars or houses. With Facebook and Twitter I can only broadcast everything to everyone, so of course most of the posts are going to be spam because they only interest a dozen people out of the several dozen or hundreds of people on their "friends" list. My friends and acquaintances don't care about vacation pictures, my family doesn't care about video games, none of them care about Lojban, so why should I be cluttering up their post stream with things they don't want?
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby J Thomas » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:53 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
ShuRugal wrote:good, you understood the point then. being "regular" can be elitism just as much as being "not regular" can, if you go out of your way to make a point about the "regular" bit.


Okay, I confess, I have no freaking idea what you're trying to say. And I don't really care. So there.


I guess I'll explain in case there's somebody else who didn't get it.

When you accuse nerds of being elitist, claiming that you are a "regular people" yourself, you are engaging in reverse elitism. For some time now you have talked as if your ethnicity is better than nerd ethnicity. I find it vaguely irritating that you continue to do this on a nerd forum. Like, we just had a thread where people tried to figure out how to express a bumper sticker in terms of formal logic. And when they figured out that it was impossible then they spent even more bandwidth trying to figure out on the spot how to extend formal logic to let them do it.

Now, most ethnicities have a faith, practically a membership requirement, that they are superior. Corvette owners feel superior to owners of lesser cars. Jewish people feel superior to goys, who tend to feel superior right back. Cavers feel superior to locals and vandals. EEs feel superior to mechanical engineers and physicists, who each feel superior too. Aspergers feel superior to neurotypicals, who it goes without saying return it in spades.

So it's only natural that nerds would feel superior and that you, as a regular person would feel superior to nerds. But you make a point of coming onto a nerd forum and telling them that they aren't superior and their jokes aren't funny.

Wouldn't you be more comfortable among your own kind?
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby toadpipe » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:11 pm UTC

J Thomas wrote:I guess I'll explain in case there's somebody else who didn't get it.

When you accuse nerds of being elitist, claiming that you are a "regular people" yourself, you are engaging in reverse elitism. For some time now you have talked as if your ethnicity is better than nerd ethnicity. I find it vaguely irritating that you continue...


Wait, did you just refer to nerds as an ethnic group?

That is the most hilarious thing I've ever read.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby The Moomin » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:35 pm UTC

So, it turns out different people like different things.

Who'd have thunk it?
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby Puppyclaws » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:08 pm UTC

J Thomas wrote:So it's only natural that nerds would feel superior and that you, as a regular person would feel superior to nerds. But you make a point of coming onto a nerd forum and telling them that they aren't superior and their jokes aren't funny.


I like that your categories here are "nerds" and "regular people." That's just...adorable? Let's go with adorable. I understand that you were sort of handed these categories by the discussion, but still I really am in love with this.

Also my understanding, from reading a lot of Sir Mustapha in the past, is that he comes here largely in response to a confusion you are making. Randall's jokes are not nerd jokes. Some subset of nerds just sort of assume that to be a fact, and make a point of spreading XKCD everywhere to the point that somebody living in that culture at all is faced with it all the time. Similarly, although nerds populate the XKCD forums, the XKCD forums are not nerd forums.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby J Thomas » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:14 pm UTC

toadpipe wrote:
J Thomas wrote:I guess I'll explain in case there's somebody else who didn't get it.

When you accuse nerds of being elitist, claiming that you are a "regular people" yourself, you are engaging in reverse elitism. For some time now you have talked as if your ethnicity is better than nerd ethnicity. I find it vaguely irritating that you continue...


Wait, did you just refer to nerds as an ethnic group?

That is the most hilarious thing I've ever read.


How are nerds not a collection of ethnic groups? The name isn't exactly explicit. There are people who like D&D who have nothing in common with others who are deep into computer geekery.

But if nerds aren't an ethnic group, how do you decide what is? Do they have to maintain stable traditions for 83 years before they can get the label?
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby Sb0070 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:29 pm UTC

I have a question regarding nerds: what did they do before the internet was invented?

(I'm a net nerd myself)
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby toadpipe » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:58 pm UTC

J Thomas wrote:
toadpipe wrote:
J Thomas wrote:I guess I'll explain in case there's somebody else who didn't get it.

When you accuse nerds of being elitist, claiming that you are a "regular people" yourself, you are engaging in reverse elitism. For some time now you have talked as if your ethnicity is better than nerd ethnicity. I find it vaguely irritating that you continue...


Wait, did you just refer to nerds as an ethnic group?

That is the most hilarious thing I've ever read.


How are nerds not a collection of ethnic groups? The name isn't exactly explicit. There are people who like D&D who have nothing in common with others who are deep into computer geekery.

But if nerds aren't an ethnic group, how do you decide what is? Do they have to maintain stable traditions for 83 years before they can get the label?


First, you don't seem to know what the term ethnic group means, or understand why it is applied. I hate linking to Wikipedia, but:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_group

The term you are actually looking for is Subculture:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subculture

Examples, Japanese is an ethnic group, Goth is a subculture.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby J Thomas » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:02 am UTC

toadpipe wrote:
J Thomas wrote:
toadpipe wrote:
J Thomas wrote:I guess I'll explain in case there's somebody else who didn't get it.

When you accuse nerds of being elitist, claiming that you are a "regular people" yourself, you are engaging in reverse elitism. For some time now you have talked as if your ethnicity is better than nerd ethnicity. I find it vaguely irritating that you continue...


Wait, did you just refer to nerds as an ethnic group?

That is the most hilarious thing I've ever read.


How are nerds not a collection of ethnic groups? The name isn't exactly explicit. There are people who like D&D who have nothing in common with others who are deep into computer geekery.

But if nerds aren't an ethnic group, how do you decide what is? Do they have to maintain stable traditions for 83 years before they can get the label?


First, you don't seem to know what the term ethnic group means, or understand why it is applied. I hate linking to Wikipedia, but:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_group


An ethnic group (or ethnicity) is a group of people whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage, often consisting of a common language, a common culture (often including a shared religion) and/or an ideology that stresses common ancestry or endogamy.


Members identify with each other. Check. Through a common heritage, mostly check. Often consisting of a common language (mostly not Klingon or leetspeek but there's often a common jargon) a common culture (a lot of overlap but nerds are kind of diverse) (often including a shared religion) (my wife says nerds believe in science, but I think a fair number do not) and/or an ideology that stresses common ancestry or endogamy (no).

The part that's missing is the belief in endogamy, which is not required. I don't think you're right to say the term does not fit.

The term you are actually looking for is Subculture:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subculture


Yes, I think that fits even better.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby Tormuse » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:17 am UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
exadyne wrote:
SirMustapha wrote:Honestly, it looks to me like pure elitism. Share buttons are, in a way, a constant reminder that "regular people" also use the Internet.

Yes because calling people regular people in quotes doesn't have a certain pot and kettle situation when it comes to elitism.


I don't know. I consider myself part of the "regular people".


Now, I'm not sure what your position is. I've observed that, on the forums, you make a regular habit of pointing out flaws in the comics and arguing against people who like them. You seem to be holding your opinions as superior to those of the masses that like the comics. Doesn't that put you in the category of the "elitist people" and not the "regular people?" Or am I misunderstanding your definition of "regular people?"
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby JCM » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:20 am UTC

How come I feel like a nerd every time I can relate to one of these comics?
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby gormster » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:44 am UTC

glasnt wrote:I stumbled over /dev/sigh/ the other day, and I hadn't noticed the share button before (from AddThis)

It gives the option of 11 different options (favourite, email), and then lets you expand the other 317 options for sharing the item.

O_O


That's AddThis. I'm semi-convinced that, like the White Pages and street directories, there are completely fake entries in their list of 317 to catch copyright infringers.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby J Thomas » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:58 am UTC

Puppyclaws wrote:....

Also my understanding, from reading a lot of Sir Mustapha in the past, is that he comes here largely in response to a confusion you are making. Randall's jokes are not nerd jokes. Some subset of nerds just sort of assume that to be a fact, and make a point of spreading XKCD everywhere to the point that somebody living in that culture at all is faced with it all the time. Similarly, although nerds populate the XKCD forums, the XKCD forums are not nerd forums.


These are all fuzzy categories, with a lot of leeway for interpretation.

I remember a similar discussion about science fiction. People argued about which literature was science fiction and which was not. Damon Knight arbited that science fiction is what science fiction fans read.

Randall's jokes are what nerds laugh at. That makes them nerd jokes. Many of them would have wider appeal if others saw them.
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Re: 1034: "Share Buttons"

Postby SirMustapha » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:33 pm UTC

J Thomas wrote:When you accuse nerds of being elitist, claiming that you are a "regular people" yourself, you are engaging in reverse elitism. For some time now you have talked as if your ethnicity is better than nerd ethnicity. I find it vaguely irritating that you continue to do this on a nerd forum.


No, I don't think my "ethnicity" (*snicker*) is "better" than "nerd ethnicity" (*snicker"). What I'm complaining about here is a certain group of nerds who can't get over the fact that the Internet is not made for them, at least not anymore. I'm not bothered by nerds and I don't think I'm "superior" to them, but I am definitely against nerds who think the Internet should still be exclusive to nerds.

Do I think I'm "superior" to them? Maybe. But if we boil down every single argument and/or opinion to "you feel superior to them", we won't get anywhere. I mean, "you are elitist because you think you're superior to elitists" is a completely pointless, counter-intuitive argument, an useless dead-end.

J Thomas wrote:Wouldn't you be more comfortable among your own kind?


Maybe, but I don't like staying still and snug inside my comfort zone. I like to break out of it sometimes, you know.

Tormuse wrote:I've observed that, on the forums, you make a regular habit of pointing out flaws in the comics and arguing against people who like them. You seem to be holding your opinions as superior to those of the masses that like the comics. Doesn't that put you in the category of the "elitist people" and not the "regular people?"


If "having an opinion" or "expressing an opinion" is the same as "holding your opinions as superior", then hell, every human being does that constantly. I only think my opinion as "superior" in the sense that I believe in it more than I believe in the others; otherwise, I wouldn't have that opinion in the first place!

Hating social networks for thinking their harmful or evil is one thing. But the kind of "hate against sharing buttons" that's going on around here seems to me to be a different thing entirely.

Puppyclaws wrote:Also my understanding, from reading a lot of Sir Mustapha in the past, is that he comes here largely in response to a confusion you are making. Randall's jokes are not nerd jokes. Some subset of nerds just sort of assume that to be a fact, and make a point of spreading XKCD everywhere to the point that somebody living in that culture at all is faced with it all the time. Similarly, although nerds populate the XKCD forums, the XKCD forums are not nerd forums.


I think you just hit the nail right on the head. In fact, I think that's exactly what I've been trying to say all this time: reading/liking xkcd is not synonymous with being a nerd or vice versa.

The funny thing is, a lot of nerds get very annoyed by the fact that people in general make a lot of assumptions about you when they see you writing computer code. Some people assume that "you can fix my Internet"; but some other people assume that "Oh me yarm YOU LOVE XKCD TOO". Both assumptions are equally braindead and wrong.
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