whateveries wrote:hrrmm, no, the amphetamines vs brocolli debate is a completely different one. Look from my understanding of the 'sophie' standpoint simplified ( simplification is a dangerous habit of mine, I am afraid) is this
The difference in reletive danger of consuming
a) fresh fruit & vegetables
b) processed fats and refined sugars.
is negligible healthwise. due to the toxins present in f&v effectively negating any health benefit.
I will present an opposing viewpoint. I don't have a proof.
Suppose that there are a collection of undiscovered vitamins. A handful of the most important vitamins have been discovered -- poor people with extremely unhealthy diets (because they were too poor to eat anything but corn, or anything but rice, etc) got diseases which could be cured by specific vitamins. Suppose there are others that are more subtle. When you don't get enough of one of them over a period of years your joints start to disintegrate, say. Another leads to arterial problems. A third gives you premature cataracts. Etc.
Suppose further that as you age, your ability to make a collection of vitamins for yourself starts to shut down. Maybe old people need vitamins that young people don't need.
I consider both of these plausible but not at all proven.
If this is true, what can you do? You will suffer if you just eat sugar, starch, fat, and well-done meat. Your best bet is to eat small quantities of a big variety of foods that tradition says are healthy. And then if you aren't rich you can eat lots of some staple food to provide calories.
If some of those foods contain small amounts of toxins along with small amounts of undiscovered vitamins, you can hope that small amounts of those toxins aren't as important as small amounts of vitamins. You aren't getting a lot of each poison. You won't get a whole lot of fruit and vegetable poisons unless you're rich enough to eat a whole lot of them.
One alternative is to get your vitamins etc from animal flesh. If an animal needs all the same vitamins you do, it probably *has* those vitamins unless it's somehow unhealthy. So if you eat the animal, and if you are good at extracting those vitamins, you will probably be as healthy as it was. However, you really need to eat the whole animal. Brain, pancreas, liver, intestines, connective tissue, marrow, bone, etc. And there may be problems if the animal gets too much cooking, or if you wait too long to eat it. Vitamins could be destroyed by heat or by normal enzymatic functions after death. You'd do best to eat the animal alive. But when you do that you eat the animals parasites, some of which are good at embedding themselves into your intestines and eating your food along with your blood, while others burrow through your flesh looking for a good place to camp out. Some of them can multiply inside you, it doesn't help much to only get small numbers of them. So I think it's better to cook your animal flesh, or find some other way to make it thoroughly dead. Maybe eat some cooked, and some gamma-irradiated until it's completely sterile.
People probably first cooked meat to make it decay slower and also removing water made it easier to carry. They pretty likely started cooking vegetables to remove toxins. It probably dates back to the first cooking pots. You boil the food, then you throw away the water and boil it again. After a few extractions most of the poison is gone and what's left may have some starches etc that are worth eating. Also they aren't as crunchy. Some of our crops may have been bred to be less toxic, after we ate them for many generations removing the toxins.
So anyway, with some lit-searching I could point you to references that make my ideas seem kind of plausible, but I don't have anything like a proof for much of it. I say, eat a little of lots of fruits and vegetables but don't eat a lot of any one of them and you'll be fine.
Solfie wrote:Whateveries, what toxins are you thinking about? If you're saying that's what I'm saying, you're wrong. Grains are not vegetables.
apparently I was thinking on the alkaloids from the ergot from the rye from that turkey sammich. dammit.
Various plants have oxalic acid, which is bad for you if you get too much of it. Spinach is the main one that people actually eat much.
Potatoes (which could be considered a grain but aren't) make a nerve poison if they get exposed to light. They turn green and the common wisdom is that once a potato turns green you can cut off the green part and eat the rest, that the poison does not spread faster than the green. I have some doubts but I haven't tested it. I read that if you deep-fry potatoes they have less poison because some of it goes into the oil. Throw away the oil.
Sweet potatoes make a poison in response to a fungus infection. If your sweet potato gets a little moldy on one end I don't know how much of it you need to cut off to avoid the poison. Maybe better to throw the whole thing away.
Tomato roots, stems, and leaves are poisonous. Should you believe that none of the poison gets into the tomato fruits? Sure, why not? Tomatoes are 100% good for you, no poison there.
Do you believe that moldy strawberries are probably bad for you? When you eat strawberry jam or something else that's created by mashing many thousands of strawberries together, how many of them do you think were moldy? Probably not many, they're real careful about that. Certainly not enough for you to taste it.
The Law of Fives is true. I see it everywhere I look for it.