[SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:17 pm UTC

* hugs Jessica *

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:42 pm UTC

Is it ok if I share my thoughts on the subject in the form of a courage wolf meme? (courage wolf meme being traditionally aggressive, abrasive and suchforth)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby PerchloricAcid » Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:10 am UTC

I believe it is, but spoiler it just in case :)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:40 am UTC

Spoiler:
Image
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby PerchloricAcid » Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:42 am UTC

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Black Dynamite » Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:37 am UTC

I love courage wolf.

I have had to be dressed formally and professionally all this week, and though I look nice, it isn't me. It doesn't feel like me. Being dressed formally as a man is really starting to bother me. It isn't how I view myself at all, and in my mind it is very opposite of how I see myself, but everyone just sees boy me, looking nice and dressed up. i think i look too much like my dad, and that really... I don't know, hurts me? Scares me? It certainly bothers me. I also feel like I'm dressed up to go to church, because this is how I used to dress up to go there. That brings about lots of awful memories and feelings. I should be wearing a dress, or formal skirts, or whatever, not this.

I'm required to wear these clothes this week because of some school presentations I have had to do, and also because I interviewed for a marketing job last Monday, and have been training for it all week. I'm not allowed to paint my nails :( No one has specifically told me that, but, wouldn't that be unprofessional for a "man" to have painted nails in a formal, professional setting? That's my only form of gender expression that other people can see, because I'm pre-everything. It's not fair they can take it away.

This has been weighing on me. Just thought I should share.

Jessica, I'm sorry you've been dealing with so much hate :( You're an awesome person in my mind based on your posts I've seen around.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby XJ_0 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:39 am UTC

Spoiler:
There was place (a thread on the internet) that had both the words "transgender" and "haven" in its title. I thought this would be a safespace. But the consensus seems to be that "trans woman =/= real woman." My heart sunk like a rock. I am so sad. I want to believe that I'm just mis-reading, and mis-interpreting things. The mod is a trans man. No no no no no no no no, please don't be so wrong. p_q
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:09 am UTC

XJ_0 wrote:
Spoiler:
There was place (a thread on the internet) that had both the words "transgender" and "haven" in its title. I thought this would be a safespace. But the consensus seems to be that "trans woman =/= real woman." My heart sunk like a rock. I am so sad. I want to believe that I'm just mis-reading, and mis-interpreting things. The mod is a trans man. No no no no no no no no, please don't be so wrong. p_q


:/
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby PM 2Ring » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:37 am UTC

Black Dynamite wrote:I'm not allowed to paint my nails :( No one has specifically told me that, but, wouldn't that be unprofessional for a "man" to have painted nails in a formal, professional setting?

You could try a clear nail polish or nail hardener. If you think the shiny look is not sufficiently masculine you could try a clear nail polish or top coat with a matte finish. OPI make one, but you may be able to find a cheaper brand.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby doogly » Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:44 pm UTC

And then you could put stickers on it during non-work times? Stickers are fucking awesome.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Noc » Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:44 pm UTC

And if you use flame decals, it'll make you type faster!
Have you given up?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby PerchloricAcid » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:05 pm UTC

Black Dynamite wrote:I'm not allowed to paint my nails :( No one has specifically told me that, but, wouldn't that be unprofessional for a "man" to have painted nails in a formal, professional setting? That's my only form of gender expression that other people can see, because I'm pre-everything. It's not fair they can take it away.

Y'know, these kind of things make me very sad, too.
I'm a cis girl. I've always wondered what male gender "role" would be analogous to the female gender "role" of using nail polish (or, for that matter, wearing skirts, using make-up, wearing high-heels...) so that I could do it, just to raise awareness about how sucky it is that it's not considered to be okay for a "man" to have painted nails.
I was thinking about cutting my hair short, but I'm not so sure it'd look good on me. Everything I thought of is already ''acceptable'' for women (e.g. wearing ties).

That would be my kind of societal disobedience. That is something that I see as an act that I, as a cis person, could pursue to raise awareness about trans-related issues.
So, if there are any ideas, please do suggest.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Virtual_Aardvark » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:36 pm UTC

@Black Dynamite: Toenails?

I know that's not really addressing the problem but it's an option at least. The earlier suggestion of a clear polish on your fingernails is also not terrible. There's a lot of wiggle room with the small things. No one has to know that your toenails are a bright color or that your hands look so nice because you just got a mani pedi. Take as many little victories as you can. I'm sorry you're so constricted right now.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:06 pm UTC

PerchloricAcid wrote:I've always wondered what male gender "role" would be analogous to the female gender "role" of using nail polish (or, for that matter, wearing skirts, using make-up, wearing high-heels...) so that I could do it, just to raise awareness about how sucky it is that it's not considered to be okay for a "man" to have painted nails.
I was thinking about cutting my hair short, but I'm not so sure it'd look good on me. Everything I thought of is already ''acceptable'' for women (e.g. wearing ties).

There isn't really one, through the wonders of misogyny at work.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Shivahn » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:54 pm UTC

Yeah, thanks to how strongly things are marked as "girl" and how weakly they are "boy" (for the most part) due to cultural defaults, you have to be wearing the right shoes, pants, shirt, hat, jewelry, and walk the right way to get half as many looks as a man wearing nail polish.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:18 am UTC

It strikes me that a lot of things which might be interpreted as a woman dressing or acting like a man are more liable to be taken as a sign of class (specifically, of belonging to a lower class).
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Shivahn » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:21 am UTC

Hmm.

You know what, that's entirely true. I never thought about that.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby PM 2Ring » Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:01 am UTC

PerchloricAcid wrote:I've always wondered what male gender "role" would be analogous to the female gender "role" of using nail polish (or, for that matter, wearing skirts, using make-up, wearing high-heels...) so that I could do it, just to raise awareness about how sucky it is that it's not considered to be okay for a "man" to have painted nails.
I was thinking about cutting my hair short, but I'm not so sure it'd look good on me. Everything I thought of is already ''acceptable'' for women (e.g. wearing ties).


Your desire to act in solidarity with trans people is much appreciated, PA, but please don't stop doing girly stuff! Paint your nails on behalf of the trans girls who are unable to do so. If none of the cis girls are wearing skirts or makeup it makes it hard for the trans girls. I've often read male-bodied cross-dressers bemoaning the fact that they want to wear skirts & dresses, but most women in their region wear jeans or slacks, so they don't exactly blend in if they go out in a skirt.

Also consider that the majority of straight society don't really distinguish between trans and gay - so if they see a man wearing nail polish, they don't assume he's trans, they assume he's gay.

Aaeriele wrote:There isn't really one, through the wonders of misogyny at work.

Indeed. Leslie Feinberg has written extensively on this topic; Les's book Transgender Warriors is a classic, and IMHO is essential reading for everyone interested in trans history.

For those not familiar with this misogynistic "logic", here's a quick summary.
Spoiler:
Society says that male is superior to female, so a female-bodied person acting male is just trying to elevate themselves up the social ladder, but a male-bodied person acting female is degrading himself and is a traitor to the social order. A tom-boy is still a proper woman, since her fundamental identity is defined by her ability to have babies, and hopefully she'll grow out of her tom-boy phase; but a cissy is an embarrassment, and doesn't have what it takes to be a real man, but hopefully by immersing him in hyper-masculine culture his cissy tendencies can be beaten out of him...
Last edited by PM 2Ring on Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:38 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Black Dynamite » Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:03 am UTC

Spoiler:
PM 2Ring wrote:You could try a clear nail polish or nail hardener. If you think the shiny look is not sufficiently masculine you could try a clear nail polish or top coat with a matte finish. OPI make one, but you may be able to find a cheaper brand.

That's a good idea. It's like, secret nail polish :P I could laugh at everyone who sees my fingers but don't know they're polished, but I know they are. Muhahahahaha.

doogly wrote:And then you could put stickers on it during non-work times? Stickers are fucking awesome.

I love this. I must go buy little tiny stickers now.

HClO4 wrote:Y'know, these kind of things make me very sad, too.
I'm a cis filly. I've always wondered what male gender "role" would be analogous to the female gender "role" of using nail polish (or, for that matter, wearing skirts, using make-up, wearing high-heels...) so that I could do it, just to raise awareness about how sucky it is that it's not considered to be okay for a "stallion" to have painted nails.
I was thinking about cutting my hair short, but I'm not so sure it'd look good on me. Everything I thought of is already ''acceptable'' for mares (e.g. wearing ties).

Thank you :) I wish I had some suggestions for you. I can't think of anything at the moment.

Virtual_Aardvark wrote:@Black Dynamite: Toenails?

They are bright red. :D I love telling people. It's fun to watch them look down at my shoes.

PM 2Ring wrote:Also consider that the majority of straight society don't really distinguish between trans and gay - so if they see a stallion wearing nail polish, they don't assume he's trans, they assume he's gay.

This happens frequently when I'm with straight people.
Also because I look male on the outside and I have a girlfriend, sometimes the gay crowds I'm with don't take me seriously.
:/

Shivahn wrote:Yeah, thanks to how strongly things are marked as "filly" and how weakly they are "colt" (for the most part) due to cultural defaults, you have to be wearing the right shoes, pants, shirt, hat, jewelry, and walk the right way to get half as many looks as a stallion wearing nail polish.

PM 2Ring wrote:For those not familiar with this misogynistic "logic", here's a quick summary.
Society says that male is superior to female, so a female-bodied pony acting male is just trying to elevate themselves up the social ladder, but a male-bodied pony acting female is degrading himself and is a traitor to the social order. A tom-colt is still a proper mare, since her fundamental identity is defined by her ability to have babies, and hopefully she'll grow out of her tom-colt phase; but a cissy is an embarrassment, and doesn't have what it takes to be a real stallion, but hopefully by immersing him in hyper-masculine culture his cissy tendencies can be beaten out of him...

All this makes me feel awful about society.

Also, I just noticed when I copy/paste'd these quotes it also copied my word filters. I don't feel like going through and changing them, I apologize. :oops:

Thank you for the replies everyone :)
I walked out of the job training yesterday, because of how awful the job made me feel. I don't really want to go into it. I'm very happy I'm no longer apart of that whole thing.
I painted my nails ocean blue as soon as I was home.
Last edited by Black Dynamite on Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:26 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby PerchloricAcid » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:06 pm UTC

@PM 2Ring: You got me wrong, I never meant to stop doing so-called "girly" stuff. :wink:
I really like nail polish, some things about make-up, how some dresses and skirts look on me, etc...
I just wanted to add new elements to my style, as explained :)


I'm very happy I'm not longer apart of that whole thing.
I painted my nails ocean blue as soon as I was home.

Yay, happy ending! :D
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Hyphe » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:28 pm UTC

PerchloricAcid wrote:@PM 2Ring: You got me wrong, I never meant to stop doing so-called "girly" stuff. :wink:
I really like nail polish, some things about make-up, how some dresses and skirts look on me, etc...
I just wanted to add new elements to my style, as explained :)

Just as a suggestion, perhaps you could try not shaving your armpits and/or legs? For me, it feels like the most transgressive thing I do to be more masculine; to the point where I can go outside flat-chested, but I still don't feel bold enough to show hairy pits.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby PM 2Ring » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:16 pm UTC

PerchloricAcid wrote:@PM 2Ring: You got me wrong, I never meant to stop doing so-called "girly" stuff. :wink:

Nah, I got that. I was just suggesting that you can lend trans girls moral support by doing so-called "girly" stuff, and it's not so easy to do it by doing masculine stuff. IMHO. But if you want to do stuff like not shaving legs &/or armpits, please feel free.

PerchloricAcid wrote:I really like nail polish, some things about make-up, how some dresses and skirts look on me, etc...

Me, too! :)

PerchloricAcid wrote:I just wanted to add new elements to my style, as explained :)

Rightio.

How synchronistic - my radio just started playing Helen Reddy's I am Woman. :)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:43 pm UTC

Hyphe wrote:
PerchloricAcid wrote:@PM 2Ring: You got me wrong, I never meant to stop doing so-called "girly" stuff. :wink:
I really like nail polish, some things about make-up, how some dresses and skirts look on me, etc...
I just wanted to add new elements to my style, as explained :)
Just as a suggestion, perhaps you could try not shaving your armpits and/or legs? For me, it feels like the most transgressive thing I do to be more masculine; to the point where I can go outside flat-chested, but I still don't feel bold enough to show hairy pits.
That's really interesting, actually.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Ubik » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:22 pm UTC

Here's a link to a survey by European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights. It's for people living in EU or Croatia: https://www.lgbtsurvey.eu/
The site wrote:The survey asks a range of questions about LGBT people’s experiences including:

  • Personal circumstances
  • Public perceptions and responses to homophobia and/or transphobia
  • Discrimination
  • Rights awareness
  • Safe environment
  • Violence and harassment
  • The social context of being an LGBT person
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:01 pm UTC

Motorcycle now registered and plated. Changing your name once and your address twice after buying a vehicle is apparently a really awesome way to confuse an already over-complicated bureaucratic system. Also, apparently the fees I thought I would have to pay for registration were already covered in the dealers fees, so I put the difference back towards principle for the bike; minus $100 for an ereader, since I've been meaning to get one. I feel dirty. I am a consumer whore.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:34 pm UTC

Sometimes a girl just gotta indulge a bit :D
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:28 pm UTC

I'm not sure whether it's really fair to call this a problem, but recently I've been happy to such an extent that it's been distracting and prevented me from giving things the focus I need. I almost feel like I'm stoned.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby doogly » Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:35 pm UTC

Hyphe wrote:Just as a suggestion, perhaps you could try not shaving your armpits and/or legs? For me, it feels like the most transgressive thing I do to be more masculine; to the point where I can go outside flat-chested, but I still don't feel bold enough to show hairy pits.

I had this exact discussion with a student the other day! She had wanted to (for undisclosed motivations) look a guy, but she wound up just looking like she wanted to play basketball. I was all, "dig on this othering of the feminine that the patriarchy is up to, etc." Good times.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Black Dynamite » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:15 am UTC

Does anyone know any books that deal with trans stuff? I read Luna and Parrotfish, which were almost the only books I could find, and I would absolutely love some more. It might be hard for me to find a book dealing with that stuff because my criteria is hard to satisfy. My favorite genre is sci/fi and fantasy and I'd prefer the main character to be a trans girl (so I can relate and feel less alone). But I have found only one science fiction book with a trans girl protagonist, but I can't seem to find the actual book anywhere. There needs to be more trans science fiction and fantasy.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby lanicita » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:31 am UTC

There's a book called She's Not There, which someone in my class recommended and I just took it out from the library and started to read it. It's an autobiography though.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby bluebambue » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:37 am UTC

I found these lists through a google search.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bo ... er_persons
http://www.amazon.com/Transgender-Ficti ... I0LAKH1Z8V
I can't personally recommend any books though.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Black Dynamite » Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:48 am UTC

I found that wikipedia list before, and those books don't really seem to be what I'm wanting. Am I being too picky? I like the Amazon list, though. Thank you for looking :)

I'll look into that one, too, Lanicita. Thank you.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby PM 2Ring » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:49 am UTC

Black Dynamite wrote:Does anyone know any books that deal with trans stuff? I read Luna and Parrotfish, which were almost the only books I could find, and I would absolutely love some more. It might be hard for me to find a book dealing with that stuff because my criteria is hard to satisfy. My favorite genre is sci/fi and fantasy and I'd prefer the main character to be a trans girl (so I can relate and feel less alone). But I have found only one science fiction book with a trans girl protagonist, but I can't seem to find the actual book anywhere. There needs to be more trans science fiction and fantasy.


Sci-fi author John Varley does touch on trans themes in some of his stories, and some of those stories have trans protagonists, although the trans stuff is generally not central to the plot. Quite a few of his stories are set in the same future history as his early novel The Ophiuchi Hotline. In that timeline, reversible and fully-functional sex-change technology is eventually developed. After a few centuries, it becomes quite normal for most people to have spent some time as each sex, and mature adults who've never changed sex at all are considered to be a bit weird. :)

One short story set fairly early in this timeline is Options, featuring a FTM character. The novel Steel Beach is set much later in the timeline, when sex-changing is an established part of the fabric of society, and although it contains some trans stuff, it's not really a major plot focus.

I should mention that much of Varley's writing is rather dark, and may not be a good thing to read if you're feeling down. Still, he is one of my favourite sci-fi authors.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Ulc » Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:01 am UTC

Black Dynamite wrote:Does anyone know any books that deal with trans stuff? I read Luna and Parrotfish, which were almost the only books I could find, and I would absolutely love some more. It might be hard for me to find a book dealing with that stuff because my criteria is hard to satisfy. My favorite genre is sci/fi and fantasy and I'd prefer the main character to be a trans girl (so I can relate and feel less alone). But I have found only one science fiction book with a trans girl protagonist, but I can't seem to find the actual book anywhere. There needs to be more trans science fiction and fantasy.


It might not be exactly what you're looking for, but Ian M Banks Culture series is fairly interesting in this regard. It deals with a post-scarcity society (usually by looking through the eyes of it's enemies), where sex change is really, really easy.

It doesn't specifically have a trans girl as protagonist, because most of the Culture characters, you really don't know what they started out as - it's expected that anyone will live at least some amount of time as their non-birth gender, and in one of the books the protagonist is regarded as a bit strange for being strictly heterosexual and not having changed sex even once in his life. As I said, it might not be what you're looking, since the extremely easy sex-change means that there specifically is no dealing body dysphoria or other trans issues, as the setting assumes that for Culture inhabitants, those issues was dealt with millenia ago.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby flickering_candle » Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:31 am UTC

Black Dynamite wrote:Does anyone know any books that deal with trans stuff? I read Luna and Parrotfish, which were almost the only books I could find, and I would absolutely love some more. It might be hard for me to find a book dealing with that stuff because my criteria is hard to satisfy. My favorite genre is sci/fi and fantasy and I'd prefer the main character to be a trans girl (so I can relate and feel less alone). But I have found only one science fiction book with a trans girl protagonist, but I can't seem to find the actual book anywhere. There needs to be more trans science fiction and fantasy.

Lynn Flewelling has a series called the Tamir Trilogy (first book is The Bone Doll's Twin) where a girl in the extended royal family (I think the king is her uncle?) is magically given the seeming of a boy moments after birth to protect her from those seeking to eliminate the female line, and is then raised as a boy, not knowing she is a girl under the magic illusion. The author doesn't really deal with generalized dysphoria (in the first book anyway, all I've read so far) but it seems to be in the general area of what you were looking for.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Cathy » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:48 pm UTC

@ Tamir Triad- the third book in particular is very interesting as to the reactions fo her friends/family after she is revealed as a woman. The second and third definitely deal more with the dysphoria.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wyvern » Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:41 pm UTC

I know it doesn't fit all of your criteria, but Stone Butch Blues by Leslie Feinberg is an excellent book, and is worth reading.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Bassoon » Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:53 am UTC

I just want to give hugs to all the trans*, genderqueer, intersex, and any and all gender minorities in this thread for all the shit they have to put up with.

Spoiler'd for stupid hate.
Spoiler:
My friend is a player in the Starcraft II community and there's a really awesome player named Scarlett who rose up from the bottom and kicked ass like a real pro. She completely blindsided two established players, and then it was reveals that she's MtF transgender, and it community exploded with hate and support and all sorts of stuff, and she published a post saying that she doesn't care about the attention, that she just wants to be referred to as a female. I read some of the posts on her fanclub wall and they're really rather horrible, and I just wanted to stop by and give all of you an extra hug because you all have to put up with so much more shit than I ever do and I just wish that the world would hurry up and be all right for everybody to live in. :cry:


Okay, screw this. I'm really tired of feeling like I want to change something but not having the power. What can I do to help the aforementioned people? Where can I go? What resources are there?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:29 am UTC

Bassoon wrote:Okay, screw this. I'm really tired of feeling like I want to change something but not having the power. What can I do to help the aforementioned people?

Call out cissexist crap when you see it. That's the most basic thing you can do.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Kewangji » Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:01 pm UTC

*cuddles thread*
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