Mass Effect 3 (Seriously, Use Spoilers People!)

[Dark567]

There's no standard and never has been. Some people finish the games they review, some don't. There's really no point to "trust" reviewers because it's all opinion, but their business model usually necessitates that they put a spin on things.

Sure, but I think that reviewing games isn't as subjective as other forms of media. Games before anything else need to work. Glitches are a pretty objectively bad thing, no matter how minor they are and can be really deliberating if there are two many of them(See ET for the Atari). There are also things control responsiveness which seem to also be somewhat objective.

[Ghostbear]

If you only care about the Gameplay, I don't think reviewers are that bad. Just going by Metacritic's aggregates highest rated games, I tend to think they do score pretty well as far as that goes. The best PC games of 2011 were Portal 2, Skyrim, Arkham City, Deus Ex, Minecraft and Shogun 2. Of the five I played(I didn't play Shogun), they were all really good. Absolutely shit games, they also tend to give bad ratings to, no matter how well they are marketed(See the new Medal of Honor and Homefront).

It's going to vary based on the types of games you like. Some of my favorite games, not top 10 list but "I really liked this game" type, have scored really poorly on stuff like metacritic (two good examples: Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn and Alpha Protocol). The types of RPG that I do like tends to review poorly, or at least, less well, than the RPG I actively don't like, and Skyrim is a perfect example of that. Other people love it, and I would never be so stupid or self-centric as to say they're wrong or that it's a bad game, but I can't enjoy it. Portal 2 is the only game you listed (well, I didn't play Minecraft) that I would consider worthy of "one of the best PC games of 2011". Shit tons of people disagree with me on those games, and that's fine, but reviews don't help me very much at all.

Except in a very bland "could this be a good game, or could it be a terrible game?" metric, reviews are generally useless to me. I learn enough to know that I can safely skip the newest Call of Juarez, or that I might consider the newest Deus Ex, but their views rarely line up with mine.

[An Enraged Platypus]

Game reviews are, to me, worthless these days. Others still trust them though.

If you only care about the Gameplay, I don't think reviewers are that bad. Just going by Metacritic's aggregates highest rated games, I tend to think they do score pretty well as far as that goes. The best PC games of 2011 were Portal 2, Skyrim, Arkham City, Deus Ex, Minecraft and Shogun 2. Of the five I played(I didn't play Shogun), they were all really good. Absolutely shit games, they also tend to give bad ratings to, no matter how well they are marketed(See the new Medal of Honor and Homefront).

Shogun 2 was very good indeed.

[Koa]

Questionable insider info about the ending. Still an interesting read.

[Vaniver]

Questionable insider info about the ending. Still an interesting read.

Linked in the comments, the audio file for a longer conversation with Anderson.

[Gelsamel]

Questionable insider info about the ending. Still an interesting read.

Linked in the comments, the audio file for a longer conversation with Anderson.

HHHNNNNNNNGGGG...

And I didn't even play the game.

[VectorZero]

Questionable insider info about the ending. Still an interesting read.

Interesting. Not sure it would have answered all of the questions people have about the ending, but most, certainly. Regardless of how one feels about the ending (and speaking as someone who tolerates it) - accepting the deus-ex-machina, accepting the three choices as being the only ones open to Shepard, not refuting the Star Childs assertions about the inevitability of destruction¹- Joker-escaping-in-the-Normandy seems literally impossible. They must have been planning a clip showing him picking up the squadmates, right? It would've been so easy...

Linked in the comments, the audio file for a longer conversation with Anderson.

I think the relationships between Shepard and Anderson and Shepard and Hackett (and, where applicable, Shepard and Hannah Shepard) are some of the most interesting. To the squadmates, s/he is Shepard-Commander (although subtly different in each case; Garrus' relationship in particular is that of an equal), someone to be admired and respected, but also looked up to for inspiration. Anderson and Hackett draw out a different side of the character; they show their influence on Shepard.

Also, internet. "Decimated." You keep using that word. It does not mean what you think it means. (Christ, having the fleets only being decimated would be a great victory. Or am I being too picky here? )

Also, you know what would've been cool? Elcor-mounted Thanix missiles.

¹Y'know, maybe Bioware are trying to be too clever with this...
Shepard: Why?
Sovereign: I am beyond your comprehension.
Shepard: But why?
Harbinger: You do not yet comprehend your place in things.
Shepard: Whywhywhytellmewhy?
StarChild: yo dawg, i heard you don't want synthetics to kill organics so i made synthetics to kill organics so organics can't make synthetics to kill organics
Shepard: That makes no sense.
Sovereign and Harbinger: Told you so...

[Ryom]

...Also, internet. "Decimated." You keep using that word. It does not mean what you think it means. (Christ, having the fleets only being decimated would be a great victory. Or am I being too picky here?...

decimated - past participle, past tense of dec·i·mate (Verb)
Verb:

Kill, destroy, or remove a large percentage of.
Drastically reduce the strength or effectiveness of (something): "plant viruses that can decimate yields".

Archaic uses of a word doesn't count. Decimated in modern English is not the same as its latin meaning.

[VectorZero]

There you go, interposing reality before my righteous indignation

[Koa]

Shepard: That makes no sense.

It doesn't make sense because it doesn't follow logic based on the mathematical principles of the universe. A human's inability to understand such a concept would come down to the reaper's inability to explain a universe where such a thing would make sense, and if that is the case then they should say so. "Our concept of the universe is vastly greater than yours. We cannot explain to you why you cannot understand, and thus we will always come to a different conclusion to the problem." While I can't understand why it makes sense, I can at least understand how. Otherwise don't even bother to tell me anything.

[VectorZero]

Does someone think there should have been an option (should you meet certain requirements) to destroy the Reapers without also killing (the Geth|Shepard|[someone])? If so, do you think there should have been an option to save (Ashley|Kaiden) on Virmire?

Putting aside, for the moment, issues of Bioware not showing the impact of your previous choices and breaking lore, what options should have been open to Shep, such that you feel the character was in the same situation as the game as is but responded in a consistent manner? If there had been (Red|Green|Blue|Fuck You) what should have the consequences been?

Questionable insider info about the ending. Still an interesting read.

Something I forgot to mention earlier; that summary includes an option to spare Earth at the expense of alien worlds. This would've been very much in keeping with established themes and the renegade expedience-uber-alles play style. I was very surprised nothing similar made it to the final cut.

If ending DLC is made, would you pay for it or expect it to be free? (Patch vs DLC, really, I guess.)

[Koa]

If ending DLC is made, would you pay for it or expect it to be free? (Patch vs DLC, really, I guess.)

I have no expectations, but what I would request is that it be free. The PR gained from making a free DLC that fixes the ending would probably have a roughly equal monetary value to the people who would buy it, at least in the coming years. It would certainly piss off less people who feel like their whole game is being sold to them in pieces. But then, EA is astoundingly shortsighted. Plus it would only help them win this competition if they decide to monetise it. Gotta go for the gold!

[The Scyphozoa]

Am I really the only one who gets the logic behind the Reapers? You have:

A) The Reaper Cycle as it is now. Organic life keeps coming back only to be destroyed until it re-evolves from scratch.

or

B) The Reapers do not exist, the Quarians create the Geth, the Geth destroy all organic life, and then organic life can never exist again. EVER.

The Reapers effectively preserve the existence of organic life because they back off and let it grow after the end of each Cycle. Without them, there would be a war between synthetics and organics, and if the synthetics win, they win FOREVER.

I haven't played any of the games, though, so I could be missing something, but it makes sense from my perspective.

[VectorZero]

That's pretty much the reapers argument, yes. Much like pruning a garden to avoid overgrowth. However, the actions of the player in-game can counter the arguments put forward by the reapers, but the player is not given the opportunity to do so.

This is just one of the complaints about the ending, BTW.

[The Scyphozoa]

Yeah, I know all the complaints about the ending. And I'm not saying that the justification for the Reapers isn't messed up, I just can understand where it comes from.

[SecondTalon]

A) The Reaper Cycle as it is now. Organic life keeps coming back only to be destroyed until it re-evolves from scratch.

The only way that makes any sense at all is if they're looking for something from Organic Life (like, say, the desire to co-exist peacefully? New art, new science? New Synthetic Species? Dubstep?) and as such are hesitant to make a 100% "Blow it all away" decision without giving Organic Life a chance to come up with whatever it is they want.

Because otherwise... the hell's wrong with just wiping out Organic life completely? Once it's gone, it's gone.. Problem Solved. Why keep it around at all?

So, you've got the Reapers looking at Organic Life for a terribly Mysterious Something. Alright, I can dig it.... so, if you are going to explain it, then... what's the something? If it's a desire to co-exist, due to $choices$ that may be demonstrated by the Quarian Geth arrangement, then that may be satisfied. If it's a New Species, then .. that too is satisfied and so Organics no longer have a purpose, so wipe'em out.

Unless, of course, it's to cull new Synthetic Species every cycle, in which case why not demonstrate that the Universe is, at this point, filled with Synthetic species created by the Organics every cycle, only to have the Organics beat back to single cells to start the process over again?

....

So yeah... why bother explaining their motives at all? Reapers cause extinction events. Why? Because.

[The Scyphozoa]

Because otherwise... the hell's wrong with just wiping out Organic life completely? Once it's gone, it's gone.. Problem Solved. Why keep it around at all?

That's what the Reapers are trying to prevent.

As for why they want to preserve the existence of organic life, fuck if anyone knows.

[VectorZero]

I can't remember where I read this, whether it was ingame supposition from a character or from the unreliable codex or speculation from a player, but there was a mention that the reapers wipe out post spaceflight species only, thus allowing all organic species a chance to grow ... to be harvested. As to why, sodomy non sapiens.

[SecondTalon]

Because otherwise... the hell's wrong with just wiping out Organic life completely? Once it's gone, it's gone.. Problem Solved. Why keep it around at all?

That's what the Reapers are trying to prevent.

Spoilering because it's a circular argument and I'd like it to just .. go and be done.

Spoiler:

I know. Why? The hell do they care?

If you don't explain why, you're simply left with "I herd your synthetics like to kill organics, so here's some synthetics to kill your organics so your synthetics won't kill your organics" which makes no fucking sense. Yes, it's a controlled burn, but why? If the question is "Why do the Reapers attack" and the answer is no longer "Because" but has become "Because they're trying to save Organic Life by killing it" ...

You can't leave that thread hanging. Because that makes no goddamn sense. And fuck your DLC answer. Fuck it with a rusty fork. An answer for an extra $10 is no fucking answer at all.

[omgryebread]

Because otherwise... the hell's wrong with just wiping out Organic life completely? Once it's gone, it's gone.. Problem Solved. Why keep it around at all?

That's what the Reapers are trying to prevent.

As for why they want to preserve the existence of organic life, fuck if anyone knows.

Sooo... in other words, you don't understand the Reaper's motivations, just like the rest of us. The story could have gone from "Reapers kill harvest organics for reasons beyond comprehension." This seems to be what a lot of us want, and was pretty awesome when talking to Sovereign in ME1. "My kind transcends your very understanding. We are each a nation - independent, free of all weakness. You cannot grasp the nature of our existence."

Or they could have gone with a clear cut, "this is why we kill you, kay?" Instead, they went with a weird thing in between.

Also, if they're so concerned about saving organic life... why kill organic life and not say, synthetics. Instead of coming back every 50,000 years to KILL EVERYTHING, just pop out of the mass relays every time some synthetic race gets independent, kill all the synthetics, yell at organics not to do that again, then distribute free ice cream and head out back to dark space.

The reapers seem less mysterious and incomprehensible and more incredibly stupid.

[The Scyphozoa]

Yeah, you're left with that. Nobody knows why they want to preserve organic life, but they do, and it works. It's just that people seem to be focusing on "They try to preserve it by destroying it, DAT NO MAKE SENSE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES", when it actually does in a really twisted way.

And when there so much worse stuff to focus on instead.

[SecondTalon]

It only makes sense if the Reapers are actively searching for something that can only be provided by Organics, because Organics are Special Snowflakes.

[Vaniver]

Am I really the only one who gets the logic behind the Reapers?

No. The issue is not that the Reaper plan doesn't work, but that it is highly suboptimal. Remember, these are supposed to be super-advanced AI, and so when their plan is so stupid a child could come up with a better one, that destroys all credibility.

What the Reapers could do is, instead of hanging out in dark space, hang out around the Citadel, and tell all organics "by the way, if you create an AI, we'll murder every member of your species and destroy all of your worlds." Then, you don't get any AI that wipe out all organic life, and if some rebellious organics do make AI, like the Quarians with the Geth, the Reapers would know (because they're plugged in to galactic civilization), warp over, and murder all the Quarians and Geth. Organic life is preserved, and you don't need the massive collateral damage that wiping cycles has. (And with the Reapers around to enforce the AI ban, you probably won't get the Alliance military AI on the moon, or Cerberus's EDI, because they don't want to put humanity at risk.)

[Gelsamel]

Actually if they sit around in citidel space and someone figures out how to shoot out the anti-reaper ray of death then they'll all be wiped out. If they hide in dark space and they trigger it only Sovereign gets nuked and the rest can come in and rebuild all the relays and stuff.

Not that their solution wasn't suboptimal and completely stupid.

[The Scyphozoa]

All right, I guess I misunderstood what the discussion was about.

[Vaniver]

Actually if they sit around in citidel space and someone figures out how to shoot out the anti-reaper ray of death then they'll all be wiped out.

Who is building this anti-reaper ray of death? Under this plan, there aren't cycles- every organic species joins the Galactic community, and possibly the Reapers keep it a confederation and dissuade species like the Protheans from taking over the galaxy. Presuming reapers can only be built from organics, they're made from volunteers- probably the distinguished elderly. The only people that would want to bring down the Reapers are people who want to build their own AI- and designing then manufacturing something like the Crucible will be difficult when the Reapers are around and communicating with everyone (and using both cyberwarfare and indoctrination to keep tabs on everyone).

(Speaking of volunteers to be uploaded- why the heck aren't Ardat-Yakshi running a Salarian hospice?)

[BlackSails]

The entire plan is bad from the start. What happens when some civilization discovers the citadel, and instead of turning it into the seat of government, decides to turn it into a research facility? Or decides it is holy ground of the ancestors, and should be sealed and avoided? Or some civilization manages to get to citadel race level tech, but not discover a mass relay, and so are way way more advanced for the next cycle?

[ArgonV]

Is it just me, or do the packs give you all the weapons and upgrade you never use, so you'll start using them? I mostly use pistols and assault rifles, yet I've only got two pistols (Predator X and Phalanx IV) and 4 ARs (Avenger VI, Mattock I, Pheaton II and Revenant I). Yet I've got a whole array of machine pistols, sniper rifles and shotgun of high levels, as well as accompanying upgrades.
For the pistols I've only got two low level and one high level upgrade, ARs only have a stability damper IV and scope I.
I also seem to get a lot of class cards for classes I rarely use (infiltrator and vanguard)

[An Enraged Platypus]

Also, if they're so concerned about saving organic life... why kill organic life and not say, synthetics. Instead of coming back every 50,000 years to KILL EVERYTHING, just pop out of the mass relays every time some synthetic race gets independent, kill all the synthetics, yell at organics not to do that again, then distribute free ice cream and head out back to dark space.

YOU HAVE WIPED OUT THE GETH. WELL DONE.

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL OF BEN AND JERRY'S.

[VectorZero]

They'd probably get distracted by their choice of toppings and forget to eliminate the synthetics.

[Obby]

They'd probably get distracted by their choice of toppings and forget to eliminate the synthetics.

That's the beauty of Ben & Jerry's, the only appropriate topping for any given flavor is more Ben & Jerry's. So you can spend more time eliminating synthetics without the stress of deciding "chocolate or rainbow sprinkles?" first.

[Belial]

I was also chafed by them pretending that the organic/synthetic divide was COSMICALLY IMPORTANT. Because the entire reason a big point was made of Legion and EDI calling themselves "Synthetic" rather than "Artificial" is that in the Mass Effect Universe all life is artificial. We were all tampered with, guided, molded and shaped by the reapers, or by the species who came before us, or both. The fact that the geth are a created species is not special. People who act like it is are the equivalent of people who get up in arms about genetically modified crops and fail to recognize that we've been modifying our crops since roughly the bronze age.

So to use the word "synthetic" while describing them and yet still make the mistake of treating them like they're some sort of special case is just...idiotic. The star child is failing to understand subtleties that even an infant race like the Geth are fully cognizant of.

Which leads me to ask: why did we let legion die again? If we just did a software wipe on the catalyst and then installed him in its place, everything would be so much better.

[Koa]

Without them, there would be a war between synthetics and organics, and if the synthetics win, they win FOREVER

Why do they win forever? That's my initial problem with the logic, the secondary one being circular logic that ST outlined, third being Belial's point of cosmological importance. The reapers controlled the geth. Let's assume that a war breaks out between synthetics and organics.
Case 1: Organics win the war. Okay, no reason for reapers to intervene. Right?
Case 2: For some weird wacky reason, organics and synthetics can live in peace... ya know... like the geth were planning to. No reason for the reapers to intervene again.
Case 3: Synthetics win the war. Okay, reapers come, wipe out synthetics like they proved they can do, life slowly rebuilds again without the synthetic presence killing all organic life. I really need to understand how synthetics could wipe out ALL organic life FOREVER. I have no reason to believe that that would be the case, nor why reapers couldn't seed life themselves if they really care about organics existing.
Case 4: Both synthetics and organics wipe each other out. Same as case 3, but there would be no reason for the reapers to intervene.

[Yakk]

Given much more than 50k years to develop technology, civilization (be it synthetic or organic) becomes too tough for the Reapers to wipe out.

[Koa]

That's never expressed, they've always spoken as though they were infinitely greater than us implying that we could never overcome them, but I can accept that as a reason.

[Xeio]

The only people that would want to bring down the Reapers are people who want to build their own AI- and designing then manufacturing something like the Crucible will be difficult when the Reapers are around and communicating with everyone (and using both cyberwarfare and indoctrination to keep tabs on everyone).

It's funny you say that, because there were already sanctions against it before EDI was created. Oh, plus that one on the citadel (and who knows how many others).

What I'm saying is, big brother saying "don't do this" isn't going to stop it happening. They're going to have to wipe out pretty much everyone anyway. And every organic civilization is going to start developing anti-reaper tech for the inevitable day the reapers turn on them...

[Vaniver]

I really need to understand how synthetics could wipe out ALL organic life FOREVER.

So, this is a serious concern with actual strong AI. Suppose the AI looks at the galaxy, declares its current configuration inefficient, and decides that it should convert every solar system into a Matrioshka brain. It's going to disassemble all of the solar systems anyway, and doesn't have a use for organic life, so it wipes out organic life completely (probably using asteroids against planets or something similar), and then removes any place where organic life could evolve again.

Synthetic intelligence has a lot of advantages that organic life simply can't replicate. Salarians are awake 23 hours a day- synthetics could be always awake. Salarians think and talk quickly- but synthetics can operate arbitrarily quickly, and speedups of a million times compared to humans are not unimaginable. Instead of Geth being about as good shots as Quarians, it's plausible that Geth could never miss. It's plausible that every non-Geth ship would have to use wires like Battlestar Galactica, because no security can stand up to them. It's plausible that Geth could manufacture a navy as large as the rest of the organic fleets at a frighteningly fast speed.

Essentially, Geth are comparable to the Council species only because the writers decided they should be- there's no engineering reason why they couldn't become as formidable as the Reapers in the span of decades, let alone the century they've been free.

What I'm saying is, big brother saying "don't do this" isn't going to stop it happening.

It's more likely when Big Brother uses mind control and is a million times smarter than you.

The thing is, if the "Big Brother while close" plan is implausible, the "Big Brother while lightyears away" plan is a hundred times worse. The reason to wipe out organics before they could make synthetics is that you believe synthetics can foom- that is, going from creation to galaxy-dominant power in a space of decades. If the Reapers only show up every fifty thousand years, and the synthetic threat is created a century too early, oops! They just lost the galaxy.

[An Enraged Platypus]

I was also chafed by them pretending that the organic/synthetic divide was COSMICALLY IMPORTANT. Because the entire reason a big point was made of Legion and EDI calling themselves "Synthetic" rather than "Artificial" is that in the Mass Effect Universe all life is artificial. We were all tampered with, guided, molded and shaped by the reapers, or by the species who came before us, or both. The fact that the geth are a created species is not special. People who act like it is are the equivalent of people who get up in arms about genetically modified crops and fail to recognize that we've been modifying our crops since roughly the bronze age.

So to use the word "synthetic" while describing them and yet still make the mistake of treating them like they're some sort of special case is just...idiotic. The star child is failing to understand subtleties that even an infant race like the Geth are fully cognizant of.

It gets deeper than that. What kind of a definition of life and/or consciousness are the Reapers even using? There have been killer arguments against the "special" nature of organic consciousness held against machine consciousness since the late '80s. Are we saying that the Reapers don't get that conscious beings are all fundamentally alike, when the most infant Citadel race has grasped it for 200 years on the ME timeline?

[Belial]

Especially given that earlier we see that the Reapers are sitting on code that converts networked intelligences to full independent sentience. They have the "turn that geth into a person" code, and they still don't understand the obvious implications of it.

[Xeio]

Are we saying that the Reapers don't get that conscious beings are all fundamentally alike, when the most infant Citadel race has grasped it for 200 years on the ME timeline?

It seems more like they don't care at all about conscious beings. They exclusively care about the preservation of organic life, in any form, but have no qualms about exterminating individual lives or species in order to accomplish that goal.