[SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

[doogly]

Spoilered because not safespace-appropriate. -Lanicita

Spoiler:

ooooh, you believe in free will? well that's cute I suppose and not probably not the place to call it out, but I imagine it at least... kind of makes sense? but for the most part heteronormativity as somehow sanctioned by nature is a concept that is actually controversial, and you may want to think on why that would meet with resistance.

[Samik]

Spoilered because not safespace-appropriate. -Lanicita

Spoiler:

ooooh, you believe in free will? well that's cute I suppose and not probably not the place to call it out, but I imagine it at least... kind of makes sense? but for the most part heteronormativity as somehow sanctioned by nature is a concept that is actually controversial, and you may want to think on why that would meet with resistance.

I'm not even going to get into the free-will thing. Free will is not in the slightest required to assert that not all behaviors are the result of DNA hardcoded to react in a specific, pre-defined way to the exact stimuli experienced. That you chose to latch onto those two words and pretend that it undermined the entire point is very telling to me. (Specifically, it tells me that you were more interested in finding something to call me out on than actually having a substantive conversation about... anything.)



Regarding the rest:

"Sanctioned" is your word, not mind.

I've already said that I'm not talking about "heteronormativity". Heteronormativity, as I understand it, refers to quite a bit more than "heterosexuality". I have not, at any point, made any comment about gender roles. Nor have I made even the slightest suggestion that evolution somehow "sanctions" any particular set of gender roles (or sexual orientations, or even body configurations, for that matter). That you read that into my comments says more about you than it does about me, IMO.

Yet further, I have not, in any way, attempted to conflate adaptivity with ethicality. Something being "adaptive" or "maladaptive" does not somehow give it a magical "right" or "wrong" value. This is something else that you have read into my words which was not there. Again, that reflects on you.



I think that it is time that we take this conversation elsewhere. If you wish, point to your forum/thread of choice, and I'll meet you there.


EDIT: trimmed some off-topic rantiness. Calm down, Samik.

[Fantastic Idea]

Spoilered because not safespace-appropriate. -Lanicita

Spoiler:

I don't know if you guys noticed but this isn't SB OR NA.

If you want to get into a debate on nature vs nuture

you could maybe do it in one of those places better. Since having cis white hetero males in here debating is wicked the point.

I hate being sexist but this doesn't surprise me.

Oh! I see. Here's an idea. If you hate being sexist, don't pop into a safespace thread to do it just cause the whim hit you, maybe?

[semicharmed]

More unsolicited advice @Sungura:

Spoiler:

Are you taking ibuprofen? Even if you don't normally take pain killers, I really recommend it! It helps the inflammation, and so the skin feels less tight - as well as actually helping the pain. Keeping really, really hydrated also helps. Like, 'peeing clear every 30 minutes' hydrated.

And if the blisters have started to break - especially if they're bleeding - maybe cover some gauze pads in antibiotic cream, and then lightly cover the broken skin? Maybe right after some ibuprofen has kicked in.

Feel better, boob sunburns are awful and yours sounds like a whole new level of pain.

Annd: ninja'd by Meaux, but yeah. Take it to SB. I especially enjoyed seeing the phrase 'statistically mal-adaptive' here.

[Amie]

Spoilered because not safespace-appropriate. -Lanicita

Spoiler:

Oh! I see. Here's an idea. If you hate being sexist, don't pop into a safespace thread to do it just cause the whim hit you, maybe?

This. Роберт, I know you were trying to be supportive but it is very possible that the women that *I* had the ill luck of being surrounded with are assholes. I just got upset because I expected better understanding from people who had similar exposures to similar things that contributed to the general idea of the beauty myth here. And it should very much be a matter of surprise.

[mochafairy]

Here's a picture of my kitty to make everyone d'awwww because I can't be the only one who needs kitten pictures.

[Cathy]

Here's a picture of my kitty to make everyone d'awwww because I can't be the only one who needs kitten pictures.

Oh my gosh, it is so adorable!! Boy or girl? What's its name? Is it a mix or does it have a specific breed?

Thank you, I needed kitty pics!

[Samik]

Spoilered because not safespace-appropriate. -Lanicita

Spoiler:

Since having cis white hetero males in here debating is wicked the point.

I'm impressed at how many assumptions you managed to cram into such a small sentence.



I came in here with the intent to celebrate the human body and give support to women who wanted to reject certain "heteronormative" expectations of themselves. Instead, I got people going far out of their way to extract controversy from my words were I didn't intend for there to be any - translating what I actually said into what they apparently wanted to think I said, and then skewering me based on that translation.

That bothers me.

[Zarq]

Take it to PMs if you really want to continue, Samik.

[Samik]

Take it to PMs if you really want to continue, Samik.

I don't particularly want to continue. This is all so incredibly far removed from why I came into this thread in the first place. The only reason I'm still here is because I feel I have a right to account for myself, instead of leaving the appearance of consensus that I'm a bigot.

I know I shouldn't care what people on the internet think, but watching someone publicly mischaracterize you is a difficult thing to not respond to.


Thanks to your post, however, I now notice that I have a PM waiting for me. I'll go answer it and hopefully that'll distract me away from here.

[lanicita]

This debate will end now. I'll deal with closing this conversation through PMs, and please feel free to PM me if you have thoughts or concerns around it. Please do not respond to any more of the above posts with comments that are not Safespace-appropriate, which means no more debating, arguing, or personal attacks.

[semicharmed]

I have a vyshyvanka! Well, two, but one is for my mom.

Vyshyvankyy are traditional, Ukrainian embroidered blouses/shirts; I made a trip to a town nearby me to hit the 3am-9am embroidery market. I got a TON of gifts, and then splurged on a blouse for myself after realized I still had money left after buying tableclothes, and embroidered napkin sets, and then two towels. I just want to wear it ALL THE TIME, but it's definitely not everyday wear.

Spoiler:

Awful self-portrait #1

P1020704.JPG (39.73 KiB) Viewed 1729 times

Seriously, I suck at taking pictures of clothing on myself.

P1020705.JPG (39.76 KiB) Viewed 1729 times

It's hard to see in the images, but there's really intricate openwork in between the big patterns on the sleeves and next to the central pattern on the torso. I think it is now officially the second-most expensive item of clothing I own (~$75) but it's handmade and I do most of my clothes shopping at Target. And the most expensive is a dress I wore to basically every fancy-dress event I went to between ages 18-22.

[Amie]

Wow those look a lot like some of the kurtis over here! Beautiful!

[mochafairy]

Here's a picture of my kitty to make everyone d'awwww because I can't be the only one who needs kitten pictures.

Oh my gosh, it is so adorable!! Boy or girl? What's its name? Is it a mix or does it have a specific breed?

Thank you, I needed kitty pics!

Her name is Tigerlily. She's a rag doll, and 14 weeks old.

[meridian]

(...)it is very possible that the women that *I* had the ill luck of being surrounded with are assholes.

Appropriate?

[Cathy]

Oh my gosh, we got my wedding photos! Feast your eyes!

http://galleries.angel-cruz.com/cathyjustin_wedding

[Amie]

@meridian: Lol. Yes, now I'm always going to have that stuck in my head every time I meet one of them Is okay, I look fine in a DV costume

@Cathy: You look... wonderful! I'm sure you broke a few hearts *so many hugs*

[crowey]

Sungura, this might be a bit late but spoilered for unsolicited advice:

Spoiler:

I've had sunburn like that and needed proper medical intervention. In the end I got given flamazine and some proper painkillers. The risk with serious sunburn, as with any burn, is infection. The rule of thumb is if the blisters are large and cover more than a square inch you need to see a doctor. So yeah, sounds like you need to see a medic.

Cathy, your wedding looks beautiful! congratulations

[existential_squirrrel]

Cathy- absolutely frigging gorgeous

Mochafairy- aaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwww HOW ADORABLE -squee-

and here's a cute kitty pic link from me

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.3219089728859.140877.1614892198&type=3

[Aaeriele]

Oh my gosh, we got my wedding photos! Feast your eyes!

http://galleries.angel-cruz.com/cathyjustin_wedding

omgomgomg you look amazing and everything else looks amazing too

[Cathy]

Thank you all!

Kitty pics are soo cute. <3 I'll need to get some of mine up here!

[mochafairy]

Cathy-You look amazing and so happy. Congratulations!

And hooray for adorable pictures!

[Роберт]

Spoilered because not safespace-appropriate. -Lanicita

Spoiler:

Oh! I see. Here's an idea. If you hate being sexist, don't pop into a safespace thread to do it just cause the whim hit you, maybe?

This. Роберт, I know you were trying to be supportive but it is very possible that the women that *I* had the ill luck of being surrounded with are assholes. I just got upset because I expected better understanding from people who had similar exposures to similar things that contributed to the general idea of the beauty myth here. And it should very much be a matter of surprise.

I'd like to apologize for that comment.

Some men are jerks, some women are jerks. Some men and some women are, at times, a bit obtuse and don't realize what they are saying is going to come out wrong. (This also applies for people who don't identify as men OR women). It's actually quite possible that it was random chance that caused you to notice more women being jerks about this issue than men.

I'd like to think in the case of MY comment I was being obtuse and not a jerk. I apologize.

Spoilered is the real explanation for what I meant.

Spoiler:

Anyway, I'm sorry everyone. I'll try to be good.

[Sungura]

re:sunburn

Spoiler:

thanks for the advices, I've been away this weekend but yeah I have been putting bandages with antibacterials/lidocane on it on the blistering areas to keep them from being infecting and dosing up on tylenol and anything i think might help. Finally starting to sleep some at nights again. Trying today without the bandaging on my boobs but now my shoulders have started in, they seem less worse although they will peal twice I'm not seeing the signs of heaving blistering and not having the same pain issues. I didn't know that rule about >1x1inch area = professional help. Easy 24in²+ was blistering but it's down to about 6in² now. I tried to find a strapless bra to help the shoulder issue but to no avail. Might try lane bryant today but I dont have $50 to spend on a bra either my money is super tight so I'll probably just try to suck it up and deal with it. HOpefully wont rub myself raw...

...and hopefully my shoulders will look ok by the weekend....Saturday is THE WEDDING!!! and I have a sleveless dress to wear. I'd rather not look like a toasted crocodile...tips to speed pealing/healing process welcome. I'm keeping stuff very moist and lotioned up and gently pealing anything loose as it comes loose - I found soaking in water loosens the edges so I can gently rub it off and then there are nice clean edges but the middle is cracking up to peal again for round 2 and if I do too much that will blister as well so it's a balancing act.

Cathy - congrats!!! and lovely photos!

[mochafairy]

Re: sunburns

If you have any of the sunburn goo, put it in the fridge or freezer and then apply. I've found that it helps my sunburns go away faster. If you don't have sunburn goo, fill some sandwich bags with salty ice water and apply to the burn. It provides some numbing and again, helps with the sunburn and sunburn blisters.

And, yes, sunburned boobs are terrible!

[PAstrychef]

You can get a lovely product called second skin at the pharmacy, which is basically a sheet of sterile gelatin. You put it over the blister, cover with a gauze pad and tape in place. It keeps every thing moist, which helps a lot with the pain as well as improving the rate of healing. Blisters form to protect the new tissue underneath, and are filled with plasma loaded with white cells. You don't really want to drain them before they burst.

[PictureSarah]

Seconding what PAstrychef said, Second Skin is a wonderful thing whenever one has a blister, whether it's for sunburns or shoes rubbing.

[Sungura]

Hrmm Second Skin have not heard of it. I'm not popping blisters I know better, I'm letting stuff sloff off as it comes and not forcing anything, only aiding the flappyness of things that itch horribly sort of thing. And yes the "sunburn goo" (aka aloe with lidocane) is awesome but none of that stuff works on open wounds/blisters/sores. I found my bactrain with lidocane though which is what I've been using under huge gauze pads to keep stuff moist. I think the worst is over....just hoping stuff looks ok and stops pealing for this weekend and the wedding.

Totally new topic - I need costume/fashion help!

There is a costume contest at the next caving event and the theme is pretty Westernish. I have the steampunk corset I made but I need to figure out what to pair with it and is there such as thing as a steampunk pirate because that would be damn awesome but I have no clue where to start to put an outfit together. I have a month and lots of thrift stores here with good selections so suggest away!!! Here is the corset again to refresh memory I need something better for under it. I have a long faux leather skirt (wearing in photo) but I think something else might look better especially if pirate-y theme? I've always wanted a pirate outfit which is why I kinda want to go that direction =)
- corset is underbust so something needs to cover my boobs somehow
- would like to do something in my hair/hat
- air pirate maybe?
- basically need to figure out bottom half...legs and feet haha
- Making things is not out of question either, i'm handy with a sewing machine

Spoiler:

CorsetSteampunk 3_1 by Sunguramy, on Flickr

Also i love these things what are the called that go over the shoulders and arms only?

[doogly]

That is a bolero jacket.

I know this, because a bolero is a piece of armor in Dragon Warrior IV, and I was like "Mom, what is a bolero?" And she told me, and it made no sense that this would be armor, but there it was. It has stuck with me since tiny times.

[Virtual_Aardvark]

Maybe a long or knee length skirt with vertical stripes and those boots with the floppy tops? An off the shoulder frilly blouse for boob coverage and LOTS of shiny jewelery. At least that's what I think when I hear pirate.

[poxic]

I know this, because a bolero is a piece of armor in Dragon Warrior IV, and I was like "Mom, what is a bolero?" And she told me, and it made no sense that this would be armor, but there it was. It has stuck with me since tiny times.

Dragon Warrior IV ... tiny times.

North American version ... October 1992

I'll go feel old over here now.

[PictureSarah]

In which Sarah rambles about health care:
Annual ladyparts checkup successfully completed! I didn't get one last year, combination of avoidance and life was too hectic when it came time, and then we moved and I didn't have insurance for 6ish months. Anyway. New doctor. I really, really like him. He is respectful and friendly and listens to me, and has a sense of humor. I first saw him because I was sick, and decided he should be my PCP. He told me I was overdue for a pap smear, and said we could schedule an appointment for that, or he would refer me to a female colleague of his if I was uncomfortable. I said I did not have gender preferences when it came to doctors. Still, this was the first time I have had a pelvic exam done by a man, and it was slightly awkward, but not significantly more awkward than pelvic exams in general, so no big deal. Having a good doctor makes up for awkwardness. He also gave me a prescription for the NuvaRing, so birth control ahoy (again)!

[doogly]

But look, you roll with a young crowd! That should make you feel less old!
Cue Riff Raff voice:
In spirit, anyway.

[poxic]

But look, you roll with a young crowd! That should make you feel less old!

When my buddies complain about bad backs (mine is still fine) and how to finagle retirement (years away for me), that makes me feel young. Forumites talking about the '90s as the "good old days", rather than "just a while ago", does not.

[doogly]

Whoa hey, I didn't call it 'the 90's.' That does skeeve me. I just meant I was a lot shorter in second grade.

My favorite moment of discomfort causing was letting one of the fellow professors where I teach, an esteemed colleague, know that my father is younger than him. (older than you though, don't worry. this guy should probs retire so I can have the tenure track opening anyway.)

[meridian]

There is something sad and a little disturbing that I went through 6 some hours of intense shoulder/neck pain before I remembered/realized that my vibrator's first and foremost purpose (according to its creators) is a muscle massager.

Oh hell, it's sinking in that I have to be up in 3 hours. Attempting sleep again in 5, 4, 3...

[Роберт]

is there such as thing as a steampunk pirate

If there wasn't, there is now!

(I'm pretty sure it was already a thing.) Sounds awesome! I'm picturing leggings, a short skirt (not quite knee length) and of course the corset because it's awesome. So, good luck on your search of thrift stores, I'm sure you'll find something cool.

[doogly]

First that comes to mind:
http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/Bangladesh_DuPree
Pretty much the best comic (pace xkcd.)

[PictureSarah]

Copay for my birth control is $30 .

[Aaeriele]

There is something sad and a little disturbing that I went through 6 some hours of intense shoulder/neck pain before I remembered/realized that my vibrator's first and foremost purpose (according to its creators) is a muscle massager.

Magic Wand ftw?