Makri wrote:I have no idea what you're trying to say. Please clarify on who exactly hears which phoneme in which language as what (or has trouble distinguishing between which phonemes in which language). Also, all three languages are Germanic, so what does the word do there?
Sorry if I was unclear - rereading my original however I'm not sure where your confusion lies. Writing IPA wouldn't help here, because I'm not referring to the actual pronunciation, but instead the interpretation (what one hears). Allow me to try to clarify:
1) German/Dutch person speaks a German/Dutch word with "V":
- German/Dutch listener hears German/Dutch "V".
- English listener hears "something between V and F" (equally like to interpret as "V" or "F")
2) German/Dutch person speaks a German/Dutch word with "F":
- German/Dutch listener hears German/Dutch "F".
- English listener hears "something between V and F" (most likely to interpret as "F", quite likely however to interpret as "V")
3) German/Dutch person speaks a German/Dutch word with "W":
- German/Dutch listener hears German/Dutch "W".
- English listener hears "something between W and V" (most likely to interpret as "V", moderately unlikely to interpret as "W")
In all three cases, if the English listener is not specifically listening for a difference or the words are not used closely together, he may assume he simply heard an English "V".
So, a German says "Ich fahre nach Wien" (I am driving to Vienna) and the English listener hears something like "ik varuh nuk veen".
And a Dutchman says "Ik wil vandaag mijn familie feliciteren" (I want to congratulate my family today) and the English listener hears something like "ik vil vunduch mine vamelya velissiteruh".
There are of course exceptions for many different accents. I've heard German accents where there's a very large difference between the "V" and "F" and no native English speaker would mix them up; and German accents where there's so little difference that no German would be able to tell the difference either (other than from the context of the word of course); and indeed with a greater number of Dutch accents the "V"/"F" aren't as close (to the English ear) as with German; but these are all exceptions more than the rule.
For Germans and Dutch who speak English, the sound will depend entirely on how they pronounce it. I've generally found that those who speak English very well such as those who use it daily in business will also correctly pronounce the English sounds of "F", "V" and "W" with very little chance of being misunderstood. Those who haven't practiced much since school however are likely to use the German/Dutch pronunciation of the letters, making English speakers hear, "Well, what do you think of the fish vat?" as something like "Vell, vot do you sink of za vish fat?" (the "th"->"s" is of course another matter, but also common)
As for my use of the word "Germanic" I was meaning simply German and Dutch in this context. You're right that English is a Germanic language, but it's a pretty bastardised one so I was (perhaps wrongly) excluding it. It should however have been fairly clear from context I would've hoped.