[M] Political Parties Mafia: CNN projects: MAFIA WINS!

[wam]

Im all up for scum forcing lunch as well!

So we now know Snark is town.

We should also hold of on all votes (I'm looking at you snark). As if we pick a townie by mistake, scum can bandwaggon and win.

We have also got confirmation that at least one of the ex birds was scum as they knew too much about the investigations so far.

Ex birds

Me
Snark
CaptainFinglass
greenlover
Angua

So that means one of CaptainFinglass and greenlover (or both of course) is scum.

Greenlover, Having read a few previous games on here lurking is your usual strategy. But you normally seem quite with it so I am suspicous of your claiming to be lost in this game. Especially as you hammared NL and then claimed you didnt realise. I will accept your claim that you thought you had sent it in and not. However, if anyone else becomes and independant I will lead a lynch on both of you!

CaptainFinglass Not that much content to go off. My read is leaning slightly town. Would like more content to go off.

That leaves Misnomer, TMG and ahammel

I am suspicous of misomer and TMG. I fully think they could be scum trying to distance themselves. TMG most of your votes for misnomer have been at points when the odds of him bieng lynched are really low. Therefore they could easily be you trying to distance yourself from him. Also at this point Scum can easily afford to bus one team member if it can lift the suspicion on the other 2.

Ahammel I am not sure, there was the voting for me when most people seemed to feel I was town, but nothing else to really go off. I have my suspicions but I think they are more OMGUS than anything thing else.

So on this basis I reckon the scum team is misnomer, tmg, greenlover (in no particular order). I would therefore be happy with a lynch of any of them.

[Misnomer]

Misnomer today (if he was town, he'd likely have been NK'd last night instead of Angua)

Yeah, they're really going to kill the lurkery player who everyone seems to have found scummy all game...

Snark's confirmed town, but to be honest I'm surprised he is. It would have made far more sense for scum to kill snark, because that wouldn't have produced a confirmed townie in the process. Makes me suspect that our scum faction is made up of more inexperienced players.

Anyways, of the 5 remaining scum candidates...

GL - lurky lurky lurky... but when he was active his content seemed mostly ok, even if I stlll think D1 NL was a terrible idea. As has been discussed, his chaotic day-ending didn't really give any advantage to scum, so I have no suspicions there. Overall, it's a whole load of neutral - he might be town, he might be scum. But he's not given us much to go on, so I'd say he wasn't a candidate for today's lynch. If he is scum, we can always lynch one of his buddies today and go after him tomorrow.

Ahammel - Looking over his posts, they all seem fairly reasonable tbh. Nothing particularly suspicious jumps out, so I don't suspect him of being scum and I therefore wouldn't say he was a lynch priority.

CaptainFinglass - Also quite lurkery, though I get less off a good vibe off of his posts compared with GL's. There's no smoking gun, but they're all really quite safe, making me moderately suspicious. Would not be my preference for a lynch today however.

wam - his early 3-party strategy was dangerous for town, but that could just have been a newbie error. He's taken more of an active role in scumhunting as the game's gone on, which is usually a good sign. 'Well this isn't going to plan!' worries me somewhat though, falling as it does into the 'oh dear another Town death' category of scummy statements (for those unfamiliar with this, there is a theory that scum are more likely to make non-content comments on town's situation at the start of each day in the misguided belief it makes them appear townie). Opposed NL at 'mylo'. I'm also not sure I like the equation of scummyness with lurkerness. It's a mixed bunch, but I think I've got some real doubts about this one. A lynch candidate.

TMG - opposed D1 NL (yay!) and actually seems to have thought along similar lines as I did in D1. Misses wam out of his analysis post, which could be a tell or could be absolutely meaningless. Votes for me on the grounds I'm the most scummy, but this is based entirely off of my support for forming bear. Understandable at that stage perhaps, but what's more unnerving is that in D3 he votes for me at mylo on the grounds and today has stated that he's convinced I am scum - that's quite a strong conviction coming so early in the day, especially given that I was hardly unique in supporting the bear flood. There's also the turtle factor, in that if I don't find ahammel scummy then it stands to reason that TMG is likely scum.


I can't shake off the feeling that the vote against me yesterday was partly in the hope of snatching victory at mylo. My unofficial vote's going to TMG.

[CaptainFinglass]

As town, I will be recommending our next 3 lynches:
Misnomer today (if he was town, he'd likely have been NK'd last night instead of Angua)
TMG tomorrow (as he and Misnomer have been buddy-buddy)
CaptainFinglass the day after (it was between her, ahammel, and wam in my mind. Still not sure between them, but this is my best guess.)

Any chance you'd like to explain why I'm your best guess between ahammel, wam, and I?

I find it slightly suspicious that GL is the only one who ended up as an independent, but certainly not enough to advocate a lynch on him today. The reasons he gives for it are entirely plausible. Reading through several old games, it seems that lurking is his playing style, so I'm not getting any bad vibes there. I'm leaning more town with him than anything.

[Snark]

@CaptainFinglass
Day 1 votes - You voted No Lynch while wam voted Adam. So far wam's looking the worst.
Day 2 votes - You and ahammel voted for Jesse. Now all three of you look the same.
Day 3 votes - largely irrelevant

My best guess is that wam is town for early on being fine with me or webby getting the cop results.
My best guess is that ahammel is town for providing lots of content.
My best guess is that you are scum because you haven't provided that much content, TMG defended you on D1 when you were getting votes, and Misnomer put you down as neutral on D1.

[Snark]

Vote: Misnomer

There's no point in waiting if no one's going to post.

[Misnomer]

Snark, you need to unvote and you need to unvote now. Lynch me and it's practically a guaranteed loss.

I freely admit I have not been on form this game - my scumdar failed early on, I've struggled to get my head around the strategy and I've not been able to put as much time in to it as I would have liked. Read over my posts and you can see that I've played badly. Put badly does not equal scummy. My missteps would have been as missteps even if I were scum - I would not have gained any advantage from them. Plus, my play in this game does not at all match my playstyle in past games where I have been scum. To be blunt: when I'm scum, I'm more professional than this.

Your vote on me means that the scum team can just all vote me and end the day (and effectively the game). At the very least, you need to unvote and wait until others have voted before casting your vote - you're above suspicion, but the rest of us aren't. Our votes will give us clues as to who the scumteam really are.


Vote: TMG

For the reasons I have already given.

[Snark]

Because you're convincing and because it doesn't matter what order you and TMG are lynched in:
Umvote
Vote: TMG

[wam]

Really, of all the people in the game I am most convinced that misnomer is scum. This was just reinforced by you sayinig that my "well this isn't going to plan" comment was scummy. If it was on its own yes I agree with you, but it was a flippant throwaway comment at the start of a post with loads of content.

This makes me highly suspcisous of misnomers TMG vote as I can't see what good bussing would do scum at this point.

therefore

vote:misnomer

[Misnomer]

Really, of all the people in the game I am most convinced that misnomer is scum. This was just reinforced by you sayinig that my "well this isn't going to plan" comment was scummy. If it was on its own yes I agree with you, but it was a flippant throwaway comment at the start of a post with loads of content.

If it was on it's own then it would be highly scummy indeed, to the extent that I'd probably be voting for you now instead of TMG. But just because a scummy comment was followed by actual content doesn't mean that the scummy comment ceases to be scummy. Any sort of 'have I mentioned I am townie today?' comment after the alignment flip - of which perhaps 'yay town!' and 'sorry [lynched townie]' are the most notorious - should raise suspicion. Do I think you intended it with meaning? No, scum rarely do. But it's the 'flippant throwaway' comments that are often the best way town can get a glimpse of the mask slipping. I stand by my point.

This makes me highly suspcisous of misnomers TMG vote as I can't see what good bussing would do scum at this point.

Care to elaborate?

Just a few posts ago, you argued that both TMG and I were scumbuddies together, coming to this conclusion based of our alleged distancing. Indeed, it was only this claim of distancing that you actually named as a reason for suspecting me of scummyness. Furthermore, you went on to say 'at this point Scum can easily afford to bus one team member if it can lift the suspicion on the other 2.'

Yet just now you implied that you no longer thought TMG was scummy, on the grounds that you thought I was scummy and was voting for him, and that you no longer saw any reason for bussing. I say implied because you were pretty damn vague in your comment - it looks more like suspicious mud than anything else.

So, in the interests of clearing things us:

1. Do you still suspect TMG of being scum?

If you do then...
2. Why have you changed your mind about bussing being likely to occur?
3. Why have you gone from no longer having any preference between a lynch on GL, TMG and myself to being convinced I am scum?

If you don't then,
2. Why have you changed your mind TMG being scum?
3. With 'distancing' no long being a factor, is your suspicion of me based upon anything other than your above OMGUS?
4. Do you still consider me to be as scummy as GL?

[wam]

Argh yet again I should have explained myself better.

When I wrote my post I felt that the three of you were about equal in the scummyness. However, I found your reasoning in the post directly after mine to be scummy thereby elevating you up to the most scummy out of my list.

1) yes I think TMG is still likely to be scum but not as much as I did before

2) I keep changing my mind on whether bussing is likely to occur.

3) I answered above

This makes me highly suspcisous of misnomers TMG vote as I can't see what good bussing would do scum at this point.

What I meant by this post is that your vote for TMG seemed to be a self preservation vote, as based on the contributions so far, one of the two of you is going to be lynched.

Also my suspcions of GL come from the fact that one of GL and Finglass must be scum, as we had scum in the birds. I felt that both of them were unlikely to be scum and of the two GL was more suspicous. See my earlier post for more detail.

[ahammel]

Ok, well as long as we're throwing votes around here's my thinking:

- I know at least one of Misnomer and TMG is scum, but I suspect it's only one of them on grounds of best mafia play to dissolve turtle and Misnomer's TMG vote.
- If there is only one scum among them, I think it is more likely to be Misnomer for the reasons elaborated above.
- If they're both scum, Snark is right and lynch order doesn't matter.

Vote: Misnomer

[Snark]

I'm gonna give others some time to break the tie.

I honestly don't care if only 1 of Misnomer and TMG are scum, and scum come and break the tie and win the game.

I'm guessing that TMG and Misnomer are going to be lynched today and tomorrow. If they're not both scum, town's done for. What's the difference between losing today and losing tomorrow?

If no one breaks the tie, I'm switching back to Misnomer.

[Misnomer]

I'm guessing that TMG and Misnomer are going to be lynched today and tomorrow. If they're not both scum, town's done for. What's the difference between losing today and losing tomorrow?

If no one breaks the tie, I'm switching back to Misnomer.

If that's your attitude, and you absolutely cannot comprehend adopting any course of action other than lynching me either today or tomorrow then you might as well switch back and vote for me now, because you've already lost us the game. -_-

[Snark]

I just don't see how you're going to avoid being lynched. You've seemed suspicious for a while.

Choose a scum team: all three people and explain why that team works the best.

Town needs to choose all 3 scum correctly to win. So help us do that if you're town.

[Misnomer]

I just don't see how you're going to avoid being lynched. You've seemed suspicious for a while.

Choose a scum team: all three people and explain why that team works the best.

Town needs to choose all 3 scum correctly to win. So help us do that if you're town.

I've seemed suspicious all game because people have been calling me suspicous all game. There is very little to actually suggest I am scum.

Also, the advantage of only getting to lynch one person per day is that you don't need to name all the scum at once - you only have to find one likely scum, and then take each day in stride. There is absolutely no sense in deciding upon three scum picks now and then sticking to them come what may.

For what it's worth, if I had to name a scum team, my guesses would be TMG, wam and CaptainFinglass, in order of decreasing confidence. I advocate lynching TMG today, and further analysing wam and Finglass tomorrow in light of their behaviour today and tomorrow in order to establish with reasonable confidence whether or not they're probable scum.

[Snark]

All righty then. Let's see what everyone else thinks. I'll keep my vote on TMG.

[Krong]

Votals:
2 - Misnomer (wam, ahammel)
2 - TheMaskedGecko (Misnomer, Snark)

7 players alive, 4 to lynch
3 to lynch at deadline (Sunday, April 22nd, at 5:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time)

[CaptainFinglass]

Well, I'll break the tie.

Vote: Misnomer

He's acted the most consistently scummy since the beginning of the game, IMO. As wam pointed out, his this isn't going to plan comment didn't help with that. As well, his only arguement seems to be that if we lynch him we lose. He's not defending himself with any examples other that that that I can see, which makes me all the more convinced he's scum.

[Snark]

If Misnomer and at least one of wam/ahammel/CaptainFinglass are town, scum may now hammer Misnomer for the win.

If this doesn't happen, I'm gonna assume Misnomer is scum and hammer him myself.

[TheMaskedGecko]

Ooh, look, a shiny hammer
Vote:misnomer
Goodnight, sleep well.

[Krong]

Votals:
4 - Misnomer (wam, ahammel, CaptainFinglass, TheMaskedGecko)
2 - TheMaskedGecko (Misnomer, Snark)

Sometimes in politics, perception is everything. Misnomer hadn't really done anything terribly wrong, but a perception that he was somehow scum of the earth had nevertheless built up over the past few days. A decision was soon reached -- he must be one of the mafia.

Misnomer has been lynched.

"Well, are we still in this?" The council members looked around hesitantly after stringing Misnomer up. But from the shadows, all they could hear was snickers and cackling.

"Uh oh... wait, we still have the power to kill greenlover! Let's do that, we still have a chance..." But the laughter only grew louder.

For it seemed that neither Misnomer nor greenlover were mafia. A quick gunshot rang out, ending the life of the confirmed townie Snark, and then the mafia stepped into the light. ahammel, CaptainFinglass, and TheMaskedGecko glared at greenlover and wam. "This is our town now."

greenlover and wam consulted the book containing rules on parliamentary procedure, and discovered that they were right. Mafia had full control of the vote, a kill, and the ability to keep Bear and Turtle out of the town's hands. There were three mafia to two townies, and there was no way for the town to catch up. The news finally projected what had been increasingly obvious earlier: the mafia had won.

The remaining townies were given crappy bureaucratic jobs to keep them out of the spotlight, and the mafia took over full control of the town. The citizens of Caucus City were a bit disappointed to be ruled by such violent people, but it turned out that the Mafia government was able to balance the budget, cut taxes, and finally fix the crumbling highways. No one asked how, of course.

The city settled into the relative piece of one-party rule -- that is, until the infighting began. But that's a story for another day.

MAFIA WINS!
The mafia was:
ahammel
CaptainFinglass
TheMaskedGecko

Please post any thoughts or questions about the setup; it will help me mod games in the future better. I feel like I didn't do a great job of explaining the rules, but I think you guys generally got the gist of it.

[ahammel]

Spoiler:

And that's why you never go against a Sicilian Canadian when death is on the line!

GG town. I think you'd have done better to spend less time strategizing party switches and more time scumhunting, especially on D1 (in fact, I said as much then).

@ Krong: I loved the setup. If there's a Political Parties 2, I would suggest having more players and put a cap on the number of members a party can have (say , 4). Bonus points if the numbers are such that it guarantees that the Fish can exist on D1. The party concept was great, but it's a pity that only Bear, Turtle and Bird came into play.

[ahammel]

From the spoilers:

I'm town. Here's my strategy from last night: I believed JSO was town, but that's irrelevant to the plan (he was going to get lynched anyways). JSO gets lynched, turtle goes to 4 players and is in danger of being dissolved if scum NK a turtle. So how do I make sure that scum NK a bird? I changed my Bird party action vote to Investigate Snark, send results to Angua. This broke the tie. No one can change that investigation without looking scummy, and none of the Birds have tried yet.

Now scum will want to kill me as I'll be a confirmed townie tomorrow. But they can't kill me without letting both Bird and Turtle stay active.

I was quite worried you'd go to Turtle without telling anybody. That would've outed a mafioso if only one tried to leave the party that night (he'd be the only indie in the morning). As it was, it certainly would be a bit awkward for us (and you, actually). If you and Angua had both had that idea (and not said anything about) you'd have won the game.

Also:

Note: If Angua is scum, she could always lie and say she got a scum result, but I think most of the town will believe me over her.

I disagree. I'm pretty sure town would've lynched you in an instant if they had a cop result against you

[Krong]

Mafia had a semi-risky opportunity to all go Fish last night and try to steal the vote today. You would have had 4 votes to your name, enough to steal the lynch and the game, but the remaining townies would have had to figure out why you were all indies plus lynch one of you within 24 hours of the day starting. That seemed unlikely to happen, but you never know. Of course, greenlover being indy would have helped with the confusion factor, but you wouldn't have known that going in.

Monkey would have been very helpful in closing down potentially anti-town parties, if Town had chosen to be more proactive about that.

Rabbit would likely not be much use, except if the strategy from the start had been all-Bear, and they wanted Rabbits around to pry people out of Bear. I never promised all parties were equally useful, though, nor did I intend them to be!

A max limit on party membership is a good idea, although I would have had to come up with a system for figuring out who gets in and who doesn't.


I think town's main problem this game was an insistence on preserving all obviously-pro-town powers at any cost, even though they were quite weak, and even when it meant lynching one of your best strategizers on D1.

[mpolo]

For me, this came too quickly on the heels of Hogwarts, which had a very similar dynamic, due to the possibly corrupt town powers. (Of course that corruption possibility was even worse here.) And that possibility gives me a bit of a headache.

That said, it was basically balanced, and ahammel is right that we should have played this more vanilla. Krong posted in the spoilers that more kills is always pro-town. I think that that is only true in a fully random situation. In this case, we would have lost extremely quickly with two kills, since essentially every single suggested lynch target (until the last day, when a mafia was Snark's third choice, I believe) was town.

I kind of realized on Day 2 that even Turtle had become useless due to infiltrators (that we asked to join), but I was so scared of Bear and our out-of-control lynch mob that I was paralyzed as to what to do. It was a bitter pill to have to force myself to vote No-Lynch on Day One, even though I knew that it was absolutely the wrong thing to do. I should have put out a random vote (or a try-to-hit-scum vote -- but I was totally in the dark on that one), but I thought I could at least save one townie. Guess I was wrong there.

[wam]

Well if we had killed greenlover that would have left me as the only town not sure if that is good or bad.

Town did do pretty shockingly all game and I will take my portion of the blame! At least I did pick 1 scum out of the final 3. And I knew one of finglass and GL was scum but picked the wrong one. Oh well!

[Snark]

I'll step up to bat and take my blame as well. Horrible D1 for me that started off the game badly. D2 was only slightly better. D3 was whatever. D4 I finally did the right thing but too little to late, I guess.

Great game setup. Thanks Krong for all the fun.

[Angua]

All I can say is that at least I stopped us from lynching the wrong person on mylo. I feel vindicated now.

[BoomFrog]

essentially every single suggested lynch target (until the last day, when a mafia was Snark's third choice, I believe) was town.

No matter what other strategy there is, town should lose if this is the case. Letting people use bear but keeping the bear voting records as public as possible would have given town more information. If you're assuming that scum can manipulate a public vote and not get caught then you are assuming scum can win the game.

Fun game to watch, and I like the setup. Bear+Rabbit for essentially two lynchs per day would have been interesting, but I think bird was clearly a useful tool, although it would have been a lot more useful if it hadn't been compromised which is almost impossible.

Maybe a new rule that an inactive party only requires 2 players to become active but an active party needs three members to stay active. That would encourage more people to shift around to different parties since you only need to have the same idea as one other player.

[greenlover]

No wonder I couldn't get a read on anyone - most of the mafia were new players who's playing styles I couldn't grasp at easily. Huh.

Anyway, sorry for the constant lurking, fellow townies. I really was off base for most of this game, sadly. :/