Resistance 5 - Spies Win! (3-1)

[Adam H]

The Resistance 5

General Rules (Tweaked for Resistance):

Spoiler:

1. You may only talk about this game in this thread and in an appropriately named spoiler in the Discussion Thread. If you are NOT playing this game, do NOT post in this thread. Likewise, you cannot talk about other current games in this thread.
2. You may not play to lose. This will not be tolerated.
3. Do not lurk. If you no longer want to or can't play, ask the mod as soon as possible for a replacement. If there are no replacements, you must keep playing until a replacement arrives.
4. You may NEVER edit your posts.
5. Questions about the game should be PMed to the mod, or posted in-thread like this:

Bold, on a newline.

How to play The Resistance (please read carefully)

Spoiler:

1. There are two sides in the resistance – the Resistance (town), working to bring down an evil empire, and the Spies (scum), who work for that evil empire and who have infiltrated the Resistance. For this 7 player game, there are 4 Resistance, and 3 Spies

2. The spies know one another but may never communicate privately.

3. The game is divided into FIVE missions. Each mission has two phases: 1) Team Proposal Phase: a leader proposes a team consisting of two to four players; 2) Mission Phase: players vote to accept or reject the mission team, and if the mission is accepted then it either passes (yay!) or fails (boooo!).

4. During the team proposal phase, the team leader (randomly chosen first, and then proceeding down the player list) chooses anyone in any combination they wish for the mission, including themselves. Failure to propose a team by deadline will result in a rejected mission team. Once a team is proposed, the mission phase begins.

5. During the mission phase, all players (including the current mission leader) then privately vote (either ACCEPT or REJECT) on the proposed team. At the same time, any spies on the proposed mission team will privately submit their mission disposition (either PASS or FAIL).

6. The mod will then reveal the results of the mission phase. Every player’s vote will be announced. If the mission was REJECTED by at least half of the players, then the mission never happened. The next person on the list becomes the new leader, who proposes a new team for the same mission. If the team proposal was ACCEPTED by more than half of the players, then the mission results are also shown (number of PASSES vs. number of FAILS submitted by the mission team).

7. If there is just one FAIL on a mission, the entire mission is SABOTAGED. Otherwise, the mission SUCCEEDS.

Please note the difference between ACCEPTING and REJECTING a proposed team and PASSING/SUCCEEDING or FAILING/SABOTAGING a current mission.

8. The Resistance wins the mission if it succeeds. The Spies win the mission if it is sabotaged.

9. After a mission is completed (either successfully or sabotaged), the next person on the list becomes the team leader.

10. The first team to win three missions, wins the game.

11. If there are ever THREE consecutive team rejections for the same mission, then after the third rejection the mission counts as SABOTAGED.

Plot Powers

Spoiler:

At the beginning of each new mission, the team leader will be given two plot powers (chosen randomly) to distribute amongst the players, except himself. To distribute the plot powers, the leader will say who receives each plot power, in-thread and bolded. Permanent and immediate powers will be used by the appropriate player immediately. Team leaders must distribute plot powers before a mission team is proposed, but discussion is allowed before they are distributed.

The team leader then proposes the team normally.

To use a plot power, declare it publicly in the thread, in bold. All plot powers can be used at any time, except Take Responsibility which must be used immediately, and Opinion Maker which is permanent.

There are SIX different plot powers. Some plot powers have duplicates; these are represented by x2.

Strong Leader x2
1 Time Use
The player who receives this plot power may become the Leader at any time. If this is used before plot powers have been distributed, that player also receives the plot powers to distribute. If this is used during the mission phase, then the voting is cancelled and those votes are never announced. This does not count towards the number of consecutive rejections.

No Confidence x2
1 Time Use
The player who receives this plot power may force a leadership change at any time. The next player in line becomes the mission leader. If this is used during the mission phase, then the voting is cancelled and those votes are never announced. This does not count towards the number of consecutive rejections.

Keeping a Close Eye on You x2
1 Time Use
The player who receives this plot power may select another player on the current proposed mission team, whose mission disposition (PASS/FAIL) will then be PMed to the player who used this plot power, when the mission results are revealed (if the mission is accepted). This use of this power and its target is announced by the player in-thread (probably during the mission phase), and the target will be given the opportunity to change their mission disposition - the deadline will be extended 24 hours from the use of this plot power. If the mission team is rejected, it will be as if “Keeping a Close Eye on You” was never used.

In the Spotlight
1 Time Use
The player who receives this plot power may select another player on the current proposed mission team, whose mission disposition (PASS/FAIL) will then be made public when the mission results are revealed (if the mission is accepted). This use of this power and its target is announced by the player in-thread (probably during the mission phase), and the target will be given the opportunity to change their mission disposition - the deadline will be extended 24 hours from the use of this plot power. If the mission team is rejected, it will be as if “In the Spotlight” was never used.

Opinion Maker x2
Permanent
The player who receives this plot power must vote publicly on mission proposals for the rest of the game. The deadline for the rest of the players will be extended 24 hours from the use of this plot power.

Take Responsibility
Immediate
The player who receives this plot power must immediately choose a plot power to take from another player. This can be used on the current round of plot power distributions.

Role PMs:

Spoiler:

You are a loyal member of the resistance. Your goal is to successfully complete 3 out of 5 missions. You are unable to sabotage missions.

You are a spy. Your goal is to sabotage 3 out of 5 missions. If you are on the mission team, you have the option to sabotage the mission.

The spy team is [ ].

Important Rule Changes:

Spoiler:

-The voting phase and mission phase are now consolidated. Spies must send in their pass/fail along with their accept/reject during the Mission Phase.
-You can talk at all times.
-No spy chat at the beginning, and no spy plot powers.
-Default vote is accept if you are on the team, reject if you are not on the team.
-You no longer choose the mission; you must go on missions in the correct order.
-You can use plot powers at anytime and the use is public. Several plot powers have been removed or changed.
-3 consecutive rejections is a failed mission instead of a game-over.
-Failure to submit a mission results in a rejected team. You can pm the mod at any point in the game to set up a default team in case you miss the deadline as leader.

Misc:
Team proposal phases will last 72 hours, and mission phases will last 24 hours. A deadline extension may be requested at any time. I will not accept “We could use more general discussion” as justification for a deadline extension. An example of reasonable justification could be a request to wait until a particular player answers a specific question.

As for as the amount of content you need to provide, all I ask is that you play to win, and you never intentionally ignore questions directed at you (if other players genuinely want an answer). If all you have to say is, “I don’t care, just propose the team already”, then that’s totally acceptable content. (Though if you’re just not fun to play with, that may be cause for replacement).

Helpful links:
How to play
Strategy forum

Players:
1. New User - SPY
2. wingedocelot - SPY
3. RaceBandit - SPY
4. Trineroks
5. wam
6. Chickenfish t1mm01994
7. Snark

The players required per mission:
Mission 1: 2 players
Mission 2: 3 players
Mission 3: 3 players
Mission 4: 4 players (2 fails needed to sabotage)
Mission 5: 4 players

Standings
Mission 1: Success [wingedocelot, RaceBandit]
Mission 2: Fail [RaceBandit, Trineroks, t1mm01994]
Mission 3: Fail [Trineroks, Snark, New User]
Mission 4: Fail [wam, Snark, New User, wingedocelot]
Mission 5:
Missions Completed by the Resistance: 1
Missions Sabotaged by the Spies: 3




I have sent out role PMs. Please confirm that you received a role PM in-thread. Once everyone has confirmed, I’ll assign a leader and the game will begin.

[Chickenfish]

/confirm

[New User]

Confirmation

[trineroks]

Confirmed.

[RaceBandit]

Confirm role

No, newbies, the spies cannot summon a dragon to nuke the Resistance base before the game even starts. That's not how this game works. Not to mention, if they could destroy the base beforehand, the Empire would be horribly IMBA and I'm 100% sure they'd also be undefeated, which wasn't the cases in drafts 1, 2, and 4. (Take 1 of draft 3 could also count, as the spies' cover got blown too quickly via plot powers and the spies had to concede before the second mission.)

[Snark]

Confirming.

[Snark]

May we talk strategy now?

[Adam H]

May we talk strategy now?

I'm going to say no. Just because I would rather everyone be involved in the discussion, and if they haven't confirmed we know they can't give input.

[trineroks]

So guys, I just got the role of spy. What's a spy supposed to do?

Jk lads . Let's overthrow da government!

[wam]

confirm

[wingedocelot]

confirm

[Chickenfish]

So I'm going to be away for about 72 hours... will hopefully be able to duck in quickly and do all my appropriate voting, but don't expect any great substance from me!

[Adam H]

Mission 1

The war is almost over. The Evil Empire has all but won. The Resistance has just seven generals left to command our once mighty army. As we consolidate our forces to fortify Castle Havon, the last castle in our control, a messenger brings word: the Empire is marching towards us. To make matters worse, I intercepted not one, not two, but THREE ravens leaving the castle last night. All three birds were flying east, towards the Empire, and all were carrying letters. The letters are unsigned, and contain troop information that only the seven of you are privy to. That’s right - three of you are traitors. And unfortunately for the Resistance… you’re all we’ve got.

For our first mission, we need two of you to send forth our scouts to get an understanding of what we’re up against.

Wingedocelot is the current mission leader for Mission 1, which requires 2 players. The deadline to propose a team is 5 days (120 hours) from this post. If a team is not proposed by Wingedocelot by the deadline, the proposal will count as rejected. To propose a team, just make a post like this, in bold:

Mission 1:
Player 1: [ ]
Player 2: [ ]

Two random plot powers are given to wingedocelot to redistribute. They are “Keeping a Close Eye on You” and “In the Spotlight”. The following is a reminder of how to use the plot powers:

Spoiler:

The mission leader needs to redistribute both plot powers before proposing a team. The plot powers can be given to the same player or different players, however, the mission leader cannot give a plot power to themselves. The plot powers can be used at any time the receiver chooses; the powers do not have to be used for this mission (though they can be).

Keeping a Close Eye on You
The player who receives this plot power may select another player on the current proposed mission team, whose mission disposition (PASS/FAIL) will then be PMed to the player who used this plot power, when the mission results are revealed (if the mission is accepted). This use of this power and its target is announced by the player in-thread (probably during the mission phase), and the target will be given the opportunity to change their mission disposition - the deadline will be extended 24 hours from the use of this plot power. If the mission team is rejected, it will be as if “Keeping a Close Eye on You” was never used.

In the Spotlight
The player who receives this plot power may select another player on the current proposed mission team, whose mission disposition (PASS/FAIL) will then be made public when the mission results are revealed (if the mission is accepted). This use of this power and its target is announced by the player in-thread (probably during the mission phase), and the target will be given the opportunity to change their mission disposition - the deadline will be extended 24 hours from the use of this plot power. If the mission team is rejected, it will be as if “In the Spotlight” was never used.

A couple reminders: Let me know if you're going to be MIA for more than a few days. I'll take that into account when setting deadlines. You can set up your default votes in case you won't be around for the deadline, via PM. Anything regarding default votes in-thread will be ignored by me. And also, the only dumb question is the one you didn't ask.

[wam]

Ok my thoughts are that we should pick two people and put a power onto each of them. Either spies will have to fail the mission and be outed or they will have to pass it and we get 1 ahead. Thoughts?

[Snark]

My first Resistance game. How exciting.

Having read a little of the other Resistance games in this forum, I think the best thing to do on the first mission is let the leader and the person after them on the sign-up list go on the mission, while giving the plot powers to the next two people. This is straightforward and difficult to manipulate. Suggestion: wingedocelot and Racebandit on the mission, a plot power to trineroks, and another to wam. Notice that this is for the first mission only, as we'll have actual info to use for every mission after this one.

Ok my thoughts are that we should pick two people and put a power onto each of them. Either spies will have to fail the mission and be outed or they will have to pass it and we get 1 ahead. Thoughts?

@wam, Not a good idea. Using both powers on the first mission is wasteful, since In The Spotlight will make it easy to determine the other mission member's pass/fail status.

I think that the spies would be willing to fail mission 1 in this 4/3 setup, which is different than most games that I've read. If we use no powers on the first mission, and it gets failed by one person, then we've separated our group into 3/2 off mission and 1/1 on or possibly 4/1 off mission and 0/2 on which isn't much information in the first case (as we most likely won't be able to distinguish between the two cases). We could get lucky however, if we send two spies on the first mission and they both fail it. That'd be awesome, but unlikely.

So my opinion is that we should use exactly 1 of the powers on M1 and save the other for M2 or M3. I'd rather use KaCEoY for the first mission.

This is my first resistance game (though I know it is for many of us) so lets try not to crucify anyone for suggesting less than stellar strategies (as mine might be). Feedback on my idea would be great!

[Snark]

New thoughts:

1. Why is no one else posting? It's been a few hours.
2. I think I've changed my mind about the power I think should be used on the first mission. I think it should be In the Spotlight. This guarantees either Mission 1 passing or outed spies.

[RaceBandit]

I'll take a look at the powers. If my analysis is wrong, feel free to point out my mistake(s).

Strong Leader: Obviously dangerous in the hands of a Spy, as they can yoink a mission control at two rejects and force a sabotaged mission onto us.
No Confidence: No longer counts as a rejected team, huh? I'd say this is less dangerous than Strong Leader since a Spy would only get it to work if the control is bounced to a Spy. AFAIK it would be harder for spies to force a sabotage onto us via this than with SL.
Keeping a Close Eye on You: Investigative role. Useless if spies decide to clear a mission, but with no spy chat, they haven't gotten a chance to organize who will fail what, so it's actually more useful than I made it sound. Don't underestimate it.
In the Spotlight: Not as instantaneous as Close Eye, but it's public if the mission procs, pass or fail.
Opinion Maker: I don't know what to make of a public vote. In the past games I've read, some people have publicly mentioned their votes... OM could force an honesty policy on them, but even then, I don't know how useful this is. Applejack is the last pony you'd want to play this on, but she isn't playing, so whatever.
Take Responsibility: Easily the most dangerous power in the game IMO. We need to keep this away from the Spies, as they could hijack our power-based strategies in a second. If we're lucky, we can essentially get a roleclaim out of the user via this power, but that might just be me talking out of my ass.

As for missions...

I haven't read any 7P setups, but with three spies amongst us, I'm inclined to agree with Snark's idea that a sole spy would want to fail M1. Odds of us lucking out and getting two spies on M1 is 1 in 7, although if one or both of them decide to pass, it's not so lucky. As Snark said, unlikely.

Just to expand Snark's example of Awesome Yet Impractical, though, if two spies fail M1, we're guaranteed an M4 clear since that requires two sabotages, which is impossible with only one spy left. If we clear M2 and M3, we win. If the last spy gets ousted, we win. Up to Eleven: Rather than a double-fail on M1, imagine all three spies getting on M2 or M3 and then failing it all at once. We win.

Anyways. AFAIK it's super-obvious that anybody would want themselves to be on a team, so if that's one of someone's biggest reasons, I'd probably be wary. For now, I guess I don't care what two players make it onto M1, since ousting M1 saboteurs is easy modo.

[trineroks]

I would think a spy would take one for the team and fail the first mission.

Sorry for not posing, I'm trying to figure out different strategies scum might utilize in this game.

[wingedocelot]

Waking up on a saturday morning to find I am Mission Leader in a war against an evil intergalactic empire! And I even get a Mission Leader hat to wear (I'll mail it to the next Mission Leader when my stint is over). Mum and Dad would be so proud of me.

Anyway, I haven't played Resistance before and I've only read through the one game that Adam H linked for us. But it seems my job here is pretty easy. Two people go on the mission and two other people get the powers. And we go in the order on the list because we know nothing yet.

Snark suggested I put myself and the next on the list on the team. I'd be happy with that. I'll also understand if it's decided I shouldn't go on the mission (which is what happened in the game I read through). Either way, I'll wait til we are all in agreement before posting the team.

And then I send the powers to the next two people on the list. I don't see it mattering who gets what power at this stage, but someone correct me if I'm wrong in that.

[New User]

This is my first Resistance game as well. As Snark said, please forgive any newbie mistakes I might make.

As far as strategy goes, I must say it's a bit hard for me to come up with anything. This is Mission 1, so we essentially know nothing so far. Snark's idea for a team and the plot powers is okay for me, as is his decision to use Spotlight on the first mission and save Eye On You for later. But if we can agree to use Spotlight and save Eye On You, then we should decide now who gets which power. Assuming there are no rejected missions (I can't honestly say how often that might happen), we know that trineroks will be the team leader of mission 3, and wam of mission 4. Let's decide which one of those we want to give Eye On You to. Of course, if we get around to mission 3 or 4 and decide we don't want the team leader to have that power in hand, we could just reject at that time, so maybe it doesn't matter after all.

Now a question about the rules. The other players might already know this, but I want to get a moderator to tell us all the real answer before we even do the first mission.

If the team leader gets two plot powers to distribute, what happens if that leader's proposal is rejected? Does the next team leader also get two plot powers? Also, if any player has a plot power given to them at any time, they can just save it forever, regardless of the mission proposal and outcome. Is this correct? For example, if trineroks gets Spotlight, he can save it and use it on missions 4, right?

[Snark]

I would think a spy would take one for the team and fail the first mission.

Sorry for not posing, I'm trying to figure out different strategies scum might utilize in this game.

Hmmm, I wonder what a spy would say if you forced them to tell the truth. I'm pretty sure it'd sound precisely like the second sentence of what trineroks just said.

Vote: trineroks

Too bad that doesn't do anything.

[Adam H]

If the team leader gets two plot powers to distribute, what happens if that leader's proposal is rejected? Does the next team leader also get two plot powers? Also, if any player has a plot power given to them at any time, they can just save it forever, regardless of the mission proposal and outcome. Is this correct? For example, if trineroks gets Spotlight, he can save it and use it on missions 4, right?

If wingedocelot's team is rejected, RaceBandit becomes the leader, but does not get any plot powers. Only the first leader of each of the five missions gets plot powers.

The "One Time" use powers can be saved through the entire game. (Opinion Maker and Take Responsibility are the two exceptions).

[RaceBandit]

Hmmm, I wonder what a spy would say if you forced them to tell the truth. I'm pretty sure it'd sound precisely like the second sentence of what trineroks just said.

I would think trine would want to know about the spies' strategies so he can figure out ways to detect and counter them. After all, if the spies can't do a thing, we'll likely have an easy time subduing the Empire.

[Snark]

My suggestion:

1. New User
2. wingedocelot - Mission Member 1
3. RaceBandit - Mission Member 2
4. Trineroks - Given In The Spotlight
5. wam - Given Keeping a Close Eye on You
6. Chickenfish
7. Snark

Trineroks uses ITS on either wingedocelot or Racebandit, doesn't matter which. Wam saves KaCEoY til M2 or M3.

Reasoning: Going in order reduces manipulation. Using ITS on the first mission guarantees either a pass or spies outing themselves.

[New User]

I have no objections to that setup. If it does indeed pass, the spy team would have to fail 3 missions out of the remaining 4, and since the fourth mission need two spies to both vote fail, I feel confident about that one. If that setup doesn't pass, then as you said, we'll have one confirmed spy and that person will never go on a mission again.

I was looking back at RaceBandit's interpretation of plot powers, and I disagree with something there:

I'll take a look at the powers. If my analysis is wrong, feel free to point out my mistake(s).

Keeping a Close Eye on You: Investigative role. Useless if spies decide to clear a mission, but with no spy chat, they haven't gotten a chance to organize who will fail what, so it's actually more useful than I made it sound. Don't underestimate it.
In the Spotlight: Not as instantaneous as Close Eye, but it's public if the mission procs, pass or fail.

I don't know what you mean by calling In the Spotlight "not as instantaneous." After having read the descriptions for both plot powers, they look identical to me except that the result of Keeping a Close Eye on You has the result PM'd to the user, and Spotlight makes the result public for all to see. That is indeed a huge difference, since the user of Keeping a Close Eye on You would then tell us the result of the investigation, and it would be up to us to decide if we should believe them.

[RaceBandit]

Basically, what I meant by "not as instantaneous" was you didn't get the results immediately. Basically, it's get a PM'd result now or a public result later.

Good news for ITS is that we got it early enough for the fail to not set us back too far. If it were saved for after a sabotage or two, its novelty would quickly melt.

[wingedocelot]

My suggestion:

1. New User
2. wingedocelot - Mission Member 1
3. RaceBandit - Mission Member 2
4. Trineroks - Given In The Spotlight
5. wam - Given Keeping a Close Eye on You
6. Chickenfish
7. Snark

Trineroks uses ITS on either wingedocelot or Racebandit, doesn't matter which. Wam saves KaCEoY til M2 or M3.

Reasoning: Going in order reduces manipulation. Using ITS on the first mission guarantees either a pass or spies outing themselves.

This sounds like a good suggestion to me. But I'll wait to post the team and send the powers until the other absentee players have chimed in with their opinions, just so everyone can contribute to the discussion.

[Chickenfish]

Reasoning: Going in order reduces manipulation. Using ITS on the first mission guarantees either a pass or spies outing themselves.

Any random choice reduces manipulation. Implying a specific order you chose isn't manipulative I don't like.
On the whole, though, I have no problem with the plan!

[wam]

I am happy with the proposed order.

I hadn't considered that you only needed to use in the spotlight to pass the first mission. So yeah I agree with using in the spotlight for that mission.

[Snark]

Reasoning: Going in order reduces manipulation. Using ITS on the first mission guarantees either a pass or spies outing themselves.

Any random choice reduces manipulation. Implying a specific order you chose isn't manipulative I don't like.
On the whole, though, I have no problem with the plan!

I've never played a game where the mod would agree to give the players random numbers in thread. And we obviously can't trust any one player to give us random numbers/players.

Please generate 4 random numbers (1-7) for us and announce them in thread. Please no repeats of numbers.

If this works, which I highly doubt that it will, each number can correspond to a person's position on the sign-up sheet. The first two numbers/people will go on the mission, the third number/player will get ITS, and the fourth will get KaCEoY.

[Chickenfish]

I was disagreeing with your statement Snark, not the method. I can't imagine we can make the mod do our bidding like that. And any random numbers (who would know if they were random) that anybody posted could also be a manipulation. My point is that as the suggester of the idea, saying "going in order avoids manipulation" ignores the fact that the order could, by coincidence, be very good for the spies and that's why they're so happy with the plan...

[Snark]

Ok, I understand what you're saying now.

But here's the beauty of us getting to use ITS on the first mission: it matters not who gets sent on the first mission. If we're using In The Spotlight, we have either a passed mission or outed spies, and this isn't dependent on whether 2 resistance, 2 spies, or 1 apiece go on the mission. Rejoice.

[Adam H]

Please generate 4 random numbers (1-7) for us and announce them in thread. Please no repeats of numbers.

Haha very funny.

Deadline will be in 48 hours, 40 minutes. But please keep in mind this is not a mafia deadline which usually signals the end of the day, this is a resistance deadline where the deadline only comes if the team leader is being stupid.

[wingedocelot]

I'm only sometimes stupid!

I've sent the following plot powers:
In the spotlight - to Trineroks
Keeping a close eye on you - to wam

And I propose:

Mission 1:
Player 1: [wingedocelot]
Player 2: [RaceBandit]

[Snark]

I've accepted that mission by PM.

@trineroks
You need to remember to use In The Spotlight on this mission by declaring it publicly in thread.
If you conveniently forget, I'm going to conveniently assume that you're a spy.

[Adam H]

Wingedocelot has indeed sent the plot powers:

Trineroks - In the spotlight
Wam - Keeping a close eye on you

In the future, the mission leader will just say publicly in-thread who the plot powers go to. Bold it so there's no confusion. Rules will be updated to make this clear.

Mission Phase:
The first team for Mission 1 has been proposed: Wingedocelot and RaceBandit. The deadline is 24 hours from this post.

Rule Reminders:

Spoiler:

If ITS or KaCEoY is used I will give a deadline extension. All players should vote accept or reject via PM (votes given in thread will be ignored). Default is accept if you are on the mission team, and reject if you are not on the mission team. Also, any spies on the mission team should specify pass or fail. Default is fail. The number of fails will be public knowledge.

You are free to talk.

[wam]

I have also accepted the mission.

I will keep keeping a close eye on you for a later mission.

[RaceBandit]

I've PM'd Adam an accept vote... assuming that this mission passes, I'm ready to see what we're really up against.

[Snark]

I've PM'd Adam an accept vote... assuming that this mission passes, I'm ready to see what we're really up against.

Same here. With ITS on a 2 person mission, it's kind of hard to argue about the optimal strategy.

[New User]

I've sent my accept vote.