War been declared (Sudan)

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War been declared (Sudan)

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:16 am UTC

Link

Sudan President Omar al-Bashir has said his main goal is now to "liberate" the people of South Sudan from its rulers following recent border clashes.

The former rebel Sudan People's Liberation Movement (SPLM) has ruled South Sudan since it seceded from Sudan in July 2011.

President Bashir described the SPLM as "insects" that needed to be eliminated.

Fighting between the two countries has now spread to another area, further adding to fears of all-out war.

South Sudan seized the Heglig oil field - generally recognised as Sudanese territory - eight days ago. On Tuesday fighting broke out north of Aweil in South Sudan, about 100 miles (160km) west of Heglig.

The South Sudanese military said 22 soldiers had been killed, with casualties on both sides.
'Disease'

Mr Bashir told a rally at his party's headquarters that the SPLM needed to be removed.

"We say that it has turned into a disease, a disease for us and for the South Sudanese citizens. The main goal should be liberation from these insects and to get rid of them once and for all, God willing."

The reference to insects is an apparent play on the SPLM's Arabic name.

He told the crowd that his message to the SPLM was: "Either we end up in Juba and take everything, or you end up in Khartoum and take everything."

The BBC's James Copnall in Khartoum says the comments sounded like a declaration of war.

President Bashir also predicted that "within a few hours you are going to listen to good news from your brothers in Heglig".

Sudan army officials made similar comments when they started a counter-attack on Friday.

After President Bashir made his comments a South Sudan minister called for negotiations. "We can only resolve this through talks with the African Union," Minister of Information, Barnaba Marial Benjamin, told Agence France-Presse.

On Tuesday international envoys to Sudan told the United Nations Security Council that both sides were "locked in the logic of war".

The current spate of fighting is the worst since South Sudan's independence last year, which followed two decades of civil war between Mr Bashir's government and the SPLM.

A Sudanese foreign ministry official said Sudan would end the occupation of Heglig "by hook or crook".

Our correspondent says civilians in both Sudan and South Sudan are volunteering to join paramilitary forces.

But he says others are involved in protest movements, saying they do not want this war against people who were recently their fellow citizens. They feel bad leadership has led them to the verge of all-out war.

A non-Sudanese source close to the border talks told the BBC that during years of discussions before its independence, South Sudan never claimed Heglig as part of its territory.

In a separate development, the world's newest country became a member of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund on Wednesday.


North Sudan more or less going to war with the South....
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Re: War been declared (Sudan)

Postby sardia » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:30 am UTC

That's rare that a country even bothers to declare war. Most of the time they just declare a military response in self defense, and start attacking.
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Re: War been declared (Sudan)

Postby Weeks » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:55 am UTC

What is it with "North" countries not liking their "South" counterparts?
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Re: War been declared (Sudan)

Postby sourmìlk » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:51 am UTC

The phrase you're looking for is "war were declared".

Also, I don't like war, so this is sad news. Although maybe it's necessary, in which case it's acceptable, albeit still sad news. Although seeing as the goal of the war doesn't just seem to be to resolve the border conflicts via force but actually displace an entire government, it sounds like just sad news again.
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Re: War been declared (Sudan)

Postby Zamfir » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:45 am UTC

Weeks wrote:What is it with "North" countries not liking their "South" coufnterparts?
needing such separate names is a symptom of strained relations. When everything is fine, there's no need to make sharp divisions. It's not just north-south, there was for example also a war between west and east pakistan, and western and eastern europe spend decades watching each other through gunsights across barbed wire.
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Re: War been declared (Sudan)

Postby addams » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:01 am UTC

Fuck. Really?

"But he says others are involved in protest movements, saying they do not want this war against people who were recently their fellow citizens. They feel bad leadership has led them to the verge of all-out war."


In all armed conflicts there are persons that remain sane. They tend to be unarmed. Protesting against war is difficult business.

The people that want to be One Peaceful Nation are up against passionate, self righteous, armed and dangerous groups. What can the world do to help the sane?

Yeah. They may have a point. Leadership is important. I was very resistant to that idea. I held to the belief that the individual was the primary agent. So; I had to see and listen to Nelson Days in the UK. After five days of that, I was repeating the mantra, too. "Leadership is Important."

What can the world of computer nerds and nobodies do to help a people that are so far away who have the hands of brother raised against brother? Talk reason to them?
Anyone speak Sudanese?
Share the oil field! War will waste the lives of the people and the oil will burn into the night. Maybe, a quick review of how easy it is to set an oil well on fire and how fricking hard it is to put one out.
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Re: War been declared (Sudan)

Postby Dobblesworth » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:54 am UTC

Come on Dakotas and Carolinas, get at it!
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Re: War been declared (Sudan)

Postby addams » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:47 pm UTC

Did you ever have a post, just, dissapear?

O.K. I am going to start all over.

First I looked into Sudan History. 800 years B.C.E.! AHHH! That is a lot of History.

Fast forward a little to 2011 July. A Peaceful Seperation. Nice and Easy. What?! Did they get pregnant? Eight months later they want to fight about it.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/su.html
Huh? I read English. I still need a translator. "Make it as simple as possible, but, not simpler."
http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/1360
The man was a funny guy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-17672727
This one says that it was not a Peaceful Separation. What to believe?
Oil fields. The fricking oil fields.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-17672727
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heglig_oil_field
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heglig
The Abyei Area? Nope. Seems to be right next door. eww. That is far inland.

This is from way back in 2003. The Title is so interesting.
http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/regions/a ... ocess.aspx

Just some photos of oil rigs burning. Those things are so easy to set on fire. They spontaneously combustion. I have heard of some VIP coming on site wearing his Leisure Suit Larry, the static from him moving around set the place off. No one wanted to make Trump unhappy. That is why Trump looks the way he does. (Not true. Maybe.)
http://www.google.com/search?um=1&hl=en ... 4QTJ29C_BA

I know that is not 'real' spontaneous combustion.

Those people are fighting for the right to sell oil to Chevron? It that what I read? Could it be true? Chevron, just, waits until there is a winner and buys the oil from that party. Party? Sounds fun. Not. Parties are loud and confusing and a lot like war. Sometimes the food is not as good.
(Those prepackaged things are better than food with date rape drugs. Those give me a headache.)

http://www.sudanupdate.org/REPORTS/Oil/08cn.html
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/sudan1103/10.htm

Who does this war belong to? It looks like it might be Chevron's war.


The oil fields. Who wants to become an expert on oil fields?

Oh! Oh! Have any of you been around that equipment? It is amazing. Right? Plumbers tools for BIG pipes.
Have you ever heard of swarming pipes?
http://www.google.com/search?um=1&hl=en ... mSz8reRIdE
Walking on pipe will set it off. I did it once. It was like skying. I don't like to sky.
Worse than swarming Africanized Bees? Nope. But; Not much more fun and just as deadly, if done wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee

Sudan is far away.
If, they set their oil fields on fire it will mess up the summer for a lot of people east of them. Yuck. Oil smoke, oil film, oil soot, oil this and oil that.
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Re: War been declared (Sudan)

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:12 pm UTC

President Bashir described the SPLM as "insects" that needed to be eliminated.


"Insects"? What sort of insects? Cockroaches by any chance?
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Re: War been declared (Sudan)

Postby addams » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:33 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:
President Bashir described the SPLM as "insects" that needed to be eliminated.


"Insects"? What sort of insects? Cockroaches by any chance?

Yeah. I like a good bug, myself. But, in that climate insect is most likely not a complement.

It is a very bad sign when one person uses language that dehumanizes an other person.

I spent minutes reading about Sudan today. If, I were Queen of the World, then, I would call Chevron. Queen of the World means that there would be some power behind what I had to say. Chevron is a player that is pretending to not be a player.

Not Nice Chevron!
Now I want to know HOW rich are those oil fields? Geology. Is it on the internet?
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Re: War been declared (Sudan)

Postby buddy431 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:11 pm UTC

South Sudan is withdrawing from Heglig, one of the major antagonizing actions towards the North. I don't think either side really wants war - they both realize how fragile their position is, especially the South.
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Re: War been declared (Sudan)

Postby addams » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:46 pm UTC

buddy431 wrote:South Sudan is withdrawing from Heglig, one of the major antagonizing actions towards the North. I don't think either side really wants war - they both realize how fragile their position is, especially the South.


Yeah! A step in the right direction!
Let there be celebration in the homes of the people that get to go home!
A moment of silence for the 22 we know will not be coming home would show human understanding. No war=Good Idea. Still, 22 people will not be going home.

That guy from the North is a bit of a jerk. I hope that the world does all that it can to solve the money issues for these folks. They have a valuable recourse. They know it. Chevron knows it. We all know it.

Now; How rich are those oil field? How can this liquid gold be used to help these two nations live in splendor and peace?

Oh. That guy in the North with his, 'Our side is rougher and tougher', than, your side needs to take a lesson in good manners. Who is whispering in his ear?

Don't talk to or about people like that! Those are your country men. Those are your brothers and sisters!

All out war has been missed by a little. It seems that the South may have made a bad move. They are unmoving. Credit where credit is due, please. It also seems that they are asking for international community to help fix the details.

O.K. International Community! Figure out a fair way to have Chevron pay the peoples of this land for the oil that it is selling. All the people need enough! Black gold. The people could end up with more money than they know what to do with.

They could spend some of their off time studying all that history.
800 Years B.C.E. That is a lot of history.
I wonder if anything, really, happened.

Northern California has history that old. The way we know is by counting the rings on the trees. That and a few rocks with sweet little fossils in them.

People? Did Northern California have people then?

One time a little girl looked up at me and asked, "Did they have shoes when you were little?" It was a good question. Funny question, but, good.

I know. I know. His story does not begin until he gets there.

It is late, again.
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Re: War been declared (Sudan)

Postby Djehutynakht » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:48 pm UTC

I'm not suprised. That secession went by smoothly. Too smoothly....

Meh. Just another basketcase in the very long line of international incidents. Let's hope some foreign entity or other will bring them to their senses. I don't think the West wants more oil disruption...
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Re: War been declared (Sudan)

Postby addams » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:10 am UTC

"U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon described the invasion of Heglig as “an infringement on the sovereignty of Sudan and a clearly illegal act.” He also called on Sudan to stop bombarding South Sudanese territory and withdraw from other contested areas.

“The last thing the people of these two countries need is another war — a war that could claim countless lives, destroy hope and ruin the prospects of peace and stability and prosperity of all Sudanese people,” Ban said at a news conference Thursday."

This guy Ban Ki-moon has the authority. Let's listen to him.
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Re: War been declared (Sudan)

Postby Djehutynakht » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:44 am UTC

addams wrote:"U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon described the invasion of Heglig as “an infringement on the sovereignty of Sudan and a clearly illegal act.” He also called on Sudan to stop bombarding South Sudanese territory and withdraw from other contested areas.

“The last thing the people of these two countries need is another war — a war that could claim countless lives, destroy hope and ruin the prospects of peace and stability and prosperity of all Sudanese people,” Ban said at a news conference Thursday."

This guy Ban Ki-moon has the authority. Let's listen to him.


Much authority, little power, I'm afraid.
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Re: War been declared (Sudan)

Postby sourmìlk » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:45 am UTC

addams wrote:People? Did Northern California have people then?

Yes. Crater Lake (which is in Oregon, but that's pretty damn close), was formed 7700 years ago, and there's an Indigenous American religion based around the eruption that formed crater lake.
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Re: War been declared (Sudan)

Postby addams » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:10 pm UTC

sourmìlk wrote:
addams wrote:People? Did Northern California have people then?

Yes. Crater Lake (which is in Oregon, but that's pretty damn close), was formed 7700 years ago, and there's an Indigenous American religion based around the eruption that formed crater lake.

Really?
What is that Religion like?
Many people have a Spiritual experience at the Crater. It seems to be a visual thing. It seems to be not restricted to the vision of the physical eyes.

Spoiler:
Did these indigenous Americans see the eruption or, just, the lake? The Lake, all by its self, is impressive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crater_Lak ... gnificance
Very impressive.



http://oe.oregonexplorer.info/craterlake/history.html
Crater Lake was a place of mystery to the Klamath Indians. The Klamath Indians must have lived in the region as early as 7,700 years ago, because artifacts such as obsidian tools, spear throwers, and moccasins have been found beneath the Mazama ash layers to the north and east of Crater Lake. The Klamath Indians describe the catastropic eruption of Mount Mazama and the creation of Crater Lake in one of their legends. Their legend of a raging war between two great volcanoes, Mount Mazama and Mount Shasta, parallels the geological history of Crater Lake.


Oh.
The Europeans had legends of men rampaging across the land having elevated themselves to Godlike status.
The Americans had legends of mountains rampaging across the land. The people elevated them to Godlike status.

Is that Right? History is hard for me.

How is Sudan?
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