xkcd

by **natraj** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:12 pm UTC

i love corset piercings but given their high likelihood of rejection don't want to deal with them either however if you know anyone who does piercings you can get super awesome corsets done with play piercing needles that are only meant to be temporary and wear them for the span of a night or so for special events, and that is awesome too. i mean, then, of course, it has the [benefit|drawback] of you have to go through the pain of getting a dozen or more needles stuck into you every time you want it in, but!

... it looks wicked cool.

alternately you can ribbonlace surgical staples for mostly the same temporary look with slightly less pain than needles.

by **Virtual_Aardvark** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:38 pm UTC

I have a tendency to scar so repeatedly redoing a corset like that would probably result in a less than pleasant appearance. And since I really love how my back looks... Play piercing (like knifeplay and anything else with *any* chance of scarring) is reserved for special occasions with people who I have a very strong relationship with and only can happen on designated spots on my body. But if somebody actually wanted to do a corset on me my rules would probably come into question super fast.

by **Brace** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:45 am UTC

I woke up this morning with a very tantalizing thought. That the dichotomy between reason and emotion is bullshit, and likewise with the dichotomy between mind and body. That most people think and feel and move in a holistic and organic fashion that fuses all of these things. That the reason I'm on a different wavelength from other people and that I feel like a corpse is because I've bought into these dualisms and tried to perpetuate them inside myself; that they're a holdover from the days of repression. So I let a signal through, and now I've spent the entire day realizing there was another, better reason I had that part of myself locked down. My nerves are shot. I can't think straight. I want to tear this body apart but I know there's nothing underneath it. I want to take my knife and just start whittling away at the larger bones of my face. I think by typing this I'm putting it at arms length again though, so that's good.

by **Aaeriele** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:58 am UTC

FreyasSpirit wrote:
Spoiler:
I'm incredibly late to the party on this one, but in my eyes this isn't misogyny at all, it's misandry. Women fought for their right to act masculine through feminism and without feminism, it would still be unacceptable. It's not acceptable for men to act feminine because men have never had a fight for their rights.

Spoiler:

by **FreyasSpirit** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:52 pm UTC

Brace wrote:I woke up this morning with a very tantalizing thought. That the dichotomy between reason and emotion is bullshit, and likewise with the dichotomy between mind and body. That most people think and feel and move in a holistic and organic fashion that fuses all of these things. That the reason I'm on a different wavelength from other people and that I feel like a corpse is because I've bought into these dualisms and tried to perpetuate them inside myself; that they're a holdover from the days of repression. So I let a signal through, and now I've spent the entire day realizing there was another, better reason I had that part of myself locked down. My nerves are shot. I can't think straight. I want to tear this body apart but I know there's nothing underneath it. I want to take my knife and just start whittling away at the larger bones of my face. I think by typing this I'm putting it at arms length again though, so that's good.

*hug*

Aaeriele wrote:
FreyasSpirit wrote:
Spoiler:
I'm incredibly late to the party on this one, but in my eyes this isn't misogyny at all, it's misandry. Women fought for their right to act masculine through feminism and without feminism, it would still be unacceptable. It's not acceptable for men to act feminine because men have never had a fight for their rights.

Spoiler:
The argument for it being misogyny is that it's "logical" for women to act like men because it's the ideal, whereas it's "illogical" and thus socially frowned upon for men to act like women because women are subpar, and thus why would anyone ever want to "lower themselves" in that fashion.

Thus it would be misogyny because women are being viewed as subpar to men.

Spoiler:

by **Noc** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:13 pm UTC

Spoiler:

by **Brace** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:18 pm UTC

Transmisogyny is the word I've encountered most for the concept. Also @Freyas: It doesn't so much shift victim status to women as it does to feminine people, which is a much cleaner and more accurate and relevant distinction than male/female in this context.

by **Black Dynamite** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:57 am UTC

I found out the other day that my best friend is trans, too. But she hasn't specifically told me. When I came out to her a few months ago she said she already knew about me (I wasn't really hiding it from her, but I wanted her to know for certain how I felt). She hasn't explicitly stated it, but we have talked about how she has been feeling a bunch the last few days. Makes me happy. Although we're going in the opposite direction, I'm happy to have someone to talk to that will better understand what I'm talking about. More importantly, I will certainly be there to support her.

We went thrift store shopping yesterday and it was awesome. I searched the women's clothing sections extensively trying to figure out what kind of things I like and what sizes I am. I gathered all of my confidence to be able to try on lots of clothes in the dressing room and I was so nervous. I could tell there we're a few people staring and what not, but I ignored them as best as I could. I'm happy I could conquer my fear in order to do that. I found two skirts that fit me well, one of which is completely awesome, and a pair of "slightly curved" pants.

Meh, problem.

Spoiler:

by **XJ_0** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:53 am UTC

Spoiler:

by **Black Dynamite** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:45 am UTC

Spoiler:

I get ranty when I'm tired. EMOTIONS.

by **XJ_0** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:24 am UTC

Spoiler:

Feel free to have emotions. ^_^

by **Monika** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:37 pm UTC

Black Dynamite wrote:
Spoiler:
Now I really just need to come out to my mom. Tuesday I talk to my therapist, and I am going to talk seriously about transferring to a transgender specific therapist. We have talked about it before almost hypothetically, but I want to do it for certain now. Maybe I'll be on hormones by summer!

But. I need to tell my mom. Which seems so much more intimidating since I decided I want and need to. It seems so much more difficult as well because what I think her opinion of me is. She still only sees me as a teen, not as an adult. I don't think she sees me as capable of making my own decisions or of being independent. I'm afraid she will only laugh at my feelings, doubt me, and say I don't know what I want. Maybe she will even say something awful like I only want to be a girl because I fail at being a man.

How has anyone ever done this?

How do you plan to do the coming out? You could write a letter and give it to her to read. In that letter you could write also about the things you fear. E.g. write down that you are certain and that you do not want her to doubt and question you.

by **Black Dynamite** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:50 am UTC

XJ_0 wrote:The betrayal thought is weird to me. People change over time. Some more dramatically than others. But why would I want to hold onto image of a depressed person? Why would that be so hard to let go? ... As a parent, I would see risks for you and want to keep you safe. I'd wonder if you could see them too. It would be my own struggle to step back and let you find your own way.

...
I'm sorry if I'm not being very helpful. I'm speaking more from personal experience than I am from giving advice. =/

Feel free to have emotions. ^_^

I guess I only over-think the bad possibilities. I'm overwhelmed with feeling like everything will explode and I don't take time to look at it from a different perspective. I haven't extensively considered my family being supportive of me, only shocked or indifferent. Maybe they will see it as a positive change from being mopey me into happy me.

You are helping

thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience.

Monika wrote:How do you plan to do the coming out?

I have no plan at all, really. I discussed it with my therapist and, though not much was decided, it was said I could come out to my mom in a session. Which sounds good because it'd be safe. Sounds scary because once it's planned I have to go through with it. Which come also be good, 'cause it forces me to get it done. But scary as all hell.

Otherwise, I don't know how else I would do it. I could try writing everything down in a letter and giving it to her. Which sounds easy because then I can say everything without being nervous and stumbling all over myself. But it also sounds scary, for some reason I can't explain why. Anxiety, uncertainty?

Maybe I could write a letter and give it to her in session or some variation of that.

by **poxic** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:56 am UTC

Not a bad idea. Also an idea: write a letter ahead of time and read it to her during a session. You get to plan what you say *and* you get to say it in a safe place. Actually saying it out loud will likely be more powerful, for both of you, than having her read it for herself. (Also also: discuss this option with your therapist.)

<3

by **Black Dynamite** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:20 am UTC

I think that is a very good idea. I do think saying it is more powerful, for some reason I am apprehensive about only having her read it and seeing what happens.

Thank you for the suggestions and ideas

I will plan to discuss all of this with my guy on Tuesday.

by **Bassoon** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:00 am UTC

I'm going to have to tell my parents I'm gay, and that is scary.

by **sambot5** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:23 am UTC

[deleted for IRL safety reasons]

by **Bassoon** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:04 am UTC

I mailed my letter two days ago. The most important part of it was not seeing/hearing their initial reaction. I didn't want to see that. They'll be getting the letter tomorrow, I project, which might be a bit of a problem, because they're coming down to my university to see a concert I'm a part of. So, yeah. Awkward times to ensue tomorrow, probably.

by **redearth1210** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:06 am UTC

It is awkward, but a letter is good.

Today I game my mother a letter telling her I was transgender, and before she opened it ran as fast as I could into my school.

She still loves me. Now I just need to tell my father. ^.^

by **Amie** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:13 am UTC

Congratulations to everyone who came out. This is the sort of thing that will never fail to make me squee no matter how many times I read about it

Spoilered for silly:

Spoiler:

by **flickering_candle** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:15 pm UTC

I had an interesting conversation with a coworker the other night. He came in wearing a bright pink shirt whose collar was peeking out from under a khaki-colored crew neck shirt he was wearing over it. I complimented him on the shirt, and later that night we had an extended conversation about (as males) wearing pink in particular and other colors that society typically genders as feminine. He said that he really likes the color pink, but that when he first started at our job and wore the pink shirt with nothing over it, he got odd looks and a startled comment about "how brave he was," which made him feel uncomfortable enough that he began only wearing it with other shirts over it. So we talked about that and misogyny's role and had a good overall conversation about it.

First thing that stood out was that he grew up in the Philippines, and he said that pink was also viewed as a feminine color there. Most of what I've read on the assignment of colors such as pink to particular genders has suggested that it is largely cultural, and that in particular the pink/blue dichotomy (for female/male) is largely a (fairly recent) Western phenomenon. Now, the Philippines have had a fairly strong Western influence in the form of Spain's colonies there and the US taking it over after the Spanish-American war, and it has been a close ally of the US since it was granted independence following WWII, so I wasn't too surprised by that. It did lead me to wonder, though, what sort of gendered colors are common in non-westernized cultures, if any.

Second thing that I noticed was just how pervasive and STRONG the internalized opposition to males wearing (even just) colors typically associated with femininity was, when we talked about wearing feminine-colored clothing about in public. I will wear pink around my house without a problem, but grow uneasy venturing in public. Even for my coworker, the reaction of people was strong enough that he covered up most of his shirt, although he continued to wear it occasionally. Even knowing that nothing bad will happen, aside from a few looks or comments perhaps (for gendered colors alone, anyway), it is hard to shake that uneasiness.

by **Monika** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:04 pm UTC

I saw a TV documentary that in Germany blue has been the boy color since the the Middle Age, it was a spiritual / protecting color (protecting the important boy children against evil mythical creatures or spirits). Pink for girls came much later (they didn't say exactly when). So I was pretty surprised when I read that in the US pink was for boys and blue for girls until the 1920s or so.

by **sambot5** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:36 am UTC

Monika wrote:I saw a TV documentary that in Germany blue has been the boy color since the the Middle Age, it was a spiritual / protecting color (protecting the important boy children against evil mythical creatures or spirits). Pink for girls came much later (they didn't say exactly when). So I was pretty surprised when I read that in the US pink was for boys and blue for girls until the 1920s or so.

I remember reading somewhere that pink was considered a feminine color in Europe because the Nazis required homosexuals to wear a pink triangle (in the same way that Jewish people had to wear a yellow star).

In other news, is anyone participating in the National Day of Silence?

by **Vaniver** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:15 am UTC

sambot5 wrote:In other news, is anyone participating in the National Day of Silence?

I'm giving a talk, so that would be really awkward.

by **Black Dynamite** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:09 am UTC

sambot5 wrote:In other news, is anyone participating in the National Day of Silence?

I am. But I was told it only lasts for as long as the school day. Which is easy, because Fridays are always half days. It almost seems as though my school is getting off easy on it, ha.

Amie wrote:All of your stories make me feel like living in this world is not too bad as long as people like you exist. Thank you.

I feel this way every time I'm browsing this thread.

I'm happy you exist, too.

Spoiler:

by **lanicita** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:17 am UTC

It's school vacation week here in Massachusetts, so I feel sad for all the students who would like to participate in Day of Silence but can't use it to spread the word at their schools. (I will be at work so I can't be silent, as I have to answer phones and stuff.)

by **sambot5** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:33 am UTC

[deleted for IRL safety reasons]

by **Brace** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:09 pm UTC

At the same time, the "everyone is exactly the same" shtick is kind of old. Especially since the "the same" everyone is purported to be is always the normative standard. EG "we're all white on the inside!" It may be pretty much true in many cases; there may be a lot of gay people, for example, who are exactly the same as straight people aside from being attracted to men; but by treating this as a mantra for gay people or gay rights, you're leaving a lot of people behind. Black history month exists because school taught history does a poor job of covering black history. It's an issue of inequality of access to means of public expression, and it's also an issue of there actually being substantive differences between blacks and whites. For instance, I didn't even know until very recently that skin and hair care needs were different between the two groups. There's also the fact that due to slavery, segregation, intergenerational poverty, institutionalized racism and also just plain tendency to affiliate with people similar to yourself, there are plenty of communities in the US and other countries which are predominantly black, to the point that I think it might be reasonable to say there is an american black ethnic culture as well as a black race. Obviously they don't overlap entirely, and in fact maybe not even mostly at this point in history. As social and economic pressures dissipate, integration does happen. If you want a more historical example you can look at chinatowns, which have diminished in size hugely over time, and which represent many of the same social forces at work.

by **Роберт** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:53 pm UTC

Spoilered for OT:

Spoiler:

by **Shro** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:48 pm UTC

by **Роберт** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:56 pm UTC

Shro wrote:
Spoiler:
522173_217593785015831_108761159232428_359291_1208433875_n.jpeg

I hadn't seen that before but that's pretty funny.

I assume there is a link between homophobia and misogyny...

by **Vaniver** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:53 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:I assume there is a link between homophobia and misogyny...

Possibly, but possibly not. As a piece of counter evidence,

Spoiler:

by **Роберт** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:48 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:
Роберт wrote:I assume there is a link between homophobia and misogyny...
Possibly, but possibly not. As a piece of counter evidence,
Spoiler:
The rate of misogyny among gays that I know is comparable to the rate among straights that I know. It has a somewhat different flavor- there's no sexual frustration there, but there's also no sexual appreciation.

Not quite counter evidence, there.

Spoiler:

Basically, I assume people who are bigoted in one area are more likely to be bigoted in other areas. Anyway, I found that image funny, and thought there might actually be a link. I was too lazy to google it so I hoped leaving a hint would make someone else to my research for me. Ah, well.

by **Brace** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:34 am UTC

tbh I'm pretty sure the type of gay men who are misogynistic are also disproportionately homophobic, just only towards effeminate gay men.

by **Vaniver** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:53 am UTC

Brace wrote:tbh I'm pretty sure the type of gay men who are misogynistic are also disproportionately homophobic, just only towards effeminate gay men.

It seems weird to call a reaction to effeminacy but not homosexuality homophobia, though. Doesn't it?

by **Brace** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:48 am UTC

I suppose so. There are so many forms of discrimination that occur at the intersection between multiple different things that it's hard to keep labels straight.

by **SecondTalon** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:06 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:Spoilered for OT:
Spoiler:
My main problem with Black History Month is that February is the shortest month. I mean, if it was a regular month I could feel okay about it, even though it feels a lot like "yo-yo" and "girls yo-yo". There's regular History(regular = European white) and Black History. There's regular yo-yos and legos etc(regular = masculine ) and girl yo-yos, legos, etc.

I could probably take it for a good-hearted attempt to stop shafting black people. Unfortunately every time it feels like they shoved black history into the shortest month possible to get it out of the way.

Spoiler:

by **Brace** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:36 pm UTC

I'm seriously considering selling my good computer for parts and shifting back to my old computer. I thought that I might be able to find a good AM2+ motherboard for cheap to make it less of a downgrade, since the only real issue with my old computer is that one of the DDR2 sockets is bad on the current motherboard, and I actually found this out by buying matched memory. But I'm not really happy with my current work situation at all, and I think I might honestly sell my current computer for parts anyway just because of that. I'd rather lose my computer than my motorcycle, and I'd rather not have a computer than be required to work at my current job.

by **Monika** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:43 pm UTC

Are you still at the job to which you walked without a jacket in a snowstorm and it got worse or is it a different job?

by **Brace** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:04 pm UTC

Same job. HR are nicer and pay more attention, so it's not like it's gotten worse along that specific gradient, but they phased out the position I used to work and also changed the nature of the cashier position at one of the stadiums to where it now requires 100% more interaction with coworkers; basically they got rid of every little shelter for my sanity.

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