Werewolf - Game Over: The Dark Lord Rises

[t1mm01994]

DAT NIGHT
Somehow, all werewolves died. Now Mafia is all that's left, and I think I've pointed out who they are.
Vote: Adam H

[t1mm01994]

EBWOP: Oh, and possibly some sort of vampire. Or it was just a mafioso that used his teeth.. Who knows. Mafia goes first! (I'm quite fine with a JSO lynch too)

[Misnomer]

Correction: there are 12 of you left alive, not 13. Yay death ^_^

[wam]

Vote:adam H

His information on Lataro was far to specific for a town cop to know. Making me think he is a mafia role cop.

[Adam H]

Sigh... damn you Snark, damn you!

Well now that things are looking up I don't really care about being lynched, especially if that means t1mm gets lynched next. He is the scummiest thing I've ever seen. He even knows how many werewolves there are!

Wam's vote (and webby's suspicion) is obviously completely unjustified. but I suppose that's just my perspective... If it makes you feel any better, my result differed slightly from Lataro's actual role. I didn't see that his one-shot could be used during the day, nor did I see that he was town.

Now I'm very suspicious of wam and webby. I think webby has night chat with wam and convinced his scummates not to target me because I would be an easy lynch. Or something like that. My suspicions will be entirely revoked if someone could explain why a scum is allowed to have a more powerful role than a townie. But anyways, my role isn't even that good. From last night's investigation, I can't tell at all if my target is town or scum, and the role is such that I think it would be bad for me to say.

[greenlover]

Seven total complete sentences have been written so far today, and there are already two votes. Really, guys? Ever heard the word "bandwagoning"? AdamH may very well be scum, but that does not give you justification to simply ignore everything that happened last night in the name of "Oh, he was scummy yesterday, so lets lynch him now!" (looking at you, wam). Please, at least re-evaluate the situation taking into account the alignments of those who have now died before you go lynching people.

ninja'd by adam - well, what do you know. Adam has more than doubled the amount of content today, without voting. Who would have guessed it would be possible? [/sarcasm]

[t1mm01994]

I had a theory last day (Adam + Snark + JSO scumteam), and one part has been confirmed.. I think that's enough for the moment. As far as the megadeth goes, I think we should thank Lataro, as I feel like he's had a good planting.

[Adam H]

I can't really understand you through your incoherency, but I think you are attributing the many dead werewolves to Lataro, which wouldn't make sense to me.

[t1mm01994]

Krong died to Snark dying, of course. As a random comment: Wth @ "damn you Snark, damn you!"?
Ah well. You're right though, it would not make sense to contribute the deaths to Lataro. But, you know, that does not change the fact that you're scum. I even used a contraction to make it more coherent. Let's start off where we stopped yesterday, shall we? (Why didn't you just kill me? I know you could...)

I have to give you a pat on the back for the set-up trap. From the moment you accused me, there's nothing i could have done to avoid suspicion, and you just proved it.
Had I kept on doing it, you'd accused me of still setting up scum vs town (this happened)
Had I switched to your version, you'd accuse me of flipflopping without any defense on either side. So yeah, nice trap. Congratulations.

I have to say that I also love your "I've shown all his arguments to be bull" act.. Original.

It's a fact that you jokingly attacked JSO and not made a vote out of it.

That's just 100% absurdity. I cannot believe these desperate attempts are working.

Original quote exactly below. Explain to me how that is not joking, attacking, but not making a vote out of it.

You're right, it's not a strong point. Vote someone for being suspicious of someone else? Suspicious.

Vote: Angua

Lolololol. You're voting someone for being suspicious of someone else for being suspicious of someone else! I really want to vote you for being suspicious of someone else for being suspicious of someone else for being suspicious of someone else, just for the fun of it. But I won't.

I'm an investigator. An "amateur sleuth", to be precise. I investigated Lataro last night and found that he has an arson ability, and is a miller.

So, you claim to, as town, be able to see that someone is a miller. But that would defeat the concept of miller, so your claim and his can't both be true. But his is true. So yours isn't --> You're scum Q.E.D.

Oh, and this time truly for funzies:
[quote="Adam H]In the last scumteam I was on (Amy's surprise game)[/quote]
Already pushed away all memories of Resistance 4.0? I feel unloved.

[CaptainFinglass]

@wam - Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but how do you know exactly how much information the town cop vs the mafia cop are receiving this game? Either it's listed specifically somewhere and I don't see it (not likely, but possible), there's an exact we-do-not-touch-this sort of standard for information (I have no idea about roles like that on this forum, which is why I'm confused), or you know something far more than you're telling. Clarify please?

[t1mm01994]

If I may here, as I've said this in my last post: If a town cop were able to see who is a miller, the miller would be pointless. We know for fact that Lataro was a miller, and that Adam knew this, and Lataro was town, so Adam is a not-town role cop.

[ForAllOfThis]

Yes! I was right about both Krong and Snark =D! Working scumdar ftw! Anyway..

Time for me to claim. I'm a pirate-ninja, town. I'm allowed to search one person each night for 'treasure' and I'm told what they were carrying. There is also a chance that certain night actions will fail against me (although I will not say what those actions are or the chance they will fail).

Last night I targetted Adam and found he had documents referring to 'investigations' and 'the family'. We know from the flavour that the family is the Mafia, so it seems likely that adam is a mafia rolecop. The only other possibility I can think of is that one of his investigations was successful and he found one of the family. A lack of claim from him makes me believe it's the former though as trading a townie for confirmed scum is always worth it.

Night 1 I found bandages and medicines on a player. I believe that person is the town doctor, so I don't want to reveal their identity and put a big confirmed town target on their head (it's far better they stay unknown to scum). It's completely up to them if they wish to protect me tonight, it should create some nice wine for mafia and the vampire. Speaking of which, clearly there is still a vampire (see the no-reflection comment in flavour). Given we have a mafia faction, I think we can assume that that player is a serial killer.

Let's try not to rush the lynch on Adam (don't put him at L-1 just yet) before we get the chance to look at who was pro-actively defending Snark yesterday and get some discussion going, but I feel fairly confident that he is scum.

Vote: Adam H

[greenlover]

If I may here, as I've said this in my last post: If a town cop were able to see who is a miller, the miller would be pointless. We know for fact that Lataro was a miller, and that Adam knew this, and Lataro was town, so Adam is a not-town role cop.

That... doesn't make any sense, given that there are multiple scum factions. Besides, doesn't being a miller mean that your alignment appears to be mafia, not your role? So it makes sense that Adam, being a rolecop, would not be affected by something that only effects alignment cops.

Honestly, at this point, its clear to me that Tim has it in for Adam, and Adam has it in for Tim. I have no intention of lynching either one of them until more evidence comes up.

Ninja'd - annnd there we have some more evidence. I'll wait for Adam's defense before deciding anything, but for now this is looking like a pretty open and shut case.

[t1mm01994]

But a rolecop as town? It's unconventional, from what I've seen. Quite frankly, just get it over with by killing Adam. That'd satisfy me, and after that, we need to lynch JSO because Adam pulled the same thing he did in Resistance. In Resistance, he jokingly refused the team because "BF would fail the mission lols", and BF and he turned out to be both scum. I'm quite certain that the same read applies here.

[ForAllOfThis]

EBWOP: Oh and completely forgot to mention, Adam survived the night as an outted 'town rolecop'. Any outted investigation abilities are always the first to die if town aligned. Yea, definitely not believing Adam is town when considered with what I found on him last night.

I think finglass is more likely scum-buddies with Adam than JSO is. A gut feeling more than anything else. I don't expect we'll see more than three on the mafia team so if it's either of them that's that wrapped up.

I think our vampire is either you T1mm (for your comment, the vampire could be a mafia using his teeth and generally ignoring the reflection thing in the flavour), or Boomfrog (who I got a very indepedent vibe from yesterday).

[Adam H]

@t1mm: sigh... do I really have to respond to all of that?

I cursed Snark for being scum, because now I will get lynched.

If I ever attack someone for having an anti-town opinion, it would be flabbergastingly stupid for me to attack them for then changing their minds. I would have loooved if you changed your mind and done the smart thing by convincing scum to attack each other. I don't expect you to believe me though, I guess.

OK, if you really think I attacked JSO then perception is reality. His post made me laugh out loud and I couldn't help but point it out.

I'm not a cop, I'm a rolecop. I've never seen the role on this forum before, so I don't know whether it's usually a mafia role or not. All I know is that there has been a town role cop at least once (this game). Again, I don't see if someone is town or scum, just their role. That's why I could see lataro's miller. I'm sure if an alignment cop targetted lataro, they wouldn't see miller. It's ridiculous to assume that the powers in this game are conventional after some of the ones we've seen.

I can only assume that I survived last night because the scum thought the other scum would kill me or I'd be healed. And anyways, my power really is not very useful if the scum has powers like tracker, protector, and lover, while town has powers like arson. You guys hear "cop" and immediately assume it's some awesome power role that's worth saving.

FAOT's investigation is the nail in my coffin. Maybe I was targetted by mafia or something, i have no idea. Maybe I'm a bit of a miller myself. Or maybe he's lying to get me killed. I dunno. But anyways, I can read the writing in the sand. Just promise me when I come back town you'll lynch t1mm!!!!!

[matt96]

Based on this page, role cops can be of either alignment, but it also mentions that a mafia role cop is a somewhat common role, I have a feeling that based on werewolves having the odd tracker, grave robber, redirector powers and that the one mafia we got had a protection, I am guessing that werewolves had the strange and not very indicative scum powers, and that mafia probably have more traditional powers, and from the townie deaths, I'd say town is a mixed bag to prevent knowing powers being an effective way to find scum, and I have no idea about where the third faction (dusk Druids or whatever) fits in here, but that is just all what happens when I try to show why I think role cop might be a mafia power, but I want people to be cautious about forming opinions based on powers, but I do agree with t1mm that knowing Lataro was a miller doesn't make sense for a town cop of any kind, as it makes the role cop an alignment cop too, but it would also make some sense that if Adam H isn't mafia, there is the possibility of being one of the dusk druids trying to get NK'd or something like that, now all I succeded in doing is confusing myself but I think it is highly likely that Adam H is not town. But I want to hear what others think about these possibilities before I vote for Adam H, but if I don't get a good enough reason within about 24 hours, that is where my vote is going to go.

[ahammel]

Perhaps Lataro was responsible for Angua's death, but the other two are accounted for, Tim. Is it just me, or did we get less cause-of-death flavour this morning? Perhaps that's what DBC's ability to "influence flavour" meant.

Unless anybody wants to claim any dirt on FAOT, I think the lynch today has to be Adam. FAOT has been leaning townie/neutral for me so far, so I see no reason to disbelieve the claim. Neither pirates nor ninjas fit especially well with the flavour, I suppose, but no worse than anarchists, soldiers and whatever the hell a "dusk druid" is.

@Adam: if you turn up town, why do you want us to lynch tim and not, say, FAOT? In that scenario, he's the one who turned up incriminating results on a townie. That sounds a lot more scummy to me than Tim's sins to date (which consist mostly of discussing scum strategy and fighting with you).

[Adam H]

Scum doesn't benefit from making stuff up to get a townie lynched who would probably get lynched anyways. FAOT is almost certainly telling the truth (or maybe is a dusk druid trying to get NKed). Why he got those results, I don't know.

[BoomFrog]

I agree with matt, seeing the powers that the werewolves had it seems extremely likely that the mafia also have odd-ball powers. However, I disagree with T1mm that rolecop can't be town, and a (sane) rolecop should have been told of miller, that doesn't seem unreasonable. Also, t1mm's dismissal of the vampire is pretty bizarre since I think it's pretty clear that there is a vampire. I think Lataro was our only vig and the three kills are from werewolf, mafia, and vampire. But there were only two deaths so someone probably got roleblocked or doctored.

However, considering that snark was mafia and lovers with a werewolf I think it's pretty clear that both factions would want to avoid lynching snark which means that the people who wanted to lynch t1mm are pretty scummy looking right now. Top of the list is obviously AdamH still. He quick resignation to "looking scummy" seems like scum who thought thinks they were caught. I suspect one of the people who voted him already is a scumbuddy driving the bus. Anyway you cut it though Adam does look pretty scummy.

I won't vote yet as there is still plenty of time to discuss other things.

[t1mm01994]

I /think/ I can stop the fighting with Adam now. T was nice dude, twas nice. When you come back town, we'll lynch me, and all that because I'm that much more of a criminal than FAOT in this case. All's good now.

So uhm, yeah. The start of day was me being quite happy on 4 anti-town deaths, one of which helps my theory a lot. So, on to seriousness now!
There appearantly was a vampire, and he was at webby's, and then he left. If anyone has a watcher at webby's, that'd be awesome, but I think that'd be claimed now.

Clearly, they would need to lynch again, and lynch well...

I dunno, but I'd take this for a LYLO phrase if it weren't for the fact that 4 anti-town just died last night. Strange stuff, and all that.
Sad thing is, apart from Adam and JSO I've got very little atm. If someone would have some idea of where to search for a vampire, that'd be very welcome.

[wam]

2 things

1 tim how do you know we got all the werewolves?

2 Adam H what on earth do you mean by webbys suspicion? As far as I cant tell he hasn't posted today?

[t1mm01994]

1: I do not. Just figured that in a 20 people game a 4/4 would be a bit big.. Actually, it very well may be, considering there's lovers in there. I take that back, there's probably another werewolf alive. Just 1.

[ForAllOfThis]

If you think there is 4 werewolves because of lovers, you must also assume there are 4 mafia to keep it balanced between the two factions. Plus the vampire SK means we had 9 scum D1 plus indepedent faction of dusk druids, pushing it over to town making less than the majority to start with? Although its possible as there are enough different factions, I think it's really unlikely. 3/3/1 seems a lot more likely to me, plus at least one dusk druid (although we could have more) puts us at a minimum of 12/8 to start with (although I think there is at least one more druid, so just above half). I'm sure the lovers was put in here to balance the fact that we barely had a majority to start with and scum/indies could have hijacked our lynch if they wished on D2 if we mislynched and were really unlucky on kills during the night.

[t1mm01994]

hmm. Fair enough.

[CaptainFinglass]

So uhm, yeah. The start of day was me being quite happy on 4 anti-town deaths, one of which helps my theory a lot. So, on to seriousness now!
There appearantly was a vampire, and he was at webby's, and then he left. If anyone has a watcher at webby's, that'd be awesome, but I think that'd be claimed now.

Are you saying the vampire would claim (having watched webby) or are you asking if there was some second watcher who might have seen the vampire? It isn't really clear to me from your post, but it sounds like the former and that seems quite improbable.

[t1mm01994]

Well there's a difference between "watching" and "watching"... One is in-flavour, the other is in-game. I'm hoping for the second, but not minding the first either.

[Adam H]

2 Adam H what on earth do you mean by webbys suspicion? As far as I cant tell he hasn't posted today?

Yeah, it's from yesterday.

The cop seems extremely detailed and sounds like a scum rolecop, a town rolecop who gets that much information seems a bit powerful.

Which sounds an awful lot like:

His information on Lataro was far to specific for a town cop to know. Making me think he is a mafia role cop.

[BoomFrog]

DaBigCheez has been killed. He was the Dusk Druid, Third Party. He had the ability to influence mod-flavour. He will obtain a win if all other members of his faction are now night-killed.

Pretty clear we had at least two duskdruids to start with, so even a minimum of 3/3/2/1 scum (one is the vampire) that's 9 scum/indies at least.

Will we be told if a faction is eliminated?

[Misnomer]

Will we be told if a faction is eliminated?

No Comment

[JesseScottOwen]

Sorry I've been sort of out of it this game, but where does all of this JSO talk come from? The lurking? I'll do another readthrough and try to post more content. Sorry 'bout that.

[ForAllOfThis]

It's a fact that you jokingly attacked JSO and not made a vote out of it.

I believe this is the reason your under suspiscion from T1mm, JSO. Apparently Adam did this in an old game of resistance to a fellow scum buddy, and attacks wihout votes can be scum buddies trying to distance themselves from one another.

[t1mm01994]

Yup, that's it.

[Adam H]

Apparently Adam did this in an old game of resistance to a fellow scum buddy.

Where did you hear this? From t1mm? In night chat?

Am I just paranoid?

[t1mm01994]

But a rolecop as town? It's unconventional, from what I've seen. Quite frankly, just get it over with by killing Adam. That'd satisfy me, and after that, we need to lynch JSO because Adam pulled the same thing he did in Resistance. In Resistance, he jokingly refused the team because "BF would fail the mission lols", and BF and he turned out to be both scum. I'm quite certain that the same read applies here.

[Adam H]

Oh whoops, I didn't see that. Well then. It's easy for me to say that it's different, but what's the point. This won't be applicable tomorrow when you see that JSO is clearly not my scummate since I don't have scummates.

[CaptainFinglass]

Well there's a difference between "watching" and "watching"... One is in-flavour, the other is in-game. I'm hoping for the second, but not minding the first either.

Sorry, but help the newbie out here: What precisely is the difference?

[webby]

2 Adam H what on earth do you mean by webbys suspicion? As far as I cant tell he hasn't posted today?

Yeah, it's from yesterday.

The cop seems extremely detailed and sounds like a scum rolecop, a town rolecop who gets that much information seems a bit powerful.

Which sounds an awful lot like:

His information on Lataro was far to specific for a town cop to know. Making me think he is a mafia role cop.

I don't see why it's scummy? I also don't see why you would think I'm scummy based on that when if I belonged to either scumteam and you were town, I could easily have voted for you based on that justification rather than vote Snark as I did and lose one of the members of my team. (I know that people are going to say this is wine, but it's not a 'scum wouldn't do this', it's an 'I don't see why it's more scummy than the alternative course of action'.)

Btw Adam, did I miss it, or have you not claimed your cop result from today?

[t1mm01994]

@Cptn: In-flavour is the one stated in the text there, which might very well mean nothing. In-game is the role Watcher, which allows you to see who visits one person on the next night. We now that the vampire looked at webby, but I'm quite sure he didn't watch him.

[Adam H]

But anyways, my role isn't even that good. From last night's investigation, I can't tell at all if my target is town or scum, and the role is such that I think it would be bad for me to say.