Resistance 5 - Spies Win! (3-1)

[trineroks]

Accepting the team proposal.

[trineroks]

I've accepted that mission by PM.

@trineroks
You need to remember to use In The Spotlight on this mission by declaring it publicly in thread.
If you conveniently forget, I'm going to conveniently assume that you're a spy.

Thanks for doubting me Snark :]

[trineroks]

And I will use In The Spotlight on RaceBandit

[Snark]

I've accepted that mission by PM.

@trineroks
You need to remember to use In The Spotlight on this mission by declaring it publicly in thread.
If you conveniently forget, I'm going to conveniently assume that you're a spy.

Thanks for doubting me Snark :]

Sorry for being pushy.

And I will use In The Spotlight on RaceBandit

Racebandit, huh?
FoS: trineroks and Racebandit


....So incredibly joking.

[Adam H]

In the Spotlight has been used on RaceBandit. Remember, if the team is rejected, it will be as if ITS was never used and Trineroks will be free to use it again however and whenever he wants.

The deadline is now 24 hours from when ITS was used, so that's Tuesday at 3:48pm CST. But I'll start earlier if I get the results.

[Snark]

In The Spotlight doesn't reset ACCEPT and REJECT for people not on the mission, right?

Better safe than sorry.

[Adam H]

No, ITS and KaCEoY don't reset the votes, nor the pass/fail. You can change your vote or disposition (pass/fail) at any time before the deadline though.

[Adam H]

Mission 1: Success!

Votes:
New User - Accept
wingedocelot - Accept
RaceBandit - Accept
Trineroks - Accept
wam - Accept
Chickenfish - Accept
Snark - Accept

The team [wingedocelot, RaceBandit] for Mission 1 was accepted (7-0).

Mission Results:
PASS: 2
FAIL: 0

ITS results:
RaceBandit: PASS

Success!

The team was accepted unanimously, and Wingedocelot and RaceBandit sent out their scouts. After several days the scouts return with the results of the mission. They found the Empire’s army a day’s march from the nearby Cloud River. The army consists of over ten thousand men, and roughly one quarter of them are mounted. Most of the infantry and cavalry appear to be heavily armored and equipped. The Empire is sending dozens of wooden siege towers and trebuchets, as well as an enormous battering ram.

Wingedocelot and RaceBandit lay out the plan they’ve come up with. First, Cloud River should be dammed upstream from the army. The enemy will ford what they think is a small creek, and when the bulk of their heavily armored and mounted troops are wading through the river, we will break the dam and drown much of the enemy.

The two generals have other ideas as well, but let’s wait to see how the river damming mission goes.

RaceBandit is the current mission leader for Mission 2, which requires 3 players. The deadline to propose a team is 4 days from this post. If a team is not proposed by RaceBandit by the deadline, the proposal will count as rejected. To propose a team, just make a post like this, in bold:

Mission 2:
Player 1: X
Player 2: Y
Player 3: Z

Two random plot powers are given to RaceBandit to redistribute. They are “Keeping a Close Eye on You” and “Opinion Maker”. The following is a reminder of how to use the plot powers:

Spoiler:

The mission leader needs to redistribute both plot powers before proposing a team. To distribute plot powers, just declare the player you are giving each plot power to in-thread, in bold. The plot powers can be given to the same player or different players, however, the mission leader cannot give a plot power to themselves. The plot powers can be used at any time the receiver chooses; the powers do not have to be used for this mission (though they can be).

Keeping a Close Eye on You
The player who receives this plot power may select another player on the current proposed mission team, whose mission disposition (PASS/FAIL) will then be PMed to the player who used this plot power, when the mission results are revealed (if the mission is accepted). This use of this power and its target is announced by the player in-thread (probably during the mission phase), and the target will be given the opportunity to change their mission disposition - the deadline will be extended 24 hours from the use of this plot power. If the mission team is rejected, it will be as if “Keeping a Close Eye on You” was never used.

Opinion Maker
The player who receives this plot power must vote publicly on mission proposals for the rest of the game. The deadline for the rest of the players to vote will be extended 24 hours from each use of this plot power, as needed.

Plot Powers in Play:
Keeping a Close Eye on You - Wam

[Snark]

1 mission down, 2 to go. Would have preferred 2 fails on that mission, but that would have made it too easy.

Suggestion:

1. New User - Is given Opinion maker and uses it on someone not going on M2.
2. wingedocelot
3. RaceBandit - Mission Member 1
4. Trineroks - Mission Member 2
5. wam - Uses KaCEoY on a mission member
6. Chickenfish - Mission Member 3
7. Snark - Is given KaCEoY and uses it on a different mission member

Goes in order for Mission Members, skipping wam since he holds a plot power to be used on this mission.
Opinion Maker - Not sure how useful this is, but it's obviously better to be used sooner than later. Unless we get in an odd situation later where we need to know a specific person's accept/reject status. If enough people think this is likely, we can have New User hold onto the power instead of using it prior to M2.

I'm not sure if this is optimal, but I really like the idea of using both KaCEoY's in this mission. The earlier that we can get wins or learn information about each other (who might be framing who), the better it is for resistance.

[New User]

First Mission: Easy win. I am feeling confident about this game! Unfortunately, things are about to get complicated.

There's no soft way to say this: I suspect trineroks of being a spy.

I would think a spy would take one for the team and fail the first mission.

Sorry for not posing, I'm trying to figure out different strategies scum might utilize in this game.

This is his first post in this game. It's only two sentences long. I see the first sentence as a strategy hint to his fellow spies. To clarify, since spy chat isn't allowed in this game, by stating this he is essentially trying to say to his fellow spies, "Go ahead and fail the first mission if we have the opportunity." The second sentence in this post is him making an excuse, and as Snark pointed out, it's not a very good one. I didn't accuse trineroks before Mission 1 passed because we all agreed that we had an optimal planned strategy, and by giving In The Spotlight to trineroks, such an accusation wouldn't have helped, and in fact would have only served to help the spy team by opening up such a discussion and allowing us all to cast doubts on our Mission 1 strategy. I might have done something different if trineroks got Keeping A Close Eye On You, but since he didn't, I decided to hold my tongue (keyboard?) until after Mission 1 passed.

On a totally separate note, it looks from Snark's most recent post that he and I have a different interpretation of how Opinion Maker is used. Snark, you seem to imply that I would receive the Opinion Maker card and then decide to either "use it" sooner or later. It's my interpretation of that card that if I were to receive it, my own votes to accept/reject missions (starting with Mission 2) will now be public for the rest of the game.

Moderator, can you please clarify the use of Opinion Maker in respect to my above paragraph?

[Snark]

Pretty sure New User is right. My mistake.

I share his suspicion of trineroks.

[Adam H]

Snark, you seem to imply that I would receive the Opinion Maker card and then decide to either "use it" sooner or later. It's my interpretation of that card that if I were to receive it, my own votes to accept/reject missions (starting with Mission 2) will now be public for the rest of the game.

Moderator, can you please clarify the use of Opinion Maker in respect to my above paragraph?

You're correct. Whoever receives OM from RaceBandit is forced to vote in-thread rather than through PM for the entire game.

[Snark]

Updated Suggestion:

1. New User
2. wingedocelot
3. RaceBandit - Mission Member 1, Gives/uses Opinion Maker to/on someone not going on M2.
4. Trineroks - Mission Member 2
5. wam - Uses KaCEoY on a mission member
6. Chickenfish - Mission Member 3
7. Snark - Is given KaCEoY and uses it on a different mission member

[RaceBandit]

Dammit. If only this were Sparta so I could say I liked those odds.

Anyways. I was actually thinking of using Opinion Maker on trineroks, given Snark's FoS on him. What's keeping me from shouting out "LEEROY JENKINS" and going through with it is that I do not know whether or not Opinion Maker would make the target's pass/fail vote public.

Think this clarification would be a game-changer?

[Snark]

It wouldn't make pass/fail public. Just accept/reject.

[Snark]

I (or someone else if you don't trust me either) can use KaCEoY on trineroks. Seems like the easiest way to keep him in check. Although giving him Opinion Maker couldn't hurt either. Though he'll likely accept a mission with himself on it, which is why I suggested giving it to someone not going on M2. Still, OM will remain active for M3, M4, and M5 as well so it might not be a huge waste to give it to someone going on M2. I'm talking in circles. Someone else say what you think.

Using a KaCEoY on trine would leave Racebandit or Chickenfish for wam to target.

[RaceBandit]

I don't think I've seen any real complaints about your strategy, but given the OM scenario I raised, I'll give the others a chance to speak before I distribute the powers and propose M2.

[Snark]

I don't think I've seen any real complaints about your strategy, but given the OM scenario I raised, I'll give the others a chance to speak before I distribute the powers and propose M2.

Definitely give everyone some time to talk about it. I don't want to be accused of rushing you.

[Adam H]

I do not know whether or not Opinion Maker would make the target's pass/fail vote public.

Just Accept/Reject.

Also, for clarity's sake, don't think of the the pass/fail as a vote. It's an action. You VOTE on a team, and you PASS/FAIL a mission.

[New User]

I'd just like to say that I think having trineroks on a mission right now might not be a good idea. Of course, there isn't any real evidence that he is a spy. Just suspicion, but since there are two of us that suspect it, it's safe to say that it is actual suspicious behavior and not just my imagination. Also, if he is a spy, sending trineroks on a mission and using Keeping A Close Eye On You on him (used by Snark or anyone else) isn't acceptable, since he would probably go ahead and vote "fail" anyway since he's already been accused of being a spy.

I'm not going to suggest mission personnel right now, but don't take that to mean that I passively agree with Snark's latest proposal. I'm going to wait since it seem that Snark, RaceBandit, and I have been the only ones to talk strategy so far, and I've just noticed that wam hasn't given much input at all this game.

[Snark]

I don't think it's a good idea to blacklist a player based on suspicions.

Spies know each other and are going to protest if their buddies are being blacklisted.
Spies know who resistance are and are going to be cool with blacklisting resistance.
Resistance falls in the middle, not knowing whether they're accusing an actual spy or a fellow resistance member.

That being said, suspicions favor spies.

I think we should keep an eye on trineroks, by using KaCEoY, pun intended, but not keep him from going on missions based solely on suspicion.

[trineroks]

Snark, it upsets me how you're attacking me so fiercely. Really now, all you have against me is my first post D1 :[.

[Snark]

Did you even read my most recent post? I don't think suggesting using KaCEoY on you can be counted as "attacking" you "so fiercely".

Perhaps you meant New User? Who wanted to keep you from going on missions altogether?

[trineroks]

Tis almost flattering how yall are trying to use every plot power on me xD.

And I was not aware spies don't have day chat... I thought the host said they do after mission 1 or something.

[wingedocelot]

I'm pretty ok with the current plan because I think it does much the same as the first: either we pass or a spy gets outed.

My only concerns are:
1. If there is a fail (or 2 or 3, fingers crossed ) we won't know for sure who the spies are because we can't trust the people using the powers. There are 5 people involved in this mission now who we can get a read on - 3 on the mission, two using powers on them. The spies within that 5 can create a lot of confusing wine for us, particularly if they work together. But then that's the game, trying to sort the truth from the wine. It's just going to be difficult for New User and I because we don't get as much information from this mission as everyone else does.

2. We are using a lot of the powers in these early missions and they may be more important for the later missions when we have confirmed or semi-confirmed resistance to use them.

[Snark]

2. We are using a lot of the powers in these early missions and they may be more important for the later missions when we have confirmed or semi-confirmed resistance to use them.

As I said before: the earlier we get information, the better. There is going to be very little chance of getting confirmed resistance in this game before it's over. Nothing stops a spy from passing every mission they go on. The only way to get confirmed resistance is to 1. Find all 3 of the spies (at which point the game is won anyways) or 2. To prove that the strictly best strategy for Person A would have been to fail a certain mission if they were a spy yet somehow we know for certain that they passed said mission (and we have to prove they're not stupid enough to miss the fact that their best strategy was to fail).

In short, confirmed resistance are going to be near impossible to establish. Confirmed spies are a little easier to find though. And we find them using tools such as KaCEoY. And the earlier it's used, the better.

[RaceBandit]

Spies know each other and are going to protest if their buddies are being blacklisted.

Wouldn't this lead to scumtells and the sort?

[Snark]

Spies know each other and are going to protest if their buddies are being blacklisted.

Wouldn't this lead to scumtells and the sort?

One would hope so.

[wam]

Sorry I haven't posted much I have not really had anything to add strategy wise. I too am suspicous of Trinerokes, but more due to their reaction.

Snark, it upsets me how you're attacking me so fiercely. Really now, all you have against me is my first post D1 :[.

Which just looks like a spy going please don't look at me Im innocent honestly. That and some of his other posts where a bit overly defensive.

I think we should still send him on the mission with Kaceoy. As even if he fails it we will then have a known spy which I think will be very useful. As with using the othe Kaceoy we should know who failed it. Assuming we trust the people recieving the results.

Therefore I am happy with the mission and to use my Kaceoy on this mission.

[New User]

OK, I agree that suggesting to "blacklist" trineroks might be a little too much, since it's based on suspicion. I don't really have any better suggestion for mission personnel, but I'd like to add that if we do go with Snark's suggestion, please consider using Eye On You on Chickenfish, simply because he will be team leader in the future and RaceBandit presumably will not be team leader again, so it seems more useful to get a reading on someone who will be team leader.

[Snark]

...if we do go with Snark's suggestion, please consider using Eye On You on Chickenfish, simply because he will be team leader in the future and RaceBandit presumably will not be team leader again, so it seems more useful to get a reading on someone who will be team leader.

Makes sense. I agree with it.

[Adam H]

Change of plans, everyone!

I will be gone all day on Saturday and Sunday. So here's what we'll do. I'd prefer for the team to be proposed before I leave on Friday (in about 26 hours from this post). If so, I'll announce the beginning of the Mission Phase. If the mission isn't announced in time, then you guys will have to handle it yourselves. The Mission Phase begins as soon as RaceBandit announces the team in bold. The deadline to use plot powers will be 24 hours after that (whoever gets Opinion Maker must say Accept/Reject in thread, don't forget), and the deadline to send in accept/reject and pass/fail will be 24 hours after that.

If you have any questions then please ask now.

[RaceBandit]

I'll take that as a sign to get crackin'. I'd been hoping to get some feedback from Chickenfish before proposing the team, but that doesn't seem like it's going to be possible.

I'd have slapped some flavor text on this post, but I wasn't sure of what kind of dam the Resistance would want to make or how they'd even get the resources within a day. It does look grim for us IMO.
Eh, if I were to complain about the time too much, it could be argued that the Empire crushed us while we were discussing how to handle M2. Again, an IMBA empire mechanic that thankfully got cut from the gameplay.

Anyways. Keeping a Close Eye on You: Snark
Opinion Maker: Wingedocelot

Mission Member 1: RaceBandit
Mission Member 2: Trineroks
Mission Member 3: Chickenfish

[Snark]

Confirming my accept vote (which I'll send by PM) and also:

Use Keeping a Close Eye on You on trineroks

[Adam H]

Mission Phase:
The first team for Mission 2 has been proposed: RaceBandit, Trineroks, and Chickenfish. The deadline is 24 hours from this post.

Plot Powers:
wam: Keeping a Close Eye on You
Snark: Keeping a Close Eye on You
wingedocelot: Opinion Maker

Rule Reminders:

Spoiler:

When Opinion Maker and/or KaCEoY is used I will give a deadline extension. All players (including mission leader) should vote accept or reject via PM (votes given in thread will be ignored except for wingedocelot). Default is accept if you are on the mission team, and reject if you are not on the mission team. Also, any spies on the mission team should specify pass or fail. Default is fail. The number of fails will be public knowledge.

You are free to talk.

[wam]

Use Kaceoy on Racebandit

I have pmmed my acceptance as well.

[Snark]

...if we do go with Snark's suggestion, please consider using Eye On You on Chickenfish, simply because he will be team leader in the future and RaceBandit presumably will not be team leader again, so it seems more useful to get a reading on someone who will be team leader.

Makes sense. I agree with it.

Hey wam, did you read this? I guess it's your decision, but I thought this made sense.

Did you make a conscious decision not to do what New User and I suggested?

[wam]

...if we do go with Snark's suggestion, please consider using Eye On You on Chickenfish, simply because he will be team leader in the future and RaceBandit presumably will not be team leader again, so it seems more useful to get a reading on someone who will be team leader.

Makes sense. I agree with it.

Hey wam, did you read this? I guess it's your decision, but I thought this made sense.

Did you make a conscious decision not to do what New User and I suggested?

Nope been very busy at work, and playing 5 games. Does it really matter though? as we will know the number of pass/fails and know what racebandit and trinerokes did.

Also

mod can I change who I use the plot powers on?

[Adam H]

I'll allow plot powers to be retracted and used on a different player if it's done in a timely manner. If you try to abuse this, I'll be annoyed.

[Snark]

Well wam just went offline so I doubt it will be done in a timely manner, if at all.

But I guess it doesn't matter too much. Indirect information about CF's pass/fail status will be gained given our direct info about RaceBandit and trineroks.