The nature of sex and sexual orientation.

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Re: The nature of sex and sexual orientation.

Postby The Great Hippo » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:15 pm UTC

Puppyclaws wrote:So the reason gay men are not in general attracted to people with vaginas is that we have secret underlying psychological problems with females. Oh, please, tell me more.
Purely out of curiosity, would you ever find yourself attracted to someone who presented as woman but was physically male?

Also, when we say 'physically <blank>', are we talking about biologically (as in proper number of X-Y chromosomes), or just the shape of the genitalia? I assume the latter, since you're probably not going to change your level of attraction based on a DNA test.

...unless that's your thing.
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Re: The nature of sex and sexual orientation.

Postby Kewangji » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:32 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:You know, I can't for the life of me remember the name of the short story, but it's about a cure for cancer being discovered that has the strange side effect of switching your sex. Completely reversible. The drug completely changes the face of society as three generations of people go by and acceptance of gender bending becomes normalized. It was a very interesting read.

Neil Gaiman's Changes, I believe.
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Re: The nature of sex and sexual orientation.

Postby setzer777 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:46 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:
Puppyclaws wrote:So the reason gay men are not in general attracted to people with vaginas is that we have secret underlying psychological problems with females. Oh, please, tell me more.
Purely out of curiosity, would you ever find yourself attracted to someone who presented as woman but was physically male?

Also, when we say 'physically <blank>', are we talking about biologically (as in proper number of X-Y chromosomes), or just the shape of the genitalia? I assume the latter, since you're probably not going to change your level of attraction based on a DNA test.

...unless that's your thing.


I think caring about presentation and genitals can make sense. Your attraction to someone can be dependent both on directly observed attributes (appearance, speech, etc.) as well as the hypothetical prospect of having your preferred form of sexual intercourse with them (there's also the aspect of what someone looks like naked vs clothed). For example, if I was sexually attracted to a woman and then discovered that she had a medical condition rendering her incapable of vaginal intercourse, that would probably reduce my attraction to her.
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Re: The nature of sex and sexual orientation.

Postby Puppyclaws » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:47 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:Purely out of curiosity, would you ever find yourself attracted to someone who presented as woman but was physically male?

Also, when we say 'physically <blank>', are we talking about biologically (as in proper number of X-Y chromosomes), or just the shape of the genitalia? I assume the latter, since you're probably not going to change your level of attraction based on a DNA test.

...unless that's your thing.


People who present as female but are physically male throw my brain for a loop. Physical attraction is possible, but the fact that they do not identify with the sex I prefer makes me doubt it could work: I am specifically interested in them as a male, but in fact they do not regard themselves as one, and so I respect that in fact they are not one, but that also means my interest in them dissipates. Generally speaking, though, this situation only comes up when I interpret somebody as male and then am informed that they interpret themselves as female.

And yes. When I say physically male I mean possessing male genitalia. I try to avoid "biological" or "birth" because that sort of language can be argumentative (I would not be surprised to learn some people would find my usage of 'physically' here a point of argument also)-- but also because that is really not what I mean.
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Re: The nature of sex and sexual orientation.

Postby Роберт » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:08 pm UTC

I think setzer777 is on point. A lot of people who are not transphobic but have a fairly common type of male preference will find themselves less attracted to someone if they discover the person does not have a typical penis. It has nothing to do with trans, really.

Similar for vaginas.

Attraction is complicated. I found reproduction ability is linked with attraction for me. When I found out about some cis women being infertile, they became less attractive to me. Trans women would also be infertile in the sense that a cis man could not have kids with them.
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Re: The nature of sex and sexual orientation.

Postby setzer777 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:38 pm UTC

There certainly is a lot of variation when it comes to attraction. I actually think infertility would be a turn-on for me - it would remove that fear in the back of my mind of unwanted pregnancy.
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Re: The nature of sex and sexual orientation.

Postby Роберт » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:57 pm UTC

setzer777 wrote:There certainly is a lot of variation when it comes to attraction. I actually think infertility would be a turn-on for me - it would remove that fear in the back of my mind of unwanted pregnancy.

I've heard pregnant (single) women complain about how a lot more guys will hit on them because they're already pregnant so they're temporarily "infertile" from the guys perspective.

So yes, causes for attraction very a lot. For better or worse, people make a lot of assumptions. (You present as male and pass, therefore I assume you have a penis. Even though I'm somewhat trans aware now, and am aware of other possibilities, I still make that type of assumption.) The assumptions may be about things that are linked to attraction. When we learn our assumptions are false, that may change our attraction.

I think it's safe to say that if a cis man says he's straight, it's not clear how he feels about certain things. Is he attracted to Australian women? Maybe. Is he attracted to fertile women? Maybe. Is he attracted to trans women? Maybe.
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