Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - Town wins!

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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby DaBigCheez » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:52 am UTC

Time to see if I can live to D2 in one of my games :P

Truthfully, cj, you should really read through the Rules and Noob Guide thread if you haven't already, since you seem to have some pretty serious misconceptions about how mafia works. It almost always is in town's best interest to get more information out in the open, the main exceptions being when it'd put a powerful information-gathering role at risk (i.e. cops claiming too early and dying before they can get useful results). But creating tons of wine and refusing to explain your actions is not a townie thing to do, and trying to be seen as scummy isn't a townie thing to do either. To take another stab at explaining this - if everyone in the game just said "I'm voting X", someone wound up lynched and the next day began, we'd have practically nothing to go on - with the arguable exception of dethy (which this isn't), Mafia isn't a game of pure logic, it's a game of psychology and reading people. A better plan is to have everyone list as much of their reasoning as possible when making a vote - it gives more chances for scum to slip up, and if you're a townie there's a better chance you'll be exonerated by legitimate reasoning, as opposed to having no real way to defend yourself if you wind up on multiple townie lynches.

Also, to reiterate what others have mentioned, the game isn't won by having yourself survive until the end of the game (as a townie, at least), it's won by having someone who's town survive to the end. This doesn't mean you should sacrifice yourself at the drop of a hat - after all, you're 100% sure you're town, and you're not certain of anyone else - but it also means that clamming up and being as unhelpful as possible, for fear of being seen as a powerful enough townie contributor to justify getting nightkilled, isn't going to help. After all, the worst that could happen by contributing more is that you get nightkilled instead of someone else - but if we assume they would have contributed the same regardless, it's strictly better for town than having you be contentless for fear of attracting a NK, since the average content-per-townie remains higher *and* you got to contribute all the content you did. A win-win!

Also, JSO - unlike on the rest of the forums, "lurk moar" is not the proper solution here. Lurking is bad and should be stamped out with extreme prejudice - the correct solution is "put some more thought into your posts, and don't be deliberately unhelpful and winey".

Now that I've ranted about that for a couple paragraphs, I can go back and read the thread in more detail to start actually scumhunting rather than just getting distracted by lecturing a new player on how to behave :P
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby JesseScottOwen » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:33 am UTC

Thanks guys. I know that lurking is a bad thing. I'm fully capable of explaining what you guys have already done in detail. But, no matter what, I'm always going to go for the joke. :)

I really was just trying to steer this thread away from cjquines crap, as we've heard enough of it. As far as scumhunting goes, if CJ's playing style drastically changes tomorrow (or if he even makes sense), we can probably assume that his scum buddies straightened him out a bit. If he does that before tomorrow, maybe he's capable of actually contributing. If he doesn't change a bit, he's either town, jester, or SK.

My only other theory is that he's Lataro in disguise.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby ahammel » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:36 am UTC

Some thoughts:

I have a feeling that the scum are lurking or active-lurking. I have townie feeling from Tim, on account of he was willing to take a leap with his vote on matt. Vieto gains town points for the same reason. KrO2 has been helpfully active, so he's in my 'town' column for now.

Webby has been a bit lurky, but I think that's not entirely unusual. Wam and mpolo have mostly limited their contributions to rolespec, game mechanics and expressions of confusion as to who might be mafia. Mpolo has the excuse of a broken computer, so I'll let that slide for today (I've been lurky for similar reasons). Matt96 has posted a ton of kitchen-sink rolespec, all of which I find fairly unlikely, and has not joined in the scumhunting except to countervote. Eculc posted one of those helpful summaries of everybody's posts, but his conclusion was "FOS at tim, unsure about everybody else" (which, I guess, is fair enough).

I will ignore cjquines unitl he posts something less silly.

In summary and conclusion: my feeling is that the group of wam/webby/matt96/eculc contains at least one mafioso. I'll hold off voting until tomorrow morning in hopes that there will be more content and that things will be clearer to me after I get some sleep.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby Vieto » Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:02 am UTC

Snark wrote:DaBigCheez is replacing careyhammer.

Votals:
2 - matt96 (timm01994, cjquines)
1 - eculc (Vieto)
1 - cjquines (matt96)


Deadline in 33.5 hours at April 30, 8:00am EST


*cough cough*
Vieto wrote:unvote
vote cjquines

Vieto wrote:unvote


I am, or course, assuming that I am able to unvote.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby webby » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:18 pm UTC

Sorry, I really do intend to post at least once a day, but I had a particularly busy weekend. It's late here, but here are some vague thoughts and I'll hope to post more in the morning.

- I agree with the general consensus that we don't really gain any information about cjquines alignment from his posts so far. At least we get weak links to JSO (potentially saying that a scumbuddy who's acting scummy should be ignored) and KrO2. If one or both of them turn up scum, then I reckon cjquines may well be too, as I reckon most scum players would ignore a townie acting like that.

- I'm betting on Vieto being Agrajag. :P

- Tim voting for Matt seems like a Tim-like thing to do, just to get discussion started, but actually I agree that if I was to vote for anyone based on the first page of posts, it would have been Matt. The speculation about scum factions seems a bit off (Tim thinks he's going to turn out to be one of them, but I reckon it's more likely that if he is scum, he was deliberately avoiding mentioning whatever he is). The suggestion that Marvin may be nightkill immune doesn't seem particularly helpful to town given that Marvin is much more likely to be town than scum.

- Eculc was the first to make an analysis post. There wasn't really much to go off at that time, it seems vaguely reasonable even if I don't agree about Tim.


With only a day to deadline, I should probably throw out at least an initial vote now:

Vote: JesseScottOwen

You have provided zero useful content so far (if I'm generous I'll say the rolespec posts are be marginally useful). Your only real post is saying you were trying to get the thread away from cjquines, then spending an entire post talking about nothing else.

Here are Jesse's only posts:
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=83516&sk=a#p2985700
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=83516&sk=a#p2985911
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=83516&sk=a#p2988687
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=83516&sk=a#p2989032

Useful content provided will likely lead to an unvote.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby Snark » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:23 pm UTC

Votals:
2 - matt96 (timm01994, cjquines)
1 - cjquines (matt96)
1 - JesseScottOwen (webby)


Deadline in 23.5 hours at April 30, 8:00am EST
DaBigCheez wrote:Because I totally think Snark's the kind of guy who could pull off a stunt like "let teammate get vigkilled by your drone D1, to make yourself a "confirmed town" for not going against it, then pick off everyone while laughing about it."
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby mpolo » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:54 pm UTC

Time is still rather tight here. But...

I kind of understood JSO's comment to go back to lurking facetiously, but fully understand why he was called on it. We don't want lurkers, and I have unfortunately not been setting a very good example.

I am assuming that cj is either confused or a jester, so will leave him alone for now. But I really don't like the vote placed without justification.

Vieto has seemed pretty level-headed about the whole cjquines issue.

matt96 has an OMGUS vote out there, and rolespec providing dozens of rather improbable roles (could be providing false claims for scum-buddies, but that's an extreme stretch).

ahammel had a nice post about lurkiness, combined with analysis of most of the players. He assumes that it is mostly scum who are lurking. Unfortunately, that hasn't really been the case on this board recently. Active-lurking remains a serious charge and could be lynchalbe.

ecluc is at least trying to generate content. The analysis post was about as vague as this one, but it was at least an analysis post.

DBC commented on the lurker issue, but promises to be back with more.

KrO2 has been contributing in general as well. You might be able to make a weak linkage to cjquines, in that he tries to provide a key for "reading" him, but this is also a pretty tenuous link, and may just be townie play.

t1mm had a "gut feeling" vote, which isn't the worst thing in the world for day one.

Snark is extremely suspicious, popping in just to remind us to post. Like he's the mod or something.


Which leaves me not really knowing much at all. I think that KrO2, ecluc, ahammel, and Vieto are playing rather townie. Most of the rest falls into the neutral range for me. If I didn't have another day to make up my mind, I really don't know who I'd vote for. Most likely JSO, matt96 or t1mm, but I'm not comfortable at all with my read on any of them.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby wam » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:10 pm UTC

I have been lurking a bit, but Mpolo thats no readon to leave me off your analysis!!

I don't have many reads on people but here goes.

The weird thing I found about matt is his complete lack of response to tims vote for him. I agree that he hasn't posted much other than rolespec but I generally feel thats more his playstyle than anything else.

Tims vote for matt I disagreed with but there was some logic even if I disagree with it.

CJs posts were just wierd, not really sure whats going on there. Am willing to give him a day to come up with better content.

JSO has not really provided much content but I can't really say anything as I haven't either.

So based on all of the above, I have no idea who I want to be lynched and as such Im not going to put down a vote yet. I will give it a few hours and then see if anymore content is posted and then make a decision.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby matt96 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:31 pm UTC

If cjquines is really new (not just new to the mafia on this forum, but is really good, and is a jester *cough* Chickenfish in Pypokemafia *cough*) he could have seen his scum buddy make a vote, and jumped on it because he didn't know any better, I am fine right now with lynching either of them, but would prefer to get rid of cjquines because of the randomness and distractions
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby t1mm01994 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:57 pm UTC

Instead of any response to my vote, I get a quite long shot on cj apparently blindly following my vote because I'm his scumbuddy, making it fine to lynch me with no further justification. Uhm... I don't think I want to move my vote away. I think it's good.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby matt96 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:00 pm UTC

I think we should lynch cj first, and you if he turns up scum
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby wam » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:08 pm UTC

Really matt why are you pushing a cj lynch so much, when the consensus is that he is either a jester (in which case we don't want to lynch him) or just a newbie doing crazy stuff!!

You also still haven't said why you didn't react at all to tims vote for you.

so on this basis

vote matt96
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby KrO2 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:21 pm UTC

If cjquines is any kind of group scum, his scumbuddy is going to be mad. I think if he's anti-town he's probably working alone. It would be nice if I'm wrong, though, since then we've got a step up against the mafia. He's easily the scummiest player right now. I'm not voting for him because if he's a jester couldn't that be dangerous? It might be better to just ignore him if that's the case. In case anyone was wondering, I defended him earlier because I thought he might not be doing this on purpose.

Matt, suggesting that Tim and cjquines are a scum team based on that vote seems tenuous; gut feeling votes on Day 1 are not uncommon. It certainly not grounds for lynching by itself, even if CJ is scum.

People have said that scum are probably lurking. Do we have any reason to think they'd be lurking any more than scum would usually want to? I tend to worry just out of paranoia that the people leading the discussion might be scum. That said, I agree that they would prefer not having to post if they think they could get away with it, and I think ahammel is probably right about that group likely containing at least one anti-town.

I think webby's vote on JSO is interesting. Discouraging lurking is good, but voting for the lurker because of the lurking strikes me as going for the safe vote. I suppose it's good as a Day 1 first vote, though.

We've got several people to choose from who haven't posted much content, but (not counting cjquines) only matt96 has given us serious reasons to vote for him. I don't consider his vote against CJ to be too OMGUS-y, since it was a really bad vote, but the attack on Tim is totally unjustified. And it's also the only really substantive thing he's done. It's not like I'm sure or anything, but considering the amount of stuff we have from everyone and the fact that it's day 1, I think this is at least a little better than any alternative.
Vote: matt96
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby ahammel » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:26 pm UTC

OK, I've seen enough.

Vote: matt96

For, in addition to the above-mentioned reasons, jumping on the easy newb vote.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby JesseScottOwen » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:29 pm UTC

You don't have to respond every time someone votes for you, wam. Webby voted for me, and I totally see his logic. It's hard to provide content on D1. Apparently I just suck worse at it than everyone else. It's easy for scum to hide behind huge player analysis posts on D1, so content or lack thereof is a uncertain predictor of alignment.

Also, FoS at ahammel for naming 4 players and saying that at least one of them is probably scum. A seven year old could come up with those odds. I don't know if that's scummy, or just really ditzy playing.

Double Ninja'd.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby matt96 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:32 pm UTC

can someone confirm for me if I am at L-1?
I need to know.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby t1mm01994 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:35 pm UTC

Raah I see a bandwagon I do not like bandwagons raahh
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby Snark » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:37 pm UTC

Votals:
5 - matt96 (timm01994, cjquines, wam, KrO2, ahammel)
1 - cjquines (matt96)
1 - JesseScottOwen (webby)


7 to lynch before deadline. matt96 is at L-2.

Deadline in 16.5 hours on April 30, 8:00am EST
DaBigCheez wrote:Because I totally think Snark's the kind of guy who could pull off a stunt like "let teammate get vigkilled by your drone D1, to make yourself a "confirmed town" for not going against it, then pick off everyone while laughing about it."
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby wam » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:41 pm UTC

I have worked out where you are matt, but I am not going to post it as im not sure whether I should be helping you or not.

Your posts suggest that you have powers at lynch -1 so I would like to know what it is you are going to do?

unvote

Just to make sure whatever the powers matt uses are not massively unhelpful to town.

Tim

I feel this is more of a deadline is approaching and we need to pick someone bandwaggon rather than anything more worrying.

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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby matt96 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:50 pm UTC

nope, just seeing if I could be hammered to end the day, but that isn't really important right now, we need a better lynch candidate.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby KrO2 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:51 pm UTC

That implication was almost certainly intentional. Doesn't mean it's true. What it does do is imply that Matt is anti-town (whether it's true or not), so now I feel better about lynching him. Either he's lying and should be lynched or he actually does have L-1 powers, and those are probably not very townie, right? I'm not sure where on the wiki to check. This might be a case where flavor-based role speculation might actually be useful, but I can't think of anyone offhand who would get powers based on the number of people against them.
I had thought he was trying to imply he was a jester waiting to hammer himself, but of course a competent jester wouldn't have said that, so it's more likely he's just lying.

Tim, I thought you might say something like that, but he was also legitimately the second-scummiest person there, as I'm sure you'll agree.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby KrO2 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:53 pm UTC

Ninja-ed by Matt. Don't worry about the hammer in that context; cutting the day short that way would be a really scummy move if you're town, and the mafia wouldn't want that kind of attention.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby matt96 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:53 pm UTC

not a L-1 power unless you count one triggered by a vote on me at L-1.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby wam » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:56 pm UTC

Eh? Matt your now just being odd!

Ok so you say we need to find a better lynch candidate, who do you think should be lynched?
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby JesseScottOwen » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:59 pm UTC

Unless Matt is Arthur Dent, and can attempt escape at L-1. I doubt this is true, it's just flavor-cool.

Ninja'd. All day long.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby JesseScottOwen » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:59 pm UTC

Unless Matt is Arthur Dent, and can attempt escape at L-1. I doubt this is true, it's just flavor-cool.

Ninja'd. All day long.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby mpolo » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:03 pm UTC

I think he just wants to self-hammer for some reason or the other. I am not unhappy with this lynch, but just in case there are shenanigans connected with his L-1 comments, I am really content to let time run out here.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby matt96 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:05 pm UTC

I'd look at wam, KrO2, and ahammel as possible scum jumping on a bandwagon.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby ahammel » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:32 pm UTC

JesseScottOwen wrote:Also, FoS at ahammel for naming 4 players and saying that at least one of them is probably scum. A seven year old could come up with those odds. I don't know if that's scummy, or just really ditzy playing.


In my defense, I meant that I suspected those four and was waiting for further content before deciding among them. Matt obliged me.

Matt, why do you need to know if you're at L-1? If you've got a claim to make, now would be the time.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby t1mm01994 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:03 pm UTC

matt's not being strange, he's being perfectly sensible which means I'm getting the crap off this bandwagon

Unvote

not enough battery power left to explain but think and lynch someone.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby matt96 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:27 am UTC

I suppose I could dumb it down for people, if I get lynched, something happens that is bad for everyone who voted for me, if you are curious about what I am talking about, go ahead and lynch me, you'll regret it.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby Snark » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:31 am UTC

Votals:
3 - matt96 (cjquines, KrO2, ahammel)
1 - cjquines (matt96)
1 - JesseScottOwen (webby)


Deadline in 10.5 hours on April 30, 8:00am EST
DaBigCheez wrote:Because I totally think Snark's the kind of guy who could pull off a stunt like "let teammate get vigkilled by your drone D1, to make yourself a "confirmed town" for not going against it, then pick off everyone while laughing about it."
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby KrO2 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:51 am UTC

Matt, do you expect us to believe this?
We shouldn't believe this, should we?
I want to ask anyone who has played with the type of role Matt is claiming to have before. Are these generally pro-town or anti-town? And, more importantly, what are the odds that he's telling the truth?
I think it looks like he's just lying to get out of the lynch, but I've never played against this kind of thing before, so what do I know.
Matt: I don't know how much of your claim you can safely make, but the more you can the better you'll look. Maybe a role name?

Tim, do you still think he's not acting strange? Your last post looks like it's implying there's a better target, but if so I don't see who it is. I can understand trying to form a bandwagon to see who gets on it, but he's also legitimately looking scummy.

Can we get some input from people who haven't been posting?
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby matt96 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:08 am UTC

Well what I had been saying about it being bad for those who vote for and lynch me, it is only bad if I feel like holding a grudge against them, and I will tell everyone that my role is one of the characters I did role spec on, and others did role spec on, and I lied about my powers while doing the role spec, and I also put a group in my role spec that is related to my role, and put that group down as potential anti-town. Now if anyone wants to go through and figure out who I am based on that, it would be my pleasure to tell everyone who I am.
-.. . .-. .--.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby eculc » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:28 am UTC

so, after reading through the thread, from what I can understand is that Cj is either the WORST scum ever or the most mediocre jester ever. I'm tempted to lean towards the former, but that's mostly because I'd like an easy lynch D1. obviously, that's not going to happen.

Cj is setting off a MASSIVE ping on my scumdar. as well, matt is looking like possible scum. I honestly can't decide who to vote for, with all the wine everywhere, and especially with accusations of bandwagoning getting thrown about at this point.

so, either matt96 is mafia/SK (based on his last post, that's what I can come up with) or he's completely BSing us *again*, and Cj is either mafia or a jester (jesterbomb maybe?). I'm going to hold my vote until I can be reasonably sure that town won't wind up dead from this.
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
For comparison, that means that if the cabbage guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender filled up his cart with lettuce instead, it would be about a quarter of a lethal dose.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby matt96 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:41 am UTC

I said related to, not part of, so go ahead, try to lynch me. Should I try to avoid getting lynched? Why bother? What's the point? Nothing is worth getting involved in.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby ahammel » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:43 am UTC

Oooh! I like riddles!

You're claiming Marvin. You speculated that Sirius Cybernetics was the mafia. Why Marvin would have a vengence kill is beyond me, but my role isn't obvious from a flavour perspecitve either, so fine. You also seem to be saying that you can choose to kill any or all of the people who voted for you. That's ridiculously overpowered for mafia, but I'm willing to believe it in a townie.

So the question is, do we believe it? And why the riddles?

Ninja'd by a more explicit claim.
I also answer to 'Alex'
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby matt96 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:45 am UTC

If I get lynched, it will be clear what I meant by bad for the people who voted for me.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby matt96 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:55 am UTC

EBWOP:
Let's just say that someone who votes for me is likely to find a vote on them the next day because of my power.
Also, congratulations to ahammel for correctly figuring out my riddle, because, if I remember right, direct claiming makes one lose their vote for the day.
-.. . .-. .--.
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Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to Mafia - D1: Introductions

Postby matt96 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:01 am UTC

EBWOP of my EBWOP
just realized the losing vote was avengers mafia, my mistake, but there are anti-mass claim devices in this game, so I am still justified in my riddle/puzzle
-.. . .-. .--.
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