Avatar: The Last Hairbender & Legend of Korra

[Joeldi]

You guys should stop postulating on these non-nonsensical possibilities, and should just read the comic that's out that shows some interesting post TLA conflict. What you're posing doesn't fit with anything.

Yes I've read the damn Promise. It starts with

Spoiler:

Zuko asking Aang to kill him

and Part 1 ends with

Spoiler:

Ozai maybe manipulating Zuko into doing something probably evil

I'm not saying that's what I expect to happen, and I'm certainly not saying that it's what I want to happen, but I do think that it's something that could potentially happen IF something terrible happened to Zuko that drove him to do something that would look to Aang as if he'd turned evil.

[Izawwlgood]

Spoiler:

Because there's a statue of Zuko in republic city commemorating his accomplishments. Zuko is a cofounder of Republic City, and Aang is a respected and revered Avatar. I think that pretty much eliminates any hypothetical 'Amon is Zuko's spirit enraged at Avatars' possibilities.From the wiki:
At some point, Zuko had a daughter. He continued to remain in power until 167 ASC; at the age of eighty-four, Zuko relinquished the throne of the Fire Nation to his daughter and officially retired, although he still continues to travel the world as an ambassador for world balance, albeit in an unofficial capacity. A statue of Zuko was erected in his honor at the center of the Central City Station in Republic City to commemorate his many accomplishments.

[Joeldi]

Fair enough, I have no idea who said that where, but I'm sure it's canon. I'm still intrigued by the idea of 'what happens when you beat someone trying to energy bend you', and still think it might be a valid way that Amon got his ability.

[Zohar]

I'm a bit disappointed with fighting styles on Korra. Or, more accurately, bending styles. Korra is always so aggressive, her fights are almost not interesting. Compared to some of the techniques used in TLA, she doesn't seem very graceful. Take this last episode - the only part that seemed in any way original and not just "slinging elements at each other" was when she caught the person's leg with waterbending.

Aang, Katara and Toph seemed much more proficient and had more diverse styles. It almost doesn't matter if she's water-, fire- or earth- bending, she'll do practically the same thing whatever element she chooses.

Does anyone else think the same?

[Angua]

Yes. I think they kind of shadowed it in the one where she's introduced to pro-bending by saying that there's a certain 'style' that gets followed no matter which element you are, but it's annoying none the less. They never seem to use ice to capture the people still, and the earth bending seems to be limited to the training disc things.

[Diadem]

I always assumed those limitations are set by the rules. Earth benders are probably only allowed to use those discs, and not, for example, take chunks out of the arena itself. Both to limit damage to the arena itself, and keep things safe for the players. Similarly I assume water benders are only allowed to use water from the nodes in the ground, and not from the lake surrounding the playing field.

I'm mostly disappointed by how short the pro-bending matches seem to be. Somehow I just can't imagine a full stadium of people paying money to watch a two 30 second matches.

[Izawwlgood]

I'm mostly disappointed by how short the pro-bending matches seem to be. Somehow I just can't imagine a full stadium of people paying money to watch a two 30 second matches.

Heh, I don't disagree with you in the slightest, but A ) I assume there's more than a single match at each event, and we only watch one or two of them, and B ) Ever heard of the Preakness, Kentucky Derby, or Gold Cup?

Earth benders are probably only allowed to use those discs, and not, for example, take chunks out of the arena itself.

My impression of the arena is that it's not even made of stone. It's probably metal and some kind of wood/padded matting. It's kind of a cool sport, but truthfully, I've been almost entirely disappointed with how it's executed. There's no motivation for diversity of bending styles, since the whole thing basically amounts to 'who can shoot move concussive blasts at the opponent faster/harder'. I'd love to see someone catch/support a teammate with water or a stone disc, or, really, someone do anything other than just 'shoot shoot shoot shoot'. The closest we got was when Korra protected Mako in the first match of the episode.

[spoiler=http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3kyftP0KV1qe2uut.gif]Kind of a disappointing episode all around, really only redeemed by Bolin being the hilariousest.[/spoiler]

[Isaac Hill]

This video from nick.com explains the rules, but it's around 18 minutes long. It starts with a lot of talk about zones that seems pretty straightforward. Around 7:50 the guy says each match is 3 rounds, each round is 3 minutes. Later, water benders can only draw from the grates bordering their current zone and cannot use ice. Earth benders can only use discs from their current zone. Only water benders can aim for the head. The video mentions sending the rules out. This website seems to have a legit version.

[Joeldi]

I thought the episode was a very well executed

Spoiler:

Love quadrangle dealie

but it's not what I want out of my Avatar. I'm hoping that the purpose of the episode was to

Spoiler:

Put all of the romantic drama on to a much slower burn, and we'll only see the smallest hints of it until maybe episode 11 which sets us up for a classic 'they're dating in season 2' thing. I'd prefer if the romance remained subtle and as out of the story as possible after this, but Ep 5 did not tie it up near well enough to go in that direction.

[Izawwlgood]

Meh, I'm holding out for Korzumi.

[ArgonV]

Korzumi? That's Korra + ..?

[Diadem]

Another question about the last episode:

Spoiler:

Where did this crush between Korra and Mako come from? Back in episode 1 they hated each other, and it seemed pretty obvious they were going to develop a romantic subplot between Korra and Bolin. Then in the next 2 episodes Korra and Mako come to respect each other, but there isn't a hint of anything more. More hints are dropped however about romantic feelings between Bolin and Korra.

Then at the end of episode 4 Korra is suddenly jealous of Mako when he has a girlfriend, and all of episode 5 is spent talking about this. And all of this is portrayed as if the viewer should long have been aware of these things.

I'm completely confused. Did I miss a few episodes or something?

[Izawwlgood]

Korzumi? That's Korra + ..?

Azumi...

Did I miss a few episodes or something?

Theres the scene when Mako is looking for Bolin, and Tenzin's daughters are like "Oooo, is that the dreamy firebender that drives you crazy?"

I think the implication is that she's been talking about a brooding firebender a lot more than a hilariously good natured earthbender.

[PCal]

I think pro benders are supposed to be mirroring boxing matches (at least that what it looks like to me not that i watch alot of boxing) The way they set their hands at the start looks very boxing like.

[Izawwlgood]

I think pro benders are supposed to be mirroring boxing matches (at least that what it looks like to me not that i watch alot of boxing) The way they set their hands at the start looks very boxing like.

Yeah, totally, and to that vein, we should expect the 'ingenuity' of what happens in the ring to be limited. Still, I wish they showed cooler sequences than 'Korra dodges like a badass and then blasts the opponents off the stand!' or 'Kapowkapowkapow, the Fire Ferrets win!'.

Which is why, to be fair, I liked seeing the sudden death tie breaker.

[maybeagnostic]

I haven't seen the latest episode yet but so far it seems that Korra is kinda... bad at bending. She has the same super aggressive and unfocused style no matter what element she uses and I think she's a lot worse at any given element than any of the characters from the first show. Her fighting really reminds me of Zuko in the first season and I hope that's intentional. My explanation is that Aang was a superb airbender that just studied that for most of his life and then he was consecutively taught by masters of the other styles, immersing himself exclusively in each style for a time. What little we saw of Korra's education was a mix of all styles at the same time taught by a group of decent benders and she doesn't seem to have picked up much of the traditions or mentality of the different styles.

We did see her move very differently once in episode two when she finally 'got' airbending but she hasn't really used the style since. My guess is that they have left a lot of room for her bending skills to grow during the show even if that won't be quite as much of a focus as it was in TLA.

[Joeldi]

Yeah, I think that's a pretty important point of the series. Maybe given that she's 'mastered' three of the elements, that means she's mastered the control side of things 'that she can make that rock go over there in exactly this manner' but her combat abilities are not that outstanding, her ingenuity is poor and her spirituality is zero.

[Izawwlgood]

I sort of think that's part of the point. That previous Avatars have mastered their own element, then one by one mastered each of the others. But these times, they are a changin', and Korra grew up protected and taught by teachers from three elements, and learned the basics quickly and well. Now that she's studying under a master (Tenzin), she's having a hard time because he's not demanding she learn some first level moves, he's training her to THINK like an Air Bender.

One theme I've seen in a lot of good stories that I can't quite explain well is this notion that safety, control, regulation, are all bad things. That the magic of Middle Earth slowly ebbed away once the Humans spread and mastered technology, that the Force becomes less impressive among the Jedi when they aren't challenged... actually, it popped up most in Dune, how in the second book, the water fat Fremen were becoming weak and less badass. So too I think does Korra, Republic City, and Bending embody this notion, as the more regulation Republic City places on individual benders, and the faster but more superficially Korra learned these other styles, the more 'dilute' the impressiveness, the wonder, becomes.

[cephalopod9]

It's also weird to think about how almost all knowledge on air bending is being passed down directly from Aang.

Tahno is based on a real person, haha, this is the best.

I think pro benders are supposed to be mirroring boxing matches (at least that what it looks like to me not that i watch alot of boxing) The way they set their hands at the start looks very boxing like.

Yeah, totally, and to that vein, we should expect the 'ingenuity' of what happens in the ring to be limited. Still, I wish they showed cooler sequences than 'Korra dodges like a badass and then blasts the opponents off the stand!' or 'Kapowkapowkapow, the Fire Ferrets win!'.

Which is why, to be fair, I liked seeing the sudden death tie breaker.

Mako got some neat kicks in, and Korra got that penalty for "unnecessary roughness". Although, I do kinda hope that they'll either show full rounds, or else show less of the arena matches all together.

I guess they kind of needed a Feelings and Relationships episode, even if it is kind of a let down after sorta teasing some flash-back stuff and just getting started on all the politics and stuff.

Another question about the last episode:

Spoiler:

Where did this crush between Korra and Mako come from? Back in episode 1 they hated each other, and it seemed pretty obvious they were going to develop a romantic subplot between Korra and Bolin. Then in the next 2 episodes Korra and Mako come to respect each other, but there isn't a hint of anything more. More hints are dropped however about romantic feelings between Bolin and Korra.

Then at the end of episode 4 Korra is suddenly jealous of Mako when he has a girlfriend, and all of episode 5 is spent talking about this. And all of this is portrayed as if the viewer should long have been aware of these things.

I'm completely confused. Did I miss a few episodes or something?

Spoiler:

Korra probably would be less interested in Mako without competition, since she's confrontational like that.
This is also, as far as we're shown, her first time around boys her own age. It's pretty in character for her to be brash and kind of thoughtless.

[maybeagnostic]

Finally saw the episode and it is a little boring. The bending almost got tedious by the third match but it seems to be intentional- it established a rigid structure to bending matches so we can be extra impressed when the Fireferrets and Wolfbats have this awesome and very non-traditional fight.

[Isaac Hill]

I get the sense that Korra's always been a powerful enough bender that she's been able to brute force her way through problems without having to finesse them. She's like a pitcher whose fastball strikes out enough batters that she's never had to learn to throw a curve.

Another possibility is that Korra's not meant to be bad at bending, but the show's structure makes it harder to find ways to have her show off. Like others here have said, pro-bending limits what one can do in the ring. Outside the ring, she's been fighting in the city streets, which all seem pretty much the same. AtLA had a wide variety of settings (jungle, forest, desert, town, ships, etc) which let benders use the terrain in interesting ways. I'm not sure Republic City even has hills.

Her outside the ring opponents have been mostly chi blockers. It may be tough to choreograph a fight between a person with superpowers and a person without that keeps the two evenly matched, but doesn't make the person with superpowers look bad. If they showed Korra doing any really impressive bending, you wouldn't believe the people who punch well pose much of a threat.

Giving the blockers weapons levels the playing field a bit, but you're still trying to make someone who can throw fireballs and move the fighting surface look impressive when she's squaring off against a dude with a rope. These fights may get more interesting as the fight choreographers get more experienced with them.

[Izawwlgood]

I think he fights with the chi-blockers have been very impressive. I'm left with the impression that skilled blockers have trained specifically to deal with benders, and thus, are true threats.

[Lucrece]

I find chi blockers to be unbelievable given that they're supposed to be regular people but have the reflexes and acrobatics of fucking spiderman.

[Angua]

I've always privately decided that the world where avatar takes place has a lower gravity than earth. It makes everything more believable when everyone is jumping around.

[Izawwlgood]

Yeah, there's already a pretty impressive body of evidence that bending isn't required to jump 20 ft in the air. I seem to recall Suki and Ty Lee doing some pretty ridiculous shit.

Which, incidentally; Ty Lee was the only Chi-blocker in TLA, any thoughts as to whether or not she accidentally founded the Chi-blocker fighting style movement? Or the Kyoshi warriors, whom she taught?

[Angua]

Someone had to have taught her.

[The Mighty Thesaurus]

Why? Someone had to have discovered it in the first place.

[Angua]

True, but it seems like a pretty well-polished skill to have happened all at once. She might have come up with a few new moves, but it seems like something that should have been around for a few more generations (and she was pretty young).

[Joeldi]

I've always privately decided that the world where avatar takes place has a lower gravity than earth. It makes everything more believable when everyone is jumping around.

Heh, going off the apparent size of the world, that makes at least a little sense.

Soo, Episode 6. Acts 1 and 2 had some great stuff, and some more cliches, and then Act 3 was :D:D:D!!!!

Spoiler:

The whole 'every single person knows they're cheating but no-one cares' deal kinda ticked me off, I liked the Tenlin stuff, and the action at the end was just incredible. Lin Bei Fong: New favourtie character? Disappointed we didn't see anything much of Tenzin, but I guess it fits that he wouldn't be a fighter. I do miss airbending though.

[Thadlerian]

Episode 6: WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST WATCH?

For the latest three episodes I had a sneaking feeling this would be a mediocre show. The writing felt weak and uncreative, and despite nice and upgraded animation, very little seemed to happen that couldn't be anticipated.

And then this episode comes along. I'm not going to comment on the writing, except it seemed slow and that same kind of slightly predictable in the beginning. But then came the climax, and it felt like payback for all the letdowns of the previous episodes. I was by the edge of my seat, gaping, within seconds. I can't remember a single sequence in the original show that has such intensity (only the season finales could possible compete). I can't remember being so excited over animation since my childhood. They've taken all the strength of A:TLA and combined it with the first-rate animation of LoK.

I watched Avengers a couple of days ago. Nothing in the movie came even close to the final five minutes of episode 6. I think the difference is all about focus. It's centered on one single protagonist and her triumphs against opponents who were previously her superiors.


Never in Avengers did I feel a need to shout "YES! TAKE THAT!" as I did today, when

Spoiler:

Korra's firebending swept the equalists off their platforms, and exploded in the cargo bay of the airship, throwing all the mooks off their feet,

or when

Spoiler:

she came to Chief Bei Fong's aid, knocking down the Lieutenant.

Powerful. That's what it was.

[mercutio_stencil]

Spoiler:

The whole 'every single person knows they're cheating but no-one cares' deal kinda ticked me off, I liked the Tenlin stuff, and the action at the end was just incredible. Lin Bei Fong: New favourtie character? Disappointed we didn't see anything much of Tenzin, but I guess it fits that he wouldn't be a fighter. I do miss airbending though.

re:Wolfbats

Spoiler:

What pisses me off as much as the cheating, is the fact they obviously paid off the ref, but absolutely no attention was given as to how. They don't appear to be independently wealthy, nor to have a sponsor. The only thing I can assume is that either Future Industries wanted to sponsor a second place team for some reason, or that Amon somehow rigged the entire thing, and the Wolfbats are in league with him

[PCal]

I thought the episode was good but I still have some ranting to do.

Spoiler:

It seems to me that the quality of benders has gone down since TLA which is totally possible since there has been a 70 year peace. Admittedly in TLA it was a plot centered around the top benders in all the elements. Although amon said the the wolfbats were the top benders I do find my self wondering where the actual good benders are because I think alot of TLA characters would wipe the floor with amon and and his crew. Also what happened to the police airships?

Also Re wolfbats

Spoiler:

Yeah that's not how cheating in sports works its never that blatant. Also if the whole sports rigged why not let korras team win and bet on hence making a shit ton of money them since the odds against them would be very high.

[ArgonV]

I'm still wondering about

Spoiler:

Korra's visions. When she's out cold, she apparently sees visions of Aang, this will probably lead up to the Avatar state at some point? I also presume Amon is someone from Aang's past.

[cephalopod9]

The episodes are so short! Stuff starts happening, and then it's over.

re:Wolfbats

Spoiler:

What pisses me off as much as the cheating, is the fact they obviously paid off the ref, but absolutely no attention was given as to how. They don't appear to be independently wealthy, nor to have a sponsor. The only thing I can assume is that either Future Industries wanted to sponsor a second place team for some reason, or that Amon somehow rigged the entire thing, and the Wolfbats are in league with him

Spoiler:

This is their 3rd year as champions, and they have enough groupies that I assume their success in pro-bending has made them financially successful.
They did take the cheating a bit far, so I could also buy that the Equalists were involved, and the Wolfbats were just pushing their luck. Even though they seem to start out expecting some favoritism, they take things further as the game goes on. I don't think the two were cooperating with each other, Tahno looks too genuinely scared for it to be an act.
The announcer commenting on every instance of cheating, I sort of read as fourth wall-leaning exposition. Kinda like how Korra got all the way to participating in a match without knowing some pretty basic rules.

Did the wolfbats' costumes make anyone else think of these guys?
"Cabage Industries" lol.

Spoiler:

It seems to me that the quality of benders has gone down since TLA which is totally possible since there has been a 70 year peace. Admittedly in TLA it was a plot centered around the top benders in all the elements. Although amon said the the wolfbats were the top benders I do find my self wondering where the actual good benders are because I think alot of TLA characters would wipe the floor with amon and and his crew. Also what happened to the police airships?

There's definitely been a move towards more utilitarian and less artful, traditional fighting styles. There's definitely less reason for most of these characters to become expert martial artists, but I don't think it's necessarily the case that they aren't competent fighters. We got some good fight moments this episode.

Spoiler:

Lin's metal-bender moves were so cool! She and Korra got to fight together!

I want Pabu to do more ferret-y things. Ferrets are funny to watch.

[Okita]

My only problem is that Lance Henriksen is a lieutenant to Amon.

Seriously Admiral Hacket, what are you doing working with the enemy!? D:

[Vanguard]

Good episode, not really how I wanted it to go down. I was -hoping- for a more traditional match without much interference. The cheating thing was neat, but hoped they had a more concrete punishment that "Yay, they can't bend now. I bet they're still douchebags."

I was hoping for a more official "They cheated, fuck those guys" rather than a terrorist attack.

[Isaac Hill]

Which, incidentally; Ty Lee was the only Chi-blocker in TLA, any thoughts as to whether or not she accidentally founded the Chi-blocker fighting style movement? Or the Kyoshi warriors, whom she taught?

I figured the chi blocking was derived from Ty Lee's technique. I always assumed that Ty Lee invented/discovered chi-blocking because not only was she the only one we saw do it, but people who fought her for the first time had no clue what happened to them. If it was a more common ability, her opponents might would have heard of it and realized what she'd done to them. The only counter-argument I can think of is that Ty Lee's blocking was much more powerful than Equalist blocking. Equalists' victims can't bend; Ty Lee's victims couldn't move.

Speaking of rare techniques, I wonder if lightning redirecting will make a comeback. It seems like it'd come in handy right about now, and with lightning creation becoming more common, it would've made sense for Aang to have ensured that a counter technique would be taught to his successor.

Did the wolfbats' costumes make anyone else think of these guys?

I didn't think of that when I first saw the episode, but now that you mention it, yes. Yes they do.

"Cabage Industries" lol.

For a while, I wondered if Amon was a descendant of the cabbage merchant. It would help explain his anger towards benders, and he did mention growing up on a farm. But, it seems like they're making him out to be far too dark to have such a silly backstory. Megaphone Guy, on the other hand...

Wolfbats, episode 6:

Spoiler:

Watching the Wolfbats come up with ways to cheat was probably the most creative bending I've seen in the ring. A lot of those moves involved some pretty coordinated teamwork. If they're good enough to pull that off, they're probably good enough to have won fairly. It's like in the Laff-a-lympics, when the Really Rottens would build up a big lead, then waste all the time they gained setting elaborate traps.

I think cephalopod9's right about them having enough cash already to bribe the ref themselves and expect some favoritism. If the Equalists got wind of that, they could have forced the ref to let the Wolfbats get away with even more to make them look worse.

I spent the weekend visiting my parents for Mothers' Day, so this was the first episode I missed on initial airing and had to watch on nick.com. Apparently, I missed this. Spongebob's a dick.

[Izawwlgood]

Fun conspiracy circulating;

Spoiler:

Cabbage Industries is the leader in technology. Amon announces that he will not rest until everyone has the technology that lets them be on equal footing with benders.

...

[cephalopod9]

Which, incidentally; Ty Lee was the only Chi-blocker in TLA, any thoughts as to whether or not she accidentally founded the Chi-blocker fighting style movement? Or the Kyoshi warriors, whom she taught?

I figured the chi blocking was derived from Ty Lee's technique. I always assumed that Ty Lee invented/discovered chi-blocking because not only was she the only one we saw do it, but people who fought her for the first time had no clue what happened to them. If it was a more common ability, her opponents might would have heard of it and realized what she'd done to them. The only counter-argument I can think of is that Ty Lee's blocking was much more powerful than Equalist blocking. Equalists' victims can't bend; Ty Lee's victims couldn't move.

Just about every technique in Last Airbender looks to have become more common. Lightning bending went from a rarity to manual labor.
It seemed like chi-blocking was a known technique. The cast was surprised by it, but it didn't seem to get the kind of attention it would attract as a new innovation. It's clearly a very difficult skill, and I imagine not a lot of people are going to go up against someone who can throw fire with their bare hands. In Legend of Korra the anti-bender movement makes it a more desirable skill then it probably was previously.

[maybeagnostic]

I really don't like what the writer's are doing with Tenzin's character. I thought he was being set up as the wise mentor that teaches Korra about controlling her emotions, communicating with others, and finding peaceful solutions to problems. Instead we get a comedic relief character that undermines these values with his incompetence and goofiness.

Spoiler:

And I was so disappointed that the only airbending master did nothing but watch an intense aerial fight in which the avatar almost died multiple times. What was up with that?

The equalist attack just seemed lazily written overall. I understand what the writers were trying to do and the scene was well executed but they just won too easily. Taking out all the police in the arena... whatever, I can accept that. But they took over an airship and destroyed at least five others without anyone even raising an alarm? They effectively destroyed the bender police so, unless Tenzin has an army of benders standing around, haven't the equalists won at this point? Not to mention any grunt in their army apparently has a decent chance of taking out the avatar single-handed and the only bending master willing to fight does only slightly better.

I wonder where the water bender's story is going at this point. Most of the time I think he is Amon or at least a spy for Amon but every once in a while I think he might just be really stupid. If characters showed a bit more consistency in their personalities I would be sure he was working for the equalists but seeing what they did to Tenzin...

The one thing I was hoping the show would address but it seems will never be actually mentioned- why is Katara Tenzin's mother?