Shadowrun Mafia - Kill all Humans? - Mafia wins

[flarpfreak]

FOS UniqueScreenname She was the first one to suggest the lynx was suggesting a mass role claim. In fact, lynx was noting that it was looking like it was heading in that direction, and gave one possible negative implication. The next real post by US was to defend KrO2s comments and questions about hacking, which comes across as a bit strange to me. It's one thing to say you don't get a scum vibe from someone, it's another to try and defend their posts for them. The final real posts by US were to create a new vote on New User, for no real reason...all of this just seems to indicate scum to me.

[flarpfreak]

EBWOP almost forgot, Unique Screename was also one of the ones pushing for Snark to MI claim.

[UniqueScreenname]

I want to be clear: I'm not against lurker lynches. I said that lurkers should be lynched if they are lurking on purpose. When Snark said that Cameroni probably didn't know that he was lurking, I saw it as a mistake and not as a strategy. When New User didn't unvote, it screamed scumminess to me. It seemed like he picked someone easy to get rid of with a legit enough stance that he could hide behind. Things are a bit different now. Cameroni hasn't added any information really, making me think it is more of a strategy, so I will Unvote.

As far as my being against mass claiming, I still think it's a horrible idea. Yes, I need to figure out who people are, but I would much rather toil in secret to get the information I need then let the mafia be allowed to have it. I'm sure it would only kill us off faster. And as I have said before, I still don't think it looked like we were headed for a mass claim. One person was considering claiming, who had good reason to. He's immune, so he didn't want town to waste actions on him. I was in favor of him claiming for this exact reason. Also, I still think that knowing it wouldn't do the mafia any good, because they would know what powers they have and they would know which of those wouldn't work on him because he's immune. I say this because cyber powers say "cyber" right next to them in the profiles so hacking powers should say "hacking" right next to them too, no?

[Snark]

This game is difficult. I suspect everyone. But I did my best to crank out some analysis. Here it is.

All kinds of FoS'es flying around. I don't like it.

I stand by my original vote on KrO2. It's still the best I have to go off of, even if he has calmed down considerably since his initial posts.
A new reason to vote KrO2 is his post in which he FoS's 4 people to various degrees and states that if the deadline were now, he'd be voting for (wait for it) the runner-up in the lynch votals. This reason has less weight than the original reasons (both town and scum want to avoid being lynched), but it adds to the case nontheless.

I don't like lynx's quick unvote after I FoS'd him and New User. Being afraid to keep a vote out after someone calls attention to it is scummy to me. Note that I mentioned that the vote was scummy, and now I'm saying that the unvote was scummy. This is not a contradiction.

All this stuff with flarpfreak, New User, fshfood and US is confusing. I see the first three attacking US and US not coming back with any defense. But no one's turning it into a vote? Lack of votes = lack of scumminess on the part of the attackers in my mind. The lack of a bandwagon forming on US based on these FoSes makes me suspicious of US. They're all giving US time to respond, which US has not done yet (with only a day left to deadline).

I'm liking DBC's content. His most recent FoSes are on Cameroni, lynx, and US and a mini on New User. These line up somewhat with my suspicions. Except I put KrO2 at the beginning of that list. And minus New User.

Adam's been lurking and throwing out a few weak FoSes. Perhaps he's trying to tone down his meta, but he's usually more aggressive that I've seen. Neutral until I know what to make of this.

eculc is lurking mostly. Putting a lot of FoSes out. He defended KrO2 when few other people were. If KrO2 is scum, I'm going to suspect eculc. But if KrO2 is town, that will make me feel pretty good about eculc.

Teh only two people left are Tim and Cameroni. Tim's posting less content than I'd expect. Cameroni's posting less content than anyone ever. I have no reads other than "neutral" and "lurky newb who is making no effort" respectively.

If KrO2 comes back scum, that will clear Tim and Cameroni in my mind.

Summary
Townie = eculc, Tim
Scummy = KrO2, lynx, US, Cameroni
Neutral = flarpfreak, New User, fshfood, Adam

I realize that I've put hardly anyone in the town category. If there's one thing I've learnt from the few games I've played so far, it's that I really shouldn't trust people until they give me reason to. Defauly is neutral.

Ninja'd by US. The unvote could indicate a change of heart or simply trying to get out of the spotlight. The last few sentences are dumb. The reason I didn't claim is because almost no one was against it. That makes me think that scum are cool with it. That makes it seem like scum want to know my MI. That makes me not want to claim my MI. How is that not clear???

[UniqueScreenname]

I said at the beginning claiming was your decision. I wasn't saying that to get you to change your mind. I just wanted to put my thought processes out there because they are being questioned.

[DaBigCheez]

awww, I don't even merit a spot on Snark's analysis list :<

*slinks off dejectedly to curl up in a corner*

(Yes, I realize you posted an analysis of me, just was amused I was the only player other than yourself to then not show up in the summary )

[Snark]

Summary
Townie = eculc, Tim, DaBigCheez
Scummy = KrO2, lynx, US, Cameroni
Neutral = flarpfreak, New User, fshfood, Adam

Fixed. For DBC.

[Snark]

Summary
Townie = eculc, Tim, DaBigCheez
Scummy = KrO2, lynx, US, Cameroni
Neutral = flarpfreak, New User, fshfood, Adam

Fixed. For DBC.

Gotta stay on his good side if I want a good role in the Gargoyle's game.

Yes, I'm allowed to talk about the Gargoyle's game as it hasn't started, and I haven't received my role PM yet. So there.

[New User]

Well I now know that there are cyber actions that are not hacks. That means Snark isn't immune to all cyber actions. So Snark, you're doing good by not claiming your icon, I suppose. I agree with you about UniqueScreenname looking scummy. She got mad when I voted for Cameroni101, accusing me of throwing votes out with no reason and saying that I was doing so because I don't care who votes. Next she said that it would be OK to lynch someone who lurks and who acts scummy, or who lurks and jumps on a bandwagon, and that's exactly what I did, so why did she get mad in the first place? It looks to me like she was defending Cameroni101, and that makes them look scummy together to me. Of course, they both are new to this, right? So am I, really.

I don't find lynx particularly scummy. I think he's been misread, especially when I see someone call him scummy for advocating mass icon claiming. Looking back at the first post where he mentions mass claiming, I don't see it as a suggestion he was making. It looks like he wasn't necessarily against a mass claim, but he brought it up as it seemed the idea of individual claims would snowball into a mass claim by everyone. Something similar happened to me once, when I said "hey guys, what about this particular strategy?" and they all said "that's a terrible idea! You must be scum for even bringing it up!" when I wasn't even really trying to say we should do that, just trying to bring the topic up for discussion by everyone so we could talk about if it's bad or if it's good. Since I've been in a similar situation, maybe I just want to sympathize with lynx and it's effecting my judgment.

KrO2, I don't know what to think. It's true that he's acted a little dodgy here and there, but nothing screams "deception" to me about any of his posts. There sure are a lot of people against him though. I'll go back and read the whole thread (again, grumble) later.

I still haven't forgotten about DBC cautioning everyone that cyber actions can be dangerous, but then turning around and saying the exact opposite. Overall, though, I find DBC's contributions consistent with a townie mindset. He's also one of the more experienced players here, ya? So he could be a clever mafioso who knows how to act townie. You're not off the hook DBC.

Tim: I agree with Snark, he's been a little quiet lately. Must be busy with real life stuff. Again, I know how that is. I've said before that I imagine this game is a low priority in someone's life, and I must admit that I have been so active online because I've had a lot of free time lately. Tim started throwing a lot of suspicion towards KrO2 and it seems to be working, as most people say they find KrO2 scummy. Maybe Tim is looking for a scapegoat.

eculc: Snark said he's been lurking, but it looks to me like he has about one post per day. That's more than Cameroni101 and flarpfreak. They are the lurkers I'm worried about.

fshfood brought up some good points with US's behavior, which I agree with. At least we appear to have a similar mindset.

Adam H is the only one I haven't mentioned? He hasn't said anything particularly notable lately, except pointing out a disagreement of a minor semantic issue with flarpfreak. Really, Adam H? That's what pinged your scumradar? I'm pretty sure Adam H is a more experienced player than I, so maybe the wording of that sentence really is significant, but I just don't see it.

[New User]

I'd like to add that I find UniqueScreenname to be the scummiest player right now, and if we want to lynch her, that's fine with me. Cameroni101 isn't any better off. Her initial behavior is very suspicious, and she never offered any information beyond "what Snark said," and she's never said what she thinks about any other players. US looks bad for defending her so valiantly. My vote stands, but if UniqueScreenname starts to get a lot of votes, I'll join in and even hammer vote if nothing changes. The deadline is 30-ish hours from now, unless I did the math wrong, and I think we should lynch one of these two.

[flarpfreak]

I'd like to add that I find UniqueScreenname to be the scummiest player right now, and if we want to lynch her, that's fine with me. Cameroni101 isn't any better off. Her initial behavior is very suspicious, and she never offered any information beyond "what Snark said," and she's never said what she thinks about any other players. US looks bad for defending her so valiantly. My vote stands, but if UniqueScreenname starts to get a lot of votes, I'll join in and even hammer vote if nothing changes. The deadline is 30-ish hours from now, unless I did the math wrong, and I think we should lynch one of these two.

So what you are saying is that you are willing to vote only if it's a bandwagon?

[Cameroni101]

Alright, Here's my reasoning that all of you have been discussing. There is none, I was incredibly busy for the past couple days, including closing two shows and prom. Now I am here and I've read the entire thread. My first post was there to prevent myself from replacement. I want to be an active member of this town and now I'm here to do just that.
Unvote
I don't believe that there is any reason to lynch Kr02 based on the info I have read. As for New User, I see that you are just doing your job. You think that apparent lurkers could be possible scum. I agree with your sentiment and if you wish to continue your vote, I have no quarrels against being scared.

Also:

he/him/his

[Snark]

he/him/his

I apologize. I did check, but Weeks must have gotten you mixed up with another player. This is from the OP of the gender pronouns thread. You should ask Weeks to update it.

...
BigNose -- he/him/his
BoomFrog -- he/him/his
Boreeas -- he/him/his
CaptainFinglass -- she/her/hers
Cameroni101 -- she/her/hers
Chandani -- she/her/hers
Chickenfish -- he/him/his
...

[New User]

I'd like to add that I find UniqueScreenname to be the scummiest player right now, and if we want to lynch her, that's fine with me. Cameroni101 isn't any better off. Her initial behavior is very suspicious, and she never offered any information beyond "what Snark said," and she's never said what she thinks about any other players. US looks bad for defending her so valiantly. My vote stands, but if UniqueScreenname starts to get a lot of votes, I'll join in and even hammer vote if nothing changes. The deadline is 30-ish hours from now, unless I did the math wrong, and I think we should lynch one of these two.

So what you are saying is that you are willing to vote only if it's a bandwagon?

Actually, the reason I added that post was so that if a "bandwagon" begins for UniqueScreenname, and I change my vote to her instead of Cameroni101, I won't be accused of doing it simply for the sake of joining said wagon. I'm saying I find them both equally scummy right now, in particular a large reason I perceive UniqueScreenname as scum is her adamant defense of Cameroni101. Since I can't vote for both, I decided to say that I'll vote for either.

Also:

he/him/his

I apologize. It's right there in the OP of the "pronouns" thread, it says she/her/hers next to your name. You should PM Weeks to get that changed so nobody else is embarrassed like me.

[KrO2]

Alright, Here's my reasoning that all of you have been discussing. There is none, I was incredibly busy for the past couple days, including closing two shows and prom. Now I am here and I've read the entire thread. My first post was there to prevent myself from replacement. I want to be an active member of this town and now I'm here to do just that.
Unvote
I don't believe that there is any reason to lynch KrO2 based on the info I have read.

?
I appreciate having the vote taken off, but if this is true it means you not only voted for no reason but also came back and stood by it for no reason. I suppose revoking it is the townie thing to do given that you've already done what you previously did, but you being town now requires you, as town, to have intentionally joined a bandwagon without thinking I was scum.
This post did make me feel a little better about Cameroni, because it wasn't what I was expecting if he's scum. On the other hand, I have already said I'm vulnerable to Hanlon's Razor, so maybe he's just clever.

@lynx: You've got a couple of people defending you w/r/t the mass icon claim (and FoSing US for calling that scummy). Fortunately, you can help clear this up. Were you ever actually suggesting that, and if so what changed your mind?

@US: You still haven't answered how you can think of "literally no upside" to a mass icon claim and simultaneously gain power from it. Is your becoming more powerful not a good thing for town? I think this is the strongest argument against you (Flat contradiction! Woot!) and it's also the one you haven't answered.

New User: I think I agree with a majority of what you said. Partial exception about Adam H and flarpfreak. That semantic issue could be a big deal: we presumably have more sides than mafia and town (though we don't have any reasonable way of knowing the distribution yet). If you're scum, you're thinking primarily in terms of mafia vs. town, and this could be a slip.

Also, eculc continues not posting information of worth. (To answer the question directed at Tim: He already answered that. He said the reason the vote stays is because he was unsatisfied with my reaction.) I'm going to drop this when eculc does post useful stuff.

Let me know if I'm overthinking this, but if there were definitive cyber results they would have claimed. Therefore, can we extrapolate from the lack of investigative claims that Cameroni and I and possibly Tim are more likely to be town? We were the ones who I think were most likely to be investigated, and this could end up making me less likely to vote Cameroni.

[flarpfreak]

That semantic issue could be a big deal: we presumably have more sides than mafia and town (though we don't have any reasonable way of knowing the distribution yet). If you're scum, you're thinking primarily in terms of mafia vs. town, and this could be a slip.

Allow me to explain...This is my second game of forum mafia, and I am used to playing IRL where the only two factions are town and mafia. My post was framed in an us vs. them style, however, as a townie, I think of it as town vs. all scum factions. Sorry for the confusion.

[KrO2]

I'm not sure whether or not I buy that. The first part, about the two IRL mafia factions, definitely. (Do you play with cop+doc+mafia? Turns out that's a solved game: have the cop claim D1 and get protected, NL until he finds the scum. I can't wait to crush people at it.) As to the second, well, it is town vs all scum, but you said "both." "Both" implies two, and "all scum factions" is not one side. Checking the dead players list in Avengers, you know this. (I can say that, right? Because that's public information?) You might say that, though, if you are mafia thinking like that or if you are independent scum trying to get us to forget that exists.
I don't want to accuse you of being scum if it's just that you think in slightly different terms, so I'll ask everybody in general what they think.
Everybody in general: What do you think?

[BoomFrog]

Deadline in 25 hours.

Vtotals:
Cameroni101 - 1 - (New User)
kr02 - 3 - (t1mm01994, Snark, Cameroni101)
New User - 1 - (UniqueScreenName)

7 to lynch

[fshfood]

BoomFrog .. I think Cameroni Unovted

So, I just want to verify if the vtotals correct?

Thanks!

[BoomFrog]

I had a feeling I missed something but couldn't find it. Thank you.

Deadline in 25 hours.

Vtotals:
Cameroni101 - 1 - (New User)
kr02 - 2 - (t1mm01994, Snark)
New User - 1 - (UniqueScreenName)

7 to lynch

[fshfood]

@KrO2 -- I can understand flarpfreak's reasoning, especially as a new-ish player, but I'm new-ish too, so maybe I'm missing a nuance. So, for me, I'll keep my eye on him, but I'm getting more ping off of US right now than flarp.

[lynx]

@lynx: You've got a couple of people defending you w/r/t the mass icon claim (and FoSing US for calling that scummy). Fortunately, you can help clear this up. Were you ever actually suggesting that, and if so what changed your mind?

To be honest I thought people were just about to start claiming, and was hoping to hold it off until we could discuss it some more as I wasn't sure it was a great idea.
Sorry in general for being a bit nervous, first game and all so I don't always manage to type out just what I want to!

@US: You still haven't answered how you can think of "literally no upside" to a mass icon claim and simultaneously gain power from it. Is your becoming more powerful not a good thing for town? I think this is the strongest argument against you (Flat contradiction! Woot!) and it's also the one you haven't answered.

I saw this as well, and it seems a bit shifty. @US I'd love to know what your power is to do with finding who people are, as I can't think of many town powers that would require this. But again, not suggesting you claim it. Just saying I find you very suspicious but won't act on it; I don't like it when people go up the wall at each other and both vote for each other, that sort of thing can't be good for town.

Let me know if I'm overthinking this, but if there were definitive cyber results they would have claimed. Therefore, can we extrapolate from the lack of investigative claims that Cameroni and I and possibly Tim are more likely to be town? We were the ones who I think were most likely to be investigated, and this could end up making me less likely to vote Cameroni.

I don't think you can assume that. From what I can tell people with cyber actions are keeping the information gleaned to themselves. Makes sense, I'd guess a cop doesn't want to out himself D1 just to maybe lynch one scum; and of course scum wouldn't bring any cyber actions up in here should they have them.


Also thought this would be a good time to explain my Cameroni unvote, I was going to an exam (didn't have much time) and couldn't check how long until lynch deadline. So I thought that in case he came back and explained himself I wouldn't give scum a bandwagon to jump on.

[lynx]

I don't like it when people go up the wall at each other and both vote for each other

EBWOP: Not quite sure how to phrase that, but I mean the sort of thing Town Lataro would get involved in, and I've definitely seem a couple games where it resulted in a townie being lynched.

[Snark]

Let me know if I'm overthinking this, but if there were definitive cyber results they would have claimed. Therefore, can we extrapolate from the lack of investigative claims that Cameroni and I and possibly Tim are more likely to be town? We were the ones who I think were most likely to be investigated, and this could end up making me less likely to vote Cameroni.

I don't think you can assume that. From what I can tell people with cyber actions are keeping the information gleaned to themselves. Makes sense, I'd guess a cop doesn't want to out himself D1 just to maybe lynch one scum; and of course scum wouldn't bring any cyber actions up in here should they have them.

This is wrong.

Attention all cops, if you have a scum result on an investigation, share it immediately. A 1/1 trade is almost always good for town. (You may not even get NKed if there's a doctor in play). If you get a town result on somene who looks as if it's rather likely that they'll be lynched, you may want to share this as well, though it may not be worth outing yourself as a cop. I guess we should be giving out plenty of pointers as we may have newbies operating power roles.

I still hold that if KrO2 is scum, he's a godfather for being overly obsessed with investigations on himself. So the lack of people coming forward doesn't surprise me. But lynx's reasoning for disagreeing with KrO2 is wrong.

[KrO2]

Am I obsessing about it more than I should be? It seems to me that that's one of the best sources of information possible, so I should be thinking about it.
If you think I might be a godfather, do you think we can still use it as evidence in favor of Tim and Cameroni? It's not like I'll be voting myself in any case. I suppose if there are any cyber-cops they might have all investigated me, but unless they *all* did, that shouldn't remove the question.

@lynx: You've got a couple of people defending you w/r/t the mass icon claim (and FoSing US for calling that scummy). Fortunately, you can help clear this up. Were you ever actually suggesting that, and if so what changed your mind?

To be honest I thought people were just about to start claiming, and was hoping to hold it off until we could discuss it some more as I wasn't sure it was a great idea.
Sorry in general for being a bit nervous, first game and all so I don't always manage to type out just what I want to!

So, you're saying you never supported it? If that's true, that FoS against UniqueScreenname gets some credibility. (To be fair it should also apply to me, and probably some other people as well.)

[DaBigCheez]

Whew - I get sick for most of a day and spend most of the rest of the day preparing Gargoyles, and now im falling down all these posts! I warned you about posts, I warned you dog, it keeps hapening, etc.

My brain is full of cotton balls at the moment, but at present...I'm willing to give flarpfreak a "new player" pass on the scum/town wording (at least, pending a re-read of the whole sordid story), but there's some other things there that bother me as well, mostly relating to his interactions with New User. I'm still feeling displeased with Cameroni, given that his vote was stuck to with determination having not read the thread...sure, being busy and not wanting to be replaced is one thing, but the combined with the fact it was on a building bandwagon, that attitude just says to me "I don't care who gets lynched just so long as it's someone", which is practically the oldest scumtell in the book.

I'll have to go back and read over UniqueScreenname's posts more carefully - I was a little suspicious of her already, but haven't caught the mounting wave of suspicion everyone else seems to be riding, which says to me I've missed something with my fogbrain. I'll do my best to do that by tomorrow.

I'll place my vote after doing a re-read tomorrow, but right now it'd still be going on Cameroni.

[UniqueScreenname]

I wasn't protecting Cameroni. I was just reacting to my impression of New User's behavior, describing why I thought it was scummy. My reaction was not to his vote

She got mad when I voted for Cameroni101, accusing me of throwing votes out with no reason and saying that I was doing so because I don't care who votes. Next she said that it would be OK to lynch someone who lurks and who acts scummy, or who lurks and jumps on a bandwagon, and that's exactly what I did, so why did she get mad in the first place?

This is not what I was doing. I wasn't suspicious of your vote, I was suspicious of you not unvoting when I thought there had been evidence put up that made that vote seem foolish, aka Cameroni's newness to the game. The evidence no longer stands, because when the behavior was exposed, nothing changed, so I unvoted. It's better explained before.

As far as me not coming up with any positives for mass-claiming, I was trying to show how bad I thought the idea of mass-claiming was. I exaggerated. There is one positive. My job gets easier. My job is to connect people. It's not worth it to help me if everyone I'm trying to connect is getting directly targeted.

Yes, I am new to the game. Played one game online, many IRL. Different dynamics, obviously.

[lynx]

As far as me not coming up with any positives for mass-claiming, I was trying to show how bad I thought the idea of mass-claiming was. I exaggerated.

Why then did you try to implicate me? If you were exaggerating there's no reason to go throwing FoSes around. It seems to me you just really didn't want to claim and tried to divert attention on others, I haven't played enough to really know the reasons for that.

[BoomFrog]

Someone outside the game PMed me and pointed out this post by UniqueScreenName. I completely missed the unvote there. So let me reiterate and expand on the basic rules. Votes, unvotes and other actions or questions you want the mod to see should be in bold on a separate line, with an empty line above and below.

Vtotals:
Cameroni101 - 1 - (New User)
kr02 - 2 - (t1mm01994, Snark)

7 to lynch

[t1mm01994]

Unvote

because I'm not quite satisfied with my current lynch target. After the original twisty turning, all seemed quite reasonable.. But luckily, we've got another overagressive player, ready to get voted for.

Vote: UniqueScreenname

Bears some relation to my last vote, as I still think KrO2 is scummy and US was extremely cautious around the Kr lynch, posting only oneliners, that, when combined, still don't have any content.
Basically, the entirity of posts looks to me as if new scum is trying to make as many ingame buddies as possible by defending townies because he knows they're town.
Tis not the strongest reason I've ever used to vote someone, but it's strong enough for me at the moment.

[New User]

The thing about flarpfreak saying "both sides," I didn't see it because I also only have experience playing in a game with two sides. Either you're town, or mafia. The concept of a lone independent like a survivor or a serial killer is easy for me to grasp. The concept of two anti-town mafia factions is a bit harder, and without such experience I didn't think of it either, so that's why flarpfreak's wording didn't seem suspicious at all to me. I can now see where Adam H is coming from, but I can't say I'm particularly alarmed. Still, it might be something significant to look back on in the future.

As I was reading the posts since last night, I decided that KrO2 does indeed look a bit suspicious. I agree with Snark. KrO2 is "obsessing" over having himself investigated a bit much.

Am I obsessing about it more than I should be? It seems to me that that's one of the best sources of information possible, so I should be thinking about it.

Yes, you are. I'll agree that investigating someone is one of the best sources of information, but saying "investigate me!" just comes off as someone trying a little too hard.

I wasn't protecting Cameroni. I was just reacting to my impression of New User's behavior, describing why I thought it was scummy. My reaction was not to his vote

She got mad when I voted for Cameroni101, accusing me of throwing votes out with no reason and saying that I was doing so because I don't care who votes. Next she said that it would be OK to lynch someone who lurks and who acts scummy, or who lurks and jumps on a bandwagon, and that's exactly what I did, so why did she get mad in the first place?

This is not what I was doing. I wasn't suspicious of your vote, I was suspicious of you not unvoting when I thought there had been evidence put up that made that vote seem foolish, aka Cameroni's newness to the game. The evidence no longer stands, because when the behavior was exposed, nothing changed, so I unvoted. It's better explained before.

This would sit better with me if you had waited until Cameroni had shown up to explain his vote. I even said before that if he did offer an acceptable explanation, I could change my vote, but you didn't even wait for that possibility. Counter-voting against me, when I had voted for a lurker who is, at best, a poor townie player, looks like a hasty decision. It still looks to me like you were defending Cameroni, when you really didn't have much of a reason to do so. And that looks like scum trying to protect scum.

[UniqueScreenname]

As far as me not coming up with any positives for mass-claiming, I was trying to show how bad I thought the idea of mass-claiming was. I exaggerated.

Why then did you try to implicate me? If you were exaggerating there's no reason to go throwing FoSes around. It seems to me you just really didn't want to claim and tried to divert attention on others, I haven't played enough to really know the reasons for that.

I was exaggerating specifically to show how scummy I thought it was to bring it up.

Counter-voting against me, when I had voted for a lurker who is, at best, a poor townie player, looks like a hasty decision.

This is all that it was.

I had strong scumdar flags on both of you. I acted accordingly.

This is wrong.

Attention all cops, if you have a scum result on an investigation, share it immediately. A 1/1 trade is almost always good for town. (You may not even get NKed if there's a doctor in play). If you get a town result on somene who looks as if it's rather likely that they'll be lynched, you may want to share this as well, though it may not be worth outing yourself as a cop. I guess we should be giving out plenty of pointers as we may have newbies operating power roles.

In light of this, I will say I found out one of the MIs is a Black IC not connected to any player.

[t1mm01994]

new plan, ignore all Tim says? Fair enough. I'll continue to keep quiet.

[UniqueScreenname]

I don't think I'd be doing a very good job of "trying to make as many ingame buddies as possible" by voting for people as I have done. I was going to respond to the one-liners and lack of content, but I don't know how, because I don't really agree I was doing that and in reviewing my posts to see if I was doing that I couldn't find anything. Examples, perhaps?

[eculc]

I'm getting some serious pings off of US. It seems she's trying to cover herself more than anything else at this point. And while I can't fault her for that, I'm not seeing any content in particular.

Other than that, I don't have much to say now, but I'll put up something more lengthy later today when I have more time.

[Adam H]

First of all, I am having a hell of a time seeing any sort of scumminess in the main “US vs. everyone else” discussion. To me it looks neutral vs. neutral. US’s “over-aggression” just seems to me like high activity. She has time to post, and what’s a new player supposed to do – NOT address these repetitive accusations of… having strong opinions on mass-claiming and lurker lynching (opinions that everyone agrees with!)? (someone needs to sum up the points against her). I can relate to her, I guess is all I’m saying.

Actually, there is a point against her – she only has 1 vote on her!?! That’s just weird.

Anyways, for now, IGMEOY: Flarpfreak for reasons in my last post. But I don’t think that warrants a vote. Instead, I’m going to vote for my dear sweet nemesis, t1mm.

T1mm:

Spoiler:

1) Thanks NU for overview
2) Votes KrO2 for no reason
3) Explains his vote on KrO2 – KrO2 was interested in Snark’s hack immunity.
4) Says that KrO2 is being overaggressive for only having 1 vote and 1 FoS
5) Notices problem with votals. Explains bussing to lynx. Thinks cameroni is new instead of scum. Thinks KrO is godfather based on reaction to his vote.
6) Says that flarp deserves an FoS, and that KrO2 was overly scared of his vote.
7) Unvotes KrO2 because KrO2 started to seem reasonable. Votes US for being overaggressive.
Complains that no one pays any attention to him.

What I see: Less content than usual. Plays off his meta of voting and gauging reactions. Offers no opinion except for two accusations of “overaggression”. Unvotes KrO2 when it looks like he’s not going to be lynched. Votes US instead who (though she didn’t have any votes on her) looks like the safest lynch option.

Conclusion: He’s trying to play this very safe.

Vote: T1mm01994

[UniqueScreenname]

eculc is lurking mostly. Putting a lot of FoSes out. He defended KrO2 when few other people were. If KrO2 is scum, I'm going to suspect eculc. But if KrO2 is town, that will make me feel pretty good about eculc.

Teh only two people left are Tim and Cameroni. Tim's posting less content than I'd expect. Cameroni's posting less content than anyone ever. I have no reads other than "neutral" and "lurky newb who is making no effort" respectively.

You seem to be somewhat suspect of eculc and Tim, but then you put them in the townie section. This looks to me like trying not to show a connection to them but then subconsciously putting them in a spot where you can protect them.

[eculc]

@ adam: I'm not sure I could really fault him for playing it safe. it's not in his meta, but that's not necessarily a scumtell. I'm not sure I agree with the vote.

@ US: And I think you're just spilling wine all over the floor. TBH, accusing everyone doesn't help your position much.

Snark was right earlier; this is a difficult game--everyone's on the top of their game, for the most part (lurkers aside).

I'm going to FoS UniqueScreenname for now, because I'm leaving for an exam.

[Snark]

eculc is lurking mostly. Putting a lot of FoSes out. He defended KrO2 when few other people were. If KrO2 is scum, I'm going to suspect eculc. But if KrO2 is town, that will make me feel pretty good about eculc.

Teh only two people left are Tim and Cameroni. Tim's posting less content than I'd expect. Cameroni's posting less content than anyone ever. I have no reads other than "neutral" and "lurky newb who is making no effort" respectively.

You seem to be somewhat suspect of eculc and Tim, but then you put them in the townie section. This looks to me like trying not to show a connection to them but then subconsciously putting them in a spot where you can protect them.

I already explicitly stated my reason for putting eculc in the townie category.

eculc...defended KrO2 when few other people were.

With all the attention on KrO2, a scum would probably rather jump on the wagon than defend the person under suspicion. I also added the disclaimer that if KrO2 comes up scum, then obviously eculc will no longer look good for defending KrO2.

Tim was an oversight and belonged in the neutral category. Only reason I probably was thinking of him as town was that his vote was currently on the same person as my vote was.

[UniqueScreenname]

eculc is lurking mostly. Putting a lot of FoSes out. He defended KrO2 when few other people were. If KrO2 is scum, I'm going to suspect eculc. But if KrO2 is town, that will make me feel pretty good about eculc.

Teh only two people left are Tim and Cameroni. Tim's posting less content than I'd expect. Cameroni's posting less content than anyone ever. I have no reads other than "neutral" and "lurky newb who is making no effort" respectively.

You seem to be somewhat suspect of eculc and Tim, but then you put them in the townie section. This looks to me like trying not to show a connection to them but then subconsciously putting them in a spot where you can protect them.

I already explicitly stated my reason for putting eculc in the townie category.

eculc...defended KrO2 when few other people were.

With all the attention on KrO2, a scum would probably rather jump on the wagon than defend the person under suspicion. I also added the disclaimer that if KrO2 comes up scum, then obviously eculc will no longer look good for defending KrO2.

Tim was an oversight and belonged in the neutral category. Only reason I probably was thinking of him as town was that his vote was currently on the same person as my vote was.

But you believe KrO2 to be scum. In fact you're voting for him. Based on your own reasoning, if you believe KrO2 is scum, then you should believe eculc is scum for supporting him. Unless you know something we don't know.