Game of Throngs

[Diadem]

I want to see Stannis on the throne....

But what about Robb? Or Daenerys? Or Jon?

[CorruptUser]

I want to see Stannis on the throne....

But what about Robb? Or Daenerys? Or Jon?

Might be spoilerish, since mentioning them means they are alive.

Spoiler:

What, no one wants Petyr on the throne? Or Bran? My money is on Bran or Sam Tarly, if only because the bookie is giving me 500 to 1 odds. Hell, Rickon may still have a shot. Maybe Illyrio for all we know, as chaotic as GoT is.

[Lucrece]

Well, Davos can't be too praised about not being sure of victory. He was the person that advocated leaving their trump card out of the battle.

The Hound and



are just a joy to watch, though this episode should get Lena an emmy. I know most people like to focus on Dinklage and his sympathetic character, but Lena made Cersei her very own when the character had been planned originally for Clarice van Houten (who could not make it at the time, but was offered Melisandre afterwards; which she rocked).

Varys is also another surprising hit. Dany is less popular than in the books because what's worse than reading an entitled princess is hearing one whinging on TV.


Hound related

Spoiler:

I really has wish the Hound had gotten a chance to kill Gregor as some means of closure to his issues, but oh well

[ArgonV]

Spoiler:

I don't blame SlyReaper for not realizing that fire was a major problem for the Hound. Sure, he ducked away from a torch and didn't want flaming arrows shot at him, but who wouldn't do those things? It got better after that, but even so tv-watchers know nothing about the Hound except his appearance so I can see how it would've slipped through.

I don't agree

Spoiler:

Having only seen the show, it was obvious he was scared of fire, not in the slightest because Littlefinger told Sansa what happened to him, so that'd be pretty obvious.

[Ixtellor]

Question about last episode.

Spoiler:

The imp... was he hit by one of Geoffry's men or just one of the enemy attackers?

[Chen]

Question about last episode.

Spoiler:

The imp... was he hit by one of Geoffry's men or just one of the enemy attackers?

Spoiler:

It was Mandon Moore, one of Joffrey's Kingsguard

[Dream]

The only problem about this episode is that at a stroke, I now don't care what ahppens to anyone else but te King's Landing characters. I want to know how all of this falls out, and Jon, Robb, Bran and Danerys I'm just not as interested in.for this episode only:

Spoiler:

I loved The Hound and Bronn transitioning completely from Background Badasses to fully involved characters. Sansa and Cersei were great too. In fact, the long, slow building of The Hound's protectiveness towards Sansa, right from when Joffrey took the throne in Season 1, is one of the best things in the show.

What I really can't wait to see though, is Tywin finally getting Cersei and Joffrey face to face, the woman who wrecked the chances of a Lannister-run Westros by fucking her brother instead of the King, and the child who started a civil war because he's a conceitied little shit. Not to mention meeting up with Tyrion after such a successful appointment as Hand, and his defence of the city. And Jamie coming back after Sansa and Arya have escaped... there's so much going for the King's Landing storyline that none oftheothers can even touch right now.

[Chen]

Spoiler:

What I really can't wait to see though, is Tywin finally getting Cersei and Joffrey face to face, the woman who wrecked the chances of a Lannister-run Westros by fucking her brother instead of the King, and the child who started a civil war because he's a conceitied little shit. Not to mention meeting up with Tyrion after such a successful appointment as Hand, and his defence of the city. And Jamie coming back after Sansa and Arya have escaped... there's so much going for the King's Landing storyline that none oftheothers can even touch right now.

Spoiler:

It wasn't going to be a Lannister-run Westeros though. It would have been a Baratheon run Westeros. And Joffrey didn't start a civil war. The war had already started regardless of whether or not Joffrey killed Ned. I suppose its his fault for not stepping down, but why would Tywin want him to step down? He now has a puppet king he can control and ostensibly has MORE power than he would have if Robert was still alive.

[Dark567]

Spoiler:

It wasn't going to be a Lannister-run Westeros though. It would have been a Baratheon run Westeros. And Joffrey didn't start a civil war. The war had already started regardless of whether or not Joffrey killed Ned. I suppose its his fault for not stepping down, but why would Tywin want him to step down? He now has a puppet king he can control and ostensibly has MORE power than he would have if Robert was still alive.

Spoiler:

If Joffrey is king, lets be honest, its a Lannister-run Westeros not Baratheon, everyone knows where Joffrey's loyalty lies.

[Chen]

Spoiler:

It wasn't going to be a Lannister-run Westeros though. It would have been a Baratheon run Westeros. And Joffrey didn't start a civil war. The war had already started regardless of whether or not Joffrey killed Ned. I suppose its his fault for not stepping down, but why would Tywin want him to step down? He now has a puppet king he can control and ostensibly has MORE power than he would have if Robert was still alive.

Spoiler:

If Joffrey is king, lets be honest, its a Lannister-run Westeros not Baratheon, everyone knows where Joffrey's loyalty lies.

Spoiler:

Yes but I was responding to the statement that Cercei ruined a Lannister-run Westeros by fucking Jaime instead of Robert. That's not true. If she had just had Robert's child I don't imagine it would still have been a Lannister-run Westeros. There wouldn't have been a civil war, a Baratheon would be king and eventually he'd marry someone. If that someone was a Lannister ok they stay in power. If not, well tough luck I guess. Even if she still killed Robert, the Baratheon king would have had support from the rest of the people and the Lannisters would have had LESS power.

[Ended]

[Kinda book spoilers]

Spoiler:

In the book, Loras (or one of his men, at least) was wearing Renly's armor, which I was surprised that they didn't go through with, since Renly did have really distinctive armor and I think that would have worked nicely. Tyrion saw somebody who had some little horns on his helmet, but that's about it.

Spoiler:

I think when Tywin et. al. come into the throne room, Loras is wearing Renly's armour (when he takes his helmet off with a flourish).

[ArgonV]

Things that aren't entirely clear to me (both recent episode and season 1):

Spoiler:

Why did that Kingsguard guy try to kill Tyrion?
Who is dragging Stannis off? His own men or Lannister guards?

Season 1: Do we even know for sure who tried to kill Bran? I don't think I heard anyone confessing it, although most of the Lannisters and Littlefinger were implied
Likewise, is it known who actually killed Jon Arryn? Ser Hugh is implied and killed before Ned can talk to him, but nothing definitive is known

Or will these plot points be resolved later in the books?

[LaserGuy]

The only problem about this episode is that at a stroke, I now don't care what ahppens to anyone else but te King's Landing characters. I want to know how all of this falls out, and Jon, Robb, Bran and Danerys I'm just not as interested in.for this episode only:

Spoiler:

I loved The Hound and Bronn transitioning completely from Background Badasses to fully involved characters. Sansa and Cersei were great too. In fact, the long, slow building of The Hound's protectiveness towards Sansa, right from when Joffrey took the throne in Season 1, is one of the best things in the show.

What I really can't wait to see though, is Tywin finally getting Cersei and Joffrey face to face, the woman who wrecked the chances of a Lannister-run Westros by fucking her brother instead of the King, and the child who started a civil war because he's a conceitied little shit. Not to mention meeting up with Tyrion after such a successful appointment as Hand, and his defence of the city. And Jamie coming back after Sansa and Arya have escaped... there's so much going for the King's Landing storyline that none oftheothers can even touch right now.

While I don't disagree that King's Landing is the most obvious focal point for the action in the foreseeable future, I think you'll find that many of the other storylines that have been dragging on a bit this season will start to pick up either in the finale or early in the next season. You might not care what happens to them, but at least they'll start getting more interesting things to do

Spoiler:

Who is dragging Stannis off? His own men or Lannister guards?

Only going to discuss this one because it pertains to the show.

Spoiler:

It was his own men. You can tell by the armor and the fact that they weren't stabbing him.

The rest of your questions will be resolved later and would be major book spoilers to reveal them.

[Dream]

You might not care what happens to them, but at least they'll start getting more interesting things to do

Ha I just meant their slightly samey, plodding plots have been a bit overshadowed. I still care what happens to the characters, I'm just going to be disappointed if the next Episode isn't just Tywin sorting out his stupid family...

Spoiler:

Yes but I was responding to the statement that Cercei ruined a Lannister-run Westeros by fucking Jaime instead of Robert. That's not true. If she had just had Robert's child I don't imagine it would still have been a Lannister-run Westeros. There wouldn't have been a civil war, a Baratheon would be king and eventually he'd marry someone. If that someone was a Lannister ok they stay in power. If not, well tough luck I guess. Even if she still killed Robert, the Baratheon king would have had support from the rest of the people and the Lannisters would have had LESS power.

Well, ok, maybe less by doing it than by getting caught at it. She shifted the legitimacy of the throne away from the Lannister family, leaving them essentially zero claim besides physical posession. That led to Joffrey's massacre of innocents, and thus to the loss of popular support he suffered. The alternative would have been to have a true claim, however weaker than the Baratheon one, and following from that to leave Ned Stark on the Throne as Hand until Joffrey was grown up and less of an incompetent prick. They could comfortably have been the real power in King's Landing because Stark was so crap at politics. They'd then position themselves to take over actual sovereignty by having Joffrey name a full Lannister heir, or something similar. Perhaps a scheme to frame the Baratheons for treason.

Now, it looks a lot like(TV speculation)

Spoiler:

There will be a Tyrrell queen. Littlefinger seems to have set that up between Renly's widow and Tywin. So the Lannister claim receds a little further, and their power becomes even more about influence and military victory.

[LaserGuy]

Interesting aside... I think I can get away with not spoiling this.

In the show, I think in Episode 9, it is mentioned that Joffrey is seventeen. This creates a bit of a problem when compared to earlier in the series where Robert asks Ned to serve as Lord Protector until Joffrey comes of age. Surely in a society like this, he's already of age if he's seventeen, right? In the book this makes a little more sense, because all of the children are quite a bit younger than they're portrayed. I think Joffrey is twelve or thirteen in the books.

[Chen]

Well, ok, maybe less by doing it than by getting caught at it. She shifted the legitimacy of the throne away from the Lannister family, leaving them essentially zero claim besides physical posession. That led to Joffrey's massacre of innocents, and thus to the loss of popular support he suffered. The alternative would have been to have a true claim, however weaker than the Baratheon one, and following from that to leave Ned Stark on the Throne as Hand until Joffrey was grown up and less of an incompetent prick. They could comfortably have been the real power in King's Landing because Stark was so crap at politics. They'd then position themselves to take over actual sovereignty by having Joffrey name a full Lannister heir, or something similar. Perhaps a scheme to frame the Baratheons for treason.

Without the incest though people would have still supported the throne and the real heir to the throne and there wouldn't be any war. The Lannisters would continue to be on the Queen's side until the Baratheons decided to marry one of their male heirs to someone else and then the Lannisters would be gone. The Queen's influence would have been much less if Stark, Renly and Stannis were still present.

[Zohar]

I thought the episode was done really well. A few comments (only spoilers about last episode):

Spoiler:

Why didn't Tyrian spread the green fire on the beach, or closer? Did they expect to finish the battle in one strike?
I thought in the previous episode Tywin decided to march on Robb's army during the night, which was why Arya was so anxious to go with him. Now it turns out he came to King's Landing. Did I hear wrongly? If not, was this explained during the show? Come to think of it, if Arya is still with Tywin then perhaps King's Landing is not the best place to be seen in...
About Tyrian, I really hope he lives. There is a precedent for him losing consciousness during a battle and then waking up later. Let's hope that's his super power or something.
Lastly, about Dany's dragons - does anyone else think perhaps the house of the undying will somehow make the dragons age faster, or something similar? I don't seriously see her becoming a threat otherwise during the lifetime of the books...

[Dark567]

I thought the episode was done really well. A few comments (only spoilers about last episode):

Spoiler:

I thought in the previous episode Tywin decided to march on Robb's army during the night, which was why Arya was so anxious to go with him. Now it turns out he came to King's Landing. Did I hear wrongly? If not, was this explained during the show? Come to think of it, if Arya is still with Tywin then perhaps King's Landing is not the best place to be seen in...

Episode Spoilers:

Spoiler:

He definitely said he was going to march against Robb. So I think this will be explained later.
I suspect that he figured out Arya was a Stark(or maybe that she was from Winterfell), and purposefully misinformed her where he was going. But we will see.

[pseudoidiot]

Continuing the above:

Spoiler:

Chances are, he just wanted to mislead anyone that was being left behind. Anyone coming along would soon know the real plan and he'd have more control to keep it under wraps. But, those left behind in Harrenhall, anyone could be a spy, best for them to think he's going another direction.

As for Arya, she's not with Tywin any longer. He was riding off and leaving her behind, that's why she was desperate to get Jaqen to kill him, but when he refused, she decided to escape instead.

[LaserGuy]

I thought the episode was done really well. A few comments (only spoilers about last episode):

Spoiler:

Why didn't Tyrian spread the green fire on the beach, or closer? Did they expect to finish the battle in one strike?
I thought in the previous episode Tywin decided to march on Robb's army during the night, which was why Arya was so anxious to go with him. Now it turns out he came to King's Landing. Did I hear wrongly? If not, was this explained during the show? Come to think of it, if Arya is still with Tywin then perhaps King's Landing is not the best place to be seen in...
About Tyrian, I really hope he lives. There is a precedent for him losing consciousness during a battle and then waking up later. Let's hope that's his super power or something.
Lastly, about Dany's dragons - does anyone else think perhaps the house of the undying will somehow make the dragons age faster, or something similar? I don't seriously see her becoming a threat otherwise during the lifetime of the books...

Mostly episode stuff...

Spoiler:

He might have been afraid of burning the city with the wildfire. I think the pyromancer said it could melt stone, so having it near the walls might have been a bad idea as well.

I think the scene with Tywin was made to lead you to believe he was going after Robb, so as not to give away the big reveal. Arya is not still with Tywin. She left Harrenhaal separately with her friends in the end of the previous episode, with some assistance from her assassin friend.

It will be interesting how they handle the House of the Undying in the show... I won't spoil anything about that, except to say that the book it's a very interesting scene and has great significance for the rest of her plotline, if not the entire story. It will have to be handled delicately because it could confuse a lot of viewers who don't have the details of the backstory, depending on what they decide to include.

On the dragons specifically (book info).

Spoiler:

Dragons in Westeros grow relatively quickly compared to other stories.

[maybeagnostic]

Spoiler:

Why didn't Tyrian spread the green fire on the beach, or closer? Did they expect to finish the battle in one strike?

Spoiler:

The fire is more than hot enough to melt the city walls and impossible to put out- once it starts burning that near the city there is not way to control it. He exploded in the river/bay because the current would wash it out to sea even if it keeps burning for a long time underwater.

I was rather disappointed by the battle scenes. I remember this fight having a very desperate and claustrophobic feel in the book (comparison between 2.09 and same part of the book)

Spoiler:

perhaps mainly because it was told entirely through the PoV of Tyrion and Davos- one of them couldn't see very far into the melee for obvious reasons and the other was trapped between many burning ships watching his sons getting consumed by the fire. The explosion in the episode was beautiful but it lacked the hopelessness of being trapped on a burning ship and unable to escape.

The way Stannis was portrayed really pissed me off. The books never presented him as the kind of leader who would lead the charge, let alone be the first to scale the wall in a siege. That kind of reckless behavior and battle feber is typical of Robert and completely alien to Stannis.

That said, most other scenes were really good. Concentrating on a single place made the story feel much more coherent and the episode went by much faster than the previous ones.(more comparison between 2.09 and book scenes)

Spoiler:

The Hound was presented as much more likeable and in control in this episode, especially in his conversation with Sansa. It looked like he made a rational decision that he feared the fire too much and didn't like his place at court enough to risk confronting his fear. He was supposed to be too drunk and terrified to think clearly, scare Sansa half to death and then run off without really realizing what he was doing.

[Dark567]

Episode review

Spoiler:

Honestly I thought the new episode was alright, but no where as good as the penultimate episode from season 1. I think the battle showed a lot of the limits of a television budget. Like, it was fine but not overwhelmingly good. The battles felt like they were between dozens or maybe hundreds of men*, not the thousands the show claimed. The Cersai and Sansa and the rest of the women scenes were good from the aspects of acting and their interactions, but I feel like it was to removed from the battle and not tense enough because of the battle(Although the conversations were tense for other reasons). I just felt like the holdfast didn't seem like it was in the middle of war when any moment hundreds of men might barge in and kill/rape everyone.

*Because in reality I am sure that's about how many were there.

[LaserGuy]

I'm assuming this was a budget issue, but on a tactical note...

Spoiler:

Does it make the slightest bit of sense to be leading sorties from the castle on foot? It seems to be kind of monstrously risky and stupid to do this without horses, especially if you are outnumbered.

[Dream]

I'm assuming this was a budget issue, but on a tactical note...

Spoiler:

Does it make the slightest bit of sense to be leading sorties from the castle on foot? It seems to be kind of monstrously risky and stupid to do this without horses, especially if you are outnumbered.

It's a calculated risk. Yes, it's extremely risky for those involved, but it's extremely risky for the whole city to not do anything and wait until the walls are breached. So maybe you lose the men you send out, maybe not. If you don't send them, you're probably going to lose the wall. The latter is much, much worse.

[lucrezaborgia]

Spoiler:

The way Stannis was portrayed really pissed me off. The books never presented him as the kind of leader who would lead the charge, let alone be the first to scale the wall in a siege. That kind of reckless behavior and battle feber is typical of Robert and completely alien to Stannis.

Spoiler:

It makes more sense in the context of the series than the books. Stannis is single-minded man who wants that throne and is willing to sacrifice the lives of thousands of people to get it. However, those men aren't going to fight without him and the show needs to have Stannis in contrast to Joffery. Don't forget Stannis's god-complex thanks to Melisandre and why wouldn't he lead the charge?

[maybeagnostic]

Spoiler:

The way Stannis was portrayed really pissed me off. The books never presented him as the kind of leader who would lead the charge, let alone be the first to scale the wall in a siege. That kind of reckless behavior and battle feber is typical of Robert and completely alien to Stannis.

Spoiler:

It makes more sense in the context of the series than the books. Stannis is single-minded man who wants that throne and is willing to sacrifice the lives of thousands of people to get it. However, those men aren't going to fight without him and the show needs to have Stannis in contrast to Joffery. Don't forget Stannis's god-complex thanks to Melisandre and why wouldn't he lead the charge?

Spoiler:

I always though book-Stannis was never converted by Melissandre. He was just using her for her powers and influence as much as she was using him.

Stannis is a very competent commander that will always share his soldier's suffering but, like Tywin, he always seemed to realize the front line is not the best place for the general/king. In the show his men had to physically pull him off the wall because he had gone berserk.

[lucrezaborgia]

[

Spoiler:

I always though book-Stannis was never converted by Melissandre. He was just using her for her powers and influence as much as she was using him.

Stannis is a very competent commander that will always share his soldier's suffering but, like Tywin, he always seemed to realize the front line is not the best place for the general/king. In the show his men had to physically pull him off the wall because he had gone berserk.

This isn't the book tho. We don't have pages and pages to figure out people's motivations. There was no real way to portray this the way they did in the books without massive confusion to the audience.

[Diadem]

Well Stannis is the guy who always does everything right. By the letter of the law, not the spirit. He's smart in his own way, but he's prepared to do hugely stupid things just because they are the right thing to do.

Leading the charge during a battle? Well, he's the king. He's supposed to be brave. So he leads the charge. It's the right thing to do.

[guenther]

I didn't know this thread was here until now, though I should have guessed. I'm having a lot of fun with the show, especially the Blackwater episode. In fact, I like all of it so far except what they're doing with Jon Snow up north. My favorite stuff was with Arya and Tywin and now with Brienne and Jaime. I can't wait to see how they handle that whole storyline next season. And actually there's so much from A Storm of Swords that I'm very excited for.

I've been a big fan of the books since A Clash of Kings came out in the late nineties, and it's basically my favorite book series. I remember being so excited when I heard they were making a show. And now we get to watch the production team go through another round of castings for the new characters next year. The sad part is that after next episode we'll have to wait another year to watch more. But that's the way it goes!

As for Stannis, I was a little put off by his charge into battle. It just felt out of character to me. But I can understand why the show did it. It shows us something about Stannis while juxtaposing him with Joffrey. Anyway, this is a really minor nitpick in an overall great episode.

[LaserGuy]

Only really sad part is we have to wait till next year now before we get more GoT

Episode:

Spoiler:

Loved how they ended it out. The scene with the oncoming white walkers was just epic.

I think the scenes in the Tower of the Undying were very nicely done. I almost wish that they had sent her in there in Episode 8 so she could spend more time there. In the early parts of the season her scenes kind of dragged on anyway. Giving her one less scene of being a whiny princess and more time there would have been appreciated, I think. Still, really liked how they resolved her storyline for the season.

Related book spoilers (up to book 5):

Spoiler:

I think the big question is what happens to Theon. I think they are going to make a big change to his storyline in order to keep him in the series consistently since he'd otherwise be out of commission until season 5? 6? I'm not sure if he'll end up back at the Iron Islands or what, but I think they'll do something or other to keep him around before dumping him off with the Boltons in time for the start of Dance with Dragons. I think it's also an open question of whether or not it was the Ironmen or the Boltons that razed Winterfell. I guess it doesn't matter that much, since in reality nobody in the books actually knows that Ramsay did it. I'm a little disappointed that Ramsay wasn't introduced, but I guess if he isn't going to play a big part until Season 5 or so, they might as well wait. It's an important role and it will be interesting to see who they cast.

I'm not surprised they cut out most of the prophecies in the House of the Undying. There's too much there, and it would either have to be really obvious or it would just totally go over the heads of the non-book people. I thought in the books that Xaro Xhoan Daxos was gay in the books though? Also, does this mean Dany has lots all three of her handmaidens now? Or is the third one left and I just don't remember her?

[Dream]

I was all like, David Bowie better be holding he dragons when she finds them.

But is that really it for the season? There wasn't really any summation of any of the plots, except maybe Stannis and the Tyrrells.

And also:

Spoiler:

I thought Sansa left with the Hound. What was up with that? Why was she still in King's Landing, and where is the Hound?

[LaserGuy]

But is that really it for the season? There wasn't really any summation of any of the plots, except maybe Stannis and the Tyrrells.

It's setting up for next season. In a limited sense, I think a lot of the arcs of this season were resolved though. A lot of the characters are moving from one location to another or from one crisis to another. For example:

(show only)

Spoiler:

Dany now can get a ship out of Qarth.
Arya is no longer in Harrenhaal, and no longer a prisoner.
Jon is now in league with the wildlings.
Theon has left Winterfell.
Bran has left Winterfell.

And also:

Spoiler:

I thought Sansa left with the Hound. What was up with that? Why was she still in King's Landing, and where is the Hound?

(show only)

Spoiler:

No, he leaves without her. He walks out of the room, and closes the door behind him. She hasn't moved.

[edit]
Unrelated book 3 spoilers (major):

Spoiler:

Why is Robb going to return to the North? Presumably he's going to receive word that Winterfell was sacked and his brothers are dead, and possibly also word of the Tyrell/Lannister alliance and Stannis' defeat. Will this send his forces back to the North? Or something else?

Also... who is going to get married at the Red Wedding? Will Edmure suddenly appear in the story after all this time? They haven't really done the Tully plot at all.

[maybeagnostic]

Unrelated book 3 spoilers (major):

Spoiler:

Why is Robb going to return to the North? Presumably he's going to receive word that Winterfell was sacked and his brothers are dead, and possibly also word of the Tyrell/Lannister alliance and Stannis' defeat. Will this send his forces back to the North? Or something else?

Also... who is going to get married at the Red Wedding? Will Edmure suddenly appear in the story after all this time? They haven't really done the Tully plot at all.

Spoiler:

Do the Tullys even exist in the show? They mentioned Catelyn and Lisa were sisters but did they even mention what their House is called?

I feel a little disappointed the episode returned to the vignette approach for telling the story. It's particularly bad for the Night's Watch- they haven't gotten a scene longer than a couple of minutes since the beginning of the season.

[LaserGuy]

Unrelated book 3 spoilers (major):

Spoiler:

Why is Robb going to return to the North? Presumably he's going to receive word that Winterfell was sacked and his brothers are dead, and possibly also word of the Tyrell/Lannister alliance and Stannis' defeat. Will this send his forces back to the North? Or something else?

Also... who is going to get married at the Red Wedding? Will Edmure suddenly appear in the story after all this time? They haven't really done the Tully plot at all.

Spoiler:

Do the Tullys even exist in the show? They mentioned Catelyn and Lisa were sisters but did they even mention what their House is called?

Spoiler:

At least one occasion it is mentioned. Maester Luwin is instructing Bran in season 1 about the houses, and they talk a bit about the Tully words, although it's mostly connected to Catelyn's leaving Winterfell. I think it comes up again when Gregor Clegane is robbing the Riverlands. They dump a bunch of trout in front of the Iron Throne, and Littlefinger comments something to the effect of "Isn't the trout the sigil of your wife's family?"

I feel a little disappointed the episode returned to the vignette approach for telling the story. It's particularly bad for the Night's Watch- they haven't gotten a scene longer than a couple of minutes since the beginning of the season.

The Night's Watch doesn't have much of a role in the 2nd book IIRC. A lot of the Night's Watch material this season is new material actually, and some of the events in the last couple of episodes are from the 3rd book, I think. The 2nd book is something like 40% King's Landing (via Tyrion and Sansa), 20% Arya, 20% Winterfell/Iron Isles (via Bran/Theon) and the balance made up by Davos, Catelyn, Jon, and Dany, so they've had to stretch those last four storylines a fair bit this season (and it shows, IMHO).

[Lucrece]

I liked how Dany channeled in a trance a command for her dragons to incinerate Pyat. I understand the show's on a tight budget, but I wish the effects had done more justice to the House of the Undying. I pictured it far more differently, and it appears like they cut the warlock storyline that would come back in the later books short by making it a single warlock in charge who got roasted.

The one change I do like is more Osha. I really like Osha. And Varys.

Spoiler:

Also, is it weird that the death that moved me the most in the episodes thus far was Luwin's?

[Adam H]

*edited to add spoiler tag*

Spoiler:

Also, is it weird that the death that moved me the most in the episodes thus far was Luwin's?

Mine was definitely Lady's. Is that weirder?

[Dark567]

Spoiler:

Also, is it weird that the death that moved me the most in the episodes thus far was Luwin's?

Spoiler:

Mine was definitely Lady's. Is that weirder?

SPOILERS!

...I'm just gonna avoid this thread until I get go home and watch the episode. :-/

[Adam H]

Haha, mine was from S1E2 so I'm pretty sure I'm safe.

[ArgonV]

Spoiler:

Also, is it weird that the death that moved me the most in the episodes thus far was Luwin's?

Same here

[quantumcat42]

Unrelated book 3 spoilers (major):

Spoiler:

Why is Robb going to return to the North? Presumably he's going to receive word that Winterfell was sacked and his brothers are dead, and possibly also word of the Tyrell/Lannister alliance and Stannis' defeat. Will this send his forces back to the North? Or something else?

Also... who is going to get married at the Red Wedding? Will Edmure suddenly appear in the story after all this time? They haven't really done the Tully plot at all.

Spoiler:

Do the Tullys even exist in the show? They mentioned Catelyn and Lisa were sisters but did they even mention what their House is called?

Spoiler:

They're auditioning people for Edmure and the Blackfish to show up in Season 3.