Dark Knight Rises

[JudeMorrigan]

A closer pick of the Catwoman costume. The cat ears definitely seem to be a byproduct of her having her goggles up, so to speak.

Spoiler:

[broken_escalator]

I forgot, am I angry at the goggles in general or was it the lack of ears.

[Zarq]

The goggles look weird. They look like plastic lace.

[freakish777]

Umm, how intelligent was it? It was an action thriller that discuss some basic philosophy 101 morality, with a plot more complex than the mainstream action flick. That doesn't make it an arthouse film. It's still, in it's essence, a "dumb action flick"

Did you entirely miss the social commentary on the Bush administration (and/or US Foreign Policy in general) and Batman's seeming agreement with it "for the greater good" ??

Batman breaks a mob bosses legs to get answers, and has Gordon pretend to turn a blind eye to him torturing Joker (oh hai Guantanamo Bay/torture is ok), performs black ops in a foreign nation that he shouldn't have jurisdiction in/the right to do in order to bring a criminal to justice (drone strikes in Pakistan anyone? they were happening since before the movie came out), and hijacks everyone's cell phone data (surveillance without a warrant, in case you're unaware, current US Wiretapping Laws which mandates that law enforcement get a warrant to listen to your conversations excludes Cellular technology since it doesn't physically have a wire, and under out of date laws are more accurately described as "2 way radios", basically no one has made an issue out of this to pass updated laws because "how else are we supposed to fight terrorism?") in order to find Joker.

The character played by Morgan Freeman in the movie ultimately decides he doesn't like what's being done (on the surveillance issue), but will help "only this one time" and then dismantle the surveillance, for fear that if used repeatedly it would ultimately erode freedom of privacy. His character doesn't trust Bruce Wayne to not go down a slippery slope with that type of power.

It is nowhere near "philosophy 101 morality discussions."

[keozen]

PSA TIME

A quick heads up for any UK peeps who read the Guardian.

Are you wondering if the Guardian review is spoiler free?
Well, it's choc full of spoilers and I didn't have to pay for them so I suppose TECHNICALLY yes, but in this case technically correct isn't the best kind.

If you want to remain sans-spoilers then avoid the Guardian review. The general non-spoiler gist is positive and it gives the film 4/5 stars.

[Zarq]

Don't read ANYTHING about it. There are spoilers everywhere.

[Adam H]

Here's some spoilers from someone who hasn't even seen a trailer:

Spoiler:

Batman is convinced to come back out in the open and rescue Gotham after villainous Bane does something awful in the name of his greater good. His first attempt to apprehend Bane fails miserably. Broken in body and spirit, he mopes around, missing his one true love, hoping to find a spark. He meets catgirl, who he takes for a petty criminal. He grows to respect her abilities, and perhaps a part of him even loves her, but he knows such a love could never be.

Together, they take down Bane's empire just as disaster falls over the entire city. Batman saves the day, mostly. But right at the end, when it seems like Batman is a shoo-in to receive the key to the city and the praise of its denizens, he... doesn't for some reason. Cause he's dark and brooding, I guess.

Hmmm, the end needs some work. Maybe I'll have to see the movie after all.

[TheGrammarBolshevik]

I am so fucking ready for this shit.

[thicknavyrain]

PSA TIME

A quick heads up for any UK peeps who read the Guardian.

Are you wondering if the Guardian review is spoiler free?
Well, it's choc full of spoilers and I didn't have to pay for them so I suppose TECHNICALLY yes, but in this case technically correct isn't the best kind.

If you want to remain sans-spoilers then avoid the Guardian review. The general non-spoiler gist is positive and it gives the film 4/5 stars.

Thanks, I was very likely to wind up reading it at some point today. Spoilerage averted...

[roband]

Leaving work now, movie starts in 20. FUCK YEAH

[Zohar]

I'm seeing it tomorrow. I was pretty shocked at the news today, and I think I'll feel a bit weird watching it.

[EdgarJPublius]

It was definitely weird getting home from the showing last night and reading the news on reddit.

[Weeks]

Its metacritic score keeps lowering. Last week it was 84 I believe. Now it's sitting at about 78. I'm still going to watch it if I can.

[charliepanayi]

78 is still very good for a film on Metacritic (The Avengers has a score of 69 on there for instance)

[Zohar]

Just came back from it. Spoiler-free impressions:

Spoiler:

I thought it was OK. I didn't love the previous films and I don't love this one either. The action scenes were good, the story raised some interesting issues. My main problems with it are, surprisingly, the same problem I had with Spiderman - every character is a genius (certified or otherwise), and yet they make stupid, stupid decisions. It feels like lazy writing.

[Christo]

Just in case you didn't see the big word "SPOILERS" on the topic page:

Spoiler:

Can anyone explain to me the villainous plan? I mean, why wait five months before sploding the bomb? Why not just set it off right away? What with with the whole "I'm setting you free" theatrics? Did I miss something?

[Dark567]

Just in case you didn't see the big word "SPOILERS" on the topic page:

Spoiler:

Can anyone explain to me the villainous plan? I mean, why wait five months before sploding the bomb? Why not just set it off right away? What with with the whole "I'm setting you free" theatrics? Did I miss something?

Spoiler:

I think the idea was that it was supposed to be torture. When Wayne was in the prison, they made the comment about how there has to be hope in order to truly be tortured emotionally.
...Granted I think that's completely inaccurate psychologically, but that was the idea.

[Dark567]

Spoiler-free impressions

Spoiler:

Pretty good, not as good as the last one. Thought the beginning was kinda slow but definitely picked up. Looking forward to seeing it again eventually on DVD.

Minor spoiler'd nitpick:

Spoiler:

So when they were exiling people out on to the thin ice... Was everyone just an idiot? Don't you know that if you have to cross thin ice you lay down and move slowly to reduce pressure and spread out your weight?

Major spoilers on the ending:

Spoiler:

Man, that was way happier than I imagined. Pretty much assumed half way through Wayne was going to be dead in the end, so honestly a little surprised he and really no one else(the Deputy police chief I guess, but he was pretty minor) sacrificed their life. I guess the ending was almost a little to happy and perfect, but its comic book world so maybe I should just accept it.

[Christo]

Spoiler:

If memory serves, in Batman Begins, Ra's al Ghul's motivation was to destroy Gotham because it was evil (which in and of itself seems silly "Let's kill innocents so that no more innocents will be killed"). So, if the idea here was to finish what he started, why would they torture innocent people?

[Weeks]

Someone on reddit drew a comparison...oh fuck it, here's the pic. Haven't watched the last one so I can't really opine.

Spoiler:

[Dark567]

Someone on reddit drew a comparison...oh fuck it, here's the pic. Haven't watched the last one so I can't really opine.

Spoiler:

That was actually the exact analogy I had when describing it to a friend. Its completely accurate.

[aleflamedyud]

I came for the Revolution and stayed for the Batman.

[aleflamedyud]

Spoiler:

If memory serves, in Batman Begins, Ra's al Ghul's motivation was to destroy Gotham because it was evil (which in and of itself seems silly "Let's kill innocents so that no more innocents will be killed"). So, if the idea here was to finish what he started, why would they torture innocent people?

Because the League of Shadows doesn't believe Gotham's average citizens are innocent. It believes they're complicit in the city's sins by their passive assent and active participation.

That said, the precise ideological views taken on what Gotham's sins actually are have varied hugely between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight Rises. In the former, the sins were criminality and lawlessness. In the latter, corruption and inequality.

[keozen]

Another amusing Reddit stolen comparison for the finale (spoilers obv)

Spoiler:

[Christo]

Spoiler:

If memory serves, in Batman Begins, Ra's al Ghul's motivation was to destroy Gotham because it was evil (which in and of itself seems silly "Let's kill innocents so that no more innocents will be killed"). So, if the idea here was to finish what he started, why would they torture innocent people?

Because the League of Shadows doesn't believe Gotham's average citizens are innocent. It believes they're complicit in the city's sins by their passive assent and active participation.

That said, the precise ideological views taken on what Gotham's sins actually are have varied hugely between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight Rises. In the former, the sins were criminality and lawlessness. In the latter, corruption and inequality.

If that's true, I've got a question:

Spoiler:

Why take the time to tear down the rich if they're just going to kill them all later? I mean, what's the point of the five month gap?

[freakish777]

Spoiler:

Why take the time to tear down the rich if they're just going to kill them all later? I mean, what's the point of the five month gap?

When Bane is talking to Batman at The Pit, doesn't he insinuate that the idea is to torture him, make him watch his failure, then help the League of Shadows in some way? Or did I mishear that? One of my only complaints about the movie was that I couldn't quite make out some of Bane's lines.


Twist:

I didn't see it coming, but felt like I should have. I knew something was amiss. In the first fight Bane tells Batman the shadows are his allies and not Batman's because "I didn't see the sun until I was a grown man." Later, "the child" escapes as a child, and clearly sees the sun as not a grown man. There's also no mask on the child when the escape is made, which doesn't line up with the old guy's story of why Bane wears the mask.


Theme:

I think the most interesting theme of the film (even if it was a little blunt) was of trusting those you're trying to protect. Alfred point blank asks Bruce why he didn't hand over the fruits of his military research to police forces (which of course ends up in the hands of Bane), and the twist ultimately poses the same question in the end. It's a little forceful in it's "You must trust people to be able to protect themselves, and that on the whole they're good and won't try to do wrong." All of Batman's failures in this movie are due to his distrust of people (weapons stolen by Bane, distrust of the Fusion generator to the general pubic, distrust in Bruce Wayne instead of trust in Batman, falling out with Alfred which could maybe be construed as a trust issue). Meanwhile his accomplishments all come when he trusts (himself to make the jump without the rope, Catwoman, the police on the ground).

[JudeMorrigan]

One of my only complaints about the movie was that I couldn't quite make out some of Bane's lines.

While I enjoyed the movie immensely, I'm not going to lie: one of my first thoughts as I walked out of the theater was, "well, that's going to be one to watch with subtitles when I get it on bluray".

[EdgarJPublius]

Really? I heard all of Bane's line's crystal clear. In fact, in some places it seemed out of place, like in the plane scene at the beginning, it sounded like his voice had just been dubbed over the rest of the audio, and in other places it seemed unnecessarily amplified.

[TheGrammarBolshevik]

Yeah, I had the same impression as EdgarJPublius. Though I assumed that the mask was supposed to include some sort of amplifier.

[pseudoidiot]

I've seen a number of people say they also had issues understanding Bane sometimes (I'm one of them, and actually not just Ban'es, I don't think the audio mixing was done well in the theater), but about the same number of people saying they had no problem.

Also, did anyone else think he sounded like Deckard Cain?

[Ryom]

Another amusing Reddit stolen comparison for the finale (spoilers obv)

Spoiler:

Awesome!

[Ryom]

Most of Bane's lines I understood, but there were bits and pieces that I couldn't quite make out.

[pseudoidiot]

Bane wasn't the only one I had a hard time with.

Spoiler:

Some of the old man's exposition in the pit I had a hard time following. Luckily context was able to fill in most of the gaps.

[Zohar]

It's very nice sometimes to have subtitles in Hebrew when watching films.

Another thing that I didn't find believable - as paranoid as Batman is,

Spoiler:

he doesn't have an override command to disable all the vehicles he owns?

[Lucrece]

Maybe she was also good at hacking objects.

I'm glad people have been proven wrong about Anne Hathaway's fitness to play Catwoman as they were wrong about Heath Ledger's Joker.

[keozen]

Yeah, Anne Hathaway was great in this. Crowey and I were chatting on our way back from the cinema and our conclusions were that she seems to have been let down by the roles she's taken in the past that haven't really showed off what she can do and that she's kinda suffered a little bit from being a teen actress in things like the Princess Diaries and having people simply remember her for those things alone a lot of the time. She did really well in this I think.

Also, I think the Bane lines were re-done after the first comiccon trailer and all the complaints as to not being able to hear him then. This may, in some way, explain why his voice sounds removed from the rest of the scene at some points.

[freakish777]

Really? I heard all of Bane's line's crystal clear. In fact, in some places it seemed out of place, like in the plane scene at the beginning, it sounded like his voice had just been dubbed over the rest of the audio, and in other places it seemed unnecessarily amplified.

It wasn't a "I couldn't hear him" issue, but a "I can't understand what he's saying" issue in some parts. I think it primarily had to do with his unique voice.

(Not that this is the case here, but) Excessive amplification leads to distortion.

[Jesse]

Yeah, Anne Hathaway was great in this. Crowey and I were chatting on our way back from the cinema and our conclusions were that she seems to have been let down by the roles she's taken in the past that haven't really showed off what she can do and that she's kinda suffered a little bit from being a teen actress in things like the Princess Diaries and having people simply remember her for those things alone a lot of the time. She did really well in this I think.

Also, I think the Bane lines were re-done after the first comiccon trailer and all the complaints as to not being able to hear him then. This may, in some way, explain why his voice sounds removed from the rest of the scene at some points.

Yes, the Bane lines were re-done, because that first trailer was released before the post-prod work had been done, including re-recording lines said through masks or outdoors etc. I recall it being well reported at the time that Nolan was well annoyed about them releasing a trailer before they'd done that and everything sounding shit.

[Deep_Thought]

Bane's dialogue annoyed the hell out of me. There were a couple of lines that were unintelligible, but also the levels were all kinds of wrong. Particularly in his first scenes his voice just seemed to leap out of nowhere in a fairly disconcerting manner. I also disliked the design of his mask, because I like to see people move their mouths. Maybe I subconsciously lip read, I don't know. But, I freely admit that this problem is fairly unavoidable given that it's Bane.

Spoiler:

The supposed passage of time in this movie was so weird it broke my suspension of disbelief. It's 8 years since TDK, so how old is Bruce supposed to be now? Like mid-30s? Then what age does that make Bane and Talia? Given that Bane superficially looks younger than Bruce but has to be sufficiently older than Talia to be able to protect her in the pit, and that all happens before Bruce joins the League of Shadows, and Talia is supposedly both rich enough and wields enough influence in Gotham society to host a successful charity ball. Reaching such a position takes time.

As if to rub salt into that particular wound, the whole last act is supposed to take place over 5 months. That's apparently enough time for Bruce to recover from his severely injured back, and yet police-men who have been holed up below ground are apparently fine and dandy, with pristine uniforms to boot. The US government must have been supplying quite a large amount of washing powder and vitamin D tablets during that time Bruce's injuries also seemed to magically worsen or improve as the plot demanded (where did his awesome robo-leg support go?).

Overall, it pleasantly killed a couple of hours but it's nowhere close to the standard set by The Dark Knight. Or The Avengers for that matter.

[freakish777]

Spoiler:

Bruce's injuries also seemed to magically worsen or improve as the plot demanded (where did his awesome robo-leg support go?).

Clearly, Bane took it off of him, and then Bruce no longer needed it, because his leg magi-healed along with his back.