1076: "Groundhog Day"

[marsman57]

I read this and thought it was mediocre at best, but then I came here hoping to find out something I missed only to be further disillusioned. First, it had been a long time since I saw Groundhog Day, so I didn't remember they didn't do it. Also, that led me to research about the number of days in a pregnancy and the most common values online are 265 or 266 instead of 264.

And unmentioned is the fact that February 3rd-October 23rd is only 262 days. He not only had to make the mistake of calculating from February 2nd (which doesn't make sense since he said "264 days later" in a panel after talking about February 3rd), but he would have had to make it inclusive which doesn't make sense either. That would be like saying February 3rd is 2 days after February 2nd! I even considered the possibility that the movie took place during a leap year to account for one of the days of error, but the movie was released in 1993 and to my knowledge does not mention a different year than that as being the year it takes place!

Basically, my frustration is that no matter how much I have criticized Randy for comics that were not funny, they are at least typically very well researched in the details. This one dropped the ball repeatedly.

[neoliminal]

Reminded me of this very unscientific examination of how longer Bill Murray was trapped in the time loop.

http://whatculture.com/film/just-how-ma ... og-day.php

And then I thought of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jaunt

This made me think that I'm pretty sure Bill Murray character goes insane.

[rowanmikaio]

Am I the only one bothered by the fact that the comic refers to the actor Bill Murray having sex with the character Rita? Shouldn't it be Phil Connors?
I think referring to Bill Murray or Andie McDowell breaks the fourth wall and ruins the image because then we're talking about actors in a movie rather than characters in their own world.

[Amtiskaw]

As I recall, it's intimated that they do have sex, but it happens in the morning after the loop breaks, not before. They're getting frisky, and Rita asks Phil why he wasn't like this last night. He then goes to check the view from the window, making sure that she stays in bed, before jumping back into bed himself. Next thing you see, they're leaving the B&B, but the implication seems to be they got it on in-between scenes.

[JackApostrophe]

Hey, Just wanted to pop in and say this about the movie. I was always under the impression that the reason he was finally able to progress to the next day was that 42 "days" (or rather repeated days) had passed.
Traditionally, if the groundhog "sees his shadow", we get 6 more weeks of winter. This translates to Murray getting 6 more weeks of that horrible town that I don't feel like looking up the spelling for (Punxa-whatsit).

Also: If you count up the number of days that passed, as well as the number of times he mentions killing himself in interesting ways, you get 42 days accounted for.

Nope. It's heavily, heavily implied that he spends a looooooooooong time stuck in the time loop. At one point he says that it takes six months to master tossing cards into a hat, and that's only one of the skills he develops over the course of the movie. Hell, he becomes fluent in French!

[Max™]

Some numbers tossed around range from 33 years at a low end for all the feats he performs, to centuries or more.

[BrianB]

You do realize that knowing this much about the subject and discussing it in public is enough to get you banned from the Michigan state House of Representatives?

I didn't even realize anybody actually still lived in Michigan. I thought you all moved to China to build cars like the mom in that poor excuse of a remake known as "The Karate Kid".

[SerMufasa]

And then I thought of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jaunt

This made me think that I'm pretty sure Bill Murray character goes insane.

But in the Jaunt, the "victims" are trapped in their own minds for a really long time; all they can do is think. In Groundhog Day, though, he can act. It makes a huge difference, and it's why prisons typically have solitary confinement as punishment.

[JackApostrophe]

Some numbers tossed around range from 33 years at a low end for all the feats he performs, to centuries or more.

Apparently they actually toned it down from the original intent because otherwise the film would have been too depressing.

One measure was going to be that he would read one page of one book per day to keep track of time, and by the end of the film he would have read every single book in the public library.

[lassehp]

If your lovemaking lasts longer than forever, consult a doctor immediately.

Preferably one with a degree is physics?

Transfinite sex is the domain of mathematicians.

Thank you, glad someone pointed that out.

If the cardinality of your sex is larger than that of the natural numbers... giggity giggity giggity.

...you are an Aleph-male?

[Max™]

Indeed.

[SerMufasa]

I was thinking about the "memory" question, and a different question occurred to me: by the time he breaks the loop, what does he remember of his time before? He would've had no reinforcement outside of what's happening within the loop. I can't remember details of what I did 10 days ago, let alone 10 years (or 30 years, or 100 years) ago. I wonder if at some point he actually realizes he's losing his memory of the time before, and starts writing remembering a biography: the nearest analogy I can think of is Arya's "prayer" every evening before bed. And what does he include in his "before biography"?

[JackApostrophe]

I was thinking about the "memory" question, and a different question occurred to me: by the time he breaks the loop, what does he remember of his time before? He would've had no reinforcement outside of what's happening within the loop. I can't remember details of what I did 10 days ago, let alone 10 years (or 30 years, or 100 years) ago. I wonder if at some point he actually realizes he's losing his memory of the time before, and starts writing remembering a biography: the nearest analogy I can think of is Arya's "prayer" every evening before bed. And what does he include in his "before biography"?

Interesting. I always thought that even though he didn't go mad whilst in the loop, that actually re-entering a world where he doesn't know everything and can't predict exactly what's going to happen might just put Phil over the edge.

[da Doctah]

He not only had to make the mistake of calculating from February 2nd (which doesn't make sense since he said "264 days later" in a panel after talking about February 3rd), but he would have had to make it inclusive which doesn't make sense either. That would be like saying February 3rd is 2 days after February 2nd!

Fundies, at least, do count days inclusively. That's the only way to account for Jesus lying "three days and nights" in the tomb when He goes in on Friday night and is already up and walking around first thing Sunday morning.

That, or He's a Time Lord, which means He was just regenerating.

[laurion]

Methinks someone has willfully misinterpreted the phrase 'Big Bang'.

[lassehp]

That, or He's a Time Lord, which means He was just regenerating.

Now there's a great idea - it would be almost trivially easy to integrate Ground Hog Day into the Whoniverse - it makes perfect sense. In a way...

[standingwave]

Ned Ryerson?

BTW, it's one of my most favorite movies.

Then I highly recommend the novel 'Replay' by Ken Grimmwood:

The novel tells of a 43-year-old man who dies and awakens back in 1963 in his 18-year-old body. He then begins to relive his life with intact memories of the previous 25 years. This happens repeatedly with different events in each cycle. The novel was a bestseller in Japan, and its time-loop concept has been referenced as a precursor of Harold Ramis' comedy-drama Groundhog Day (1993).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replay_%28novel%29

[SerMufasa]

That's the only way to account for Jesus lying "three days and nights" in the tomb when He goes in on Friday night and is already up and walking around first thing Sunday morning.

I don't think it actually says "three days and nights", at least not in any translation I've read. It's always been "On the Third Day", which, technically, Sunday is.

But yeah, even as a kid it bothered me.

[J Thomas]

Ned Ryerson?

BTW, it's one of my most favorite movies.

Then I highly recommend the novel 'Replay' by Ken Grimmwood:

The novel tells of a 43-year-old man who dies and awakens back in 1963 in his 18-year-old body. He then begins to relive his life with intact memories of the previous 25 years. This happens repeatedly with different events in each cycle. The novel was a bestseller in Japan, and its time-loop concept has been referenced as a precursor of Harold Ramis' comedy-drama Groundhog Day (1993).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replay_%28novel%29

John Barnes's Kaleidoscope Century did it too. An extremely bleak story in which the main character spends some time each cycle as a spy/assassin whose job is to kill scientists to keep them from rediscovering the technology for his secret group's time machines.

[humanalien]

Am I the only one bothered by the fact that the comic refers to the actor Bill Murray having sex with the character Rita? Shouldn't it be Phil Connors?
I think referring to Bill Murray or Andie McDowell breaks the fourth wall and ruins the image because then we're talking about actors in a movie rather than characters in their own world.

Um, yeah, I mentioned it 26 posts ago:

I prefer the interpretation that the loop didn't break because of his relationship with Rita, it broke because he bought insurance from Ned Ryerson:

http://www.johnanderikaspeak.com/an/2009/08/31/520/

BTW, anyone else find it strange that Randall refers to the male lead by the name of the actor, and to the female lead by the name of the character?

But nobody else has, so I guess we're in the minority.

[reevey]

February 3rd is my birthday. Groundhog Day is one of my favorite movies too. Not that anybody is going to care.

Well, October 23 is my birthday, so I am ignoring the slurs on Usscher not including leap years. I share my birthday with the world!

[AvatarIII]

Am I the only one bothered by the fact that the comic refers to the actor Bill Murray having sex with the character Rita? Shouldn't it be Phil Connors?
I think referring to Bill Murray or Andie McDowell breaks the fourth wall and ruins the image because then we're talking about actors in a movie rather than characters in their own world.

Um, yeah, I mentioned it 26 posts ago:

I prefer the interpretation that the loop didn't break because of his relationship with Rita, it broke because he bought insurance from Ned Ryerson:

http://www.johnanderikaspeak.com/an/2009/08/31/520/

BTW, anyone else find it strange that Randall refers to the male lead by the name of the actor, and to the female lead by the name of the character?

But nobody else has, so I guess we're in the minority.

I think it may be part of the joke, that Bill Murray is Bill Murray in whatever he is in, he has such a strong personality that it shines through whatever part he plays, in fact I challenge anyone to watch a Bill Murray movie and not see whatever part he plays as "x character as played by Bill Murray" rather than just "x character"
Andie MacDowell on the other hand does not have that level of personality.

[J Thomas]

I think it may be part of the joke, that Bill Murray is Bill Murray in whatever he is in, he has such a strong personality that it shines through whatever part he plays, in fact I challenge anyone to watch a Bill Murray movie and not see whatever part he plays as "x character as played by Bill Murray" rather than just "x character"
Andie MacDowell on the other hand does not have that level of personality. can act.

Fixed that for you.

[AvatarIII]

Yeah, you're right. I just didn't want to insult the Murray.

[Kaiman]

I'm surprised this thread hasn't turned into an argument over the possibility of completing an infinite task.

[Max™]

I'm surprised this thread hasn't turned into an argument over the possibility of completing an infinite task.

I tried, but I didn't go far enough.

[flicky1991]

I'm surprised this thread hasn't turned into an argument over the possibility of completing an infinite task.

When you have infinite time, you can complete an infinite task and still have infinite time left over. XD

[J Thomas]

I'm surprised this thread hasn't turned into an argument over the possibility of completing an infinite task.

When you have infinite time, you can complete an infinite task and still have infinite time left over. XD

Say you have a task that takes an hour, and you have two hours available. You might think "I will do the task now, and then I will have an hour available afterward."
But your boss comes by and tells you he wants you to spend the second hour doing the task. Then you don't have an hour available afterward after all.

Suppose you have infinite time, but you don't get to choose which times to spend on the task. Whoever does get to choose that, might require you to use all your time on the task with nothing left over afterward.

It makes a great big difference whether you have the initiative.