Do you like or hate Windows 8?

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fishermish
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Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby fishermish » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:49 pm UTC

My personal thoughts on Windows 8 are quite negative and I am not a fan of the direction Microsoft is taking. The Release Preview feels as if Microsoft has ignored most of the negative feedback and keeps pushing for their vision. The improved desktop elements such as explorer & task manager are a great improvement however for a home or work desktop, the metro start-screen IMO is not suitable. My reason for this is the lack of customizatiion it has. Users such as me have become familiar with the start menu and have watched it evolve for years. Tablets should use metro, desktops should use the typical start menu.

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Derek » Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:14 am UTC

I've not tried it, but I've heard very polarized views (though mostly negative). It sounds like some things have been greatly improved, but no one really likes the new UI. The Metro UI was primarily designed for tablets, and I agree with you that it's inappropriate for desktops. There ought to be a way to just turn it off and use the classic Windows interface, in the same way I can turn off Aero on W7 or even make the whole thing look like Windows 95 if I want. But from what I've heard no such method exists. But I'm still waiting for the actual release before making final judgments.

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Iranon » Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:41 am UTC

Windows' menu trees have always been an illogical mess, as such a search-based interface instead of having to click on something totally unrelated on the way helps.

Integration between Metro and the traditional desktop is beyond clumsy (inefficient, visually disturbing). There's even more confusing duplication than before. Still not terribly responsive. Still seems to require undue maintenance to avoid degrading performance/stability and sorting (unfortunately needed) external tools from snake oil. Still tries to annoy you into doing things a particular way, even if that's asinine.

I generally find Windows unpleasant to use, and the tackiness is more in-your-face with Windows 8. That said, it seems a slight functional improvement over Windows 7.
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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Jplus » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:59 am UTC

I hear good things about the looks (and this seems to be the first time they're not just copying from another company), and if I'm guessing right that they've finally included subpixel smoothing I'd consider that a giant leap forward. Still, what I've seen from the previews seems to confirm that it's also terribly illogical and unintuitive, perhaps even more so than previous versions of Windows.

So I've got somewhat mixed feelings about it.
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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Iranon » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:17 pm UTC

If you're referring to subpixel font rendering, that has been available since Windows XP and enabled by default since Windows Vista.
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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby willaaaaaa » Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:04 pm UTC

I'd give it about 4 out of 5 stars.

Aesthetically, this is definitely the most beautiful Windows by far. In terms of functionality, I haven't got the hang of it yet, but I hear (from friends who have also tried it) that it grows on you quickly--just have to get used to the keyboard shortcuts for things. I think it's nice that they provide Desktop mode to help during the learning curve, but I'd like to see it go (or at least become better integrated) in future releases of Windows. Having two disparate desktops just seems very inelegant.
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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Derek » Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:45 am UTC

willaaaaaa wrote:I'd give it about 4 out of 5 stars.

Aesthetically, this is definitely the most beautiful Windows by far. In terms of functionality, I haven't got the hang of it yet, but I hear (from friends who have also tried it) that it grows on you quickly--just have to get used to the keyboard shortcuts for things. I think it's nice that they provide Desktop mode to help during the learning curve, but I'd like to see it go (or at least become better integrated) in future releases of Windows. Having two disparate desktops just seems very inelegant.

Isn't the alternative to the desktop "mode" the Metro mdoe, in which you can only have one thing visible at a time? Faced with this alternative, how could you possibly want desktop mode to go?

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby willaaaaaa » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:14 am UTC

I think you can dock two things in metro, but your point still holds. To be honest I would prefer some creative solution better than both... with the Windows 7 desktop mode, I often find that my desktop gets cluttered (unless I have the luxury of a second monitor) with awkwardly overlapping windows that I am constantly resizing. Something similar to metro, but allowing more tasks to be visible at once, would be perfect in my mind.

An extra note, I have friends who always maximize their windows, in which case the metro style fits their habits perfectly.
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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Iranon » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:18 am UTC

It's a bit of a shame that sophisticated window management generally comes bundled with minimalist presentation or geeky configuration contortions, but Metro to end cluttered desktops is massive overkill.

Unclutter KDE a little and you have something sufficient for most people's needs without scaring anyone (traditional desktop metaphor, multiple virtual desktops, drag-to-edge as in Windows 7, drag-to-corner for 1/4 screen, tabbing and limited tiling available in a fairly intuitive way when desired).
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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Derek » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:30 pm UTC

willaaaaaa wrote:I think you can dock two things in metro, but your point still holds. To be honest I would prefer some creative solution better than both... with the Windows 7 desktop mode, I often find that my desktop gets cluttered (unless I have the luxury of a second monitor) with awkwardly overlapping windows that I am constantly resizing. Something similar to metro, but allowing more tasks to be visible at once, would be perfect in my mind.

An extra note, I have friends who always maximize their windows, in which case the metro style fits their habits perfectly.

I usually maximize my windows, and in fact one of the (many) things I hate about OS X is that you can truly maximize a window, but there are also times that I want multiple windows overlapping, or tiled, or just not taking the entire screen.

I also use a program called Dexpot that adds a lot of additional features, the ones I mainly use being virtual desktops and making a window always appear on top.

Unclutter KDE a little and you have something sufficient for most people's needs without scaring anyone (traditional desktop metaphor, multiple virtual desktops, drag-to-edge as in Windows 7, drag-to-corner for 1/4 screen, tabbing and limited tiling available in a fairly intuitive way when desired).

I'm curious, what kind of "limited tiling" support does it provide? I sometimes manually tile windows when I need to work in a couple windows at the same time (actually, at work right now, I've got five windows manually tiled across two monitors), and wouldn't mind better support for this, but I think a tiling-only window manager is ridiculous.

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Iranon » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:43 pm UTC

KDE has a dynamic tiling mode of the sort you don't like, and it's mostly an afterthought. Two predetermined layouts available (half-screen master + horizontal slaves, spiral), "moving" a window exchanges positions with another one.

More useful: Drag-to-edge/corner "poor man's tiling" combined with application-independent tabbing (middleclick-drag a titlebar on another and you put both clients in one window, titlebar gets split into tabs) allows keeping things organised without getting the way of a free-floating workflow.
With virtual desktops and windows that snap together, this is probably enough for many people.

*

The traditional desktop still has a lot of untapped potential. It seems a shame that the preferred solution to increasing clutter seems "railroad users into a fullscreen-centric paradigm" rather than giving them the tools to easily manage a few dozen windows without additional screens or buggy extensions.
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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Derek » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:08 pm UTC

Iranon wrote:With virtual desktops and windows that snap together, this is probably enough for many people.

Windows that snap together was one thing I was thinking about. Building on that, what happens when you move or resize one? I think a good feature would be some way of saying "these windows should always share this edge", and a way of undoing it.

The traditional desktop still has a lot of untapped potential. It seems a shame that the preferred solution to increasing clutter seems "railroad users into a fullscreen-centric paradigm" rather than giving them the tools to easily manage a few dozen windows without additional screens or buggy extensions.

It almost feels like we're stepping back about 20 years in UI development.

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Iranon » Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:18 am UTC

One-time thing that doesn't alter future behaviour in KDE, nothing between this and putting several client into 1 tabbed window.
E16 (which has fallen into some obscurity) allows grouping windows so you move, resize, close them together. There are a lot of good ideas implemented on GUIs for the X window system... shame they're spread over several hundred window managers.

One might argue that moving backwards has been the norm in UI development for 20 years :)
Some early window managers were built to let you do anything that you could define clearly, making very few assumptions about what they'd actually behave like when you're done configuring them.
Many modern usability features and other clever ideas are trivially easy to steal.

*

Windows 8 is probably an improvement, my annoyances stem from offended design sensibilities rather than genuine usability problems. But declaring the conventional desktop "legacy" and making clear that the focus is on Metro and quite possibly content delivery... this is making people nervous. If I had anything of significance invested in the Windows platform, I'd be nervous too.
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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Jplus » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:57 am UTC

Iranon wrote:If you're referring to subpixel font rendering, that has been available since Windows XP and enabled by default since Windows Vista.

If that is true (only just read your post, haven't checked yet) then it's not working well. Text still looks really bad on Windows 7 compared to text on Ubuntu (assuming that you didn't switch off subpixel smoothing) or Mac OS X.

Is it working just as poorly on Windows 8? That'd be a shame.
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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Iranon » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:54 am UTC

Windows has a different approach to font rendering.

OSX: Render fonts faithfully. If it can't be rendered crisply without distoring shape and weight, some blur is acceptable.
For weight, it renders colour accurately (i.e. how dark the text appears) rather than line width; so if things get blurry they're slightly wider.
In my opinion acceptable (if not ideal) on the screen, great for things intended to be printed.

Windows: Text has to be crisp and sharp at all times, no blurriness allowed ever. Distorting shapes and weight by fitting things to the pixel grid is perfectly acceptable. Windows renders different font formats differently, and differently again between versions. Artifacts vary:some things are jagged, some things have "warts" sticking out, some aren't consistent about character height or weight.
In my opinion this goes too far even for pure screen use, a little blur is less annoying. Moreover, it becomes extremely annoying when things leave the original context (print, or even screen captures).

Linux: Not standardised. Ubuntu's approach is imo a very good compromise for the screen - slightly sharper than OSX, but distortions to the typeface are barely perceptible.
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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Derek » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:06 pm UTC

I generally can't stand blur on text if I can notice it. I pretty regularly use both Windows and Ubuntu, but I can't say I've ever really noticed a difference in how they render fonts.

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Wnderer » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:22 pm UTC

I haven't seen it yet but I know I'm gonna hate it. I hate the Cloud and I like my Start Menu.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/adriankings ... windows-8/

From what I can tell from the hype, Windows 8 stinks like that Ubuntu dashboard crap where in order to check what programs you have, you first have to wade through 'What's New' at the Ubuntu store. Or to find programs on your computer you use a Google like search. That's like dumping all my bookmarks in my browser and using Google to find everything on the web. I'm sure Google would love that. This crap isn't an improvement. It's somebody's business model. Google, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Adobe etc. would love to merge the web into every activity on my computer, monitor what I'm doing and use the information to offer me products and services. The fact that Ubuntu is pioneering this stuff makes wonder who is really running that show. I hate the direction computers and the internet are going and I don't see anyone offering an alternative.

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Derek » Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:33 am UTC

From what I can tell from the hype, Windows 8 stinks like that Ubuntu dashboard crap where in order to check what programs you have, you first have to wade through 'What's New' at the Ubuntu store. Or to find programs on your computer you use a Google like search. That's like dumping all my bookmarks in my browser and using Google to find everything on the web. I'm sure Google would love that. This crap isn't an improvement. It's somebody's business model. Google, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Adobe etc. would love to merge the web into every activity on my computer, monitor what I'm doing and use the information to offer me products and services. The fact that Ubuntu is pioneering this stuff makes wonder who is really running that show. I hate the direction computers and the internet are going and I don't see anyone offering an alternative.

That's what I've got on my work machine. I hate it, I need to figure out how to change it.

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Iranon » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:22 am UTC

Windows 8 is doing it worse in my opinion:
In Ubuntu, hitting the Penguin key starts an open search with everything enabled, you can apply filters if you want. In Windows 8, the search is categorised from the start. Basic uses need more keystrokes than necessary, and it's neither here nor there: hierarchical menus are quick and precise if we know what we want, search-based launching is nice because we don't want to bother with technicalities.

Ubuntu also allows searching an application's menu items by tapping ALT, which is a very useful extension of search-based functionality that I'd like to see elsewhere.
That said, I find it distasteful how Ubuntu is more aggressive than anything else about hawking crap for a cut, and using the new interface paradigm to do so.
One thing I generally like about Linux is that it isn't compromising itself as an OS to be a consumer platform.

The analogy to a web browser is a good one: A good search function (which wasn't integrated into desktops for far too long) is more important than bookmarks, but bookmarks in a hierarchical menu are still useful. Taking that away or forcibly integrating it into the search functionality is questionable - or outright dickery if the search function is abused for the OS vendor's commercial interests.
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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Wnderer » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:41 pm UTC

Only even numbered Star Trek movies are good and only prime numbered Windows operating systems are any good. So hold out for Windows 11.

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Derek » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:09 pm UTC

Wnderer wrote:Only even numbered Star Trek movies are good and only prime numbered Windows operating systems are any good. So hold out for Windows 11.

I'm curious how you're counting Windows systems for this, especially since there were two parallel versions of Windows before XP (DOS based and NT based). The good versions, in my book, are 98, 2000, XP, and 7, so I guess if you count 95=1 it works, but this ignores Windows 1.0 through 3.1 (and all server editions, but I think we can safely ignore those).

Also, I would be really sad if we had to wait three more versions for another good release.

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby EvanED » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:13 pm UTC

If being the best OS you'd run on a PC is a sufficient condition of being "good", 3.1 and 95 were also "good." Some of the NT line (e.g. 4) were also good as well by my ratings, with the caveat that you wouldn't want to use them for gaming and IIRC they had more limited HW support.

Then again, I thought even Vista was an improvement from XP, so YMMV. :-)

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Derek » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:36 pm UTC

Well that discredits your opinion right there :P

I have no experience with pre-95 or the early NT versions. And I'll agree that 95 was the best available at the time, I mainly left it off because 98 was a big improvement. And anyways, 1 is neither prime nor composite :P

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Wnderer » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:54 pm UTC

Derek wrote:
Wnderer wrote:Only even numbered Star Trek movies are good and only prime numbered Windows operating systems are any good. So hold out for Windows 11.

I'm curious how you're counting Windows systems for this, especially since there were two parallel versions of Windows before XP (DOS based and NT based). The good versions, in my book, are 98, 2000, XP, and 7, so I guess if you count 95=1 it works, but this ignores Windows 1.0 through 3.1 (and all server editions, but I think we can safely ignore those).

Also, I would be really sad if we had to wait three more versions for another good release.


http://www.worldstart.com/why-call-it-windows-7/
Spoiler:
Now, because I’ve been running a lot of info on Windows 7 a few questions are bound to spring up. How much does it cost? Will my old programs work with it, etc. However, the biggest query that fills my inbox is always “Why is it called Windows 7?”

With so many different versions of Windows throughout Microsoft’s course, where’s the sense? We had Windows 3.0, 3.1, 95, 98 (revisions A and B), 2000, ME, XP, Vista and that’s not even counting Windows NT, and the Mobile iterations! I probably even forgot a version or two in there somewhere!

Point is, that the numbers don’t match up. So why exactly does MS see fit to name it “7”?

Here’s what tech writer Ed Bott has to say about this:

– Windows 3.0 and 3.1 (and Windows for Workgroups 3.11) from the early 1990s used the version numbers as part of their name. The first releases of Windows NT, also from that era, followed suit, with Windows NT 3.1 and 3.5.

– Windows 95 was technically version 4.0. Windows NT 4.0, which was released exactly a year after Windows 95, adopted the Windows 95 interface. Windows 98 was version 4.10.1998 and Windows 98 Second Edition was 4.10.2222A. The much-maligned Windows Me was 4.90.3000. (History lessons here and here for those who care.)

– Windows 2000 was the first release in the version 5 family. It was followed by Windows XP, which was version 5.1. Service packs are identified by build numbers, but service packs do not affect the version number.

– Windows Vista was Windows 6.0. Because the next release of Windows is going to be based on the same kernel as Windows Vista, it should have the version number 6.1. Indeed, every screenshot of Windows 7 that has been in public view so far has had a build number of 6.1.xxxx. This numbering is almost certain to remain in the final product. If the major version number changed to 7.0, many applications written for Windows Vista would fail to install or run properly, simply because of version checking.

In summation, there is no good reason to call it Windows 7 at all! Bott goes on to predict that Microsoft will probably go back to their old naming convention for the next version, but who wants to even think about that right now?


Win 3.0 build 3.0
Win 3.1 build 3.1
Win 3.11 build 3.11
WinNT 3.1 build 3.1
WinNT 3.5 build 3.5
Win95 build 4.0
WinNT build 4.0
Win98 build 4.1
Win98 SE build 4.10.1998
Win2000 build 5.0
WinXP build 5.1
Vista build 6.0
Win7 build 6.1
Win8 build 6.2


So there you have it. So really Windows 7 is still version 6. Googling I find Win8 is build 6.2. I guess my rule doesn't really work and the real rule is you should usually wait for at least version X.1.

Though I still think my prime number joke was funny.

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Steax » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:50 am UTC

As worrying as any UI decision on Microsoft's front is, I'm far more concerned with the fact that OEMs are including their own little UI widgets and gizmos. Soon every Windows user (which, unless we have a huge radical shift, is going to be "most average users") will have their own little user experience that goes along whatever OEM they're using.
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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Derek » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:31 pm UTC

They've always done crap like that. Whenever you buy a pre-built computer, it comes with loads of bloatware that you have to get rid of first.

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Steax » Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:16 pm UTC

Mostly just bloatware, though. They're rarely UI elements. Remember the era of toolbars? It could be like that, except with more variance and system-wide.
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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Derek » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:04 am UTC

I talked with a friend tonight who recently finished an internship at Microsoft. His impression was that the interface just takes some getting used to, but is otherwise good. That's a bit reassuring to me.

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Iranon » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:12 am UTC

How is that reassuring?
Human rights don't apply to interns, they could have brainwashed him any way they choose.



More seriously, Windows 8 shipping with a ton of different additions depending on hardware vendor may lead to some hilarity going by my experience with Windows interface tweaks. Microsoft also has an interest to actively discourage these because The Interface Formerly Known As Metro presents some interesting business opportunities that will suffer if it's seen as "some distraction on the way to the familiar old desktop". The hardware vendors may be tempted to do something dodgy with their interface additions too so room for unpleasantness all around.

Even without any corporate dickery by either side, the approach is problematic. It makes sense to either have a polished, consistent interface that the vast majority of customers will accept as-is or to have something built from the ground up for modularity and easy replacement by the user. Not to have a polished, consistent interface that ships with ugly hacks because it's not what most users want.
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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Steax » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:59 am UTC

I do kind of feel sorry for Microsoft - they've been dealing with this crap for years. Want to remove some obscure feature in Word to simplify the user experience? No can do, a bunch of add-ons, training courses and a handful of companies rely on them to work. They've grown too big to move quickly.

I'm very cautious if different vendors start to ship more stuff on their machines. And many of them probably aren't even strangers to the process, since some, like Samsung, are already used to making their own layer on top of Android. I can easily see them tempted to customise their Windows devices. I honestly wouldn't even be surprised if some vendors entirely sidestep He Who Was To Be Called Metro just to tout "User Experience". Or switch between Metro and classic when a tablet-hybrid is attached or removed from its keyboard. Something like that.
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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Steax » Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:50 am UTC

Here's a review of the new Office, and I think it's a good simplification of the issue.

Half are touch-optimized, half are not. Half still have ribbons with a plethora of icons (and ALL CAPS tabs), half have done some work simplifying it. There are touch features, like for reading, integrated in a product that basically still requires a mouse and keyboard. Then you see comical things like Outlook's bottom bar, which is bigger than the ribbon tabs even though they're only pop-over triggers - it's clear they're upsized for touch.

I'm also really worried about the cramped work area - I'm not sure why. I think it's because the content fonts (at least in Word) tend to be smaller than the ribbon labels, leading to more clutter than there actually is. It's inverted on Excel, where the default content size is bigger than the ribbon.

Then you have this: (Don't mind the youtube scrubber.)

Image


That horrifying clash of colors just worry me. The shiny, semitransparent taskbar alongside the solid dull green - and those tab colors are default with that template.
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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby EvanED » Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:59 am UTC

UGH. I WISH MICROSOFT WOULD STOP SHOUTING IN THEIR MENUS. VISUAL STUDIO 2012 HAS THE SAME PROBLEM.

Anyway, I just ordered an SSD, so I figure that as long as I'm reinstalling anyway, might as well put Windows 8 on it. So I'll let you know in a week or two what I think. :-)

Edit: I'm also not particularly impressed by parts of the Office '13 review. For instance, he seems to not have known that the ribbon has always been collapsible (as he calls that out as a new feature), and I'm afraid he didn't know about the presenter mode (available since PPT 2003 at least) as he talks about how it's nice and stuff but doesn't actually say what's new about it. In fact, if it's not an artifact of the small screen or settings, it looks like it's taken a big step backwards as there's no timeline visible around 2:30, only the current and next slides.
Last edited by EvanED on Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:11 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Derek » Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:05 am UTC

Oh hey, I wonder if my intern project made it in (without getting rewritten from scratch). One of my co-workers features was shown in the review, another one was mentioned in the text review.

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Copper Bezel » Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:32 am UTC

I haven't tried Windows 8 yet, but UI concerns within Metro (yes, I'm still calling it that, and I'm not going to be cute about it) seem like a small issue to me. The interface seems consistent and reasonable, and it does require a different way of working with applications, but so does Gnome Shell and so does Android, and I love both of them to death. The tiling actually seems intuitive - I miss multiple windows on Android and I miss the simplicity of treating the device as the application on Shell, and this is a neat way of getting both at once.

The schism between that UI and the legacy desktop seems a bit insane, and all of the factors that cause it to happen are bad things that have a real influence on what living with Windows 8 is going to be like. The desktop exists because Microsoft wants to pressure its developers to sell Metro apps through the walled garden of the Windows store and to simultaneously placate users and developers who prefer the traditional desktop metaphor and not being price-gouged and censored. I really, really wish that those two concerns were not related to one another, because they're not related philosophically or something. If I like Metro and freedom at the same time, I'm in a bit of a bind. (I like Metro and freedom at the same time. I'm in a bit of a bind.)

The fact that Microsoft's own Office team is one of those teams of developers whose approach to computing is being placated by the existence of the legacy desktop moves this concern from "troubling" to "hilarious."

The UI concern I do have within Metro is that individual applications and windows are now the same thing. That means that individual applications can't have multiple windows up, which means that working with two documents at once requires an MDI. MDIs have gone out of favor for everything that isn't a web browser (and even then, it's just tabs, which means no side-by-side viewing.)

So that's troubling, too. I mean, for instance, there are not, so far as I can tell, greater than zero .pdf viewers for Android that use tabs. That means that switching between two documents requires jumping over to a recent documents list or back to the file manager (or Dropbox or whatever else is holding said .pdfs) to switch between. If that sort of nonsense is necessary on a desktop, that's a real UI concern I'll definitely have with Metro. And the fun thing is, it's left up to the individual apps to decide whether or not they're going to offer a sensible interface for multiple documents, and it won't be consistent across applications. I mean, is there a Metro HIG out there for developers? (Because that would actually be kinda cool. I'll get behind the Windows Store limitations if Microsoft rejects applications not for competing with their commercial interests, but for being tacky.)
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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby cphite » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:01 am UTC

fishermish wrote:My personal thoughts on Windows 8 are quite negative and I am not a fan of the direction Microsoft is taking. The Release Preview feels as if Microsoft has ignored most of the negative feedback and keeps pushing for their vision. The improved desktop elements such as explorer & task manager are a great improvement however for a home or work desktop, the metro start-screen IMO is not suitable. My reason for this is the lack of customizatiion it has. Users such as me have become familiar with the start menu and have watched it evolve for years. Tablets should use metro, desktops should use the typical start menu.


It's nice for a tablet or smartphone, but annoying on a desktop or laptop. Overall my opinion of it is "meh" - I don't really hate it per say, but I don't see any reason to install it on either my desktop or laptop.

I think a lot of businesses are going to avoid it like the plague, and I know that a lot of formerly Windows-centric developers are using it as an excuse to at least try their hand at Linux or even Mac. All in all, I think it's going to be a pretty big flop for Microsoft, and I expect that either Windows 9 or Windows 8 SP1 will allow users to bypass Metro entirely.

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Steax » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:22 am UTC

Copper Bezel wrote:The UI concern I do have within Metro is that individual applications and windows are now the same thing. That means that individual applications can't have multiple windows up, which means that working with two documents at once requires an MDI. MDIs have gone out of favor for everything that isn't a web browser (and even then, it's just tabs, which means no side-by-side viewing.)


Wait, really? Well that's disturbing. Less because of the theoretical consequences of forcing single instances, but with the fact that a massive slew of old applications weren't built with this in mind. Existing applications without MDIs but rely on multiple instances to work well... are going to be an issue.
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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby EvanED » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:25 am UTC

Steax wrote:Existing applications without MDIs but rely on multiple instances to work well... are going to be an issue.


Existing apps don't use the metro interface. :-) "Legacy" desktop apps work the same as always.

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Steax » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:40 am UTC

Oh, great. I must have misread that. Then it'll just be a task for developers.. Don't see how that could go wrong.
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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby sam_i_am » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:05 pm UTC

Windows 8 is mostly similar to windows 7, so I can tolerate it.

there is 1 thing that i don't like about the start menu and that is that it completely covers the rest of the screen. It makes me lose sight of the rest of my windows, and is mildly annoying.

The search feature for applications seems improved.

There are too many mouse-over events. when you move the mouse to a corner of the screen, buttons appear there, when you click everything, it's easier to work deliberately.

This is especially true for the bottom right corner of the task-bar, which brings up your desktop if you leave your mouse there too long. I both like and dislike this feature. If they removed the mouse-over element of it and made it just a button to click to see your desktop, I'd be happy, but when you bring up the desktop when you aren't intending to, it's very annoying.

when you launch apps from the metro interface, windows 8 also has this nasty habit of redirecting you to an already opened app if there is one. You have to right click and tell it to open in a new window. Almost as annoying as Firefox's "switch to tab"

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Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Iranon » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:06 pm UTC

For what it's worth, things become less visually distracting when you turn off unnecessary animations and turn off transparency to boot.
I don't usually mind a little eye candy, but the effects clash horribly with the signage aesthetic and the animations for home screen/various corner actions are overblown and intrusive.

I quite like "corner to edge" swipes because they're easy to do but unlikely to be triggered by accident, and in fact had various functionality defined for all corners in both directions in my main Linux GUI... but I'm not sure it's intuitive for the average user.
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