English Officer

[jordyhoyt]

An English officer, after a gruesome experience during the Boxer rebellion in China some years ago, fell asleep in church during the sermon. He was dreaming that the executioner was approaching him to cut off his head, and just as the sword was descending on the officer's unhappy neck his wife lightly touched her husband on the back of his neck with her fan to awaken him. The shock was too great, and the officer fell forward dead.

Now, there is something wrong with this. What is it?

[Jesse]

No-one in England would dare fall asleep during church. Fact.

Edit: Also, when does it get hot enough here for women to have a fan?

[posiduck]

men and women go to different churches in that time and place?

[kira]

He must have been leaning forward while he was sleeping in order for his wife to tap him on the back of the neck. Since he was already leaning forward, he wouldn't be able to "fall".

Regardless of what the real answer is, that's my story. I'm sticking to it.

[EndofEternity]

the boxer revolution was a chinese uprising against western influence... so what the crap is a church doing in china?

[Penguin]

I don't even understand the question... there's something wrong with what? Like, grammatically? Are we looking for a spelling mistake, a factual inconsistency, or something more... sinister?

[jordyhoyt]

I don't even understand the question... there's something wrong with what? Like, grammatically? Are we looking for a spelling mistake, a factual inconsistency, or something more... sinister?

Yes, definitely something more sinister, hehe. You're all putting too much thought into it... which is the point.

This will answer questions about English involvement in the Boxer rebellion, but won't help you solve the puzzle at all.

Definition 1 here shows that "fall" is quite the right word to have used to describe his dead body's forward slumping action in the direction of gravity's choosing. Which also does not help a bit in solving the puzzle.

I'm not sure when/how to post the solution...

[Jesse]

Create another thread titled English Officer [SOLUTION]

[DaveFP]

If he is dreaming about a past event that actually happened to him, then we've got a problem. Dreaming about one's own execution after the fact means that he would already be dead...

[umbrae]

I think the original puzzle is needed for anyone to be able to figure this out validly (I would explain further, but I fear that'd give the solution away):

Several of us were gathered for one of Mrs. Bucket's candlelight suppers and, after the meal, retired to the sitting room for coffee, pie and conversation. For some reason unknown the conversation turned to the topic of sudden deaths. Col. McBain then told the following story:

"An English officer, after a gruesome experience during the Boxer rebellion in China some years ago, fell asleep in church during the sermon. He was dreaming that the executioner was approaching him to cut off his head, and just as the sword was descending on the officer's unhappy neck his wife lightly touched her husband on the back of his neck with her fan to awaken him. The shock was too great, and the officer fell forward dead."

"An interesting story", I said, "but, of course, it could never have happened in that way."

What is the problem with the story that convinced me that it never happened?

[Lexington]

Since the officer died immediately, there's no way to know what he was dreaming.

[ulnevets]

Since the officer died immediately, there's no way to know what he was dreaming.

i think that's it, and it can only be solved with the full puzzle.

nonetheless, what if the english officer talks in his sleep?

[Marrow]

Since the officer died immediately, there's no way to know what he was dreaming.

This may very well be the answer. However, since its an arguement of logic the perspective that it is being told from means that we would know that was what he was dreaming, just that none of the other people involved would know that.

I myself havn't a clue to what the answer was from the beginning and as with most of these if I don't have somewhere to start breaking it down at its not something I bother with, too often its something more obscure than I am that leads to the ultimate solution.

[Axolotl]

The problem as I see it is that, even when the full question is presented (steering the reader away from accepting the narrator as the standard omniscient logic puzzle presentor), there is nothing in the puzzle that actually makes it impossible for the story to be true. There is obviously the implication that the storyteller is most likely making it up or inferring his own explanation for what happened, however there is no way of proving that he is wrong (and that's without bringing in the possibility of the guy who died talking in his sleep, etc.).

[moopanda]

There is obviously the implication that the storyteller is most likely making it up or inferring his own explanation for what happened, however there is no way of proving that he is wrong

Surely the burden of proof lies with the storyteller, who is asserting his story as fact. I've never trusted Col. McBain's outrageous stories anyhow.

[ulnevets]

suppose the english officer has repeatedly had this nightmare and told his buddy about it. could his buddy not make an inferrance?

[Factitious]

I don't think that would have killed him, because I've had a similar execution dream / fan tap experience, and it didn't even come close to killing me.

[posiduck]

was yours during the boxer rebellion?

[Factitious]

The problem clearly states that it took place after the Boxer rebellion.

[ulnevets]

still, he's been in no war.

war changes a man.

[Factitious]

That's a good point. I missed the part where it said he had a gruesome experience. Now that I've reread the original situation, I agree that it could happen.

[Fierce]

Or mabey chinese execute people while they lie on their back instead of their stomach? So the sword would hit the front of the neck and not the back?

[Marrow]

I thought about that back when I didn't feel like answering anything here, but the blade would go all the way through his neck so I don't think that would have much relevance. It would be a very short time for it to slice through and unless 3 chop Willy was the executioner he wouldn't have had time or the sense to realize that.

[Factitious]

Maybe the husband's shock was because he expected the sword to hit the front of his neck, but instead he felt a tap on the back of his neck. The resulting cognitive dissonance killed him instantly.

[posiduck]

Is the thing that is wrong with the story that it doesn't do much in the way of character development?

Because if so, that's kind of harsh, it is brief, and exemplifies one of the four major narrative conflicts: man versus freak dream-related death.

[Factitious]

Chinese executioners shouldn't really need swords, since they could just kill people by tapping them when they're dreaming.

[posiduck]

Have you read the book about N chinese brothers (for some N, maybe 5 or 7) and each one was immune to a specific type of execution, so one couldn't be burned, and one had an un cuttable kneck, etc.

Except one of them had no super powers, or whatever, and he got arrested, so the book was them all swapping around to avoid the death penalty?

[nerd65536]

In church (we're talking about the early 1900's) don't people kneel all the time? If they're kneeling, they would be right up against the seat in front of them, making it impossible to fall FORWARD.

Please don't let it be something stupid like the word "this" in the last line (the question) refering to the last line itself. English doesn't have exact meanings for pronouns; the meaning comes from context; most people would assume "this" refers to the story, but it may refer to the statement.

[ulnevets]

Have you read the book about N chinese brothers (for some N, maybe 5 or 7) and each one was immune to a specific type of execution, so one couldn't be burned, and one had an un cuttable kneck, etc.

Except one of them had no super powers, or whatever, and he got arrested, so the book was them all swapping around to avoid the death penalty?

yea, that was a good story

[Factitious]

In church (we're talking about the early 1900's) don't people kneel all the time? If they're kneeling, they would be right up against the seat in front of them, making it impossible to fall FORWARD.

Please don't let it be something stupid like the word "this" in the last line (the question) refering to the last line itself. English doesn't have exact meanings for pronouns; the meaning comes from context; most people would assume "this" refers to the story, but it may refer to the statement.

I already posted the answer. It's that the executioner wouldn't need a sword, because you can kill people by making them think their dreams are coming true or something.

[posiduck]

Also, the god of dreams wouldn't let someone die on his watch.

[jwwells]

This actually introduces an analogue I heard of - people dying from fear during sleep paralysis nightmares. In this case, if you know a certain population has been having these experiences, and a spike in the number of deaths during sleep coincides with a stress-induced increase in these episodes, and some of these deaths happen to people without heart conditions, you can make a deduction.

In this case, suppose the officer had regularly told his friend that he has had this recurring nightmare, which has, on two occasions, brought on acute chest pains and intensely tight breathing. Furthermore, assume that he has heart troubles, and that, at the moment of his death, his face showed real terror...

Wow. This got grim.

[RealGrouchy]

Also, the god of dreams wouldn't let someone die on his watch.

Which is why the God of Unfortunate Deaths hired the God of Mischief to swipe the God of Dreams' watch and replae it with a clock-radio.

- RG>

[Binary.Tobis]

Since the officer died immediately, there's no way to know what he was dreaming.

You stole mine.