Assassin's Creed 3

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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:49 pm UTC

Quick question: I've played one, two and Altaïr's Chronicles, but not Brotherhood or Revelations. Story wise, do you think I'd be missing anything playing three before them?
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby F117Landers » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:18 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:Quick question: I've played one, two and Altaïr's Chronicles, but not Brotherhood or Revelations. Story wise, do you think I'd be missing anything playing three before them?


Yes, quite a bit.

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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby Eseell » Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:48 pm UTC

Brotherhood is critical, and also an excellent game. Revelations is less so overall, but there's a lot of good background story there. It's also not as good as Brotherhood in terms of gameplay, so if you only play one of them, play ACB.
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby IcedT » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:25 pm UTC

I haven't played Revelations yet but Brotherhood is my favorite in the series so far. You definitely don't want to pass it up.

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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:28 pm UTC

I'm not so much thinking "skip it entirely" as "play three, then come back for the others". But I don't want to be doing that if they'll be refferencing a whole bunch of stuff from Brotherhood.
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby F117Landers » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:40 pm UTC

They are. AC3 is built on events that occur to Desmond in AC:B and AC:R, and refer back to the entire plot of AC:R.

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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby Dopefish » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:49 am UTC

I missed AC:B somehow since holidays+other games released at a similar time distracted me, but I've played the others.

I'll probably get AC3 (although probably not until Christmas), but I should probably find an excuse to get AC:B at some stage...

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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby mosc » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:23 pm UTC

F117Landers wrote:They are. AC3 is built on events that occur to Desmond in AC:B and AC:R, and refer back to the entire plot of AC:R.

AC:R had a plot???
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby F117Landers » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:04 pm UTC

mosc wrote:
F117Landers wrote:They are. AC3 is built on events that occur to Desmond in AC:B and AC:R, and refer back to the entire plot of AC:R.

AC:R had a plot???


Shocking, isn't it!

I actually meant to put AC:B. Good catch though.

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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:53 pm UTC

I think Revelations gave nice closure to Altair's life and somewhat to Ezio's, as well as giving a bunch more background on Desmond (who was basically a shell character for the first three games). But while it's nice to have that info, it is definitely less essential than knowing everything that happened in Brotherhood.
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby mosc » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:11 pm UTC

I think about it, and AC:B was really plot where AC:R was just back story. But honestly, it wasn't very good back story. It was a lot of stupidity. A lot of Altair using the apple which seemed out of character, a more violent etsio, and a desmond who is an expert on modern assassin history despite not knowing anything about them in the first game.

First game had "what's an assassin? What's a Templar?"

Revelations had "my parents were an assassins. I remember always being on the run from the Templar"

Those are not that far of direct quotes. I just really didn't like revelations in any way. The camera felt like they had purposely broken it. The tower defense served to put the fear of god into you in keeping your meter down so you wouldn't be exposed to it's awfulness again. The plot didn't say anything. The back story was contradictory. The starting weapons (poison darts and bullets) were absurdly unbalanced. The new grappling blade thing was a useless and unnecessary addition. The combat was "harder" by taking the control away (never a good thing). I could go on.

By contrast, I had low expectations for brotherhood and it was just wonderful. Thought provoking plot, wonderful gameplay additions, a memorable setting, and character centric elements as well.

Play AC1, AC2, brotherhood, and AC3. Skip revelations.
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:42 pm UTC

mosc wrote:First game had "what's an assassin? What's a templar Templar?"

Revelations had "my parents were an assassins. I remember always being on the run from the Templar"
That's not actually unreasonable, when you consider that he may have lived awhile in denial of the significance of his past, plus now having a bigger framework to put everything into so it made more sense. He obviously didn't know at the time that it was Templars they were running from (or didn't remember or believe it at first), but after learning about the two groups it's entirely reasonable that he saw his past in a new light.
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby Xeio » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:50 pm UTC

Well, even in the earlier (did those missions have a name? I don't recall) platformer levels it seems like Desmond remembers his parents as more lunatic fanatics which is why he ran away than anything. It's not entirely clear the Animus isn't doing some memory voodoo to bring those suppressed memories to the surface as part of whatever reconstructive process it's doing.

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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby mosc » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:35 pm UTC

You can give me some plot related reasons for the change if you want but it was still jarring, unnecessary, and ruined character development in the narrative. There might be some plot reason for it, but if there is that plot is poorly written. Revelations was a terrible game and should be skipped. It's contrast in quality with brotherhood is shocking.
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby Zohar » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:16 am UTC

I think I did only one of those FPS levels and stopped, they were just so boring.

I enjoyed the rest of the game, though. It wasn't the same as Brotherhood, but I always liked running around in a beautifully rendered city, and that worked well here too. I just made sure to bribe enough however-they-were-called can didn't have to do a single tower defense other than the tutorial one. In other games I also worked to lower my templar awareness bar so I didn't mind. And since I tried to do everything I can as soon as I could, I actually had most of the assassin strongholds protected fairly early in the game anyway.
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby eculc » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:48 am UTC

Plot spoiler. near the beginning, but I couldn't be assed to figure out what sequence it's at the end of...3 or 4 I think.

Spoiler:
Dafuq? but...the blades...and the cape...and the bad-ass parkour skills...?
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby F117Landers » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:46 am UTC

Anyone else have an issue with sequence 2 where you can't fire or move?

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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby Cassi » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:30 am UTC

Yea, I had a lot of trouble with it. It won't let you fire until you have lined up the target with the barrels. (And I'm sorry if I'm about to state the obvious and this isn't the trouble you are having, but it's what happened to me!) The target is in the middle of the screen, and the barrels are right below the cart. When you line up properly, the barrels will go silver, and then it will let you shoot. Its just designed as an exercise in targeting, which is why you can't move or shoot if you aren't aiming in the right place, but it took me ages trying to figure out why I couldn't move or shoot when I was sure I was pointing in the right place...
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby clockworkmonk » Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:14 pm UTC

eculc wrote:Plot spoiler. near the beginning, but I couldn't be assed to figure out what sequence it's at the end of...3 or 4 I think.

Spoiler:
Dafuq? but...the blades...and the cape...and the bad-ass parkour skills...?


Regarding the thing in question.
Spoiler:
Haytham used to be an assassin, pay attention to how he talks to former "brothers"
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby Eseell » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:31 pm UTC

clockworkmonk wrote:
eculc wrote:Plot spoiler. near the beginning, but I couldn't be assed to figure out what sequence it's at the end of...3 or 4 I think.

Spoiler:
Dafuq? but...the blades...and the cape...and the bad-ass parkour skills...?


Regarding the thing in question.
Spoiler:
Haytham used to be an assassin, pay attention to how he talks to former "brothers"

Spoiler:
Yeah, and when Lee asks about how he learned to do all that crazy athletic and detective shit he gives a cryptic answer about how "if you grew up in the environment I had, you'd understand" or something. I'm kind of disappointed that I didn't see it coming, because while Haytham clearly has the training, his associates are all total fuckwit assholes. But, it played well on my desire to see myself as the "good guy," and also goes to show that no one sees themselves as evil (assuming that you believe the Templars are evil, which isn't actually that certain/obvious).
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:21 pm UTC

Yeah, I had trouble trying to shoot the barrel as well. The game is pretty shitty at telling you how to do what you need to do (the crafting/trading "tutorial" was as good as useless for me, as I still pretty much just had to figure it out myself). But as it turns out, apart from also not being able to move in that scene, that's how shooting works for the whole game. You have to be targeting something shootable before it'll let you shoot, and if you're not "in combat" (having pressed LT on the 360), you can only target enemy NPCs. Even in combat, you can only target NPCs, animals, and powder kegs.

About the "twist":
Spoiler:
I knew something was up when they never explicitly said the name of the "order" they were talking about, but even though the database entry for Connor's mom is bugged (and includes information one update ahead of when it should), I didn't figure out what Templar she was involved with until after the reveal. The closest I came to figuring out exactly what was up was when he was giving the oath. I though, "Wow, that sounds pretty similar to what a Templar might say."

And I don't think Haytham himself was ever an Assassin, but his father might have been. In fact, I think there's an email message from Shaun speculating that that might be how he got his hidden blades.
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby Cassi » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:15 pm UTC

I also had a nightmare in sequence 8
Spoiler:
Chasing Hickey...I couldn't figure out what to do, because if I shot him I desynced, but I could never seem to get close enough to tackle him, but he went in circles, so it wasn't like I was meant to follow him anywhere. I eventually realised part of the problem was that I didn't know the right button for tackling (has this changed, or did I just not use it much before?), and partially that I needed to cut him off, not actually chase him. Was absolutely infuriating though, and I was about ready to break something before I gave up and looked online...


On the twist
Spoiler:
I didn't even consider it as a possibility, though I did think the ceremony seemed a little off...but I thought oh well, clearly times have changed since Renaissance Italy. When it was revealed Desmond and I had pretty much the same reaction...
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby eculc » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:29 pm UTC

Eseell wrote:
clockworkmonk wrote:
eculc wrote:Plot spoiler. near the beginning, but I couldn't be assed to figure out what sequence it's at the end of...3 or 4 I think.

Spoiler:
Dafuq? but...the blades...and the cape...and the bad-ass parkour skills...?


Regarding the thing in question.
Spoiler:
Haytham used to be an assassin, pay attention to how he talks to former "brothers"

Spoiler:
Yeah, and when Lee asks about how he learned to do all that crazy athletic and detective shit he gives a cryptic answer about how "if you grew up in the environment I had, you'd understand" or something. I'm kind of disappointed that I didn't see it coming, because while Haytham clearly has the training, his associates are all total fuckwit assholes. But, it played well on my desire to see myself as the "good guy," and also goes to show that no one sees themselves as evil (assuming that you believe the Templars are evil, which isn't actually that certain/obvious).

Spoiler:
yeah, I got that from playing a bit further but...It's just so surprising. I mean, I didn't suspect anything until he took out the ring, and at that point I was like "wait, what is that?" I mean...never reveal the intent of our work, dedicate your life to serve the order in any way necessary, etc...It still seemed enough like the assassin ceremony that it would be believable. once he said it, I was just like...well, you saw my initial reaction. And the lead-up to it was perfect. all the things you were doing seemed normal enough; freeing slaves, taking down a British commander who controls them, gathering your group, it all fit well with playing as the good guy...until the twist.
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby nightbird » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:33 pm UTC

mosc wrote:First game had "what's an assassin? What's a Templar?"

Revelations had "my parents were an assassins. I remember always being on the run from the Templar"


So you would be 100% honest with a kidnapper and tell him everything you know?
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby mosc » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:37 pm UTC

nightbird wrote:
mosc wrote:First game had "what's an assassin? What's a Templar?"

Revelations had "my parents were assassins. I remember always being on the run from the Templar"
So you would be 100% honest with a kidnapper and tell him everything you know?
Considering I'm talking about internal Desmond monologue from the first game? Yeah, I think he'd be honest with himself.
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:42 pm UTC

Denial and repression are real things, you know.

Your complaint mostly seems to be that you wish there had been *less* character development of Desmond as he came to understand this ancient struggle and his place within it.
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby mosc » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:45 pm UTC

so you're saying previous Desmond had some form of amnesia! Wow, what an original writing twist that is. I just love plot development that says "ignore what I said before, this time I'm going to say something that's different and you should believe it unlike last time. You shouldn't believe what I said before, you should just believe what I say now". Clearly the FF7 school of plotlines at work here.

Are you excited at the possibility of a big "it was all a dream" reveal too? Maybe when Desmond wakes up from his dream he can be confronted with the life-altering realization that he's a video game character. Wouldn't that be amazing writing?
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby eculc » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:15 pm UTC

Okay, we can all hear the sarcasm, alright? but that's not even what happened, so maybe there should be some informed opinions instead of talking about how cliche everything is when it's not.

gmalivuk wrote:Denial and repression are real things, you know.

Your complaint mostly seems to be that you wish there had been *less* character development of Desmond as he came to understand this ancient struggle and his place within it.


pretty much this. the FPS sections of revelations actually went pretty deep into this, talking about how desmond didn't understand any of the fear/hiding/whatever was for (or what it was actually focused on) until he was kidnapped by abstergo and started working with the animus.

also: amnesia and denial/repression are very different. amnesia being a convenient plot device to be used to make a character a blank slate which the player can imprint whatever they want onto, and denial/repression being a (still convenient, but that's the point of plot devices) plot device to allow the makers of the game to expand upon the past rather than being forced to explain all the backstory all at once.
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:16 pm UTC

mosc wrote:so you're saying previous Desmond had some form of amnesia!
No, I am not saying that at all. Where in my post did anything like "amnesia" appear?

Do you actually know what any of the words "amnesia", "denial", or "repression" really mean? Looks like no.

And what precisely is your huge problem with the notion that Desmond went from, "I grew up in my parents' weird cult thing that I'd rather not think about too much," to, "Ooooh, now all that weird shit is beginning to make sense. My parents must have been Assassins and the mysterious enemies they were always afraid of must have been the Templars. And given what I've seen now it doesn't actually seem as paranoid and cultish as it did at the time."?
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby You, sir, name? » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

How has the series evolved since the first game? I've only played that, and remember raging over the frustrating free-running system that would constantly do stuff I didn't want it to do because I was close to something that triggered a context-dependent action.
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby Thesh » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:46 pm UTC

The later games are much better in terms of gameplay, but that shit still pisses me off sometimes.

Although in AC3 I haven't yet jumped into a pile of hay while trying to chase someone down.
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby Cassi » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:52 pm UTC

I have. More than once. Also I am not a fan of actually having to line up leaps of faith, as I've had some nice deaths jumping off of viewpoints because I can't see anything and have to just guess... (Though tbf I have been known to do that in the past as well, but not nearly as often!)

...But no, generally it has improved.
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby Xeio » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:13 pm UTC

Cassi wrote:I have. More than once. Also I am not a fan of actually having to line up leaps of faith, as I've had some nice deaths jumping off of viewpoints because I can't see anything and have to just guess...
The trees are terrible for this! Can't see a damn thing on the ground. And I ran into a tree where the pile of brush is placed in a way that climing the tree will cause you to jump out before you reach the top unless you point Conner perfectly...

Though at least dying after a fatal fall like that isn't really penalized. You're still synced and generally appear on the ground nearby.

I liked the "How D'ya Like Them Apples" achievement. Ubi be trollin.

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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:31 pm UTC

If I was a Templar, I'd just move all the piles of hay from under the view points. People who literally don't look before they leap don't have to be that hard to kill.
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby Xeio » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:43 pm UTC

It's easier than that. Hide spikes in all the hay piles, then you kill the ones that look too. Granted, they may just be sucked into the hayvoid and become harmless.

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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby eculc » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:52 pm UTC

even easier: just outright kill anyone on the rooftops. It's not like anyone uses them as a means of travel besides the assassins anyways.

Alternatively, kill anyone wearing a white hoodie.
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby Eseell » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:54 pm UTC

eculc wrote:Alternatively, kill anyone wearing a white hoodie.

I like this plan and I'm happy to be a part of it.
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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby Xeio » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:56 pm UTC

Crimson hoodie, bitches. Because I have to assassinate in clearly-visible-in-a-crowd style.

Actually, I don't have any other outfits yet in AC3... TO THE SHOPS! I don't know why shops sell assassin uniforms of varying colors.

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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby eculc » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:25 pm UTC

how long have you been playing? you get the white assassin outfit at the end of sequence 6.
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
For comparison, that means that if the cabbage guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender filled up his cart with lettuce instead, it would be about a quarter of a lethal dose.

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Re: Assassin's Creed 3

Postby Xeio » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:52 pm UTC

eculc wrote:how long have you been playing? you get the white assassin outfit at the end of sequence 6.
I was only counting that as the one. Do you still have the pre-assassin induction outfit somewhere? I haven't looked for it.


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