The DRM thread

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Coin
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The DRM thread

Postby Coin » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:43 pm UTC

The discussion in the Sim City 5 thread regarding the troubled launch where the "always on-line" requirement and lack of servers which rendered the game unplayable for many players quickly developed into a discussion about DRM (Digital Rights Management) in general which I would like to continue in this thread.
To start off I would like to quote part of a post I made in the Sim City 5 thread:
[The launch has been poor with lots of people unable to play the game]
And, and yet EA are laughing all the way to the bank...
It's bizarre that we are moving towards games becoming a service with all of the benefits for the provider but none of the obligations. In the corporate world this would not be accepted or carry with it heavy consequences such as fines.


One reply compared it to the airline industry:
[quote=ArgonV]It's like buying a plane ticket, then finding out at the airport that the airline sold every seat in the airplane multiple times. Nothing you could've done about it, but you're still not getting what you paid for. Totally the company's fault.[/quote]

While this comparison halts because of the time element (paid to fly on date X at time Y, not buying license to play game Z) it is an interesting thought experiment which shows a somewhat similar situation. More suggestions for metaphors are welcome.

So, what do you think?
What DRM methods have affected you?
How do you deal with it?
What's your idea of the future?

I know we have a piracy thread, but I feel this is an important issue which deserves its own thread.
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby EvanED » Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:18 pm UTC

Coin wrote:What DRM methods have affected you?
Steam. (Not adversely affecting me per se, but by refusing to transfer a duplicate Portal license to a friend (I bought Portal then later the Orange Box) kept that friend from the game.) Whatever KOTOR2 uses, by making it a bitch to install.
How do you deal with it?
Consider DRM a noticeable drop in value and pay less than I otherwise would be willing to. For instance, not buying Spore, waiting to buy Mass Effect 3 only when it was $30 instead of 60, and not buying SimCity yet (I'll buy it when it hits $20 or something).

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Re: The DRM thread

Postby mosc » Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:25 pm UTC

Dealing with Origin for ME3 made me hold off on Sim City more than the DRM. I don't typically mind the DRM if it's non-obtrusive. Steam let me get access to games quickly and easily making pirating far less attractive. I've always believed you can beat piracy by beating it in availability. If I can download a game at blistering speeds and play a few minutes later, why do anything else? When I want digital media, I want it quickly and I want to find it easily. I'll pay for convenience let alone the product.
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby EvanED » Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:44 pm UTC

To be honest I haven't really had much practical problems with Origin. I trust them less than I do Steam (though the Valve EULA change that prohibits class action lawsuits narrowed that gap slightly, and in the bad direction), but I'd say the biggest real problem I've had with it is that it doesn't (or at least didn't) honor the "stay offline" setting through restarts and stuff and I had to block it with a firewall.

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Re: The DRM thread

Postby philsov » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:44 pm UTC

What DRM methods have affected you?
How do you deal with it?
What's your idea of the future?


Within the past few years:

1) An older version of Steam, where I lost internet connection and couldn't go into offline mode. (because the toggle required being online) which meant no library until internet was restored
2) Installation of Fallout 3 via CD. The system detected if I had any virtual drive installed, and if so, prohibited my installation. Which was a complete PITA to bypass -- uninstall drive program, install game, reinstall drive program.
3) Downtime in Diablo 3, especially at the early stages of release

As for dealing with it... eh. The above kinda explains that. I just dealt with it, what else was I to do?

In the future, I see this being a lot more common as internet connection because more prevalent, high speed moreso. I am however very leery to purchase a (single-player) game that's online-only and dependent on their own game servers to function. Especially on release weekend. But, given that most of the games I've also bought on release weekend ALSO sucked, I think I'll doubly hold off on such behavior in the future.

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In the case of SimCity (or D3), a solution would be to have the single player modes not necessarily play and remain on their servers, but do a sort of checkin system and then go about their business. There are ways to make the game DRM-laden without being intrusive (no local saves, requiring game servers to be up) -- Steam as a platform does this VERY well.
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby nitePhyyre » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:33 am UTC

Piracy == problem solved.
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby Kag » Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:16 pm UTC

Well, sort of. You can't actually do that for Diablo 3 and Sim City, since the games are intrinsically online. Even if you pirate them, it doesn't really solve the problem.
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby SurgicalSteel » Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:35 pm UTC

nitePhyyre wrote:Piracy == problem solved.
It might solve the problem for you, this once, for this game, but it doesn't solve the systemic problem of intrusive and harmful DRM versus how to make sure people are paying for the game.
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby EvanED » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:47 pm UTC

New example of DRM annoyance with Steam:
steam.png

Apparently it didn't look very hard. This is a minor complaint from a practical sense -- restarting Steam fixed it -- but it is a problem likely caused purely by DRM.

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Re: The DRM thread

Postby Nylonathatep » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:17 pm UTC

Kag wrote:Well, sort of. You can't actually do that for Diablo 3 and Sim City, since the games are intrinsically online. Even if you pirate them, it doesn't really solve the problem.


Sorta... There are pirate WoW and City of Heroes Servers... All you need is to obtain a copy of the game, install some extra programs, and you can play WoW, Ragnarok Online, and CoH for free by logging onto the private server instead. Some servers even have different settings like gaining xp 4 times faster, better drop rates or more gold. They just need to have their own updates when the actual game comes out with their own patch.

Ofcourse that would be pointless doing that for games that doesn't have a monthly fee...

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Re: The DRM thread

Postby rmsgrey » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:03 pm UTC

Nylonathatep wrote:Ofcourse that would be pointless doing that for games that doesn't have a monthly fee...

Unless you want to mod the game settings server-side

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Re: The DRM thread

Postby eculc » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:15 pm UTC

Nylonathatep wrote:Ofcourse that would be pointless doing that for games that doesn't have a monthly fee...

Unless you have a game that requires you to be connected to a server to play (you know, like Simcity does). you could run the server on your own PC or on a LAN and use that to avoid needing to be online to play.
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:33 pm UTC

My biggest problem with DRM, especially the always online bit, is longevity. I have games from the 90s (maybe even the 80s) that I still play occasionally. If I purchase Diablo 3 or Sim City 5, how many years of play am I going to be able to get out of it before it is no longer supported by the company? What happens if they go bankrupt or get sold off?

Well, sort of. You can't actually do that for Diablo 3 and Sim City, since the games are intrinsically online. Even if you pirate them, it doesn't really solve the problem.


Supposedly an offline crack of Diablo 3 was first released in July 2012.

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Re: The DRM thread

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:48 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:My biggest problem with DRM, especially the always online bit, is longevity. I have games from the 90s (maybe even the 80s) that I still play occasionally. If I purchase Diablo 3 or Sim City 5, how many years of play am I going to be able to get out of it before it is no longer supported by the company? What happens if they go bankrupt or get sold off?

Well, sort of. You can't actually do that for Diablo 3 and Sim City, since the games are intrinsically online. Even if you pirate them, it doesn't really solve the problem.


Supposedly an offline crack of Diablo 3 was first released in July 2012.


Way back when, one of the last patches for Quake II removed the copy protection. Valve has stated that, should they ever have to stop supporting Steam, they intend to release a patch to let it work offline. Granted these are examples of "good guys" rather than standard industry practice, but there's still the global hacker population, who seem to have an average time-to-crack of less than a week for a popular game. There's a good chance that, if you're trying to play a game that's no longer officially supported, you can find fan support online...

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Re: The DRM thread

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:07 am UTC

See Also = Sim City's already been cracked to work offline. Also shows how little online actually does.
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby Xeio » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:28 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:See Also = Sim City's already been cracked to work offline. Also shows how little online actually does.
Not really. They just disabled the limit on the time you can be disconnected. Nothing at the region level will work without online, and they still can't load or save cities.

But it's mostly irrelevant to the in-city simulation.

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Re: The DRM thread

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:33 am UTC

Nothing at the region level will work without online, and they still can't load or save cities.


So, outside of saving... like I said. Does nothing useful.
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby phlip » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:42 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Nothing at the region level will work without online, and they still can't load or save cities.

So, outside of saving... like I said. Does nothing useful.

Hey, that's a pretty unfair characterisation of those features. Loading is pretty useful.

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Re: The DRM thread

Postby Woopate » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:06 am UTC

I somewhat hope that kickstarter ripoffs of games that feature terrible DRM and awesome gameplay becomes a common thing. It would deliver a message, and let me get the good stuff while voting with my dollar.

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Re: The DRM thread

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:28 pm UTC

Of course, what's really fantastic about the always-online DRM is that the company can release a half-finished game, and then charge you extra for DLC and/or patches to fix it.

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Re: The DRM thread

Postby Xeio » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:36 pm UTC

What does always-online DRM have to do with that? They could release a broken game without it.

Though I suppose in that case, if you're really lucky modders might be able to fix some of the bugs.

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Re: The DRM thread

Postby Menacing Spike » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:13 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:Though I suppose in that case, if you're really lucky modders might be able to fix some of the bugs.


See: Arcanum, Oblivion, VTM:B, and many many more CRPGs.

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Re: The DRM thread

Postby Technical Ben » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:15 am UTC

You need to ask, why is the company adding DRM and to what extent. What value does it add to the game? In the customers experience, zero, and may even reduce the games perceived or actual value.
Oh, it does allow the distributor/developer to maintain a monopoly on the product and make a return on investment or a wage from the work. However, what is the real value of that investment, what is the real value of that work?

Is it a product the customer is buying, or does it become a blank piece of paper with an arbitrary value added to it? With DRM it becomes much harder to check the value, receive refunds, retain value or pass on that value.
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby Kag » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:25 pm UTC

The only effective use of DRM in games I can think of off the top of my head is Diablo 3. The implementation makes it vastly more difficult to cheat, which actually does have some real value to everyone else, although it probably wouldn't have been impossible to segment off some kind of offline mode as well. Anyone trying to use DRM to prevent people from accessing their content is doing it completely wrong, and destined to fail.
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby Ralith The Third » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:40 pm UTC

Kag wrote:The only effective use of DRM in games I can think of off the top of my head is Diablo 3. The implementation makes it vastly more difficult to cheat, which actually does have some real value to everyone else, although it probably wouldn't have been impossible to segment off some kind of offline mode as well. Anyone trying to use DRM to prevent people from accessing their content is doing it completely wrong, and destined to fail.


I find steam adds value to my games. It handles updates, it gives me a messaging interface, and it gives me a single place to launch all of the games in it.
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby Xeio » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:46 pm UTC

Ralith The Third wrote:I find steam adds value to my games. It handles updates, it gives me a messaging interface, and it gives me a single place to launch all of the games in it.
Possibly, but you rarely hear people say Origin adds value to a game when it does the same things (Steam has other features though, and Origin adds... uh... Twitch streaming I think is the only unique thing it currently does between them).

Ideally I'd prefer to be able to pick the distribution platform for my games and not be forced to use any of them. Ah, why can't such a fantasy come true?

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Re: The DRM thread

Postby Ralith The Third » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:54 pm UTC

Oh, Origin is trash. It's more intrusive than steam is, and doesn't have all the nice features. I have as of yet put anything with Origin on my computer, and it will be a long time until I do - because it will be a long time until it's worth it for me. You would, quite literally, have to pay me to play BF3 because of Origin.
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby savanik » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:19 pm UTC

I realize this isn't the Simcity thread at this point, but I just wanted to point out, for all their attempts at foiling pirated software, cracks are already available for Simcity that don't require EA, Origin, or always-on connections.

In side news, EA Label's President is saying that DRM is a failed model. They're also claiming that the always online requirement wasn't forced onto the creative team, was actually totally the creative team's idea in the first place, and that it's not DRM, it was intended to be a MMO.

So of course you'd always need to be online, it's just like any other MMO's servers, like City of Heroes.
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby Xeio » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:48 pm UTC

savanik wrote:I realize this isn't the Simcity thread at this point, but I just wanted to point out, for all their attempts at foiling pirated software, cracks are already available for Simcity that don't require EA, Origin, or always-on connections.
Are you sure about that? The main release site* that distributes those things hasn't posted it yet and still has a "wait" label (though there are fakes floating around). I haven't seen any news outlets posting about a fully server-less cracked version which given the launch issues around it is likely to happen (there have been articles about the time limit and debug mode mods, but those still require the server to save/load/region stuff).

I'd imagine this is going to eventually be cracked like Diablo 3, but the pirate version essentially needs to reverse engineer the server so it's slow work.

*Could be a different group cracked it before them, I dunno, I'll admit I only watch those circles as a curiosity.

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Re: The DRM thread

Postby Ralith The Third » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:06 pm UTC

There is a crack that allows you to play without an internet connection. There is not a crack (yet) that allows you to save or load games locally. So.. sort of a crack. No issue if you can run it 24/7, or are willing to reconnect to save/load, but an issue if you want purely offline play.
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:47 pm UTC

savanik wrote:I realize this isn't the Simcity thread at this point, but I just wanted to point out, for all their attempts at foiling pirated software, cracks are already available for Simcity that don't require EA, Origin, or always-on connections.

In side news, EA Label's President is saying that DRM is a failed model. They're also claiming that the always online requirement wasn't forced onto the creative team, was actually totally the creative team's idea in the first place, and that it's not DRM, it was intended to be a MMO.

So of course you'd always need to be online, it's just like any other MMO's servers, like City of Heroes.
Then it's still a failure of communication between the Creative Team and the Marketing Department, as if you want to sell a SimCity MMO that's fine... Call it a SimCity MMO. Or SimCity Online. Or Friends of SimCity. Anything other than SimCity.
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby Zindaras » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:07 pm UTC

EvanED wrote:
Coin wrote:What DRM methods have affected you?
Steam. (Not adversely affecting me per se, but by refusing to transfer a duplicate Portal license to a friend (I bought Portal then later the Orange Box) kept that friend from the game.) Whatever KOTOR2 uses, by making it a bitch to install.
How do you deal with it?
Consider DRM a noticeable drop in value and pay less than I otherwise would be willing to. For instance, not buying Spore, waiting to buy Mass Effect 3 only when it was $30 instead of 60, and not buying SimCity yet (I'll buy it when it hits $20 or something).


I wouldn't consider not buying Spore a negative thing. As far as disappointments go, Spore ranks pretty highly.

I don't buy a lot of games, so I tend not to have a lot of problems. The games I do buy are mostly Valve (Half-Life/Portal/Team Fortress) or Blizzard (Starcraft/Diablo). I also bought Spore, where the limited number of installs was pretty annoying, but I never actually reached that limit (which was pretty easy, since it's crap). I haven't had any problems with the Valve games, which work offline and aren't terribly intrusive. Diablo III, on the other hand...

I think the always online requirement is just total and complete nonsense. My Internet connection isn't always perfect. So I get kicked out of the game just when I'm about to finish Diablo off simply because my Internet isn't perfect? Why can't I play Diablo when traveling in the train? I think it's stupid that companies almost force gamers into pirating games just to get full use/value out of their games. And it's not even like that's what's going to determine sales. I buy games not because they are difficult to crack (hell, other people will be doing the cracking for me so I don't really have to do anything for it), I buy games because I think some games are just good enough and merit it (though I'll be honest in saying that I regret buying Spore).

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Re: The DRM thread

Postby Ixtellor » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:17 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Then it's still a failure of communication between the Creative Team and the Marketing Department, as if you want to sell a SimCity MMO that's fine... Call it a SimCity MMO. Or SimCity Online. Or Friends of SimCity. Anything other than SimCity.


Semantics. Identical games -- Simcity = bad, Simcity MMO = good?

And its obviously not an MMO --- thats smoke and mirrors.
Doesn't change the fact they can and should call the game anything they please.

As to DRM and the complainers, it always seems to fall down to people's sense that they are entitled to something -- and when companies don't give them their fabricated entitlement they rant.
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:26 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:As to DRM and the complainers, it always seems to fall down to people's sense that they are entitled to something -- and when companies don't give them their fabricated entitlement they rant.


No, it's a rational free market response. Most products with DRM are objectively worse than the same product without it--DRM isn't value-added for the consumer; it is, if anything, value lost, and it is painfully obvious that this is the case.

[edit]As an aside, apparently the "always-online" feature in Sim City can be removed by changing two lines of code, though a mod for local saves hasn't yet been developed.
Last edited by LaserGuy on Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:32 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The DRM thread

Postby EvanED » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:32 pm UTC

Zindaras wrote:I wouldn't consider not buying Spore a negative thing. As far as disappointments go, Spore ranks pretty highly.
Well, it's a negative thing for EA, which was a large part of my point. Because it looked really awesome for a while (though did have that "overhyped?" feel), and by the time EA relented a little (raising the install limit and allowing deauthorization) and it came down in price, it was well known that it was a disappointment. Without the intrusive DRM, I'd have bought it when it came out, joined the group of disappointed folks, and EA missed out on my sale.

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Re: The DRM thread

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:32 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:Then it's still a failure of communication between the Creative Team and the Marketing Department, as if you want to sell a SimCity MMO that's fine... Call it a SimCity MMO. Or SimCity Online. Or Friends of SimCity. Anything other than SimCity.


Semantics. Identical games -- Simcity = bad, Simcity MMO = good?

And its obviously not an MMO --- thats smoke and mirrors.
Doesn't change the fact they can and should call the game anything they please.

As to DRM and the complainers, it always seems to fall down to people's sense that they are entitled to something -- and when companies don't give them their fabricated entitlement they rant.


The name in this case is shorthand for the entire marketing campaign and what ends up being promised/implied about the game.

And, yes, a lot of the complaints about DRM come from people's idea that they're entitled to enjoy the use of property for which they paid a reasonable amount of money on the basis of certain expectations fostered by the marketing campaign. Being told that they can't play the game unless they have a sufficiently-stable permanent internet connection, and that it's their fault for not reading the fine-print (which is often only available after you've made the purchase anyway) or that playing the game means that their computer will be more vulnerable to (other) malware because of rootkit copy protection, they get a little upset about it.

It's not "I want to make free copies to give to all my friends"; it's "I paid for a copy of the game; I want to be able to play it without having to ask permission to keep playing every 20 minutes"

It's the mismatch of expectations between the consumer who thinks they're getting ownership of something, and the publisher who thinks they're selling indefinite access to a service (so long as the publisher chooses to maintain said service).

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Re: The DRM thread

Postby Chen » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:33 pm UTC

Zindaras wrote:I think the always online requirement is just total and complete nonsense. My Internet connection isn't always perfect. So I get kicked out of the game just when I'm about to finish Diablo off simply because my Internet isn't perfect? Why can't I play Diablo when traveling in the train? I think it's stupid that companies almost force gamers into pirating games just to get full use/value out of their games. And it's not even like that's what's going to determine sales. I buy games not because they are difficult to crack (hell, other people will be doing the cracking for me so I don't really have to do anything for it), I buy games because I think some games are just good enough and merit it (though I'll be honest in saying that I regret buying Spore).


Diablo's always online thing ends up working as DRM but its mainly, from what I understand, an anti-cheating/maintaining the integrity of the AH/RMAH mechanism. Even closed battle.net was full of hacks/cheats in Diablo 2. By making the server do a lot of the storage of items/characters and such, you remove a good ability to hack at the game and produce dupes and the like. From what I've seen all the "dupes" in D3 come from people exploiting the roll-back procedure (i.e., give your good items to dummy account X. Call Blizz and say you were hacked and get them to roll back your account and get your stuff back. Voila instant dupes).

rmsgrey
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:36 pm UTC

EvanED wrote:
Zindaras wrote:I wouldn't consider not buying Spore a negative thing. As far as disappointments go, Spore ranks pretty highly.
Well, it's a negative thing for EA, which was a large part of my point. Because it looked really awesome for a while (though did have that "overhyped?" feel), and by the time EA relented a little (raising the install limit and allowing deauthorization) and it came down in price, it was well known that it was a disappointment. Without the intrusive DRM, I'd have bought it when it came out, joined the group of disappointed folks, and EA missed out on my sale.

Personally, having bought Spore after the DRM went and the price dropped, I'm not particularly disappointed by it - the cell stage is a fun mobile-phone game in its own right, and the space stage is open-ended enough to be as much of a time sink as anyone could want.

Zindaras
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby Zindaras » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:16 pm UTC

EvanED wrote:
Zindaras wrote:I wouldn't consider not buying Spore a negative thing. As far as disappointments go, Spore ranks pretty highly.
Well, it's a negative thing for EA, which was a large part of my point. Because it looked really awesome for a while (though did have that "overhyped?" feel), and by the time EA relented a little (raising the install limit and allowing deauthorization) and it came down in price, it was well known that it was a disappointment. Without the intrusive DRM, I'd have bought it when it came out, joined the group of disappointed folks, and EA missed out on my sale.


I followed the game from the original presentation. The creature phase was a lot more interesting at that point than it was at the end product. Throughout the presentations, we saw gameplay from the point of view of a young creature, we saw serious social interaction, we saw actual predator/prey relationships. A lot of those things got cut out. I didn't really read anything, I just took the presentations I saw and wanted to play that game. Basically not a single feature was added from the first presentation to, what, five years later, when it was actually published.

Chen wrote:
Zindaras wrote:I think the always online requirement is just total and complete nonsense. My Internet connection isn't always perfect. So I get kicked out of the game just when I'm about to finish Diablo off simply because my Internet isn't perfect? Why can't I play Diablo when traveling in the train? I think it's stupid that companies almost force gamers into pirating games just to get full use/value out of their games. And it's not even like that's what's going to determine sales. I buy games not because they are difficult to crack (hell, other people will be doing the cracking for me so I don't really have to do anything for it), I buy games because I think some games are just good enough and merit it (though I'll be honest in saying that I regret buying Spore).


Diablo's always online thing ends up working as DRM but its mainly, from what I understand, an anti-cheating/maintaining the integrity of the AH/RMAH mechanism. Even closed battle.net was full of hacks/cheats in Diablo 2. By making the server do a lot of the storage of items/characters and such, you remove a good ability to hack at the game and produce dupes and the like. From what I've seen all the "dupes" in D3 come from people exploiting the roll-back procedure (i.e., give your good items to dummy account X. Call Blizz and say you were hacked and get them to roll back your account and get your stuff back. Voila instant dupes).


On the other hand, much like with DRM, this means that the people who play fairly get shafted. I'm neither a fan nor a user of the AH (though I do use it to sell items, I just don't buy anything there), so I don't want to have to go through all of that. They could also just add a single-player mode without AH so that people could still play there if they have no internet possibilities.

rmsgrey wrote:
EvanED wrote:
Zindaras wrote:I wouldn't consider not buying Spore a negative thing. As far as disappointments go, Spore ranks pretty highly.
Well, it's a negative thing for EA, which was a large part of my point. Because it looked really awesome for a while (though did have that "overhyped?" feel), and by the time EA relented a little (raising the install limit and allowing deauthorization) and it came down in price, it was well known that it was a disappointment. Without the intrusive DRM, I'd have bought it when it came out, joined the group of disappointed folks, and EA missed out on my sale.

Personally, having bought Spore after the DRM went and the price dropped, I'm not particularly disappointed by it - the cell stage is a fun mobile-phone game in its own right, and the space stage is open-ended enough to be as much of a time sink as anyone could want.


The cell stage is objectively fun.I always really enjoyed playing it. The difference between the cell stage and the rest is that there are actually multiple possible strategies in the cell game, that really play differently (the weapons all play very differently). Creature and tribe amount to not much more than button mashing, space stage is fun but also becomes repetitive quickly, especially with the dreadfully annoying invasions that keep calling you back to your home planets to do the same thing over and over and over again.

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Adam H
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Re: The DRM thread

Postby Adam H » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:21 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:As to DRM piracy and the complainers game makers, it always seems to fall down to people's sense that they are entitled to something -- and when companies consumers don't give them their fabricated entitlement they rant.

Buying/selling a game involves both parties agreeing to give each other something. When one party doesn't follow through on their promise (implied or explicit), the other party has every right to complain.

(I don't think that DRM is as unethical as piracy, but it's not that bad of an analogy.)
Last edited by Adam H on Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:35 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
-Adam


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