Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Will » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:54 am UTC

Also keep in mind that this person you're describing doesn't exist. Boston PD have clearly stated that they do not have anyone, brown skinned or otherwise, in custody.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:58 am UTC

3 dead.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Shepherdess » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:59 am UTC

The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:3 dead.


Someone die in the hospital or did they find someone who was dead?
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:07 am UTC

That's weird, I mean, I stopped checking the news around 6:15 and just came back to the forums and this is the first I'm hearing of a Saudi national. Should the N be capitalized?
I feel like if this was a real thing I'd have heard about it, and I didn't.
Telchar wrote:Based on the reports and pictures the bomb doesn't seem to have been that large but was packed with shrapnel such as ball bearings. CNN is reporting that medical personal are dealing with shrapnel removal.

I can't think of a domestic terrorist bombing like that but that doesn't mean they haven't changed or don't exist. Either way, I'm hope everyone on the forum is okay and I hope that those wounded do recover.

Did you google? cause that seems like something I'd be completely unsurprised by.


It's really interesting to see what people think of 'domestic terrorism' and 'Americans making bombs'.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:13 am UTC

Zarq wrote:Police are denying that there was ever a Saudi national in custody. I highly doubt that the bomber was actually nearby. Cell phone linked triggers aren't exactly hard to make, and the whole event was televised.


He had to drop off the bomb at some point. There are rumors about a "suspicious man with a backpack". But according to this forums, police scanners are reporting a number of "suspicious reports". I think everyone is freaking out. Every lost backpack in Boston right now is a suspicious backpack. I don't think it's uncommon for a guy with a backpack to be at a marathon (especially at the finish line. If you're holding water for your friend who's finishing the race or something...)

Anyway, considering that the 3rd bomb was found but failed to detonate... makes me wonder how lucky some people are. I know Boston temporarily shut down the cell phone network (which led to a lot of confusion), but it seems like a good move in hindsight. That 3rd bomb might have been prevented because cell phones were down.

Fantastic Idea wrote:It's really interesting to see what people think of 'domestic terrorism' and 'Americans making bombs'.


I'm old enough to remember that "American Terrorists" were the norm. The whole 9/11 thing changed terrorist into a Muslim thing unfortunately... and the image has struck a cord with Americans.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Darryl » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:13 am UTC

Fantastic Idea wrote:That's weird, I mean, I stopped checking the news around 6:15 and just came back to the forums and this is the first I'm hearing of a Saudi national. Should the N be capitalized?
I feel like if this was a real thing I'd have heard about it, and I didn't.

It isn't a real thing, it's a thing made up by the NY Post. Boston PD has, again, confirmed they have no suspects being held.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:14 am UTC

Darryl wrote:
Fantastic Idea wrote:That's weird, I mean, I stopped checking the news around 6:15 and just came back to the forums and this is the first I'm hearing of a Saudi national. Should the N be capitalized?
I feel like if this was a real thing I'd have heard about it, and I didn't.

It isn't a real thing, it's a thing made up by the NY Post. Boston PD has, again, confirmed they have no suspects being held.


Unfortunate. My local news station is currently reporting the Saudi thing as well. I wish these guys would get their facts straight :roll:
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Adacore » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:15 am UTC

In terms of the actual type of bomb, I don't know how similar ball-bearing bombs are to nail-bombs, but the event this most reminds me of is the 1999 London bombings, by David Copeland (which were the work of a single individual and targetted migrant/non-white and gay communities).

Ninja'd 3 times - this was a lot more relevant to the discussion when I wrote it!

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Shepherdess » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:20 am UTC

MSNBC just said "Officials say they do not have a suspect, but they are talking to a Saudi man in the hospital..." Ugh. I could understand earlier information being erratic, but seriously.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:27 am UTC

Adacore wrote:In terms of the actual type of bomb, I don't know how similar ball-bearing bombs are to nail-bombs, but the event this most reminds me of is the 1999 London bombings, by David Copeland (which were the work of a single individual and targetted migrant/non-white and gay communities).

Ninja'd 3 times - this was a lot more relevant to the discussion when I wrote it!


Al Queda has been publishing bomb-making information, in the hopes of teaching lone-wolf terrorists in the US how to make more lethal bombs. I wouldn't be surprised if the attacks today were based on that magazine.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Shepherdess » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:33 am UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:
Adacore wrote:In terms of the actual type of bomb, I don't know how similar ball-bearing bombs are to nail-bombs, but the event this most reminds me of is the 1999 London bombings, by David Copeland (which were the work of a single individual and targetted migrant/non-white and gay communities).

Ninja'd 3 times - this was a lot more relevant to the discussion when I wrote it!


Al Queda has been publishing bomb-making information, in the hopes of teaching lone-wolf terrorists in the US how to make more lethal bombs. I wouldn't be surprised if the attacks today were based on that magazine.


Whether they were based on the same ideology remains the question.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:03 am UTC

I just read that the bomb was detonated at 4hrs 9m, a fairly average time. Whether or not that was intentional, I feel my previous insistence that runners weren't targeted may have been to optimistic.

Scary day indeed.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Shepherdess » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:04 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I just read that the bomb was detonated at 4hrs 9m, a fairly average time. Whether or not that was intentional, I feel my previous insistence that runners weren't targeted may have been to optimistic.

Scary day indeed.


The bombs went off when a good chunk of the runners were crossing the finish line, a few hours after the winners. (Or so the news tells me. I don't know enough about marathons to really claim it myself.)
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Telchar » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:09 am UTC

KnightExemplar wrote: I know Boston temporarily shut down the cell phone network (which led to a lot of confusion), but it seems like a good move in hindsight. That 3rd bomb might have been prevented because cell phones were down.


My understanding was that the cellphone network wasn't shutdown by the government, but that the massive amount of cell traffic immediately following the explosion had shut down the towers with reported spotty reception inside the Boston area. I can't cite this, as the news seems to have moved on, but I remember it being reported that way on either MSNBC or CNN.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby phlip » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:29 am UTC

I think it was a bit of both - the network was heavily overloaded (as you'd expect) right after the explosions... and then later, when they stared to find more devices that hadn't exploded, they shut down the network intentionally as a precaution.

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Telchar » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:35 am UTC

Found my sources. MSNBC video has a piece on it and just found this that seems to confirm the "not shutdown" but probably the congestion combined with priority being given to emergency/911 calls and Commercial Mobile Alert System outgoing traffic.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:41 am UTC

Darryl wrote:
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liveboy21 wrote:Ugh, the Australian news went with the 'Saudi national' angle. I do hate that news outlets sometimes feel the need to publish without checking. Then again, they could be the ones that are right, I have no way of knowing.

CBS says that there was a Saudi national there...after the bomb went off he started running away and somebody who thought that was suspicious tackled him. Or something like that. I do not find that to be so unbelievable.

It's suspicious to run away from an explosion?

Oh right, it was suspicious because he was brown. No one would have blinked an eye at all the white people running away from the explosion.
I know several Saudi nationals who watched the marathon today, and presumably most of them would have run away from an explosion along with everyone else there.

I know the Saudi national thing is a fiction (or at least the version reported by the Post is confirmed to have been), but that doesn't stop it being super scary how ready many people are to immediately accept that it was someone from the Middle East (or at least the same color), especially considering how many such people I count among my friends and acquaintances.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:48 am UTC

Darryl wrote:
Sheikh al-Majaneen wrote:
liveboy21 wrote:Ugh, the Australian news went with the 'Saudi national' angle. I do hate that news outlets sometimes feel the need to publish without checking. Then again, they could be the ones that are right, I have no way of knowing.

CBS says that there was a Saudi national there...after the bomb went off he started running away and somebody who thought that was suspicious tackled him. Or something like that. I do not find that to be so unbelievable.

It's suspicious to run away from an explosion?

Oh right, it was suspicious because he was brown. No one would have blinked an eye at all the white people running away from the explosion.



Oh please, we all know that good red blooded (white) Americans have a sexual attraction towards explosions, as evidenced by Michael Bay's success. Anyone running away is clearly a cowardly terrorist and not at all someone just trying to get away from any place dangerous.

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Iulus Cofield » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:58 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:I know several Saudi nationals who watched the marathon today, and presumably most of them would have run away from an explosion along with everyone else there.

I know the Saudi national thing is a fiction (or at least the version reported by the Post is confirmed to have been), but that doesn't stop it being super scary how ready many people are to immediately accept that it was someone from the Middle East (or at least the same color), especially considering how many such people I count among my friends and acquaintances.


I suspect that if the story was a white, American born Muslim the ready acceptance would have been the same, based on the crap my brother got after 9/11.

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Lucrece » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:05 am UTC

Incredible how not only did they put a bomb in -- they put shrapnel in it.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Shepherdess » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:09 am UTC

Lucrece wrote:Incredible how not only did they put a bomb in -- they put shrapnel in it.


Not uncommon, is it?
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Derek » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:14 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Oh please, we all know that good red blooded (white) Americans have a sexual attraction towards explosions, as evidenced by Michael Bay's success. Anyone running away is clearly a cowardly terrorist and not at all someone just trying to get away from any place dangerous.

It is also acceptable to walk away while not looking at the explosion. But running is right out.

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Jack21222 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:21 am UTC

Peace activist Carlos Arredondo was interviewed on the local news. If you guys saw the picture of the guy with his legs blown off, with just shredded parts hanging down, there was a guy in a cowboy hat helping him along, holding his femoral artery closed. That guy in the cowboy hat is Carlos Arredondo. Carlos lost his son in Iraq, then his other son took his own life in 2011.

When the bomb went off, this man's first instinct was to run TOWARDS the blast, and he immediately started carrying people to get medical attention. This guy was covered in the blood of the people he helped, and is a damn hero in my book.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:35 am UTC

Shepherdess wrote:
Lucrece wrote:Incredible how not only did they put a bomb in -- they put shrapnel in it.


Not uncommon, is it?

I was under the impression that this is how you make bombs when you want them to cause a lot of damage... especially soft tissue damage.
I guess not everyone watches the same TV/reads the same news as me.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:41 am UTC

Shepherdess wrote:
Lucrece wrote:Incredible how not only did they put a bomb in -- they put shrapnel in it.


Not uncommon, is it?


The Unibomber used Nails as shrapnel IIRC. The IRA (Irish Republican Army) used Sugar / Gasoline as a primary component... creating a napalm-like mixture.

Yeah, terrorists who wish to do damage tend to do nasty stuff like that.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:47 am UTC

Every third bomb in a fiction show on TV is designed to fragment into shrapnel. The other two have C4. Always C4. Of course, these materials are all used improperly, but still. you can tell the writers at least looked at pictures of explosives.

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:29 am UTC

One thing I've seen in a lot of reports is there seems to be a lot of (lower) leg injuries. Is that actually the case? Would it just be from the position of the bombs?
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:32 am UTC

I know this is somewhat cliche, and I apologize for that, but I saw this quote by Fred Rogers and it resonated;

"When I was a boy and saw something scary in the news, my mother would say to look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping."

There's a blood drive at Brandeis tomorrow that runs for three days. Someone has posted a google docfor offering places to people who need a place to crash while this is resolved. I am, more than anything, inspired to run a marathon.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Fire Brns » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:13 am UTC

Fantastic Idea wrote:Your sentence structure is misleading. You should work on not presenting your opinions as facts so much.

I didn't think I had, they were simple observations.

And being educated is one thing but having hands on experience is another. With concern to the al-queda bomb manual, how many people have successfully cooked a obscure dish after looking up a recipe online? It takes a few tries to get it right.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Alexius » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:28 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I just read that the bomb was detonated at 4hrs 9m, a fairly average time. Whether or not that was intentional, I feel my previous insistence that runners weren't targeted may have been to optimistic.

Scary day indeed.

The Boston Marathon is unusually fast. Because it's so oversubscribed, you usually have to qualify by running a marathon below a certain time- this depends on age, but is under 4 hours unless you're over 65 (if male) or over 50 (if female).

So by the time the bomb went off, most of the runners had already crossed the line. Apparently it would have been a lot worse had it been an hour earlier (the qualifying time for men 18-34 is 3 hrs 5 min).

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby keozen » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:42 am UTC

Quick Update Review:

News & Situation Update:

► 3 dead (including one 8 year old boy who's father was running. His sister and mother are also injured)
► 17 people critically wounded
► "At least" 140 injured
► Injuries include severed limbs but are mainly shrapnel related
► The Saudi man was NOT linked to the bombings and has been cleared by the FBI ( http://bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/15 ... story.html )
► Police have been searching a Revere apartment and have left with several "bags of Evidence" ( https://twitter.com/HagerWBZ/status/324 ... 72/photo/1 )
► No 100% solid info as yet but at this point it doesn't look like the JFK Library fire was related ( http://www.dotnews.com/2013/jfk-library ... hon-attack )
► No Suspects in custody
► No group has yet claimed responsibility
► Westboro are already trying to be dicks I advise everyone to just ignore them

Useful Info:

► FBI need any new pics & videos they may not have seen yet for analysis, send any to boston@ic.fbi.gov
► If you are in Boston and have a place to offer up to displaced marathon runners, etc then there's a google doc setup to help ( https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1dqIKVq ... w/viewform )
► Disaster Distress Helpline at 1-800-985-5990 (if you require counselling)
► Google Person Finder ( http://google.org/personfinder/2013-boston-explosions/ )
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Steax » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:40 am UTC

There were some really graphic recollections of the deaths on location. I really feel for the families, and I hope the wounded get well soon.

keozen wrote:► Westboro are already trying to be dicks I advise everyone to just ignore them


You warned us but WHAT THE FUCK?
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Zamfir » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:01 am UTC

Just ignore it, at least in here.

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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby keozen » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:10 am UTC

Steax wrote:There were some really graphic recollections of the deaths on location. I really feel for the families, and I hope the wounded get well soon.

keozen wrote:► Westboro are already trying to be dicks I advise everyone to just ignore them


You warned us but WHAT THE FUCK?

They do it for publicity and reactions. Best way to fight them is to read what they say, think "Arseholes!" to yourself silently and move on ignoring them. Everything else just fans the fire.

That's the last time I'll mention them in relation to this.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Steax » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:19 am UTC

Sorry, didn't mean to bring that up. (It's not like there's a better reaction that's not a one-liner, though, anyway.) I was looking a news posts wondering if anyone claimed responsibility. I don't know, this sounds rather odd to me... It's been 12 hours or so and nobody turned up. I think my brain's tuned to the current 'war on terror' or whatever they call it now; someone detonates something, people get hurt, some group quickly claim responsibility (sometimes with multiple trying to claim it). Now there's nothing.

I really wanted to know what kind of rationale someone could have for this. It's a marathon by people from around the world. Compared to other targeted places in the past like subways and stadiums, more children are present. It's just insane.

An old friend of mine was close enough to the blast to have hearing damage. His story was terrifying.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Red Hal » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:37 am UTC

Thanks for the summary, Keo.
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby keozen » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:39 am UTC

Honestly, it's pure speculation of course but the target seems to be 100% geared up for visibility.

Oldest marathon in the world, devices on the finish line in clear view of TV cameras, detonated when statistically a large percentage of people will be finishing, etc. The people were the secondary target, the TV cameras were the main one.

Again, pure speculation.

Red Hal wrote:Thanks for the summary, Keo.


No worries. I was looking for a bulleted summary myself this morning as everything was still at the "breaking" stage when I was off to bed and I wanted to catch up. After I didn't find one that was worth anything I thought I'd make one.
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Tyndmyr
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:41 am UTC

Fire Brns wrote:The news was on the tv at work all day. I felt sick to my stomach watching the footage.

My first though was domestic, Boston being very left wing a right wing extremist could of done it or even a left wing extremist hoping to blame tea party or the like. Islamic extremists generally target better areas and symbols of western culture. Lone crazy person seems unlikely too, this looks like something that required a bit of planning.

Regardless of the motivations the bomb maker had to be American because they were too incompetent. Several undetonated devices and a relatively low kill count kind of support this. Most Americans don't know how to make bombs properly. Overseas terrorists, they have more experience.


I dunno. It LOOKS like there's a shock wave going out in the video. IE, the device went supersonic like a proper explosive. There's also not a ton of smoke/byproduct, like you'd expect from a really crude device. Blackpowder produces billowing clouds and doesn't go supersonic, generally. Your stock fertilizer bomb produces a nitric acid cloud. In other words, they're calling the bombs crude, but from what little information I have, I don't know that they actually are. Putting a shearing device at foot level might actually be intentional...ie, he might have been explicitly going for crippling as many people as possible.

Dunno if that's more or less horrifying than someone going for a body count, but incompetent as a bombmaker isn't necessarily the case. He may have been going for exactly this.

Still, the choice of targets seems a bit odd to me. Oh, sure, I get the crowds and televised event thing...but it still seems to lack symbolism. Last mile dedicated to Sandy Hook? Well...maybe. But seems like long odds. The finish line crowd is going to be biggest anyway, and have the most media covering it. I don't think the positioning necessarily means anything other than that those factors were desired(and probably are by most terrorists, so it doesn't help much).

Iulus Cofield wrote:
Fire Brns wrote:I meant in terms of anyone with motivation to commit a bombing lacks discipline and formal education in the engineering and chemistry aspects of it. Most ex military have enough discipline and sense of honor to not pull this crap. McVeigh is the only American I can think of who had every device he built go off and that was only because it was one big bomb.


Wasn't the Colorado theater shooter from last year in a PhD program? I don't think you can really rule out smart, educated people being violently mentally ill and there must be tens of thousands of documented terrorists who were well educated and disciplined.


Was getting kicked out of college. That said, he had to have had at least a modicum of intelligence to get in. Other intelligent people have definitely done crazy stuff as well, too. It's certainly possible, but it's hard to be sure given the sparseness of facts.

The backpack stuff will likely mostly be red herrings, Im afraid. Backpacks at sporting events are kind of common. Unless they can find a guy who was suspiciously carrying a whole bunch of backpacks and leaving them...I dunno if focusing on that will be that helpful.

engr
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby engr » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:59 am UTC

This post had objectionable content.

Unacceptable. Do not try to start fights in this thread. Any continuation down this line of thought is banworthy.
-B
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. Gilbert K. Chesterton

Tyndmyr
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Re: Bombing at Boston Marathon Finish Line.

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:01 pm UTC

Personally, I'd rather this thread didn't get derailed into bashing each other. I've confirmed that none of the folks I know have gotten hurt in this, but I'm still interested in hearing about the event itself and its aftermath.


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