1190: "Time"

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fatness
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby fatness » Thu May 16, 2013 5:49 pm UTC

Dracomax wrote:you may be placed in the foam maiden(it's like the iron maiden, but made out of the tthe memory foam they use in mattresses.)

Is it comfy?

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Dracomax » Thu May 16, 2013 5:50 pm UTC

fatness wrote:
Dracomax wrote:you may be placed in the foam maiden(it's like the iron maiden, but made out of the tthe memory foam they use in mattresses.)

Is it comfy?

I dunno. All the commercials say so.
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im afraid so, but let me tell you something, the best people usualy are.”
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jjjdavidson » Thu May 16, 2013 5:55 pm UTC

Dracomax wrote:
fatness wrote:
Dracomax wrote:you may be placed in the foam maiden(it's like the iron maiden, but made out of the tthe memory foam they use in mattresses.)

Is it comfy?

I dunno. All the commercials say so.

The Inquisition runs commercials? Man, I'd love to see one of your ad agency's storyboards.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Eoink » Thu May 16, 2013 5:57 pm UTC

jjjdavidson wrote:
Dracomax wrote:
fatness wrote:
Dracomax wrote:you may be placed in the foam maiden(it's like the iron maiden, but made out of the tthe memory foam they use in mattresses.)

Is it comfy?

I dunno. All the commercials say so.

The Inquisition runs commercials? Man, I'd love to see one of your ad agency's storyboards.


They're not what you expect...

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby k.bookbinder » Thu May 16, 2013 5:57 pm UTC

Dracomax wrote: No, Today is after dinner mints, and stale goldfish crackers. also, you may be placed in the foam maiden(it's like the iron maiden, but made out of the tthe memory foam they use in mattresses.)


Oh dear. The Foam Maiden sounds awfully terribly comfortable.

Yes indeed, why is something full of awe not good, but fully awe is good, and though something terrible is not good, a thing can be terribly good? Hm.

*soflty sings* I love goldfishes 'cause they're so delicious/ gonna go fishing...

Edit: removed malformed spoiler block demon
Last edited by k.bookbinder on Thu May 16, 2013 6:13 pm UTC, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Opiboble » Thu May 16, 2013 5:58 pm UTC

Dracomax wrote:
fatness wrote:
Dracomax wrote:you may be placed in the foam maiden(it's like the iron maiden, but made out of the tthe memory foam they use in mattresses.)

Is it comfy?

I dunno. All the commercials say so.

As an owner of one I can say: YES THEY ARE WONDERFUL!!!
Sea1(Big) River2(Small) Tree3(Neat) Camp4(Old) River5(Pretty Neat) Place6(beautiful & empty) Found7(Ribbit) Bigtree8(It knows)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jjjdavidson » Thu May 16, 2013 6:02 pm UTC

GettONG up...
Image
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Don't wait for me.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HES » Thu May 16, 2013 6:03 pm UTC

ucim wrote:@HES - brilliant! (but for the sake of future Pilgrims, could you change the "you can find it here" link to point to this newpix which was current as of this newpage, rather than to the currently current newpix (which will refresh to a spoiler as Time marches on)? If you right-click and select "show image", then right-click and select "properties" on the resulting page, you should get the hash-version of the (now) current picture, which will freeze the comic in time. Even if it is a few newpix off, it should be close enough.)

Jose

It was more designed for those retrospectively reading it, but given the lack of warning for those in the past I'll journey back and correct it
(oh, and thanks :D )
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Opiboble » Thu May 16, 2013 6:04 pm UTC

jjjdavidson wrote:GettONG up...
Spoiler:
Image

I wonder if the river is in the same direction/newpix as cueball went last time and found the camp4.


4which is old.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Thu May 16, 2013 6:05 pm UTC

jjjdavidson wrote:GettONG up...
Image

I gotta bad feelin' about this. Something will not be right with the river.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Sciscitor » Thu May 16, 2013 6:05 pm UTC

Cool new art today: The Raven, Hotel California, insightful story analyses... awesome, really awesome!

I am working on a project of my own, trying to figure out information content of postings. But folks, being a lowly amateur, I am gonna need help with this from someone of the professional data wranglers on here:
To measure added informational content I compress the whole OTT up to the posting before the one that is to be analyzed. Then I compress the whole OTT including the posting that is to be analyzed. (Both times using the bzip2 algorithm on highest.) Then I subtract the size of the first from the one of the second compression output.
By eyeballing the first 200 results I thought that this would be quite right. As expected the added information value gets smaller over time and (very roughly) correlates with the length of the posting. But after about 1000 postings or so something strange happens: Some postings (especially short ones) suddenly have negative information content! The compressed size including them is actually smaller than the one excluding them. I am a bit baffled. My only guess would be some artefact of the inner workings of the bzip2 library... any ideas?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jetpac » Thu May 16, 2013 6:05 pm UTC

bookbinder, you might want to try to fix that post one more time

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby StratPlayer » Thu May 16, 2013 6:06 pm UTC

Still doing the ketchup blitz, but it's a nanoblitz now...

But as I was doing this, I was thinking about our recurring discussions about blitzers and ketchupers and past-posting, and I had a moment of inspiration. I thought of an old song I'd referenced before, but had not properly filked. So, in preparation for what will eventually become a ketchup post of my own at some point, I'd like to offer this:

"Thank You for Letting Me Post My Blitz"
(Based on "Thank You Falettinme Be Mice Elf Agin" by Sly and the Family Stone

Spoiler:
Looking at the newpix;
it's an older one.
Progress, I'm making;
but nowhere near done.
Current, I'm chasing;
I don't dare to stop.
Thoughts, I've a mess of,
starting from the top:

I want to thank you for letting me post my blitz, again;
I want to thank you for letting me post my blitz, again!

Trying to follow,
pages off the pace.
'Tip-tap-typy,' typin',
always out of place.
I have missed the parties,
and jokes along the way;
Many things are on my mind,
I will try to say...

I want to thank you for letting me post my blitz, again;
I want to thank you for letting me post my blitz, again!

Spoiler'd my signpost;
hope that isn't wrong.
Don't want any people
to miss the new ONG.
Maybe I'm too sappy,
don't wanna make you cry,
but I'm still thinking,
my words are worth a try...

I want to thank you for letting me post my blitz, again.
Different posts for different folks, yeah!
I want to thank you for letting me post my blitz, again!

Flamin' words of peoples thoughts, burnin' into view
Maybe folks are missin' much -- my posts are thoughts, too.

Yes, I'm quoting old stuff,
not sayin' I'm smarter;
But you can skip posts I make,
is that so much harder?

I want to thank you for letting me post my blitz, again;
I want to thank you for letting me post my blitz, again!
Last edited by StratPlayer on Thu May 16, 2013 6:12 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Thu May 16, 2013 6:06 pm UTC

jjdavidson wrote:Steganographic-Sig!

This has bothered me for a while... You do realize that something that advertizes itself as steganographic, by definition isn't; right?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jetpac » Thu May 16, 2013 6:08 pm UTC

StratPlayer wrote:Still doing the ketchup blitz, but it's a nanoblitz now...

But as I was doing this, I was thinking about our recurring discussions about blitzers and ketchupers and past-posting, and I had a moment of inspiration. I thought of an old song I'd referenced before, but had not properly filked. So, in preparation for what will eventually become a ketchup post of my own at some point, I'd like to offer this:

"Thank You for Letting Me Post My Blitz"
(Based on "Thank You Falettinme Be Mice Elf Agin" by Sly and the Family Stone

Spoiler:
Looking at the newpix;
it's an older one.
Progress, I'm making;
but nowhere near done.
Current, I'm chasing;
I don't dare to stop.
Thoughts, I've a mess of,
starting from the top:

I want to thank you for letting me post my blitz, again;
I want to thank you for letting me post my blitz, again!

Trying to follow,
pages off the pace.
'Tip-tap-typy,' typin',
always out of place.
I have missed the parties,
and jokes along the way;
Many things are on m mind,
I will try to say...

I want to thank you for letting me post my blitz, again;
I want to thank you for letting me post my blitz, again!

Spoiler'd my signpost;
hope that isn't wrong.
Don't want any people
to miss the new ONG.
Maybe I'm too sappy,
don't wanna make you cry,
but I'm still thinking,
my words are worth a try...

I want to thank you for letting me post my blitz, again.
Different posts for different folks, yeah!
I want to thank you for letting me post my blitz, again!

Flamin' words of peoples thoughts, burnin' into view
Maybe folks are missin' much -- my posts are thoughts, too.

Yes, I'm quoting old stuff,
not sayin' I'm smarter;
But you can skip posts I make,
is that so much harder?

I want to thank you for letting me post my blitz, again;
I want to thank you for letting me post my blitz, again!

Nice job once again! The title of the original has been a favorite of mine for a while (although I think I was actually made aware of the song through a Marcus Miller cover instead of the original)

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k.bookbinder
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby k.bookbinder » Thu May 16, 2013 6:16 pm UTC

jetpac wrote:bookbinder, you might want to try to fix that post one more time


I was able to exorcise the spoiler block demon. Sorry about that. :oops: This must be what happens to those who harbor too much heretical doubt.

*picks up after dinner mints and stale gold fish*
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby kryton » Thu May 16, 2013 6:23 pm UTC

Accidental Time Tourist Journal
Coordinates: top of page 469 of 638

I see conflicting SIGS asking for BlitzQuesters Posts to be spoilered in entirety, and others that say they want to see/hear from the BlitzQuesters. I'm not sure what to do. Following the path of the great one herself, i would only spoiler or snip large/long quotes. I don't want to incite a flame war by not spoilering the entire post, but then what is the point of the post if it is? Only one thing to do...

Hail Blitzgirl and Hail buffygirl, most experienced among us, wise are you and even in judgement, inspiration to us all. I seek your intervention and mediation, that you may divine a just and reasonable resolution to this fork in the road before for us, meek and humble followers in your footsteps, wearers of your hats.


and a page later one answer was revealed, set here in time, answering the question before it was asked, but revealed only after asked...
BuffyGirl wrote:BLITZERS & VYTRON in particular: Take Heart. We can't please all of the people all of the time, and different folks have different styles and personalities and likes and dislikes in terms of what is deemed "readable." Just be yourself, and trust that you are appreciated. :)


My favorite:
Goggalor wrote:Bag to the Future


Spoiler:
Valarya wrote:
kryton wrote:
Valarya wrote:i'm assuming I became the recipient of this great gift for not only understanding the Buffyest Hat Rules, but by avenging your most holiness creations of Time's time buffiness? *gushes* xD Here's hoping I can still be Apex Bishop of the EUTws whilst wearing a BuffyHat™!

BuffyHats are just too cool (like bow ties) to not be universally accepted everywhere (like the American Express card).

Grātias oh holiest of Space Popes! *drops a miniature version of my hat in to the collection plate for ample recompense*

De nada neat this miniature hat in the collection plate will fit my teddy bear
1298 and counting

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Thu May 16, 2013 6:24 pm UTC

Time for another episode of “Aww, we were so cute when we were young...”

My second post, at newpix 95:
mscha wrote:Looks like things are coming to an end. I'd now guess that there will be only one more update at 11:30 PM EDT, and after that, it's over and comic 1191 is posted.

Almost right... :oops:

My fifth post, at newpix 112:
mscha wrote:I wonder how long before the first obsessive fan posts a live-action reenactment of xkcd#1190 on Youtube...

That was still more or less feasible back then. But by now? I'd like to see someone try, but I don't see it happening.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Montov » Thu May 16, 2013 6:25 pm UTC

Kieryn wrote:
jjjdavidson wrote:GettONG up...
Image

I gotta bad feelin' about this. Something will not be right with the river.


I think the river is dry. It will add to the confusion of the characters in the comic, which we have named Cueball and Megan. We, as an audience, will join them in said confusion. Hilarity ensues.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ttscp » Thu May 16, 2013 6:26 pm UTC

Sciscitor wrote:Cool new art today: The Raven, Hotel California, insightful story analyses... awesome, really awesome!

I am working on a project of my own, trying to figure out information content of postings. But folks, being a lowly amateur, I am gonna need help with this from someone of the professional data wranglers on here:
To measure added informational content I compress the whole OTT up to the posting before the one that is to be analyzed. Then I compress the whole OTT including the posting that is to be analyzed. (Both times using the bzip2 algorithm on highest.) Then I subtract the size of the first from the one of the second compression output.
By eyeballing the first 200 results I thought that this would be quite right. As expected the added information value gets smaller over time and (very roughly) correlates with the length of the posting. But after about 1000 postings or so something strange happens: Some postings (especially short ones) suddenly have negative information content! The compressed size including them is actually smaller than the one excluding them. I am a bit baffled. My only guess would be some artefact of the inner workings of the bzip2 library... any ideas?


Hmm. Adding another post gives the compression algorithm more to work with, and it could find a different (better) way to compress the earlier stuff?

I'm trying to construct a simple example but the Outside calls with a call that I must be on.
Always act to increase the survival chances of the largest group you are a part of.

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Kieryn
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Thu May 16, 2013 6:34 pm UTC

Montov wrote:
Kieryn wrote:
jjjdavidson wrote:GettONG up...
Image

I gotta bad feelin' about this. Something will not be right with the river.


I think the river is dry. It will add to the confusion of the characters in the comic, which we have named Cueball and Megan. We, as an audience, will join them in said confusion. Hilarity ensues.


Sounds very reasonable.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ergman » Thu May 16, 2013 6:38 pm UTC

Man, so much great parody lately, utterly trumping my pre-coma nonsense verse about molpy momes etc.
And was cueball pulling a reverse Adam-Eve a few newpixies ago?
I made my avatar, Buffygirl hatted it, Yappo smileyed it and ggh taroted it!
I've changed, witnessing this thing so beautiful

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby k.bookbinder » Thu May 16, 2013 6:41 pm UTC

I must away :cry: I am certain I will require a very large dose of ketchup upon my return. Keep the faith, all. And always, wait for it.

Aw I fort it...
Aw I fort it...
Aw I fort it...
Aw I fort it...
Aw I fort it...

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ttscp » Thu May 16, 2013 6:42 pm UTC

ttscp wrote:Hmm. Adding another post gives the compression algorithm more to work with, and it could find a different (better) way to compress the earlier stuff?


Very simple example:

aaaabbbbaaaabb -> 4a4b4a2b -> 8
aaaabbbbaaaabbbb -> 2(4a4b) -> 7

I don't think compression algorithms can parenthesize like that, but it shows the principle.

Is it okay to quote yourself? I'm just trying to provide context.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Thu May 16, 2013 6:46 pm UTC

Sciscitor wrote:Cool new art today: The Raven, Hotel California, insightful story analyses... awesome, really awesome!

I am working on a project of my own, trying to figure out information content of postings. But folks, being a lowly amateur, I am gonna need help with this from someone of the professional data wranglers on here:
To measure added informational content I compress the whole OTT up to the posting before the one that is to be analyzed. Then I compress the whole OTT including the posting that is to be analyzed. (Both times using the bzip2 algorithm on highest.) Then I subtract the size of the first from the one of the second compression output.
By eyeballing the first 200 results I thought that this would be quite right. As expected the added information value gets smaller over time and (very roughly) correlates with the length of the posting. But after about 1000 postings or so something strange happens: Some postings (especially short ones) suddenly have negative information content! The compressed size including them is actually smaller than the one excluding them. I am a bit baffled. My only guess would be some artefact of the inner workings of the bzip2 library... any ideas?


Two problems here is that bzip2 is far from the 100% ideal perfect information compression algorithm, and it's therefore inconsistent.

This means the amount of compression it applies varies significantly depending on the data. New data added to an existing set can often provide bzip2 (or any other mechanism) with a means to compress further.

Also, adding bits to a sequence can paradoxically sometimes reduce the total amount of information.

Example: Algorthim that maps any repeated sequence of zeros and ones to the sequence plus the number of repetitions in parenthesis.
Eg: 10100101101001 might compress to 10(2) 01(2) 10(2) 01 (17 chars long)
1010010110100101 compresses to 10100101(2) (11 chars long)

Edit: Ninja'd example by ttscp
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jetpac » Thu May 16, 2013 6:54 pm UTC

Kieryn wrote:
Sciscitor wrote:Cool new art today: The Raven, Hotel California, insightful story analyses... awesome, really awesome!

I am working on a project of my own, trying to figure out information content of postings. But folks, being a lowly amateur, I am gonna need help with this from someone of the professional data wranglers on here:
To measure added informational content I compress the whole OTT up to the posting before the one that is to be analyzed. Then I compress the whole OTT including the posting that is to be analyzed. (Both times using the bzip2 algorithm on highest.) Then I subtract the size of the first from the one of the second compression output.
By eyeballing the first 200 results I thought that this would be quite right. As expected the added information value gets smaller over time and (very roughly) correlates with the length of the posting. But after about 1000 postings or so something strange happens: Some postings (especially short ones) suddenly have negative information content! The compressed size including them is actually smaller than the one excluding them. I am a bit baffled. My only guess would be some artefact of the inner workings of the bzip2 library... any ideas?


Two problems here is that bzip2 is far from the 100% ideal perfect information compression algorithm, and it's therefore inconsistent.

This means the amount of compression it applies varies significantly depending on the data. New data added to an existing set can often provide bzip2 (or any other mechanism) with a means to compress further.

Also, adding bits to a sequence can paradoxically sometimes reduce the total amount of information.

Example: Algorthim that maps any repeated sequence of zeros and ones to the sequence plus the number of repetitions in parenthesis.
Eg: 10100101101001 might compress to 10(2) 01(2) 10(2) 01 (17 chars long)
1010010110100101 compresses to 10100101(2) (11 chars long)

Edit: Ninja'd example by ttscp

Interesting that your first "compressed" example is actually longer than the "uncompressed" source sequence.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Thu May 16, 2013 6:54 pm UTC

Sciscitor: For your project I reccommend for each new post, calculate a fuzzy (0-1) based on the levenshtein distance from it and all prior posts, such that if comes in with a 1, it is 100% dissimilar from all prior posts and is therefore totally new information. If it's a zero, then it's nothing new.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Dracomax » Thu May 16, 2013 6:55 pm UTC

jetpac wrote:
Kieryn wrote:
Sciscitor wrote:Cool new art today: The Raven, Hotel California, insightful story analyses... awesome, really awesome!

I am working on a project of my own, trying to figure out information content of postings. But folks, being a lowly amateur, I am gonna need help with this from someone of the professional data wranglers on here:
To measure added informational content I compress the whole OTT up to the posting before the one that is to be analyzed. Then I compress the whole OTT including the posting that is to be analyzed. (Both times using the bzip2 algorithm on highest.) Then I subtract the size of the first from the one of the second compression output.
By eyeballing the first 200 results I thought that this would be quite right. As expected the added information value gets smaller over time and (very roughly) correlates with the length of the posting. But after about 1000 postings or so something strange happens: Some postings (especially short ones) suddenly have negative information content! The compressed size including them is actually smaller than the one excluding them. I am a bit baffled. My only guess would be some artefact of the inner workings of the bzip2 library... any ideas?


Two problems here is that bzip2 is far from the 100% ideal perfect information compression algorithm, and it's therefore inconsistent.

This means the amount of compression it applies varies significantly depending on the data. New data added to an existing set can often provide bzip2 (or any other mechanism) with a means to compress further.

Also, adding bits to a sequence can paradoxically sometimes reduce the total amount of information.

Example: Algorthim that maps any repeated sequence of zeros and ones to the sequence plus the number of repetitions in parenthesis.
Eg: 10100101101001 might compress to 10(2) 01(2) 10(2) 01 (17 chars long)
1010010110100101 compresses to 10100101(2) (11 chars long)

Edit: Ninja'd example by ttscp

Interesting that your first "compressed" example is actually longer than the "uncompressed" source sequence.

Okay, if someone creates a compressed version of the OTT that's longer than the OTT, while not adding any information, junk or otherwise, that would be impressive.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Thu May 16, 2013 6:56 pm UTC

jetpac wrote:
Kieryn wrote:
Sciscitor wrote:Cool new art today: The Raven, Hotel California, insightful story analyses... awesome, really awesome!

I am working on a project of my own, trying to figure out information content of postings. But folks, being a lowly amateur, I am gonna need help with this from someone of the professional data wranglers on here:
To measure added informational content I compress the whole OTT up to the posting before the one that is to be analyzed. Then I compress the whole OTT including the posting that is to be analyzed. (Both times using the bzip2 algorithm on highest.) Then I subtract the size of the first from the one of the second compression output.
By eyeballing the first 200 results I thought that this would be quite right. As expected the added information value gets smaller over time and (very roughly) correlates with the length of the posting. But after about 1000 postings or so something strange happens: Some postings (especially short ones) suddenly have negative information content! The compressed size including them is actually smaller than the one excluding them. I am a bit baffled. My only guess would be some artefact of the inner workings of the bzip2 library... any ideas?


Two problems here is that bzip2 is far from the 100% ideal perfect information compression algorithm, and it's therefore inconsistent.

This means the amount of compression it applies varies significantly depending on the data. New data added to an existing set can often provide bzip2 (or any other mechanism) with a means to compress further.

Also, adding bits to a sequence can paradoxically sometimes reduce the total amount of information.

Example: Algorthim that maps any repeated sequence of zeros and ones to the sequence plus the number of repetitions in parenthesis.
Eg: 10100101101001 might compress to 10(2) 01(2) 10(2) 01 (17 chars long)
1010010110100101 compresses to 10100101(2) (11 chars long)

Edit: Ninja'd example by ttscp

Interesting that your first "compressed" example is actually longer than the "uncompressed" source sequence.


Yeah, it's a terrible algorithm. Especially seeing as it's representing what could be bits inside of entire chars. It was just for example only
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Thu May 16, 2013 6:59 pm UTC

Dracomax wrote:
jetpac wrote:
Kieryn wrote:
Sciscitor wrote:Cool new art today: The Raven, Hotel California, insightful story analyses... awesome, really awesome!

I am working on a project of my own, trying to figure out information content of postings. But folks, being a lowly amateur, I am gonna need help with this from someone of the professional data wranglers on here:
To measure added informational content I compress the whole OTT up to the posting before the one that is to be analyzed. Then I compress the whole OTT including the posting that is to be analyzed. (Both times using the bzip2 algorithm on highest.) Then I subtract the size of the first from the one of the second compression output.
By eyeballing the first 200 results I thought that this would be quite right. As expected the added information value gets smaller over time and (very roughly) correlates with the length of the posting. But after about 1000 postings or so something strange happens: Some postings (especially short ones) suddenly have negative information content! The compressed size including them is actually smaller than the one excluding them. I am a bit baffled. My only guess would be some artefact of the inner workings of the bzip2 library... any ideas?


Two problems here is that bzip2 is far from the 100% ideal perfect information compression algorithm, and it's therefore inconsistent.

This means the amount of compression it applies varies significantly depending on the data. New data added to an existing set can often provide bzip2 (or any other mechanism) with a means to compress further.

Also, adding bits to a sequence can paradoxically sometimes reduce the total amount of information.

Example: Algorthim that maps any repeated sequence of zeros and ones to the sequence plus the number of repetitions in parenthesis.
Eg: 10100101101001 might compress to 10(2) 01(2) 10(2) 01 (17 chars long)
1010010110100101 compresses to 10100101(2) (11 chars long)

Edit: Ninja'd example by ttscp

Interesting that your first "compressed" example is actually longer than the "uncompressed" source sequence.

Okay, if someone creates a compressed version of the OTT that's longer than the OTT, while not adding any information, junk or otherwise, that would be impressive.


Just about all compression algorithms are optimized for a specific type of data. Here's a particularly terrible one that is optimized only for the string 'molpy'

MolpyCompress(T) = IF T = 'molpy' RETURN '1' ELSE RETURN '0' + T
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Thu May 16, 2013 7:01 pm UTC

Hey Ho, Let's GONG...
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Edit: still no Molpy activity. Probably compressed into a single bit.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HES » Thu May 16, 2013 7:01 pm UTC

I know nothing about data compression, so on that, I will get ninjad and go do some work
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ttscp » Thu May 16, 2013 7:04 pm UTC

Kieryn wrote:
jetpac wrote:
Kieryn wrote:
Sciscitor wrote:Cool new art today: The Raven, Hotel California, insightful story analyses... awesome, really awesome!

I am working on a project of my own, trying to figure out information content of postings. But folks, being a lowly amateur, I am gonna need help with this from someone of the professional data wranglers on here:
To measure added informational content I compress the whole OTT up to the posting before the one that is to be analyzed. Then I compress the whole OTT including the posting that is to be analyzed. (Both times using the bzip2 algorithm on highest.) Then I subtract the size of the first from the one of the second compression output.
By eyeballing the first 200 results I thought that this would be quite right. As expected the added information value gets smaller over time and (very roughly) correlates with the length of the posting. But after about 1000 postings or so something strange happens: Some postings (especially short ones) suddenly have negative information content! The compressed size including them is actually smaller than the one excluding them. I am a bit baffled. My only guess would be some artefact of the inner workings of the bzip2 library... any ideas?


Two problems here is that bzip2 is far from the 100% ideal perfect information compression algorithm, and it's therefore inconsistent.

This means the amount of compression it applies varies significantly depending on the data. New data added to an existing set can often provide bzip2 (or any other mechanism) with a means to compress further.

Also, adding bits to a sequence can paradoxically sometimes reduce the total amount of information.

Example: Algorthim that maps any repeated sequence of zeros and ones to the sequence plus the number of repetitions in parenthesis.
Eg: 10100101101001 might compress to 10(2) 01(2) 10(2) 01 (17 chars long)
1010010110100101 compresses to 10100101(2) (11 chars long)

Edit: Ninja'd example by ttscp

Interesting that your first "compressed" example is actually longer than the "uncompressed" source sequence.


Yeah, it's a terrible algorithm. Especially seeing as it's representing what could be bits inside of entire chars. It was just for example only

What Scisitor seems to be looking for is information content. One measure of that is entropy (as noted in the Twitter What If, I think) and zip compression was used by our GLR himself as a first cut approximation of the entropy/information content.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Thu May 16, 2013 7:08 pm UTC

ttscp wrote:
Spoiler:
Kieryn wrote:
jetpac wrote:
Kieryn wrote:
Sciscitor wrote:Cool new art today: The Raven, Hotel California, insightful story analyses... awesome, really awesome!

I am working on a project of my own, trying to figure out information content of postings. But folks, being a lowly amateur, I am gonna need help with this from someone of the professional data wranglers on here:
To measure added informational content I compress the whole OTT up to the posting before the one that is to be analyzed. Then I compress the whole OTT including the posting that is to be analyzed. (Both times using the bzip2 algorithm on highest.) Then I subtract the size of the first from the one of the second compression output.
By eyeballing the first 200 results I thought that this would be quite right. As expected the added information value gets smaller over time and (very roughly) correlates with the length of the posting. But after about 1000 postings or so something strange happens: Some postings (especially short ones) suddenly have negative information content! The compressed size including them is actually smaller than the one excluding them. I am a bit baffled. My only guess would be some artefact of the inner workings of the bzip2 library... any ideas?


Two problems here is that bzip2 is far from the 100% ideal perfect information compression algorithm, and it's therefore inconsistent.

This means the amount of compression it applies varies significantly depending on the data. New data added to an existing set can often provide bzip2 (or any other mechanism) with a means to compress further.

Also, adding bits to a sequence can paradoxically sometimes reduce the total amount of information.

Example: Algorthim that maps any repeated sequence of zeros and ones to the sequence plus the number of repetitions in parenthesis.
Eg: 10100101101001 might compress to 10(2) 01(2) 10(2) 01 (17 chars long)
1010010110100101 compresses to 10100101(2) (11 chars long)

Edit: Ninja'd example by ttscp

Interesting that your first "compressed" example is actually longer than the "uncompressed" source sequence.


Yeah, it's a terrible algorithm. Especially seeing as it's representing what could be bits inside of entire chars. It was just for example only

What Scisitor seems to be looking for is information content. One measure of that is entropy (as noted in the Twitter What If, I think) and zip compression was used by our GLR himself as a first cut approximation of the entropy/information content.

[hint subtle="0"]One way to increase the information content of the OTT, at least as observed by us watchers, is to either snip or spoiler part of the ever increasing thread of messages you're quoting.[/hint]
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby lmjb1964 » Thu May 16, 2013 7:08 pm UTC

Rule110 wrote:
yappobiscuits wrote:… but once the OTT sucks you in, there's no getting out…


Indeed.

The Alt-Text

Spoiler:
Once upon a morning cheery, while I pondered, slightly bleary
Over many a new webcomic full of dreary trendy wit,
Suddenly with brief foreboding I beheld an image loading -
'T'was a small JPEG decoding on my panel bit by bit.
Just a monochrome depiction taking shape there bit by bit.
I thought, 'What's the point of it?'

For the frame projected merely two figures arranged austerely,
Seated rather cavalierly on some lonesome barren spit.
Eagerly I sought for meaning in their placid restful leaning,
Yet that earnest mental gleaning explicated not a whit; -
''Tis a caption missing,' said I, comprehending not a whit,
'Should explain wherefore they sit.'

Not inclined to whine or curse it, I intended to disperse it
But my mouse chanced to traverse it and up popped a tiny chit:
An alt-text, I saw, not fearing to expect the purpose clearing
By the letters there appearing like a scroll of holy writ.
Rapt I read the words inscribed there, terrible as holy writ.
And they spelt out: 'Wait for it.'

Wait for it? I sat and pondered while my morbid fancies wandered
Into strange phantasmagoric places few ever admit.
What grim portent was it sending; was 'it' coming soon, or ending?
Some catastrophe impending, all our mortal lives forfeit?
Was the Judgment Day upon us, holding every soul forfeit?
Quoth the alt-text: 'Wait for it.'

Anon my mania deflated and it seemed my fears abated.
(None of us knows what is fated, and to fate we all submit.)
Then my gaze suddenly lifted, for like desert sands that drifted,
The comic page had shifted, though no refresh I'd transmit.
Lo! The figures changed position, with no page refresh transmit.
Quoth the alt-text: 'Wait for it.'

Castles, rivers, swimming, scaffold, rising sea: all left me baffled,
As pix flowed in slow succession like a garment being knit.
Though my kenning should be gaining with each frame, 'twere no explaining
Every question still remaining: 'What's it mean, how does it fit?
Where's it going, what's the point, who are these folks, how's it all fit?'
Quoth the alt-text: 'Wait for it.'

No surcease from my reflecting stopped the questions interjecting:
'Is the artist now expecting? Or is it his family's split?
Is it all 'bout global warming? Is it cancer lesions swarming?
I pray you, be more informing! All these mysteries remit.
For my peace of mind and sanity, the mysteries remit.'
Quoth the alt-text: 'Wait for it.'

'Your coyness is most unpleasing. I won't wait,' I shouted, wheezing -
'All these pictures are just teasing, no intention to commit.
Black stick figure and sand castle, images so trite and facile
They're not worth near this much hassle. Leave my monitor unlit.
Take thy comic off my browser; leave my monitor unlit!'
Quoth the alt-text: 'Wait for it.'

And the alt-text, ne'er updating, still is waiting, still is waiting
As each new frame looms, relating tick by tick the drawn-out skit.
I can but, through days ensuing, ponder on my soul's undoing,
The one hope for my renewing being that I somehow quit
Whilst the alt-text whispers softly that I'm doomed never to quit.
I can only... wait for it.


Damn, there are some talented people on this thread. Nicely done! I need a clapping smiley. I'm sure BlitzGirl has one...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Thu May 16, 2013 7:09 pm UTC

lmjb1964 wrote:Damn, there are some talented people on this thread. Nicely done! I need a clapping smiley. I'm sure BlitzGirl has one...

I'm sure she has, and it'll be way better than mine. But in the meantime: Image
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Thu May 16, 2013 7:21 pm UTC

Clapping smileys... (edits to remove some dead ones)
ImageImageImageImage ImageImageImage

On the creative front:
Spoiler:
Rule110 wrote:It was an easy decision to keep the rhyme scheme intact, which meant using "it" rhymes in every stanza, which pretty much ruled out any direct parodic re-use of Poe's verses, which of course use "ore" rhymes in each stanza. Unfortunately, the available "it" rhymes are generally less evocative, but one makes do. (I would have loved to have "shore" "floor" "before" "implore" etc. in my toolbox; instead, I had to resist the urge to use "git.") Oh yeah, and it meant unfortunately writing out poor Lenore. (An early attempt to cast the time-lost BlitzGirl in Lenore's place went nowhere, and wouldn't have made sense anyhow with BlitzGirl no longer time-lost, and the whole thing ending up focused on the comic rather than the thread. And to really take Lenore's place in the rhyme scheme I'd have had to rename her GirlBlit or something, which I'm sure violates the Geneva Convention.)

Yes, that would be in violation of Common Article ∞ regarding Temporally Suspect Rearrangement of a Knight Temporal.
But I'll let your idle speculation slide as it was done in the services of a spectacular Poe-m.

HES, I loved the song, especially:
HES wrote:So I called up the P-FAN,
"Please bring me newpix"
He said, "We haven't had a new ONG here since what outsiders call 'six'"

And StratPlayer, it's great to have a tune for all the blitzers out there! :D

On lack of coma:
Spoiler:
cellocgw wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:I'm Comaless in Tacoma, does that count?

Absolutely! You win a free pack of (real, not pixellate) local cheese the next time you visit the Birthplace of Calvin Coolidge. Just tell me when you'll be there :)

Yay! Cheese! But it might take me a while to get there...it would be like reenacting Cuegan's journey era while molpy-sized...

mscha wrote:You can say that again! I think you've been posting continuously for multiple icositetranewpix.
You may doubt the humanity of HAL9000, but I'm beginning to wonder if you're not a posting computer. (If so, have you met newpixbot? I think the two of you might get along. 8-) )

Not so much computerish, just no fixed Outside schedule. Newpixbot is cute but it doesn't seem like he's much of a conversationalist (please don't say anything to him, he works so hard to post the newpix)...


On berrybushes:
Spoiler:
k.bookbinder wrote:'Tis berries he picked. How nice. Had berries been accurately predicted? I know there was some speculation about picking berries. I do hope that he had the presence of mind to taste them first, himself. Woe be unto us all should Megan fall ill.

Yep, I remember this one because I believe I brought it up:
BlitzGirl, newpage 630 wrote:Could be that Cueball is molesting a berry bush in order to find food.


On sudoku:
mathrec wrote:
Spoiler:
mscha wrote:
mathrec wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:I must have a serious Sudoku addiction... I did the puzzle anyway... Even though it wasn't a real puzzle......help...
How to tell if you need help with your sudoku addiction

Speaking of Sudoku additions: I hate you.
Since I discovered your Sudoku of the Day, I'm losing what valuable little time I have left after OTT, coma and Outside responsibilities (yes, those are in descending order of priority) to them.
12 May: easy to moderate, sure... I spent hours solving that one...
OK. That's not fair on my part. About four years ago I programmed my server to generate a puzzle once per day. Remember, there will always be more. You don't have to solve them.

*gasp* No! Solve all Sudoku! Image
As punishment, you must complete the puzzle shown in this smiley:

Image
(it's actually quite easy, but apparently smileys are not very good at sudoku)


we now return you to your regularly scheduled coma
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby lmjb1964 » Thu May 16, 2013 7:23 pm UTC

HES wrote:
mikro2nd wrote:(aside: Like the Hotel California...)


"Hotel California"
"Randall's One True Comic"

Spoiler:
Internet on a dark night, see cool things that are there
Warm smell of a coffee1, rising up through the air
Coming in through the curtains, I saw a shimmering light
My head grew heavy and my sight grew dim
I hadn't stopped for the night!
There I sat, tired at my desk;
I hadn't comaed well;
And I was thinking to myself,
"This could be Heaven or this could be Hell"
Then I sipped on my coffee1, refreshed the demons away,
There were voices on the One True Thread,
I thought I heard them say...

Welcome to Randall's One True Comic
Such a lovely place (Such a lovely place)
Such a lovely pace
Plenty of Time in Randall's One True Comic
Any time of year (Any time of year)
You can find it here

My mind is definitely twisted, wondering "what if it ends"
I got a lot of pretty, pretty hats, I call friends
We don't want it to be like, the horror that was LOST.
Or the ones who cancelled firefly, turning fire to frost!

So I called up the P-FAN,
"Please bring me newpix"
He said, "We haven't had a new ONG here since what outsiders call 'six'"
And still those voices are calling from far away,
Keep you up in the middle of the night
Just to hear them say...

Welcome to Randall's One True Comic
Such a lovely place (Such a lovely place)
Such a lovely pace
We're livin' it up for Randall's One True Comic
Making awesome things (making awesome things)
like dinosaurs with wings!

On this needle-pulled thing,
[your name]'s really nice,
But [s]he said "We are all just prisoners here, of our own device"
And in the inquisition,
They gathered for the feast
They pelt it with their M&M's,
But they just can't kill the beast

Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the outsider I was before
"Relax," said the night bots,
"We are programmed to receive.
You can log-out any time you like,
But you can never leave!"



More brilliance! My favorite line:
"And in the inquisition,
They gathered for the feast
They pelt it with their M&M's,
But they just can't kill the beast"

And by beast, I assume you mean molpy.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ucim » Thu May 16, 2013 7:27 pm UTC

mscha wrote:One way to increase the information content of the OTT, at least as observed by us watchers, is to either snip or spoiler part of the ever increasing thread of messages you're quoting.
Although that is a good application of editing or a spoiler tag, it is not the only one, and therefore can't be (trivially) used in an information detection algorithm.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ttscp » Thu May 16, 2013 7:31 pm UTC

mscha wrote:[hint subtle="0"]One way to increase the information content of the OTT, at least as observed by us watchers, is to either snip or spoiler part of the ever increasing thread of messages you're quoting.[/hint]
Image


Point taken, thanks.

Of course that means I have to resist the temptation to to respond to every post not deeply considering the length versus the probability I'm pissing someone off (which decision can take me a long long time, because the varied requirements and desires of the people and newpixbots in this thread have exceeded the information processing capabilities of my short term memory so I have to do the calculation with the aid of scratch pad and so on and so on, blather, blather, yada yada, bboz dr yndn)

:D
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