1190: "Time"

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higgs-boson
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby higgs-boson » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:27 am UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:
higgs-boson wrote:
xpatiate wrote:Finally we have a firm species identification! It's a "little prickly".

This applies to approx. 100% of humanoid females, too.

Remove the "ly" in the first quote and the "fe" in the second and I find this conversation a lot funnier. Image

You don't have to laugh about that. It's a very sensitive subject!


So the difference between man and woman is a mere "ly".
So much for this Mars-&-Venus gibberish.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby rvloon » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:28 am UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:Perhaps GLR is trying to replicate the cicada effect by driving us all crazy with these chirpy newpix.
To late.....


No no, that should be:

To Time, to Time, nostrovia!
Nostrovia to the Waiters of Time!
Here is to the newpixbot,
Here is to the ONG-my-GOD!

Drink, nostrovia, to Time!

To Time, to Time nostrovia
Nostrovia to all the Waiters of Time!

Cherish your Buffyhats
Ddactyl your Waiting brats

Drink, nostrovia, to Time!

GLR would like us to be waitful
Even when our hearts lie panting on the floor

How much more can we be waitful
When there's really some-it
To be waitful for

To Time, to Time, nostrovia!

To Molpy's, to Chirpies.
To Time,

It gives you something to think about
Something to drink about

Drink, nostrovia to Time!

May all your waiting be pleasantly
May you wait quite incessantly

Drink, nostrovia to Time!

...

Ronald
Spoiler:
I followed Time until The End and I cannot even buy a chirping T-shirt.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cellocgw » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:31 am UTC

speising wrote:the hedgehog can never be bothered at all!


If it's a hedgemolpy, can a nice musical interlude by molpyBrahms be far behind?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby cellocgw » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:34 am UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:
spamjam wrote:
Neil_Boekend wrote:
tinosoph wrote:
Neil_Boekend wrote:
tinosoph wrote:Cueball is gonna hurt himself with all that spikes

EDIT: As pope of NewPage 836 I decree every poster and lurker of the One True Thread shall do 10 sit-ups today. And to continue the tradition of one of my predecessors, I order you all to be happy for this NewPage (in memoriam Neil_Boekend)

I'm not dead.
I don't want to go on the cart.

Oh, don't be such a baby!

I feel fine.

You're not fooling anyone, you know.

I feel happy. I feel happy.

And, pretty, and witty, and gay? Do you pity any TimeWaiter who isn't you this newpage?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby edo » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:35 am UTC

higgs-boson wrote:
don't add waterHowever 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 (pick the right one) the sea is, this is not a sea urchin
.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby higgs-boson » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:36 am UTC

cellocgw wrote:
speising wrote:the hedgehog can never be bothered at all!


If it's a hedgemolpy, can a nice musical interlude by molpyBrahms be far behind?


... which is, by the way, not quite true. There are several known enemies to the hedgehog:

  • Large Owls (killing hedgehogs with big big claws)
  • Badgers (pointy snouted ball-eater able to stick its pointy snout in the gap)
  • Cars (tricky cyborg hunting hedgehogs for fun, if given the opportunity)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby xpatiate » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:39 am UTC

higgs-boson wrote:
xpatiate wrote:Finally we have a firm species identification! It's a "little prickly".

This applies to approx. 100% of humanoid females, too.


Not necessarily - some of us have evolved alternative defence mechanisms. Personally, I dropped the prickles a while ago and now just charge directly at my enemies, squeaking ferociously.

In case my lame joke wasn't clear, I was suggesting Cueball was using the term "little prickly" in an adjective-nouny kind of way. As opposed to more of an adverb-adjectivey type thing. Like a ... ok, never mind.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby AnotherKevin » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:40 am UTC

speising wrote:the hedgehog can never be bothered at all!


I therefore believe the conclusion
Is incontrovertibly shown:
Comparative safety on shipboard
Is enjoyed by the hedgehog alone.

(Yes, I know the words to that song...)
All the rivers run into the sea, yet the sea is not full.
Unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Swein » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:46 am UTC

xpatiate wrote:
higgs-boson wrote:
xpatiate wrote:Finally we have a firm species identification! It's a "little prickly".

This applies to approx. 100% of humanoid females, too.


Not necessarily - some of us have evolved alternative defence mechanisms. Personally, I dropped the prickles a while ago and now just charge directly at my enemies, squeaking ferociously.

:shock: :mrgreen:
xpatiate wrote:In case my lame joke wasn't clear, I was suggesting Cueball was using the term "little prickly" in an adjective-nouny kind of way. As opposed to more of an adverb-adjectivey type thing. Like a ... ok, never mind.

Quite clear my dear! So I suggest it is hereby known as a Pricklymolp. We can drop the "little" until cuegan encounters the much rarer Humongous Prickle
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Re: 1190: "Time" and Math

Postby charlie_grumbles » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:48 am UTC

Ray Kremer wrote:I suppose math is a bit like time. Oh, we base the year, month, and day on the movement of our planet and moon, but hours, minutes, and seconds are arbitrary divisions. Leave Earth and even the day and year are arbitrary. Arbitrary time measurements don't mean anything to anything except people. Yet time and the passage of time is inherent in all things, the very fabric of the universe.

So far, so good. Agreed.
Ray Kremer, then wrote:Nature doesn't care about math, even though it functions in accordance with a great many mathematical principles. Math is just inherent in the system without anything paying it any attention. Making math into a thing that is codified with rules and theorems and number trickses, that's something people do.


I don't think mathematicians think like that. Mathematics isn't (in our view) inherent in anything except the human mind. We "see" order in the universe, but it is an order imposed by how we think of it, not, precisely speaking, how it is.

Math is "pure mind stuff" (I think I'm quoting a badly remembered source here).

I'm pretty sure that physicists feel the same way. Physical theories aren't inherent in nature, but explanations of nature imposed by the way we choose to think. Both mathematicians and physicists build models of things and we have a bias for simple models (Occam's Razor). So, we say the earth follows an elliptical path around the sun, but that is far from accurate. It is just an approximation. The reality is that there is lots of wobble.

So, I think you have the understanding of the relationship between math and the universe just backwards; not an uncommon view. It isn't that there is math in the universe. It is that, in math (and somewhat differently in physics) we build models that help us understand, in a simple way, the complexity of the universe. But the math is in us.

I think I'm on pretty solid ground above, so I'm going to speculate a bit here. I've gotten some push-back on the following in the past, and physics is not my main study. But I'll make the bold claim that Atoms don't "exist". Neither do quarks and muons and all the rest. Those are just explanations, thought up by smart people to try to explain the complexity of the small. They are a mental model from which we can predict phenomena pretty accurately (not exactly). The reality is more complex than the model. Physicists, however, speak of quarks as if they "exist", but I think that really what they mean is that there are some phenomena that are "well explained" by the idea of quarks.

So, in this view (my story, and I'm stickin' to it), the universe isn't "built up" from small things like quarks. It just IS. We use quarks as a way to get a simple (hmmm) way to think about that complexity. Neither does it embody mathematical principles. People think those up themselves. But math is also used to build "sensible" models (i.e. predictive models) of how it all hangs together.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Zorin_75 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:51 am UTC

higgs-boson wrote:
cellocgw wrote:
speising wrote:the hedgehog can never be bothered at all!


If it's a hedgemolpy, can a nice musical interlude by molpyBrahms be far behind?


... which is, by the way, not quite true. There are several known enemies to the hedgehog:

  • Large Owls (killing hedgehogs with big big claws)
  • Badgers (pointy snouted ball-eater able to stick its pointy snout in the gap)
  • Cars (tricky cyborg hunting hedgehogs for fun, if given the opportunity)


http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/song.html :wink:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mikro2nd » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:57 am UTC

rvloon wrote:No no, that should be:

To Time, to Time, nostrovia!
Spoiler:
Nostrovia to the Waiters of Time!
Here is to the newpixbot,
Here is to the ONG-my-GOD!

Drink, nostrovia, to Time!

To Time, to Time nostrovia
Nostrovia to all the Waiters of Time!

Cherish your Buffyhats
Ddactyl your Waiting brats

Drink, nostrovia, to Time!

GLR would like us to be waitful
Even when our hearts lie panting on the floor

How much more can we be waitful
When there's really some-it
To be waitful for

To Time, to Time, nostrovia!

To Molpy's, to Chirpies.
To Time,

It gives you something to think about
Something to drink about

Drink, nostrovia to Time!

May all your waiting be pleasantly
May you wait quite incessantly

Drink, nostrovia to Time!

...

Ronald

Excellenty done, sir! L'Chaim.
One world, one soul
Time pass, the river rolls

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Flotter » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:00 pm UTC

Does it biteONG?
Image

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:01 pm UTC

Ah. Wee molpy is familiar to at least one of them.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:12 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:
Neil_Boekend wrote:
spamjam wrote:
Neil_Boekend wrote:
tinosoph wrote:
Neil_Boekend wrote:
tinosoph wrote:Cueball is gonna hurt himself with all that spikes

EDIT: As pope of NewPage 836 I decree every poster and lurker of the One True Thread shall do 10 sit-ups today. And to continue the tradition of one of my predecessors, I order you all to be happy for this NewPage (in memoriam Neil_Boekend)

I'm not dead.
I don't want to go on the cart.

Oh, don't be such a baby!

I feel fine.

You're not fooling anyone, you know.

I feel happy. I feel happy.

And, pretty, and witty, and gay? Do you pity any TimeWaiter who isn't you this newpage?

Nope. I just wanted to prevent my death. Alas, this was not to be.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby k.bookbinder » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:17 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:
Neil_Boekend wrote:
Spoiler:
spamjam wrote:
Neil_Boekend wrote:
tinosoph wrote:
Neil_Boekend wrote:
tinosoph wrote:Cueball is gonna hurt himself with all that spikes

EDIT: As pope of NewPage 836 I decree every poster and lurker of the One True Thread shall do 10 sit-ups today. And to continue the tradition of one of my predecessors, I order you all to be happy for this NewPage (in memoriam Neil_Boekend)

I'm not dead.
I don't want to go on the cart.

Oh, don't be such a baby!

I feel fine.

You're not fooling anyone, you know.

I feel happy. I feel happy.

And, pretty, and witty, and gay? Do you pity any TimeWaiter who isn't you this newpage?


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Re: 1190: "Time" and Math

Postby SBN » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:19 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:
Ray Kremer wrote:I suppose math is a bit like time. Oh, we base the year, month, and day on the movement of our planet and moon, but hours, minutes, and seconds are arbitrary divisions. Leave Earth and even the day and year are arbitrary. Arbitrary time measurements don't mean anything to anything except people. Yet time and the passage of time is inherent in all things, the very fabric of the universe.

So far, so good. Agreed.

I've got some domesticated wolpies here that very much understand hours. I must arise each day at 6:00 am. Breakfast is to be served precisely at 8:30 am, and dinner exactly at 5:00 pm. Bedtime is 10:00 pm. Any deviations from these times are met with severe disapproval, and the occasional paw-smack. They do not appear to understand days of the week, though, so this schedule is adhered to even on the weekends. The humans in the household do not have anywhere near the regularity the dogs have. (Other than that enforced by the dogs.)
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Re: 1190: "Time" and Math

Postby charlie_grumbles » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:27 pm UTC

SBN wrote:
charlie_grumbles wrote:
Ray Kremer wrote:I suppose math is a bit like time. Oh, we base the year, month, and day on the movement of our planet and moon, but hours, minutes, and seconds are arbitrary divisions. Leave Earth and even the day and year are arbitrary. Arbitrary time measurements don't mean anything to anything except people. Yet time and the passage of time is inherent in all things, the very fabric of the universe.

So far, so good. Agreed.

I've got some domesticated wolpies here that very much understand hours. I must arise each day at 6:00 am. Breakfast is to be served precisely at 8:30 am, and dinner exactly at 5:00 pm. Bedtime is 10:00 pm. Any deviations from these times are met with severe disapproval, and the occasional paw-smack. They do not appear to understand days of the week, though, so this schedule is adhered to even on the weekends. The humans in the household do not have anywhere near the regularity the dogs have. (Other than that enforced by the dogs.)


Hmmm. So clocks and all the rest were invented to help humans better adhere to the laws imposed by dogs?

Interesting. Verrrry interesting.

I suppose the history is correct. We domesticate dogs. Dogs domesticate us. We invent ways to better measure time.
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Re: 1190: "Time" and Math

Postby Dracomax » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:28 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:
SBN wrote:
charlie_grumbles wrote:
Ray Kremer wrote:I suppose math is a bit like time. Oh, we base the year, month, and day on the movement of our planet and moon, but hours, minutes, and seconds are arbitrary divisions. Leave Earth and even the day and year are arbitrary. Arbitrary time measurements don't mean anything to anything except people. Yet time and the passage of time is inherent in all things, the very fabric of the universe.

So far, so good. Agreed.

I've got some domesticated wolpies here that very much understand hours. I must arise each day at 6:00 am. Breakfast is to be served precisely at 8:30 am, and dinner exactly at 5:00 pm. Bedtime is 10:00 pm. Any deviations from these times are met with severe disapproval, and the occasional paw-smack. They do not appear to understand days of the week, though, so this schedule is adhered to even on the weekends. The humans in the household do not have anywhere near the regularity the dogs have. (Other than that enforced by the dogs.)


Hmmm. So clocks and all the rest were invented to help humans better adhere to the laws imposed by dogs?

Interesting. Verrrry interesting.

I suppose the history is correct. We domesticate dogs. Dogs domesticate us. We invent ways to better measure time.

What, you thought the word that "dog" is an anagram to is a coincidence?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby k.bookbinder » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:31 pm UTC

SBN wrote:
charlie_grumbles wrote:
Ray Kremer wrote:I suppose math is a bit like time. Oh, we base the year, month, and day on the movement of our planet and moon, but hours, minutes, and seconds are arbitrary divisions. Leave Earth and even the day and year are arbitrary. Arbitrary time measurements don't mean anything to anything except people. Yet time and the passage of time is inherent in all things, the very fabric of the universe.

So far, so good. Agreed.

I've got some domesticated wolpies here that very much understand hours. I must arise each day at 6:00 am. Breakfast is to be served precisely at 8:30 am, and dinner exactly at 5:00 pm. Bedtime is 10:00 pm. Any deviations from these times are met with severe disapproval, and the occasional paw-smack. They do not appear to understand days of the week, though, so this schedule is adhered to even on the weekends. The humans in the household do not have anywhere near the regularity the dogs have. (Other than that enforced by the dogs.)


My meowlpies seem to understand time as well, though I am not sure how. They get off track during time changes (well, so do I), so instead of trying to get me up at 6:25 a.m., they were trying to get me up at 5:25 a.m. But then they seemed to figure it out when, despite their efforts, I refused to get up to feed them and they would not hear my alarm for another hour. By the way, their attempts to wake me up are consistently 10 to 5 minutes before my alarm goes off, so I know they are not basing their actions on my alarm. Also, it is a similar ritual at night. They start to gather around at 11:50 p.m. because they know that I will be feeding them at midnight. Again, during time changes, it takes them a week or two to adjust, but they do finally get it. Their schedule, like my own, revolves around specific hours of the day, and not just external cues that I may be providing.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby TimeLurker » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:41 pm UTC

Not sure if we are still claiming parts of the OTC, but I'm doing so anyway.

Dibs.png

Notice that I'm only laying claim to what is in Cueball's head. I'm not sure what that'll do for me, but it was fun anyway.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:50 pm UTC

Riff on
Dogs
I've never spent much time around dogs. I had a friend, though, who always kept an Irish Setter or two about the place to rearrange fragile items with their tails and hind quarters. I gather from my experience that they don't approve much of humans. Whenever I'd walk by their giant stuffed "lily-pads" one or both would raise an eyebrow disapprovingly.

Cats
I've usually kept a feline about my own place to keep the smaller critters molpies at bay. I found them to be very generous. If you have one that is free to go in and out on its own, you will often find a present in the morning, sometimes even in the bed. It is normally gall bladder shaped within a decorative pink/red circle, often enbelished with many small feathers. Very cunning.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Valarya » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:58 pm UTC

Flotter wrote:Does it biteONG?
Image

Valarya wrote:Prediction:
- Cueball says he's never seen one before (in which case he should have been a tad more hesitant around it)
- Megan talks to the molpy & tells it they won't hurt it.

I was sorta close... 8-)

I wish it were still a rocky molpyx, though. Those lil friends were ridiculously cute.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Swein » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:02 pm UTC

Prickly neat little ONG
Image
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:03 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:Riff on
Dogs
I've never spent much time around dogs. I had a friend, though, who always kept an Irish Setter or two about the place to rearrange fragile items with their tails and hind quarters. I gather from my experience that they don't approve much of humans. Whenever I'd walk by their giant stuffed "lily-pads" one or both would raise an eyebrow disapprovingly.


This can be caused by a great many factors. The most important being how the wolpy was treated as a pup. Not as in mistreated or such, but a wolpy that has played with people in the first 8 weeks has a lower chance of this.
My wolpies have always been glad to see people. More people mean more attention. Attention is life.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby rvloon » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:04 pm UTC

mscha wrote:
yappobiscuits wrote:Some forums, including the only other one I'm a regular on, <snip>

What??? Are you cheating on us‽‽‽


No, just foruming around. Waiting in parallel, most likely.

Ronald

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Spoiler:
I followed Time until The End and I cannot even buy a chirping T-shirt.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby TimeLurker » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:07 pm UTC

Montov wrote:
TimeLurker wrote:Additional prediction (I'm pope, so I can do that): Cuegan will know exactly what our new Molpy is and call it by species.
Megan:"Oh neat, it's a hedgehog."

Cueball: "Yeah."

From my PPP1. I think we did pretty good.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Valarya » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:10 pm UTC

Swein wrote:Prickly neat little ONG
Image

Goggalor wrote:I'd like to add my prediction: Megan describes the molpy as 'neat'.

Well done, Goggalor!! :shock: 8-)
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taixzo
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:22 pm UTC

Vytron wrote:Hey xall! Still trapped in the past, distance increasing...

But I got some hats to give! First, akacat! Who asked for a hat loooong time ago! But here it is! Thanks for waiting for it!

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The next one is for taixzo, hope you like it!

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I also updated all my avatars so they carry buffygirl's awesilly hat 8-)

*Fades back into the past*


Thank you! It's really 4!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Wildhound » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:23 pm UTC

I think that the real question here, and the only one that we should care about, is "What's going on back at the sandcastles?"
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby TimeLurker » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:24 pm UTC

We must have more predictions!! Eventually more of them are bound to come true.

Let me see.....I predict that Cueball will drop-kick the little prickly7 down the mountain.....Oh, or, Megan will suggest they skin it to make cooler5 bags. Yeah, that'll do for now.

7Really neat.
5Not like temperature, like the Fonz.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Flotter » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:25 pm UTC

They sure like the word "neat". Neat river, neat tree, neat mountains and now a neat pokeymolp. I wonder what the next neat thing will be.

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Dracomax
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Dracomax » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:27 pm UTC

Flotter wrote:They sure like the word "neat". Neat river, neat tree, neat mountains and now a neat pricklymolp. I wonder what the next neat thing will be.

Whiskey?
“have i gone mad?
im afraid so, but let me tell you something, the best people usualy are.”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:27 pm UTC

I predict they will leave the molpine behind to continue up the mountain. Within 20 Ong's they will encounter a new creature.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

patzer's signature wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:I'm being quoted too much!

he/him/his

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Flotter » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:28 pm UTC

Dracomax wrote:
Flotter wrote:They sure like the word "neat". Neat river, neat tree, neat mountains and now a neat pricklymolp. I wonder what the next neat thing will be.

Whiskey?

Yes, please.

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k.bookbinder
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby k.bookbinder » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:33 pm UTC

Dracomax wrote:
Flotter wrote:They sure like the word "neat". Neat river, neat tree, neat mountains and now a neat pricklymolp. I wonder what the next neat thing will be.

Whiskey?


Yes, please! *holds out glass*
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby TimeLurker » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:40 pm UTC

Dracomax wrote:
Flotter wrote:They sure like the word "neat". Neat river, neat tree, neat mountains and now a neat pricklymolp. I wonder what the next neat thing will be.

Whiskey?

Yes, just what the OTT needs. We need to loosen up around here a little me thinks.
*brings out a single malt scotch to add to the problem supply*
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:41 pm UTC

k.bookbinder wrote:
Dracomax wrote:
Flotter wrote:They sure like the word "neat". Neat river, neat tree, neat mountains and now a neat pricklymolp. I wonder what the next neat thing will be.

Whiskey?


Yes, please! *holds out glass*

Tumbler or nosing and tasting?
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

patzer's signature wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:I'm being quoted too much!

he/him/his

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Dracomax
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Dracomax » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:43 pm UTC

*sigh* Apparently I'm bartender too, now.

Okay, but only CUegan and possibly Blitzgirl get their whiskey "neat"
“have i gone mad?
im afraid so, but let me tell you something, the best people usualy are.”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ZoomanSP » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:47 pm UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:
k.bookbinder wrote:
Dracomax wrote:
Flotter wrote:They sure like the word "neat". Neat river, neat tree, neat mountains and now a neat pricklymolp. I wonder what the next neat thing will be.

Whiskey?


Yes, please! *holds out glass*

Tumbler or nosing and tasting?

Here, have some cake with that:
Spoiler:
Image
Wait on.

Image
Spoiler:
Kieryn wrote:They have a culture involving hat wearing. What kind of a collective would come up with such a thing!?
BlitzGirl wrote:I'll get the razor and finish off Occam while we're at it.
ucim / Megan wrote:"It can do whatever it wants. It's the OTT."


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