Worst Roles Mafia - D3 Who knows whats going on

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wam
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Worst Roles Mafia - D3 Who knows whats going on

Postby wam » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:35 pm UTC

Worst Roles


Standard rules (some changes)
Spoiler:
1. Do not talk about the game outside this thread. Apart from a properly labeled spoiler in the discussion thread.
2. DO NOT TALK ABOUT THE GAME OUTSIDE THIS THREAD. Apart from a properly lablelled spoiler in the discussion thread.
3. Please stay on topic.
4. Don't lurk through the whole game; if you need to drop out, TELL ME. Really bad lurkers risk MODKILL,
5. If you aren't part of the game, please do not post in the thread
6. Once it is nighttime, do not post in the thread
7. If you die, don't say anything for the rest of the game except a simple, "Bah, you got me," which reveals no information.
8. You may not post verbatim or quote from your role PM. Paraphrasing is fine.
9. You may not edit your posts. This is to preempt the possibility of cheating by sending messages to other people and then editing them out.
10. You must play to your current win condition
11. All Pms must be sent to both mods, (wam and uniquescreenname)


Game specific rules
Spoiler:
1. The deadline applies even if the mod is not online to call it.
2. If at any point a player receives a majority of votes, then the day ends, however, you may keep posting till a mod calls it, however, any votes, unvotes or actions submitted after this will not be counted.
3. This is a semi-open setup. You can ask questions to the mod; you may not get an answer though.
4. All votes should be made by posting on a new line, IN BOLD. For example,
VOTE: wam
5. You must post an Unvote before you can make a new vote. For example,
UNVOTE
VOTE: tim
6. If you have questions, either post them IN BOLD in this thread, or PM me.
7. You may only communicate with other players by PM if I have specifically said you can do so.
9. Players cannot target themselves.
10. At the start of each day phase I will reveal the role PM of all players killed since the previous day phase.
11. If votes are tied at a deadline it will be decided by random.org
12.NO cryptography under any circumstances!!


Notes: Very important that everyone reads them!

The roles were all chosen from here http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4736 however some have been altered for balance and to fit in better.

A mass claim is strongly discouraged, all players may ask the mod at any point for a suitable fake claim. If you have a Posting restriction you are forbidden from claiming this, if someone works it out, you may confirm however.

There may or may not be vote altering powers

I may lie to you but everything in bold will be the truth

Remember these are the worst roles so don’t feel bad about your own someone probably has a worse one.


Setup
Spoiler:
9 Players
5 Town
2 Mafia
1 Cult
1 Independant


Players
Spoiler:
1. Madge
2. Djehutynakht
3. Lataro
4. cjquines
5. ConMan
6. StubbsKVM
7. KrO2
8. thdl
9. Arlick


Role Pms are written just waiting for USN to check them. Will go out later tonight or tomorrow.
Last edited by wam on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:45 pm UTC, edited 4 times in total.
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Djehutynakht
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Djehutynakht » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:09 pm UTC

Confirming.

Seeing as roll pms haven't gone out yet, I cannot assert that I am innocent. Or guilty.

I can assert, however, I am here.

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StubbsKVM
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby StubbsKVM » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:15 pm UTC

vote DJ

You're probably going to be scum. Or pretend to be. :wink:
Stubbs - next time I'm scum I think I'll just policy NK you at the first possible opportunity.(Suzaku)

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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby thdl » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:52 pm UTC

I exist. Also, can confirm I just got my role pm.

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wam
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby wam » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:56 pm UTC

Role Pms are out I can't be bothered to wait for confirmations you may begin

9 alive 5 to lynch

Deadline in 7 days
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Djehutynakht » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:12 pm UTC

Removed by Mod Request
Last edited by Djehutynakht on Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:03 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Djehutynakht » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:13 pm UTC

Removed by Mod Permission
Last edited by Djehutynakht on Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:02 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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wam
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby wam » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:18 pm UTC

You have mod permission to remove BOTH posts and start again

ps if anyone has seen them let me know by PM

edit: Please read the OP before posting
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Djehutynakht
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Djehutynakht » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:06 pm UTC

Okay then. So we begin anew. I suppose it won’t take anyone long to figure out my particular caveat. Its really quite a tedious one #obvious

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Arlick
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Arlick » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:26 pm UTC

Why am i always asleep when the confirmation time ends >:( oh well, confirming i got my role pm anyway.
Why not start the day with a
Vote: StubbsKVM
because he smells like dip.

So, we could start by using a questionnaire, or mass-claiming which has this slight problem
wam wrote:A mass claim is strongly discouraged, all players may ask the mod at any point for a suitable fake claim. If you have a Posting restriction you are forbidden from claiming this, if someone works it out, you may confirm however.

Im not sure what kind of questions we'd use for the first option though, any other ideas?
I have some questions, and by that I mean one. Is anyone else afraid of toasters?
Go easy on my spelling, I am slightly dyslexic.

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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby UniqueScreenname » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:34 pm UTC

Mod voice activated
PolakoVoador wrote:Pizza is never a question, pizza is always the answer.
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Djehutynakht » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:01 am UTC

I’d scumhunt right now but I have very little to go on and less of a capability to tell you what I find. Oh woe the oppressed poet #roleproblems

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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Djehutynakht » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:02 am UTC

EBWOP:

What is a "suitable false claim" and how are they used, out of curiousity #boldquestion

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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Madge » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:36 am UTC

Just letting people know I'm here and to please be nice to me.

Looks like DJ has to do #hashtags? Or maybe is pretending to do hashtags to throw us off the real scent?

Anyway, my role could cause me (and by extension town) problems. However, I think if we all play well, my role will be equivalent to VT.

I'm not allowed to claim so I won't say any more on the subject.
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Madge » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:37 am UTC

EBWOP maybe a character number restriction?
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Arlick » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:56 am UTC

Madge wrote:Looks like DJ has to do #h*****gs? Or maybe is pretending to do hashtags to throw us off the real scent?

Both of these are possible, as is
Madge wrote:a character number restriction?

I obfuscated part of that because i have a slight suspicion that some roles may have a trigger based on getting a word quoted or something similar.
Are certain words liable to act as a trigger?
i doubt that will be answered, but it's worth a shot.
Unvote
Can't think of anything that could be used in asking everyone a question as a way to scumhunt. I guess we'll just have to wait until everyone posts something, unless they turn out to have lurker-roles.
I have some questions, and by that I mean one. Is anyone else afraid of toasters?
Go easy on my spelling, I am slightly dyslexic.

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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Djehutynakht » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:00 am UTC

Hashtags and character restrictions are both parts of my role #gettingcloser

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Lataro
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Lataro » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:19 am UTC

More later, phone post now.

If you quote me you are scum and will eternally earn my vote til you die. This is a very serious warning. Do not quote me ever. No forgiveness.

Don't be anti town and violate the above.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Madge » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:34 am UTC

Which of these options will invoke your wrath, so we can work out ways to circumvent the forbiddenness of quoting your posts? (I've quoted my own posts in this example, and DJ's as well)

Option 1:
Spoiler:
Madge wrote:Just letting people know I'm here and to please be nice to me.


Option 2:
Spoiler:
Just letting people know I'm here and to please be nice to me.


Option 3:
Spoiler:
I don't like how Madge said, "Just letting people know I'm here and to please be nice to me."


Option 4:
Spoiler:
"Just letting people know I'm here and to please be nice to me." doesn't seem like something a townie would say.


Option 5:
Spoiler:
If you ask me, Madge saying that we should be nice to her is suspicious.


Option 6:
Spoiler:
Djehutynakht wrote:Just letting people know I'm here and to please be nice to me.


Option 7:
Spoiler:
Madge wrote:What is a "suitable false claim" and how are they used, out of curiousity #boldquestion
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Madge » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:35 am UTC

All of those examples are assuming that I have your role, in case that wasn't clear.
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Djehutynakht » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:14 am UTC

Opportunity
Turn the Bad into the Good
I control my role
#Haiku!


Lataro, you tempt me so badly #theserolesaremaddening

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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby ConMan » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:17 am UTC

I had a beautiful post lined up here, but the internet died at just the wrong time. In any case, the main points were:

1. Madge is trying hard to work out what's happening in this game, which is pro-town, although she warns that her role is, at best, equivalent to vanilla townie.

2. Dj is being a twit, so to speak. I would expect that the worst posting restrictions will go to the people who least want to annoy others, which would include survivors, power town, and scum. I'm leaning towards either of the former, although the lack of any suggestion of a useful power is a concern.

3. Someone else in this thread has posted a warning, and given that he tends to at least lace his false claims with elements of truth I'm happy to accept the warning as-is for now - that said, the warning could be interpreted a few ways, and the vagueness of it is a bit annoying.

4. We should help open up discussion with some questions or something, and since others have declined to do so I will try to offer some:

Q1: Compared to a VT, do you think your abilities are pro- or anti-town in the best case? (So Madge's seems to be neutral leaning anti-town even if her role is a town one).

A1: I think I'm marginally pro-town compared to a VT, but my role will be of maximum benefit from D2 onwards.

Q2: We have a cult. How worried should we be?

A2: Assuming that the game is at least somewhat balanced, the cult has probably been nerfed a bit but I want to nip it in the bud if possible. One likely nerf is that only people who perform a certain action are cult-able, which would place suspicion on the person who gave the aforementioned warning if not for the fact that it seems extremely counter to their interests to warn as such. I seem to remember reading a quite bastardly role somewhere of a cultist who didn't know they were one, and I really hope that's not the nerf being used.
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Madge » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:23 am UTC

Q1: I'm neutral leaning anti-town, like you said. However, I think we're extremely likely to be able to make my role equivalent to VT; as strange things happen, you might even be able to work out what the deal is with my role.

Q2: I'm always terrified of cults, and at the same time kind of ignore them because I don't really know what to do about them. At some point I should ask on the discussion thread for tips on spotting/dealing with cults as it's not an area of strategy I've thought about.
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Djehutynakht » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:29 am UTC

These are all very interesting accusations, but I assure you If I could ramble a lengthy reply, you know I would. #Apoetsprison

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Lataro
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Lataro » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:25 am UTC

It is not clear to me what level of quoting from those you listed will invoke what will happen. All I know for certain is that people quoting me will trigger a very negative thing for everyone. Part of my role is that I can not claim my role or confirm a suspicion of it.

If no one quotes me, I am otherwise VT with no restrictions against me, and am able to post freely.

So, while I don't know and can't say it's only quotes that will trigger it, it would make the most mechanical sense for it to be. That said, caution about referring to things I said would be appreciated so as to not trigger it in some indirect way the mod counts.

So, 5/2/1/1

Worst case scenario, the indy is a SK, we lynch town, sk and mafia both have a kill and hit town, and cult hits town.

1 town, 2 mafia, 2 cult, 1 indy. This is effectively a game over for town on D2. This leads me to believe that either the mafia or the indy does not have a kill. If that is the case, worst case is 2 town, 2 mafia, 2 cult, 1 indy. This is still a terrible situation for town, but is not an effective game over just yet.

I think we need to be very careful with our lynch choices, however, a NL has me worried too much about anti town powers triggered by a NL such as only being able to kill/cult people who vote for one or so on.

I'm going to refrain from answering the questions asked directly, due to concern that answering it could trigger the ability for a power to be used, however, I think my post has move than covered such topics.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Madge » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 am UTC

Thanks for the clarification.

I would STRONGLY advise against a NL, however.
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Djehutynakht » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:46 am UTC

I feel unquotable’s a conundrum for us. A trap for scum to set free at hangman’s noose? Should we lynch immediately, if only for our safety? #DangerousRole #Damnlimits

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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby KrO2 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:44 am UTC

Reporting in.

Question for Lataro: Why should scum have powers activated by votes for NL but not by votes for a player? I mean, if that's the type of nerf involved, I don't see why one is more likely than the other.

I can't help but think ConMan's thing about being more useful in the late game sounds like cult playing for time. (Standard disclaimer about D1.)

My role is...well, in an ordinary game it'd definitely be negative-utility. Like, "request being lynched D1" bad. In this game, where everyone has a bad role, I'm less worried about it. I plan to claim later today and use it as best as I can.

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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Arlick » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:23 am UTC

A1. My role is about the equivalent of a VT role, leaning to-and-fro between anti-town and pro-town. Otherwise i'm in the same boat as KrO2.

A2. My experience with cults is limited, though given the role-source i'd assume something like a Suicide Cult or equally detrimental.

I doubt the indy will cause too much trouble, but i have a habit for being wrong in those matters.

I don't like the idea of a NL, we have to be as careful as possible with these roles. Worst case we lynch someone who got something like the James Bond with an Aching Jaw. I realise i am playing with people whose skill level is WAAAY higher than mine, in which case i'll probably get lynched. I'd rather not just yet, maybe as a D2/3 lynch if we can't find anyone incredibly scummy.
Those odds for a D2 game-over for town look scary, but i doubt it'll be that way. As said, the indy shouldn't be a problem as they'd have to be massively nerfed for this gamemode... right?

At this, i've just got back from the hospital ((all good news, btw)) and am kinda tired. I'll take a look at the odds after a nap or something.
I have some questions, and by that I mean one. Is anyone else afraid of toasters?
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby cjquines » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:25 am UTC

Egosearching.

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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby thdl » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:11 pm UTC

A1: Ummm... no. No lists of likely most powerful townies should be made public. In fact, let's get things started:

Vote: ConMan

A2: Cults are scary, but I find it unlikely that it's overpowered to a significant degree. Also, it's a cult with "bad" roles, which might help.

ConMan wrote:1. Madge is trying hard to work out what's happening in this game, which is pro-town, although she warns that her role is, at best, equivalent to vanilla townie.

2. Dj is being a twit, so to speak. I would expect that the worst posting restrictions will go to the people who least want to annoy others, which would include survivors, power town, and scum. I'm leaning towards either of the former, although the lack of any suggestion of a useful power is a concern.

3. Someone else in this thread has posted a warning, and given that he tends to at least lace his false claims with elements of truth I'm happy to accept the warning as-is for now - that said, the warning could be interpreted a few ways, and the vagueness of it is a bit annoying.

4. We should help open up discussion with some questions or something, and since others have declined to do so I will try to offer some:

Italics mine.

That's an interesting name for Lataro.

ConMan, please say Lataro.
And Lataro, please say ConMan.

I'm betting on a set of post restrictions. Not sure if they'd mean anything. I disagree strongly with point 2 by the way, to the point that it looks deliberately manipulative.

In other news, I searched the first 50 pages of the worst roles thread for quote triggerable roles. There were 2 of them: One dies if they are quoted and the other is forced to stay quiet for a bit and speak in L337. I suspect strongly that Lataro has the second one from his wording. This makes me really want to quote him, but I will refrain. Both those roles, however, were town aligned.

My other opinions are not as strong, I generally have no other major pings.

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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Djehutynakht » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:44 pm UTC

I'm guessing ConMan is refraining from saying "Lataro" to avoid any trace of a possible quote. I call him "unquotey" myself. But I'm no twit #Nottoosuspicious

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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby ConMan » Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:01 am UTC

I was waiting for some confirmation of Madge's tests as to what level of quoting was forbidden - if paraphrasing was enough, then I could easily have set off Lataro's ability (if just saying his name is bad, then the cat's well out of the bag there). I agree that if what Lataro's saying is true, then his ability is quite possibly either the mute, or posting restriction once quoted, or it activates some kind of anti-town ability.

thdl wrote:A1: Ummm... no. No lists of likely most powerful townies should be made public. In fact, let's get things started:

Vote: ConMan

This is "Worst Roles" mafia. Odds are, most players have a role that is hard to play, or actively detrimental to their win condition, or just plain confusing or annoying. I'm not trying to ask who's got the coolest power because the answer is almost certainly no-one (or it's scum, with the most awesomely pro-town power). What I'm trying to work out is whether we have anyone whose power is so incredibly swingy that they need to be taken into account. As it stands, it looks like there are quite a few abilities that are completely neutral unless triggered and a few others that are a bit swingy, and that's probably enough for us to know for now.

More later, hopefully.
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:26 am UTC

Annoying we can deal with, but what if some powers besides scum are detrimental to town? We must protect, but we can’t let them be set off. #Itsabomb!

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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby ConMan » Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:17 am UTC

Djehutynakht wrote:Annoying we can deal with, but what if some powers besides scum are detrimental to town? We must protect, but we can’t let them be set off. #Itsabomb!

Well yeah, I'm sorry if that was poorly worded but I'm assuming that many town powers *are* detrimental to town, at least under fairly-bad-case scenarios*. On that note, having to write in tweets is your [only] post restriction, right? And it's just a restriction, or is there a power associated?

* Whereas in a normal game of Mafia town powers are generally bad for town only in worst-case scenarios.
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:29 am UTC

Ahem: #callingtoattention

Djehutynakht wrote:And my power is that I get to trend! #Sarcasm #DammitTwitter
Last edited by Djehutynakht on Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:40 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Arlick » Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:46 am UTC

Ok so stubbs hasn't made any more posts even though he has been online. I have a suspicion he may have vote-based post restriction, in which case all i can say is "oops". I'm hesitant to think that wam would have implemented something like the "False Messiah" in this, so he may just be forced to active lurk for the rest of the day. Here's hoping i didn't just up and kill him by joke-voting :S

On the subject of detrimental win-conditions/restrictions i'd like to believe that everyone is affected with something like this, though it's probably safe to assume town-powers won't necessarily favour scum and vice versa. They might still be anti-town/scum, or even anti-everything. Probably better to avoid claiming a power-role until D2 at the earliest.

I've decided i'm not gonna do a probability projection yet, it's still too early and not enough content has come up for a reasonable analysis.

I'm curious what would happen if DJ went over the restriction limit.
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Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Lataro » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:40 am UTC

Pretty convinced from posts so far that Alrick is indy AT BEST.

Gonna hold off on a vote to see what they have to say in case it has an effect on them.

Votes a joke vote in a game with roles that are handicapped, posts nothing of any value other than, "we could do this, but the mod says it's a bad idea, someone else think of something to do."

Commenting on something trivial with more non-content about someone else asking questions.

And for me, the last post seals it. Seems to realize the vote may have been a bad idea, in previous post, referred to some familiarity with the source material, leading me to believe they knew what they were doing. Mentions claiming detrimental win conditions in the same scope as detrimental powers. Town is defined as having a unified win condition, the elimination of anti town. Roles can suck as much as they want, but if a win condition is different from a town win condition, then the person isn't town. Assuming wam isn't flat out changing the rules of mafia, a detrimental win condition on a townie can not exist. The fact that Arlick thought to bring this up, makes me think that they have a non-town win condition, hence, Indy at best, and IMO, most likely.

Lets hear it, Arlick.

As for thdl's statement towards me, I will not respond to an order like that, it sounds like it could be linked to a possible power, and I'm not taking that risk. I don't know where you are coming from on that, as I've made clear with other posts what my role involves, and that I will not reveal more about it under modly penalty.
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

Garak: "Are you sure that's the moral?"
Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

User avatar
Djehutynakht
Posts: 1546
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:37 am UTC

Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:13 am UTC

Arlick wrote:I'm curious what would happen if DJ went over the restriction limit.


Gruesome fate belies
Who violates Twitter's rules
Stupid post limits

#Roleconsequences

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StubbsKVM
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:42 am UTC

Re: Worst Roles Mafia

Postby StubbsKVM » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:26 am UTC

I sometimes check games on my phone. I hate trying to post on my phone, so that's definitely a posting restriction.

And since we're all telling each other what not to do:

Be careful about putting someone at L-1.

Other than that. The tweeting power gave me a good laugh.

Looks like most of us have a negative role. This should be fun.

unvote

don't want to kill the tweeter.
Stubbs - next time I'm scum I think I'll just policy NK you at the first possible opportunity.(Suzaku)


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