1190: "Time"

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Gedeon
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Gedeon » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:04 pm UTC

ExclamatiONG!!!

Image
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby b2bomberkrh » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:04 pm UTC

Definitely the map. And remember, Megan is confessing to this in response to Cueball saying he wished he had asked the Beanies to help find a faster way back to their home.

ETA: Papal decree is optional, since I know there's a lot of excitement going on, but here is a picture of Kermit yelping "it's the map, it's the map" when he saw the newpix, and anyone else who would like to share their pet, that would be awesome. Ok, the file extension isn't allowed. Picture coming momentarily.

Here's Kermit:

IMAG1500small.jpg
Kermit and the current pic - "It's the map! It's the map!!!!"
Last edited by b2bomberkrh on Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:21 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mikro2nd » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:07 pm UTC

Gedeon wrote:Image

RETURN THE MAP WHICH YOU HAVE STOLEN FROM ME.
One world, one soul
Time pass, the river rolls

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jjjdavidson » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:10 pm UTC

Gedeon wrote:ExclamatiONG!!!
Spoiler:
Image

She stole the little Beanie girl's turtlemolpy!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Flado » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:14 pm UTC

SinusPi wrote:Prediction: they're going to light a fire to signal their mates. With ROT13->Morse code.

FTFY.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:16 pm UTC

Actually, it looks like an ipad to me. But they are likely out of wifi range and G3/G4 seems a bit sketchy. Don't let anything interesting happen in my absence.

Oh and the earlier flashed noted might not be signaling, but only flashes of reflection off metal objects carried by the beanies (or glass).
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:18 pm UTC

Next Tuesday's "What-If:"

Q: What is the most likely way that the strait of Gibralter could be plugged sometime in the next five thousand years?
-------------------- hundreds of people

A: Nice try.

------

But I'll start it. You've got two main categories: human activity and natural events. For natural events, the straits could be plugged from below (lava flow, caldera uplift, plate shift), above (landslide, meteor strike), or pinched shut (plate movement).

All of these seem very unlikely in the time frame allotted. Except the meteor strike right into the Strait. I don't think it would actually plug the Strait, though.

That leaves human activity.

To create something that can block ocean currents that powerful, either intentionally or accidentally, is not easy. So there would have to be a real good reason to do it. One of the strongest drives for people to use other people's resources is the drive for their status to remain quo.
(See: "Hey, all my pretty beach sand is gone! Sombody better put it back right now!!")
As charlie_grumbles pointed out, damming up the Strait in order to intentionally drop the level of the Med is a hard sell. But damming it up to keep the level where it is now is a much easier one. Except for trade.

Simple (?) solution: The Panama Canal. include in the dam project a series of locks so that trade routes stay open, and water levels can be carefully controlled. While building, you can also put in that underground rail system they've been wanting.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby nsub1 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:28 pm UTC

But they slept close to the town! If the map was that important, wouldn't Hypatia and the Beanies come looking for them? Maybe the Beanies have advanced technology.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jjjdavidson » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:33 pm UTC

ucim wrote:
jjjdavidson wrote: I'm afraid Randall utterly neglected conservation of energy. In traveling from Earth orbit to Mars orbit, the water gains an enormous amount of potential energy in the Sun's gravity well, so it should arrive on Mars as chunks of supercooled ice.
The energy the water gains need not be at the expense of the water's existing thermal energy. If we can imagine portals between the planets, which magically keep their positions aligned despite complex orbital dynamics, those portals can also align the gravitational and kinetic energy differences.

b2bomberkrh wrote:In regards to the portal to Mars, conservation of energy (and for that matter, momentum and angular momentum) can't really work in this case anyway, or else the water would come in with a HUGE (and changing) velocity, and a lot of kinetic energy, due to the difference in the orbital velocities of Mars and Earth. Wormholes/portals/mutant teleporters/Star Trek transporters, all have to magically take care of any silly little conservation laws. (Observe from the first Abrams Star Trek movie what happened when Kirk and Sulu got transported to the Enterprise while plunging towards the surface of Vulcan. They didn't even retain their velocity relative to their surroundings, much less their velocity relative to the Enterprise. The transporters have to null out any relative velocity to work.)

I was making two assumptions: ① Randall's drawing shows the water arriving on Mars straight down, therefore the portal does automatically compensate. ② There aren't any nuclear reactors in the Mariana Trench, so the portal has to be more-or-less self-powering. Unless Megball have a Mr. Fusion in one of those bags, I think ② is a necessity for them. So the difference in potential energy relative to the Sun has to come from the water itself, mitigated by the decreased orbital velocity and decreased PE relative to the local gravity. Oh, and decreased lateral velocity, too; Mars turns at about the same speed as Earth, but is only about half the diameter, so there's some more energy the portal can use.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Fictioneer » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:34 pm UTC

nsub1 wrote:But they slept close to the town! If the map was that important, wouldn't Hypatia and the Beanies come looking for them? Maybe the Beanies have advanced technology.


The Beanies may have other technologies or even other copies of the map, but Megan wouldn't necessarily know that.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:35 pm UTC

mikro2nd wrote:
Gedeon wrote:
Spoiler:
Image

RETURN THE MAP WHICH YOU HAVE STOLEN FROM ME.

That's fantastic!
I immediately pictured the huge head of Rosetta, awash in a cloud of synonyms, rushing after them...

(I'd love to post the pic, but it would take hours to do correctly)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mikrit » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:40 pm UTC

CasCat wrote:
Tatiana wrote:The flashes of light! Of course that is some kind of communication system!

...


Megan and Cueball didn't know that the flashes of light they saw were communication attempts. (In fact, they still don't.) Why would the rest of The Forty? "Ok, look. Some flashes of light on the horizon. Interesting. Well, better finish weaving this basket...."

In order for communication to work, there has to be someone who knows how to receive it and interpret it.

All right then, how about this:

- "Oh, look. Some flashes of light on the horizon. Interesting. Long, long, short. Hey, that's the ancient signal for 'Run for the hills.'!"

Hm, that still doesn't work. It must be:
- "Hey, that's the ancient signal for: 'Run for any hills that are at least 2435 meters above normal sea level'.! (And now it is short, long. That's Cueball's personal digital signature, so we can trust the message.)"
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Valarya » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:40 pm UTC

yappobiscuits wrote:
BlitzGirl wrote:No Time to reflect; it's Time now to RUN. (And to get wedding hairdo did and blitz on my phone.)

Blitz like the wind, BlitzGirl!

Oh BRAVO! yappo does it again. always. Image

SinusPi wrote:Wait wait. Creeped out? Could they have simply not believed a word of what Hypatia said...? And they ran out simply to get the hell away from these mad people..?

This made me go 'huh?!' as well. Creeped out? Not cool, Cueball. Not cool. :?

Gedeon wrote:Image

And then this happens. :shock: "Hurry, hurry! Megan and Cueball need to get to the sandcastle beach! Well I know how to get to the sandcastle beach! CAUSE I'M THE MAP!"
Last edited by Valarya on Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:41 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby charlie_grumbles » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:40 pm UTC

NetWeasel wrote:But damming it up to keep the level where it is now is a much easier one. Except for trade.

Simple (?) solution: The Panama Canal. include in the dam project a series of locks so that trade routes stay open, and water levels can be carefully controlled. While building, you can also put in that underground rail system they've been wanting.

Ah, the hubris of the scientifically inclined. You are fooling with delicate ecosystems here. You have to solve the problem of salinity. Currently fresher water flows in at the surface and saltier water out at depth. If you stop the outflow you kill the sea. Do the math. You could make it work, but I think a lot of the electric power you generate is used to pump the salty water up and out over your new drop. You also, I think, need to solve the problem of marine life migrating in and out. Otherwise you start to lose parts of the ecosystem, which can lead to collapse of other parts.

I think the only reason it would be done is the same reason we continue to burn coal. It is in someone's financial interest to do so and they can ignore the real cost, passing it to others or to future generations. Even ignoring to compute/consider the future costs. Like I said, hubris. Hubris and greed, combined. Dubrovnik won't be happy if they are above water (yay) on a dead sea (boo).

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Tatiana » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:42 pm UTC

You know, it occurs to me that Hypatia took out an existing map and then wrote on it, didn't she? She said "I will build you a map to understanding." Then she got out the book and didn't she make marks on the map? So they must have many copies of such things, for her to deface it like that, right?

Looking back, I can interpret that more easily as speech, with her pointing out the features we saw highlighted. But then what was there for her to build? Seems like "build" is very different from "show".

At any rate, they haven't chased them or tried to stop them leaving, or retrieve the stolen map (which was probably the next one showing the new shoreline), so that also tends to bear out the hypothesis that they have many copies of things. Maybe they have printing presses.

ETCWPD:
Spoiler:
moar catpix 012.JPG

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby yappobiscuits » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:55 pm UTC

Eliram wrote:
Spoiler:
Image
Image

Image Now THIS is why they should've been more rational and stayed behind to learn some Beanish instead of bolting like that! :roll:
Valarya wrote:

Oh BRAVO! yappo does it again. always. Image

Thanks :mrgreen:
Valarya wrote:And then this happens. :shock: "Hurry, hurry! Megan and Cueball need to get to the sandcastle beach! Well I know how to get to the sandcastle beach! CAUSE I'M THE MAP!"

Image I'm the map, I'm the map, I'm the map, I'm the map...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mikrit » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:56 pm UTC

Valarya wrote:
SinusPi wrote:Wait wait. Creeped out? Could they have simply not believed a word of what Hypatia said...? And they ran out simply to get the hell away from these mad people..?

This made me go 'huh?!' as well. Creeped out? Not cool, Cueball. Not cool. :?

I am not a native English speaker. Couldn't they be "creeped out" by the content of Rosetta's information, rather than by Rosetta herself or the way she said it it? That's how I understood it.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby k.bookbinder » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:00 pm UTC

***Blindposting from 1150***

All I can say is :shock: :shock: :shock:

I must reach the present!

Reach the present...
Reach the present...
Reach the present...
Reach the present...
Reach the present...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby EraObserver » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:02 pm UTC

Blindpost.

I leave for just a couple days and suddenly the world is imploding apparently. "RUN"?

... Well, I might be an unfaithful brother, and skipped half of the thread, but I won't understand a thing of that conversation a while ago if I don't do a blitz myself. Actually, this will be my first one...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby odaiwai » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:02 pm UTC

StealONG...
Image

Or maybe klepto-cartONGgraphy
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby svenman » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:03 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:Ah, the hubris of the scientifically inclined. You are fooling with delicate ecosystems here. [...]


Yes, but we don't have to make it actually work. We just need it to be plausible enough to suspend our disbelief. You may not be convinced enough yet, but it works for me. :-)

charlie_grumbles wrote:Too much of "What could possibly go wrong?"


Well, we're looking at a story where something has clearly gone very wrong with the (so far still hypthetical) project, which is just in the process of leading to the next thing to go wrong.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Fictioneer » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:03 pm UTC

Fictioneer wrote:I just realized -- MEGAN HAS THE MAP!! Good going, Megan!


Called it -- except I had no idea there were a bunch of maps!

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Gedeon » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:04 pm UTC

Maybe they will find a shortcut! :D

Speculation: Trans-mediterranean high-speed rail?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:04 pm UTC

charlie_grumbles wrote:
NetWeasel wrote:But damming it up to keep the level where it is now is a much easier one. Except for trade.
Simple (?) solution: The Panama Canal. include in the dam project a series of locks so that trade routes stay open, and water levels can be carefully controlled.

Ah, the hubris of the scientifically inclined. You are fooling with delicate ecosystems here. You have to solve the problem of salinity. Currently fresher water flows in at the surface and saltier water out at depth. If you stop the outflow you kill the sea. Do the math. You could make it work, but I think a lot of the electric power you generate is used to pump the salty water up and out over your new drop. You also, I think, need to solve the problem of marine life migrating in and out. Otherwise you start to lose parts of the ecosystem, which can lead to collapse of other parts.

"Oh, that's stuff for the engineers to figure out -- you're not looking at the Big Picture."
(Please notice the quote marks there...) :roll:

charlie_grumbles wrote:I think the only reason it would be done is the same reason we continue to burn coal. It is in someone's financial interest to do so and they can ignore the real cost, passing it to others or to future generations. Even ignoring to compute/consider the future costs. Like I said, hubris. Hubris and greed, combined. Dubrovnik won't be happy if they are above water (yay) on a dead sea (boo).

Too much of "What could possibly go wrong?"

Wait... are you saying "there's no way this could ever be done" or "this should never be done, but it might be anyway"?

If the former, then what's your theory of how the Strait got blocked?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Nilpferdschaf » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:10 pm UTC

Gedeon wrote:Maybe they will find a shortcut! :D

Speculation: Trans-mediterranean high-speed rail?


Someone calculated earlier that if they don't follow the river and walk back in a straight line they can save 33% of traveling time. They could also safe time by going to Mallorca instead of France which is another few hundred kms closer to where they started.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HES » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:21 pm UTC

Ashaman wrote:It all comes together nicely, as long as you speculate all over the place.

The basis of every cunning plan...

b2bomberkrh wrote:ETA: Papal decree is optional, since I know there's a lot of excitement going on, but here is a picture of Kermit yelping "it's the map, it's the map" when he saw the newpix, and anyone else who would like to share their pet, that would be awesome.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby pelrigg » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:36 pm UTC

Bumping a Firstpost from NP1173. I noticed the shift and went searching. (Yea, Page Popedom.)

melmel wrote:Delurking to say thanks so much to all of you for your dedication as you document Time. I watched as the firstpix rolled in but left for a while. I came back two (heretical) weeks ago, blitzed through the OTT and here I am. I'd offer up a sacrifice of thank you cake to you all but I can't post images yet, so instead take a bite of my heartfelt gratitude. Thanks!


Welcome to the fire circle, melmel.
---------------
General predication; re: black frames:
I think that we'll see them at semi-regular intervals from now on, because (I think) those are "night-time" indicators. In general, we'll follow Cuegan as they RUN to save The 40, and when Randall decides they've traveled an "in-comic" day's worth; Cuegan will have a conversation like, "This looks like a good place to stop", "Yeah" and then 'black frame', followed by them getting ready to molpy-up the next morning. The only reason for us to go through another "Long Night" is if something is going to happen to them during it.

--------------------
ETA
HES wrote:Alas, the hamply has move on to a new home. All I have left is my avatar :(
He's not dead, but I'm moving and can't take him

Sorry to hear you have to give your beloved hamply. Although it's nice to know it's a move for him too (and not the other.)

Multi-mini-edits to fix spelling, and grammar.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby b2bomberkrh » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:37 pm UTC

Megan's last name must be West, or Allen, since she managed to grab multiple maps, and her backpack, and make it out the hanging curtain first, with no one the wiser.

I'm surprised no one has suggested that the reason Rosetta didn't try to get the maps back is that she was happy for them to have them, and probably wishes them well on their quest.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Rule110 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:38 pm UTC

Ah, I was wondering why the map looked more like a tablet. (Was paper making lost, forcing the Beanies to write on wooden planks?) But a pack of maps or a bound atlas might look like that.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:40 pm UTC

Before they look at the maps and give it all away,

Where exactly is "home?" By rereading the sacred texts, we can see that it's between the "pretty neat river" and the one that doesn't always reach the sea, slightly closer to the latter. It's not actually at the shore, but a lot higher.

Anything else?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby moody7277 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:44 pm UTC

NetWeasel wrote:Before they look at the maps and give it all away,

Where exactly is "home?" By rereading the sacred texts, we can see that it's between the "pretty neat river" and the one that doesn't always reach the sea, slightly closer to the latter. It's not actually at the shore, but a lot higher.

Anything else?


Looking at the Mediterranean basin map put up earlier, the "people in the hills" would seem to live in the Felibres hills, so the beach would be just southeast of that.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby yappobiscuits » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:58 pm UTC

HES wrote:Alas, the hamply has move on to a new home. All I have left is my avatar :(
He's not dead, but I'm moving and can't take him

Aww, hamply :( Image
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby pelrigg » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:00 pm UTC

MappONG out the path
Image
ETA
And so the plan falls into place.

Edit 2:
It's been said one reason for The 40 being missed was because they're such a small nomadic tribe. Maybe their tents blend into the surroundings because the material is dusty, or just because they didn't color the original hides.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Ebonite » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:13 pm UTC

But they have several maps.

Prediction: they're going to look at one of the other maps and say, "wait a minute. . .look at this." And discover something unexpected that either "saves the day" or reveals something they didn't know about the beanies and their activities.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby moody7277 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:15 pm UTC

pelrigg wrote:Edit 2:
It's been said one reason for The 40 being missed was because they're such a small nomadic tribe. Maybe their tents blend into the surroundings because the material is dusty, or just because they didn't color the original hides.


Guess it's just my cynical mind, but I thought it was that, when the Beanies asked the people in the hills about anyone else around, they "forgot" to mention Cuegan's tribe due to the hill people's antagonism.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby NetWeasel » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:18 pm UTC

Ebonite wrote:But they have several maps.

Prediction: they're going to look at one of the other maps and say, "wait a minute. . .look at this." And discover something unexpected that either "saves the day" or reveals something they didn't know about the beanies and their activities.

Possibly an escape track that is entirely uphill and fairly steep so they won't get surrounded by the water?

Or architectural drawings of the Beanie's "blow the dam" devices?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Rule110 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:23 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:
pelrigg wrote:Edit 2:
It's been said one reason for The 40 being missed was because they're such a small nomadic tribe. Maybe their tents blend into the surroundings because the material is dusty, or just because they didn't color the original hides.


Guess it's just my cynical mind, but I thought it was that, when the Beanies asked the people in the hills about anyone else around, they "forgot" to mention Cuegan's tribe due to the hill people's antagonism.


My even more cynical mind suggests the possibility that the other 38 don't like Megan and Cueball. Maybe after telling them, "Go down to the beach and build salt castles for a while," they packed up and left. :twisted:

Edit: Good plan to stay on the route they know for descending the shelf. Not every ridge would offer a passable way down.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HES » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:28 pm UTC

Rule110 wrote:Edit: Good plan to stay on the route they know for descending the shelf. Not every ridge would offer a passable way down.

Depends what information the map gives
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby hunjoh » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:28 pm UTC

Here is a video of an open pit mine that was just a little too close to the sea...


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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby svenman » Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:32 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:Guess it's just my cynical mind, but I thought it was that, when the Beanies asked the people in the hills about anyone else around, they "forgot" to mention Cuegan's tribe due to the hill people's antagonism.


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